IAEA board adopts resolution voicing 'increasing concern' about Iran's nuclear work

[Scott]

This thread will not be allowed to deteriorate into an slinging match between posters over the meaning of Islam. Please stay on the topic.

[Exsexyman]

It is entirely possible that Iran is preparing for the future, when oil becomes scarce

No. they are trying to develop an offensive nuclear weapon and anyone who is honest will admit it.

So now they are trying to develop an OFFENSIVE nuclear weapon?

Yep, exactly right and after all the threats they have made about destroying other countries, the world takes then seriously.

Interesting that you selectively quoted a tiny part of my post Ulysses. I thought there were rules on here about that sort of thing. As for your statement that the world takes your Fox News inspired paranoic ramblings seriously well, the world is a big place. I would guess that the majority of the world looks on in horror at the behaviour of the USA in the past few years. Attacking sovereign nations to install undemocratic puppet governments for their own selfish greed. You should read some history, especially about Iran and see who facilitated the overthrow of the last democratic, popular and reforming government in Iran in 1953, and installed the brutal Shah. But of course he opened up the oil and gas fields to American companies which is all that matters. The present government in Iran is a direct result of America's meddling. This upcoming war is all about installing a Western Central Bank, and imposing Western owned debt on the Iranian people. Follow the money. America and its poodles in the West, (sadly i include the UK among them) have plenty of form in this area in recent years, that is undeniable.

[GentlemanJim]

No. they are trying to develop an offensive nuclear weapon and anyone who is honest will admit it.

So now they are trying to develop an OFFENSIVE nuclear weapon?

Yep, exactly right and after all the threats they have made about destroying other countries, the world takes then seriously.

Interesting that you selectively quoted a tiny part of my post Ulysses. I thought there were rules on here about that sort of thing. As for your statement that the world takes your Fox News inspired paranoic ramblings seriously well, the world is a big place. I would guess that the majority of the world looks on in horror at the behaviour of the USA in the past few years. Attacking sovereign nations to install undemocratic puppet governments for their own selfish greed. You should read some history, especially about Iran and see who facilitated the overthrow of the last democratic, popular and reforming government in Iran in 1953, and installed the brutal Shah. But of course he opened up the oil and gas fields to American companies which is all that matters. The present government in Iran is a direct result of America's meddling. This upcoming war is all about installing a Western Central Bank, and imposing Western owned debt on the Iranian people. Follow the money. America and its poodles in the West, (sadly i include the UK among them) have plenty of form in this area in recent years, that is undeniable.

Exsexyman

Check !! Not many moves left to mate

Edited December 9, 2011 by GentlemanJim

[maidu]

If a person were in favor of lessening population, the nuclear war might not be all bad.

This planet is finite. People are everywhere habitable and many places which aren't habitable, places which simply don't have resources to support human populations.

Some places, like HK and Java have incredibly high population densities, and all the trash, toxic releases, and habitat destruction that go hand in hand with that.

It's just physically impossible for one species to multiply unchecked forever in a finite space. There are several ways in which human overpopulation can get trimmed. Nuclear war is one way.

For a microcosmic comparison, read up on the history of Easter Island.

[GentlemanJim]

If a person were in favor of lessening population, the nuclear war might not be all bad.

This planet is finite. People are everywhere habitable and many places which aren't habitable, places which simply don't have resources to support human populations.

Some places, like HK and Java have incredibly high population densities, and all the trash, toxic releases, and habitat destruction that go hand in hand with that.

It's just physically impossible for one species to multiply unchecked forever in a finite space. There are several ways in which human overpopulation can get trimmed. Nuclear war is one way.

For a microcosmic comparison, read up on the history of Easter Island.

So lets just go cut all the trees down in Iran, it will do a lot less damage than 500 nukes. Yes it would trim the population but in 10 years all the kids that are born will be sporting three legs, two heads and four arms. I think there will be a massive culling of the population but it will occur the same way as it does in the animal kingdom, namely disease. We are due an epidemic to wipe out a billion or two.

[Ulysses G.]

You should read some history, especially about Iran and see who facilitated the overthrow of the last democratic, popular and reforming government

Already have. Maybe you should follow your own advice. Mossadegh had to cheat to get elected, so not so democratic, popular or reforming as some folks like to pretend.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[GentlemanJim]

You should read some history, especially about Iran and see who facilitated the overthrow of the last democratic, popular and reforming government

Already have. Maybe you should follow your own advice. Mossadegh had to cheat to get elected, so not so democratic, popular or reforming as some folks like to pretend.

Bit like Bush then.

[Scott]

Maybe some posters should stop baiting; and some should stop flaming.

If you are finished discussing the issue in the OP, it is permissible to stop posting.

[koheesti]

Back to the topic of IAEA board adopts resolution voicing 'increasing concern' about Iran's nuclear work...

Throughout history has a resolution by any international body voicing concern over something ever mattered? Has it ever changed anything? What is the reason behind even having such a resolution? So bureaucrats can get together at the expense of their country's taxpayers and feel important without having to actually DO anything?

Edited December 9, 2011 by koheesti

[Exsexyman]

You should read some history, especially about Iran and see who facilitated the overthrow of the last democratic, popular and reforming government

Already have. Maybe you should follow your own advice. Mossadegh had to cheat to get elected, so not so democratic, popular or reforming as some folks like to pretend.

Positively my last word on this thread. The present government in Iran and the obvious antagonism between them and the USA can be traced back to The CIA facilitating the overthrow of Mossedegh and installing the brutal Shah. Its called blowback, It is important when reading history to do so with no pre conceived ideas and with an open mind. That is what i try to do. How about you?

[Steely Dan]

@GentlemanJim

I'm sure there are a few Counties out there run by the mentally ill, but in light of Scott's timely reminder I will confine my observations to Iran and specifically in the context of them not being a safe pair of hands when it comes to being potential owners of a nuclear bomb. I would also observe, leaving Iran's threats to Israel aside for a moment, that Iran having nuclear weapons would lead to an arms race with the likes of Saudi Arabia and they have leaders as mentally ill as Iran do. Perhaps the Saudi's are also running out of oil

As for WW3, denial and appeasement of lunatics is more likely to result in such an event, not make it less likely.

[GentlemanJim]

@GentlemanJim

I'm sure there are a few Counties out there run by the mentally ill, but in light of Scott's timely reminder I will confine my observations to Iran and specifically in the context of them not being a safe pair of hands when it comes to being potential owners of a nuclear bomb. I would also observe, leaving Iran's threats to Israel aside for a moment, that Iran having nuclear weapons would lead to an arms race with the likes of Saudi Arabia and they have leaders as mentally ill as Iran do. Perhaps the Saudi's are also running out of oil

As for WW3, denial and appeasement of lunatics is more likely to result in such an event, not make it less likely.

But what threats are you talking about from Iran to Israel? If you are talking of the urban myth that Amadinejad said "Israel must be wiped off the face of the map", it is just that, ... urban myth. The exact translation was that 'the Israeli regime must collapse'. That is a long long way from saying the state of Israel must be destroyed. Somebody was very very naughty and getting up to no good! We are calling for regime change in Iran all the time, so what is the difference? I do not understand the context of your comment regarding the Saudis may be running out of oil.

[Jingthing]

But what threats are you talking about from Iran to Israel? If you are talking of the urban myth that Amadinejad said "Israel must be wiped off the face of the map", it is just that, ... urban myth. The exact translation was that 'the Israeli regime must collapse'. That is a long long way from saying the state of Israel must be destroyed. Somebody was very very naughty and getting up to no good! We are calling for regime change in Iran all the time, so what is the difference? I do not understand the context of your comment regarding the Saudis may be running out of oil.

One famous translation, maybe.

Scores of them over the years? Not likely.

The man organizes conferences to promote holocaust denial. Do you get what that means? He is the most powerful antisemitic leader in the world since Hitler. There, I said it, and it is the truth.

http://www.adl.org/main_International_Affairs/ahmadinejad_words.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_1

The uniform shout of the Iranian nation is forever 'Death to Israel'

October 10, 2009

"I warn you to abandon the filthy Zionist entity, which has reached the end of the line. It has lost its reason to be and will sooner or later fall. The ones who still support the criminal Zionists should know that the occupiers' days are numbered. … Accept that the life of Zionists will sooner or later come to an end."

January 30, 2008

Israel is a Jewish state, the homeland of the Jewish people. Its population is about 80 percent Jewish and 20 percent Arab. Of those 80 percent Jewish Israelis, what percentage do you reckon identify as Zionists? I don't know exactly but I am sure it is the vast majority, as Zionism represents a nation state homeland for the Jewish people. And you wonder why Jews hear an existential threat from Iran?

Edited December 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[GentlemanJim]

But what threats are you talking about from Iran to Israel? If you are talking of the urban myth that Amadinejad said "Israel must be wiped off the face of the map", it is just that, ... urban myth. The exact translation was that 'the Israeli regime must collapse'. That is a long long way from saying the state of Israel must be destroyed. Somebody was very very naughty and getting up to no good! We are calling for regime change in Iran all the time, so what is the difference? I do not understand the context of your comment regarding the Saudis may be running out of oil.

One famous translation, maybe.

Scores of them over the years? Not likely.

The man organizes conferences to promote holocaust denial. Do you get what that means? He is the most powerful antisemitic leader in the world since Hitler. There, I said it, and it is the truth.

http://www.adl.org/m...ions=sHeading_1

The uniform shout of the Iranian nation is forever 'Death to Israel'

October 10, 2009

"I warn you to abandon the filthy Zionist entity, which has reached the end of the line. It has lost its reason to be and will sooner or later fall. The ones who still support the criminal Zionists should know that the occupiers' days are numbered. … Accept that the life of Zionists will sooner or later come to an end."

January 30, 2008

Israel is a Jewish state, the homeland of the Jewish people. Its population is about 80 percent Jewish and 20 percent Arab. Of those 80 percent Jewish Israelis, what percentage do you reckon identify as Zionists? I don't know exactly but I am sure it is the vast majority, as Zionism represents a nation state homeland for the Jewish people. And you wonder why Jews hear an existential threat from Iran?

The quote above concerning the Zionists should be from Farsi which quite clearly states that they are calling for the end and collapse of the zionist regime. NOT the state or its people. You call for regime change in Iran all the time, whats different? It is NOT calling for the eradication of the state of Israel or its people.

The stuff you mention regarding being a Holocaust denier is more urban bulls*t myth. you know it and it has been answered on another thread. he never said it, nor did he organise a conference on Holocaust denial. You are utterly misinformed and a sponge for Government propoganda. No wonder it is easy to take a nation to war with the resulting massive loss in human life with a population that is in part represented by people as gullible as you.

[Jingthing]

Someone is either feigning ignorance out of you figure it out, or is badly misinformed:

Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, stirred outrage in the West last year when he stated on several occasions that the Holocaust, in which 6 million Jews perished at the hands of the Nazis, was either greatly exaggerated or an outright myth. He also called more than once for Israel to be wiped off the map.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-12-06/news/17325220_1_nuclear-program-anti-semitism-holocaust

Also your suggestion that Iran (and much of the middle east) is only driving for regime change is a total falsehood. So do you think a change of prime ministers would satisfy them? Come on now, it is crystal clear, they want the Jews out of Israel. Why sugar coat the reality. For people who agree with that, go ahead, but don't play games to try to obfuscate the genocidal implications of that position.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[GentlemanJim]

Someone is either feigning ignorance out of you figure it out, or is badly misinformed:

Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, stirred outrage in the West last year when he stated on several occasions that the Holocaust, in which 6 million Jews perished at the hands of the Nazis, was either greatly exaggerated or an outright myth. He also called more than once for Israel to be wiped off the map.

http://articles.sfga...itism-holocaust

Also your suggestion that Iran (and much of the middle east) is only driving for regime change is a total falsehood. So do you think a change of prime ministers would satisfy them? Come on now, it is crystal clear, they want the Jews out of Israel. Why sugar coat the reality. For people who agree with that, go ahead, but don't play games to try to obfuscate the genocidal implications of that position.

Boy are you on a roll, are you drinking??

You are 100% aware that what you quote above is a fabrication, I know that, you are clever, you just refuse to publicly acknowledge it. Nobody including Iran wants the Jews out of Israel. Amadinejad is part Jewish. They (and most of the world) want the lying, cheating sinister corrupt leadership out. With peace the citizens of Israel and the other nations could just crack on. Don't start talking of genocidal implications with what is going on with the Israeli administration.

[Jingthing]

That's what you resort to, accusations of drunkenness to the common sense conclusion that Amadinejad is a antisemite?

I don't care if Amadinejad has some Jews in his background or not. It is irrelevant. If you are arguing that makes it impossible for him to be an antisemite, that is just totally ignorant. You bring that up as if it proves something about what he has done in office, and it proves nothing of the kind. It's a nothing, just a curiosity.

YES, I believe the info in the link from sfgate.com and you can find thousands other like it. Why shouldn't I? You can find hundreds of quotes with virulent antisemitism from that man. Are we going to argue over the translations of each one? Do you think rational people can believe that many hundreds of them have ALL been falsely translated? What are you saying, it's all a big conspiracy to falsely translate what the man has been saying for many years now? Fine. Rational people won't buy it, but believe (or try to sell) what you want.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html

You know how absurd this is, trying to argue Amadinejad is not an antisemite is as ridiculous as trying to argue that Netanyahu is not a Zionist. I suggest, give it up. It is an unwinnable argument.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

More on this topic. This isn't really an issue of debate among informed people. You can argue a lot of things about all the issues regarding Iran, but arguing that Ahmadinejad isn't the world's leading anti-semite is a non starter. And yes, holocaust denial is anti-semitism and in my view making apologies for holocaust deniers is as well.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: in the words of the Holocaust denier

Despite Jewish origins, Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is the world's foremost anti-Semite

"However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews' massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists tear their larynxes and scream against the person as much as they can."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6257613/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-in-the-words-of-the-Holocaust-denier.html

And yes of course, it is the very clear the goal of Iran is to kick out the Jews of Israel, whatever that takes.

The approach of the Iranian regime towards Israel, the Zionist state, is unambiguous: Tehran rejects its right to exist and calls for its Jewish inhabitants to return to their countries of origin.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/51/4709.htm Edited December 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: in the words of the Holocaust denier

Despite Jewish origins, Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is the world's foremost anti-Semite

"However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews' massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists tear their larynxes and scream against the person as much as they can."

Hitler and Russia's Zhironovsky were/are part Jewish too.

[Ulysses G.]

Nobody including Iran wants the Jews out of Israel.

Huh? This seems to be be "If you tell a big enought lie" defense. The many calls to push the Jews into the sea by Arab governments is a call for another holocaust.

[Steely Dan]

Nobody including Iran wants the Jews out of Israel.

Huh? This seems to be be "If you tell a big enought lie" defense. The many calls to push the Jews into the sea by Arab governments is a call for another holocaust.

Actually you can hear it explicitly stated by Islamic radical sympathizers on campuses in the U.S (The same ones Ahmadinejad took time out to give a speech to before the last U.N conference). They don't want the Jews out of Israel they would rather they were all there so they could be wiped out in one place saving the bother of tracking them down elsewhere. Iran has armed Hezbollah to the teeth with missiles and their leader uses the same rhetoric as Irans. Gentleman Jim is arguing the utterly absurd and relying on strident categorical statements to disguise the travesty of truth in his words.

[Scott]

Let's stay on the topic of the nuclear threat to prevent the thread going far, far off-topic.

If Iran, and I stress If , Iran developed a nuclear weapon, could they reasonably use it without killing a huge number of Muslims? Would they dare to use it anywhere near Jerusalem, with it's sacred sites? Would the Palestinians and neighboring Arabs not suffer significantly from any action?

Wouldn't such an action bring a swifter action from Arab neighbors than from the 'infidel' West?

[Ulysses G.]

Islamic radicals have made it very plain that they have no problem killing their fellow Muslims in large numbers. It is only a big deal if someone else does it.

The Iranian leadership are looking to bring forth the 12th Mahdi, chaos and the end of the world and a nuke would do nothing to hurt their cause.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Credo]

Would they be willing to damage the holy mosque?

[Ulysses G.]

Who knows, but Radical Muslims have a history of destroying and desecrating religious sights of other religions and they are very willing to kill other Muslims.

[maidu]

Who knows, but Radical Muslims have a history of destroying and desecrating religious sights of other religions and they are very willing to kill other Muslims.

So true. Although they talk a lot about sacred this and that, when they want to destroy something, they do. Nothing is off limits. Innocents in market, or school girls burning. Saudi Arabia, a few years ago, Muslim nutheads kept firemen from accessing burning schoolgirls, because the militants didn't want the men to get too close to unwed females, hence, all the trapped girls died behind a locked door, with firemen just inches away. Muslims have bombed mosques when it's convenient for them to do so, particularly if some Islamist baddies are holed up in a mosque and other Islamists want them out.

[Credo]

I can understand the baddies doing a lot of things, but I don't think the Iranian gov't would destroy the al-Aqsa Mosque. I think the rest of the Muslim world would be quite upset. Politically, this would be a move that might backfire. Wouldn't they likely end with a major Muslim-on-Muslim war rather than a war with the infidels?

[Steely Dan]

Would they be willing to damage the holy mosque?

I don't want to stray too far off topic, but the Al-Aqsa mosque is a victory monument built on the site of the original Jewish temple, such activity is not unknown with sites of former churches as per the recent attempt to build a mosque taller than the church of the nativity right next to said church. Returning to Al-Aqsa I could post a film showing Muslims directly behind the Al-Aqsa mosque praying whilst facing Mecca, with their backs to the Mosque. I suspect 'collateral' damage is how life and even temples would be viewed in the Islamist mindset, which is alien to western liberal logic.

[Pedzie]

Islamic radicals have made it very plain that they have no problem killing their fellow Muslims in large numbers. It is only a big deal if someone else does it.

The Iranian leadership are looking to bring forth the 12th Mahdi, chaos and the end of the world and a nuke would do nothing to hurt their cause.

Utter bull Ulysses...

Iran with a proud 3000 year old history willing to wipe itself out for the sake of hitting Israel once?

[chuckd]

Islamic radicals have made it very plain that they have no problem killing their fellow Muslims in large numbers. It is only a big deal if someone else does it.

The Iranian leadership are looking to bring forth the 12th Mahdi, chaos and the end of the world and a nuke would do nothing to hurt their cause.

Utter bull Ulysses...

Iran with a proud 3000 year old history willing to wipe itself out for the sake of hitting Israel once?

The Persian Empire wouldn't do such a thing...but the Islamic Republic of Iran with a proud 31 year history doesn't have a lot to lose, historically speaking of course.