Solar Water Heater

[jaideeguy]

I sent an inquiry off to SUNLABOB shortly after this thread was started and haven’t heard back from them yet either. Checked out their website which seems legit and have talked this up to a few friends in CM that are interested if we can get some info [prices, specs details etc]. Meanwhile we are checking out more direct connections with China and Maylasia which may reply. Keep me posted and I will do the same via this forum or p m me. Someone could make some money here, but I’ll just settle for a fair price and good product.

[mobile69]

I sent an inquiry off to SUNLABOB shortly after this thread was started and haven’t heard back from them yet either. Checked out their website which seems legit and have talked this up to a few friends in CM that are interested if we can get some info [prices, specs details etc]. Meanwhile we are checking out more direct connections with China and Maylasia which may reply. Keep me posted and I will do the same via this forum or p m me. Someone could make some money here, but I’ll just settle for a fair price and good product.

Had a few very prompt replies to my enquiries, but no word since 24th. Possibly Andy is upcountry on a project.

[Rinrada]

From the Valleys a couple of year ago...bit of Info... ...it works but is it allowed in LOS

Interesting question. Also interesting that they seem to ignore electric vehicles in the western countries which also pay no road fuel tax (unless it is done in some different way) and yet they are far more common than veggie oil vehicles.

Here in Thailand there is a general governmental support for renewable energy and in any case I do not think this sort of thing is in their mind as I have not heard of anyone trying it here yet. Anyone heard of anything here in Thailand along these lines?

Re the solar heaters, I have still not heard back from Sunlabob. I am working on several potential environmental development projects for a non profit organization and may need at some time a very large quantity of the best and most economical system of this type and so will be soon looking into this more seriously. I am most happy to share what I learn and even set something up to make this more easily and reasonably available here in CM.

I am just now waiting on information from a friend in BKK who recently researched many of the companies in China manufacturing these kinds of solar hot water heaters.

There is a place which looks a bit experimential situated on the left hand side on The San Kampaeng road just after the college, near Mae-on and before the new Highlands Golf Club

This is one place that I mentioned some time ago and might be worth a look.

They have quite a bit of gear set up on site (by the main road)and as said........Also hear that the new golf club is finished so could be a bit more business on the way........????..solar golf clubs...??

[mobile69]

Paid a visit to the place out at Mae On today. It's run by EGAT. Prices are pretty steep. 160litre system, 47500bt, 320lt system 84,000 baht!! Installation 6000bt extra. Copper pipes 375bt per metre. So much for trying to encourage renewable energy here.

The water passes through pipes encased in aluminium slats, painted black, all under a glass cover. The only plus point was they can repair them here, as they're made at the Mae On factory. The compound is 1km past the turnoff for the cliff climbing.

http://www.egat.co.th/rdo/energy/web-heater/index_sh.htm

Edited February 1, 2006 by mobile69

[mobile69]

Anyone interested in copper pipes for hot water - they have them at the large Home Mart on NE corner of superhighway, on the left side as you drive from Chiang Rai road to Mae Jo Rd. 1/2" @ 500bt per metre including fitting. Also have 5/8" @ 600bt, & 3/4" @ 700bt.

All I need now is the solar water heater. Still no reply from Sunlabob....

[seeker108]

Same here. still no reply from Sunlabob.

[jaideeguy]

Me too, i'm still waiting for reply and even tried to call their number with no success. who-ever succeds in making contact should be cautious as we may be dealing with a 'fly by night' operation. judging from the response to this topic, there are quite a few others of us [up north] looking for the same item..... a reasonably priced, efficient, reliable solar water heater and we all know a little about the realities of the technology and know that it can be produced and instaled at a reasonable price, not the rip-off prices that the few comercial outlets in CM that mostly deal with overpriced old technology units and naive buyers that don't know the score. if nothing comes of this effort, i'll build my own unit as i once did for small bhatt and will share the simple technique and principals of solar water heating with this forum.

also bare in mind that we are living close to the equator [19degrees in CM] and don't really need super-efficiency that they need in the extreme latitudes.

but, i'm too old to be climbing up on the roof for instalation and can afford to hire someone to do the grunt work.

let's all stay in touch thru this forum and maybe somewone will come thru with a ready made unit at a fair price, instalation and guarantee......

keep on searching!!!!

[sabaijai]

Me too, i'm still waiting for reply and even tried to call their number with no success. who-ever succeds in making contact should be cautious as we may be dealing with a 'fly by night' operation. judging from the response to this topic, there are quite a few others of us [up north] looking for the same item..... a reasonably priced, efficient, reliable solar water heater and we all know a little about the realities of the technology and know that it can be produced and instaled at a reasonable price, not the rip-off prices that the few comercial outlets in CM that mostly deal with overpriced old technology units and naive buyers that don't know the score. if nothing comes of this effort, i'll build my own unit as i once did for small bhatt and will share the simple technique and principals of solar water heating with this forum.

also bare in mind that we are living close to the equator [19degrees in CM] and don't really need super-efficiency that they need in the extreme latitudes.

but, i'm too old to be climbing up on the roof for instalation and can afford to hire someone to do the grunt work.

let's all stay in touch thru this forum and maybe somewone will come thru with a ready made unit at a fair price, instalation and guarantee......

keep on searching!!!!

In Laos I've seen the Chinese glass-tube solar water heaters installed onto their own racks or scaffolding, rather than on the roof. Looks relatively simple, though like you I'd rather someone else do the work (in my case simply because I'm just not mechanically inclined).

I've only dealt with Andy once, a few years ago, when buying a solar battery panel. The transaction went very well, he had it delivered to Luang Prabang, where I picked it up and brought it back to Chiang Mai by air. I have a feeling it's a one-man operation, and he may be overbooked. Still he should at least be answering email in a timely manner.

[mobile69]

In Laos I've seen the Chinese glass-tube solar water heaters installed onto their own racks or scaffolding, rather than on the roof. Looks relatively simple, though like you I'd rather someone else do the work (in my case simply because I'm just not mechanically inclined).

I've only dealt with Andy once, a few years ago, when buying a solar battery panel. The transaction went very well, he had it delivered to Luang Prabang, where I picked it up and brought it back to Chiang Mai by air. I have a feeling it's a one-man operation, and he may be overbooked. Still he should at least be answering email in a timely manner.

He was until just over a week ago. In fact, within an hour sometimes. Possibly headed to the hills on some village project? Who knows, hopefully will get in touch.

[jaideeguy]

For those interested in the 'sunlabob' units, i finally got a reply from my 2 or 3 inquiries sent a month ago. it is from a bkk company and as you can see the prices are quite a bit higher than estimated prices quoted earlier on this topic, but still less than local prices.

would appreciate any comments and if there are others interested, let's get together on a group order for discount. pm me if you are interested....

the following is what i received........

Dear Jack,

We are the Sunlabob dependence in Thailand. We got your enquiry referring solar heaters from Andy. Especially for this purpose we recommend the easy to install vacuum tube collectors with insulated storage tank in three different sizes as follows:

160 l Tank for up to 4 Person = 460 USD

200 l Tank for up to 6 Person = 540 USD

240 l Tank for up to 8 Person = 580 USD

Transportation would be about 700 THB per collector to Chiang Mai area.

For an order of 10 collectors and more, the price can be reduced by 10 %. Transportation costs are more economic for several units together.

Referring to your questions as follows:

1] weights of your various units **** 20 – 25 kg empty

2] can they be connected to water main line, or to water pump?? ***** yes, for the intake. Installed on the roof, no further pump is required.

3] is there a pressure relief valve to protect the unit? **** yes

4] our ground water [well] is quite hard and we do get a mineral [calcium?] build up...will that be a problem. **** yes, in the tank sometime, depending on the pH. It would be advisable to reduce calcium before intake.

5] and most importantly, price of unit [delivered to Chiang Mai] and cost of instalation?? **** The prices above are without installation. Installation can be done by our Lao Team. It would be economically, if several units would be installed almost the same time – reducing travel costs

If you would like to see the collector before buying, you could do so in Bangkok.

I hope, this offer attracts you.

Best regards

Magnus

ENVIMA (Thailand) Co., Ltd.

1023 TPS Building, 4th Floor

Pattanakarn Road, Suan Luang

Bangkok 10250

Tel: +66 2 717 8114

Fax: +66 2 717 8115

Mobile: +66 1 920 9708

http://www.envima.com and http://www.ggre-sea.com

Any agreements or information submitted by ENVIMA Co. Ltd. via e-mail are only binding if confirmed in writing

[sabaijai]

For those interested in the 'sunlabob' units, i finally got a reply from my 2 or 3 inquiries sent a month ago. it is from a bkk company and as you can see the prices are quite a bit higher than estimated prices quoted earlier on this topic, but still less than local prices.

would appreciate any comments and if there are others interested, let's get together on a group order for discount. pm me if you are interested....

the following is what i received........

Dear Jack,

We are the Sunlabob dependence in Thailand. We got your enquiry referring solar heaters from Andy. Especially for this purpose we recommend the easy to install vacuum tube collectors with insulated storage tank in three different sizes as follows:

160 l Tank for up to 4 Person = 460 USD

200 l Tank for up to 6 Person = 540 USD

240 l Tank for up to 8 Person = 580 USD

Transportation would be about 700 THB per collector to Chiang Mai area.

For an order of 10 collectors and more, the price can be reduced by 10 %. Transportation costs are more economic for several units together.

Referring to your questions as follows:

1] weights of your various units **** 20 – 25 kg empty

2] can they be connected to water main line, or to water pump?? ***** yes, for the intake. Installed on the roof, no further pump is required.

3] is there a pressure relief valve to protect the unit? **** yes

4] our ground water [well] is quite hard and we do get a mineral [calcium?] build up...will that be a problem. **** yes, in the tank sometime, depending on the pH. It would be advisable to reduce calcium before intake.

5] and most importantly, price of unit [delivered to Chiang Mai] and cost of instalation?? **** The prices above are without installation. Installation can be done by our Lao Team. It would be economically, if several units would be installed almost the same time – reducing travel costs

If you would like to see the collector before buying, you could do so in Bangkok.

I hope, this offer attracts you.

Best regards

Magnus

ENVIMA (Thailand) Co., Ltd.

1023 TPS Building, 4th Floor

Pattanakarn Road, Suan Luang

Bangkok 10250

Tel: +66 2 717 8114

Fax: +66 2 717 8115

Mobile: +66 1 920 9708

http://www.envima.com and http://www.ggre-sea.com

Any agreements or information submitted by ENVIMA Co. Ltd. via e-mail are only binding if confirmed in writing

Interesting that a Lao team does the installation. This lends more weight to my guess that you might be able to purchase these units in Laos more cheaply. On the other hand it may be worth paying a bit more assuming you'll get warranty service here.

[tango]

Solar Heating Buffs

Here are a few interesting sites with lots of data on how to site a solar system yourself wherever you are in the world, including Chiangmai.

BTW, because Chiangmai has a latitude of 18.47o north, solar collectors must face south at an 18.47o angle .

See the following to confirm or to do your own calculations:

1. Deciding the Direction and Angle of Installation:

http://www.apricus-solar.com/html/solar_co...tion_basics.htm

2. NASA Surface meteorology and Solar Energy - Available Tables;

At Latitude 18.47 and Longitude 98.59, from this site:

http://eosweb.larc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/sse/gr...b&submit=Submit

The above link gives you a myriad of data, including:

Parameters for Sizing and Pointing of Solar Panels and for Solar Thermal Applications

Monthly Averaged Insolation Incident On A Horizontal Surface (kWh/m2/day)

Minimum And Maximum Difference From Monthly Averaged Insolation (%)

Monthly Averaged Hourly Solar Angles Relative to the Horizon (degrees) [great list]

Cloud Information

Parameters for Tilted Solar Panels

3. When determining what size collector you need, you must consider two key factors: insolation level and energy requirements, including determining how many solar tubes you need:

http://www.apricus-solar.com/html/solar_collector_size.htm

4. This site has an online working color-coded schematic explaining how solar panels / heaters work:

http://www.powermat.com/pools/

It would be interseting to see whether these solar company technicians install the panels at the appropriate angle for Chiangmai, or if they simply guestimate. With the above data at your fingertips, you will know.

[bTW, have no idea if 'insolation' is a uniquely American term or one to do with meteorology.]

Cheers, Tango

[Johpa]

Along the northern moat there use to be several surplus stores that sold large used plastic containers. Try looking at Kuntiraphans or his neighbors. Wash out containers and be careful as they are used to transport industrial chemicals. Then every morning fill up container with tap water and place it in unshaded area with the longest chance of direct sunlight. When you come home from work pour now warm water into ong naam or kalaman and enjoy warm Thai style shower in winter months. This is what I did during the two years after I got married before we had electricty in the village. Cost is maybe 200 baat. The other 9 1/2 months of the year, why would you need hot water in Thailand?

If you really must, then you can easily have the local plumber build a line of pipe, any pipe will do in a tropical climate like Chiang Mai, against a black background covered by glass on your roof or a nearby edifice and voila, a solar powered water heater. Add some sort of pump action and away you go. If I remember right you can hook up pipe system to a storage container and convection will circulate warmest water into top of container forcing coolest water back into pipes thereby allowing storage of larger amounts of warm water.

Thai plumbing is quite simple and it is easy to patch into or add onto most systems. PVC pipe is just so easy to work with: a saw, some glue, and some fittings and remember that doggy doo doo runs downhill and best at about 1/4 inch to the foot in downhill grade for drainage.

[chownah]

Perhaps the best angle to install a hot water solar collector is to determine which months require the most heat....for me it is clearly nov, dec, and jan since these are the coldest ones in the north so not only is the ground water the coldest and requires the most energy to heat it up but also the bathroom is cold so I want the shower water to be hotter....the rest of the months are much less critical. I think I would tilt my panel to optimize performance for those months. Maybe that's what the link says too...I haven't had time to read it all.

[SamSipEt]

Popped into the previously mentioned Sunpower Asia the other day and had a chat with a pleasant gent who seemed to be knowledgeable on all aspects of solar heating. He quoted 63,000 baht for the entire system (less a current 10% discount) including installation and three years maintenance / check ups which is more expensive than other posts in this thread. All components are imported and you would get a panel 1.9 square meters and a 120 litre tank so this system is a bit on the small side but they have larger. The booster electric heater was guaranteed for a year while the rest of the system was guaranteed for 5 years. He said that they would always prefer to do a site visit to determine the best location for the system and if possible would like some input at the build stage to get the right angle of the panel.

Did anyone get any further with Sunlabob and what were your costs / experiences?

[mobile69]

I gave up on the sunlabob heaters. they were reasonably cheap, but the heaters would have been supplied from a different company in bkk, with a crew from laos doing the installation. they also wanted to build a horizontal platform on the roof on to which they would put their stand holding the heater. this would be similar to the pic on the sunlabob website. Didn't fancy looking up at that everytime I came home. Ended up with a Solason system, from bkk (imported from china). 55,000bt for two 150litre heaters. installation 6000bt, & 300bt per metre for the hot water pipe - flexible plastic with brass connectors. You get a control box which monitors water level & temperature in tank & alllows you to control cold water input. water plenty hot even on these cloudy days.

[jomama]

Disclaimer:

My wife represents a company importing solar hot water heating units, so I have a vested interest, but from what I've seen while accompanying her, it seems a good product. After reading this thread I contacted the importer for his side of the story:

Units are imported from Israel where they have been developed and manufactured for the past 47 years.

The design uses flat plate collectors with tanks located under the roof of the house or elsewhere inside the house (this makes them esthetically more pleasing than the external cylindrical units often seen in Thailand).

There are two basic configurations:

With tank under the roof, a thermosyphon system collects heated water and makes it available for use. With the tank located well below the roof, a "forced system" utilizes a pump to circulate water to the collector. Again, all that is visible externally is the collector unit.

Basic benefits:

* Turn-key price includes all collector and tank elements, auxiliary electrical heating unit for tank, all fixtures and piping, installation by technician trained and certified by the factory in Israel, three-year warantee on service and parts, five-year warantee on parts alone.

* Able to heat water for 100 percent of demand in hot season, 80 percent of demand in cool season and 50 percent of demand in rainy season, varying of course by the weather.

Approved by:

* Israel, Standards Institute, ISO 2000:9001

* Spain, Standards Institute of Solar Energy

* Germany, Institute of Thermodyanamics and Heating

Collector size from 1.9 to 2.7 square meters; tanks from 150 to 300 liters.

Prices:

Number of people Tank Size Price

4-6 150 liters 67,000 baht

6-8 200 liters 79,000 baht

8 or more 300 liters 110,000 baht

At current electrical prices in Thailand, the manufacturer estimates units will pay for themselves in 5 years; however we all know that energy prices are likely to increase, probably making the "payback time" shorter.

Units are designed and manufactured for longevity. According to the importer, cheaper units made in China now on sale in Thailand utilize vacuum glass technology that is likely to crack and fail over time, narrow tubing that will clog and fail to heat water, no design consideration for elimination of clogging and heating technology that requires the holding tank to be adjacent to the collector, hence the holding tank mounted externally on the roof.

Quoted prices of Chinese units often do not include tubing, fixtures, installation or long-term service.

[Hog Head]

A local supplier and installer of quality glass solar water heaters, with the best name I have ever seen is:

Pick-Ass International Ltd. in Lampun. Contact is Uwe Conrad at 01 022 9872

Also deals in double glazed PVC windows.

I am taking a slightly different approach, combining a solar panel and conventional electric hot water tank. I brought 2 x 170 liter electric hot water tanks when I immigrated from Canada, but one could buy a similar smaller unit here. The plan is to install the solar panel(s) on the roof, and feed into this tank(s), controlled by a thermocouple, PLC, and pump.

Primary source would be solar, however in instances where everyone showers at night, wife fills the big Jacussi, etc, then hot water is available in the morning. No unsightly and heavy tank on the roof, and a redundant source. Probably more expensive, but neverending hot water at a price.

[tango]

Pik-Ass has a display at the new Rimping store on the ring road until the 14 th of August. Their 105L Vacuum Solar water heater for 2-3 pers is B19,736 up to B39,977 for a 285L 6 pers system. They also had a solar garden lamp on sale for approx B500. Their windows also come double-glazed w the option of low E-gas. All in all, not bad. They are in 40 Moo2 NongHoi...not sure exactly where.

Cheers,

Tango

[mobile69]

Global house have a couple on display. 165 & 240 litre sizes. I think they started at 39,000bt.

[SamSipEt]

Many thanks to one and all for the wealth of info.

[ronw]

if you look on ebay...you can get, for 4$ us...an email download, which gives full installation instructions, for a roof mounted solar water heater...might be worth speculating a mere 4$........

[Pond Life]

A slight deviation on the topic, but, Im planning to use solar hot water for an underfloor heating system.

Does anyone know where I can find PEX tubing (flexible plastic hot water pipe) the copper pipe prices I've heard mentioned here are way to expensive as I need alot of it.

Also I e mailed envima in bangkok for a quote on a hot water system & got no reply, not a good buisness strategy.

Thanks

[chownah]

A heated floor in Thailand....how unusual!

[Pond Life]

Chownah, I didnt give the full story, its a similar idea to underfloor heating (thermal mass) but should be able to do cooling also, using cold ground water.

Were i am up in the mountains it gets real cold at night in winter.

Anyway anyone seen PEX tubeing for sale ?

[Johpa]

Chownah, I didnt give the full story, its a similar idea to underfloor heating (thermal mass) but should be able to do cooling also, using cold ground water.

Were i am up in the mountains it gets real cold at night in winter.

Anyway anyone seen PEX tubeing for sale ?

Up in the hills the air can get very cold at night but since the days are still relatively warm, the floors do not get as cold. Unless you are living atop Doi Inthanon or in an Akha village atop a hill, methinks underfloor heating is a bit of an overstatment, if not simply ridiculous.

[Pond Life]

Ok, heres the full story, youre welcome to think it ridiculous.

I live up in the mountains, in winter at night it often gets down to 7 deg, which for me is a bit cool as Im a wimp & I've got a bit of arthritis.

In the summer afternoons with the sun in the front of the house the temp inside can get up to 40 deg, not very pleasant.

So, I could take the traditional energy guzling solution of aircon & electric heating, but Im a tree hugging dreamer who runs his house on solar power so that aint gonna work, i've barely got enough electric to run a fridge.

So, my idea is to build a false fire place out of brick & concrete, aprox 1.75 cu m, weighing maybe 1500 kg. inside the concrete is coiled alot of 1/2 inch pipe (copper or PEX). On a winter afternoon & evening I would pump hot water from a solar water heater through the pipes, which heats up the thermal mass of the fire place & keeps the house warm all night.

In the summer, cold well water (23 deg c) could be pumped through the same pipes cooling the thermal mass & therefore (hopefully) the house, which is small.

The only energy consumption would be a small circulation pump useing about 50-80 watts per hour.

Now you may think Im crazy, stupid or deluded, but do you know where I can find some PEX tubing or suggest an alternative to copper pipe, as sealing 20,000 baht worth of copper in concrete seems a bit extravagant.

Its got to be good quality tho' as once the concrete is poured, if theres a leak it'll be a bugger to fix.

suggestions & critics welcome.

[Pond Life]

Oops, I forgot to mention that the house is wood, with wooden floors.

& yes i have thought about how to support 1.5 ton on a wooden floor.

[Johpa]

I live up in the mountains, in winter at night it often gets down to 7 deg, which for me is a bit cool as Im a wimp & I've got a bit of arthritis.

In the summer afternoons with the sun in the front of the house the temp inside can get up to 40 deg, not very pleasant.

Although I no longer live in-country, I have maintained a home up in the mountains for 20 years now. For keeping cool during the hotter seasons I have a few "green" suggestions. It helps to plant leafy fruit trees that can grow pretty tall, like mango and linchee on the south side of the home to provide shade. Of course that will take a few years so you can also insulate the house against the sun by draping those bamboo curtain shades in front of any windows or brick, especially the brick that probably makes up the lower walls of the house. Those curtains can be rolled up at night. The biggest issue if you are married to a Thai is that since nobody else in the village is doing it, your spouse will not willingly try anything novel without a fight.

If you have an enclosed roof space, it really helps to install a ventilation fan for that space. It also helps to install a series of small fans in the walls that create a cross flow of air just below the ceiling to vent out the heat trapped there.

But apart from installing air-con there really is no solution to 40 deg days other than to ride up and visit people who live even further up the mountain. So maintaining friendships with the neighboring folks higer up, usually Mong or Akha, is another worthwhile investment of time that can pay extra dividends year round.

Of course the opposite is true in winter when you want the rays of the winter sun to warm up that same brick on the house. Having an outdoor fire pit in the winter near the house will provide a traditional warm place to congregate. But being realistic, there are only a handfull of days each year where the temps drop below 7 deg, so maybe a trip into Chiang Mai during those days would make more economic sense then installing a heating system.

[SamSipEt]

Now you may think Im crazy, stupid or deluded, but do you know where I can find some PEX tubing

Neither crazy or stupid it’s an interesting idea and please do let us know if it works or not as and when it has been installed.

Try calling the various solar heating companies with your request for PEX they probably offer it as a cheaper alternative to copper pipe.