Probe Of Japanese Cameraman's Death Is Worrying

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL

Probe of Japanese cameraman's death is worrying

The Nation

Chalerm's assurances count for little in this poisoned political environment

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said the police report into the death of a Japanese cameraman in connection with last year's political mayhem is being wrapped up and the prosecution review will commence next week.

Speaking to the Japanese ambassador to Thailand, Seiji Kojima, Chalerm said, "The Japanese government can rest assured that the case will be solved in a transparent manner and in accordance with the judicial process."

The outspoken politician said the police report was virtually done, pending the taking of additional statements from former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban. The two were in charge of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation, which authorised the anti-riot operations.

For many reasons, the assurance from Chalerm is not very assuring. It's not because he is one of the most controversial politicians in the country, or that he represents so many things that are wrong with Thai politics and society. And it's not because he is one of the most undiplomatic people in the country, who has been put in charge of this very diplomatically sensitive case.

In fact, if not careful, he could end up shooting himself in the foot like the Foreign Minister Surapong, who misled, or tried to mislead, the public into believing that Pheu Thai Party de facto leader Thaksin Shinawatra had been invited to Japan earlier this year to educate the Japanese about disaster management. The authorities in Tokyo made Surapong look foolish when they came out and maintained that the invitation was initiated by Surapong himself.

We can't deny the disturbing manner in which Thai law enforcement authorities have been handling the investigation into the death of 43-year-old Japanese cameraman Hiro Muramoto. He was among 25 people, including several soldiers, who died during clashes between soldiers and red-shirt protesters.

Besides the conflicting reports and accounts, many more questions are still left unanswered. For example, has the case been carried out according to police operating procedure or has there been interference?

The manner in which this case is being wrapped up - along with the tardiness with which it was initiated - suggests that there has been a great deal of political interference.

It has been over a year now, and all of a sudden, just months after this government came into being, there is certainty that Muramoto was killed by the military.

Chalerm cited an unnamed witness as saying the bullet that killed Muramoto came from the military. How Chalerm came up with a neutral eyewitness at that location on that unfortunate day, is beyond most people.

How does Chalerm know for certain that the bullet didn't come from the armed, hooded men in black that were allegedly associated with the red shirts? And will there be an investigation into that side of the fence, or a fair probe into the burning of scores of buildings in Bangkok and provincial halls throughout the country?

What's Chalerm doing regarding the people who allegedly told demonstrators to bring bottles of gasoline and turn Bangkok and the rest of the country into an ocean of fire?

Moreover, let's not forget the yellow shirts who brought the entire region's air transport network into chaos after they took over Suvarnabhumi International Airport, causing billions in damages and missed opportunities. Let's not forget that the Suvarnabhumi takeover followed a government crackdown on the yellow shirts, resulting in deaths and severe injuries.

Thai politics has become too complicated for the likes of Chalerm to settle cases. Muramoto's family and the Japanese people deserve to know the truth. Thailand and Japan have been friends for a long time, and the people of both countries deserve better than to watch Thai politicians tap dance on this investigation and try to cash in on it politically.

Regardless of who did what, the country's justice system must stay the course. No matter how far from perfection it may be, we must respect the law and use it as the one and only source of equilibrium to bring justice to those behind the violence, regardless of whether they are red, yellow or the military.

-- The Nation 2011-12-04

[Roadman]

Regardless of who did what, the country's justice system must stay the course. No matter how far from perfection it may be, we must respect the law and use it as the one and only source of equilibrium to bring justice to those behind the violence, regardless of whether they are red, yellow or the military.

And there has been the problem right back to 2001 when Thaksin and his plants and thugs have over rid, brought or threatened justice and the law at every turn. Same thieves, thugs and criminals in control now so nothing is different - justice and the law in Thailand are a joke when this governing lot are anywhere near it.

[Siam Simon]

Regardless of who did what, the country's justice system must stay the course. No matter how far from perfection it may be, we must respect the law and use it as the one and only source of equilibrium to bring justice to those behind the violence, regardless of whether they are red, yellow or the military.

And there has been the problem right back to 2001 when Thaksin and his plants and thugs have over rid, brought or threatened justice and the law at every turn. Same thieves, thugs and criminals in control now so nothing is different - justice and the law in Thailand are a joke when this governing lot are anywhere near it.

Ah! Started in 2001 did it? Got it! Wow! did you see what just floated across the skyline?

[moe666]

There was an oppertunity for the democrats to put this mess to rest but they let the ball slip away, now we have the ptp with there own agenda which isn't about justice or fairness.

[OzMick]

I doubt that any investigation would ever be able to ascertain who killed him. But IMHO, with Chalerm and Priewpan conducting this investigation, it would be better for Abhisit and Suthep to have rock solid alibis.

[phiphidon]

Regardless of who did what, the country's justice system must stay the course. No matter how far from perfection it may be, we must respect the law and use it as the one and only source of equilibrium to bring justice to those behind the violence, regardless of whether they are red, yellow or the military.

And there has been the problem right back to 2001 when Thaksin and his plants and thugs have over rid, brought or threatened justice and the law at every turn. Same thieves, thugs and criminals in control now so nothing is different - justice and the law in Thailand are a joke when this governing lot are anywhere near it.

So the Judges are incorruptible when the democrats in power but suddenly do a flip turn anytime the PTP or its predecessors turn up?

[hellodolly]

What worries me is that so many farongs can take this seriously.

Yes it was a tragic thing but that is part of the danger in being in a combat zone.

As has been pointed out he was an experienced corespondent he was not a dummy he knew the danger.

His being shot was no more serious than the civilians and army personnel being shot.\

They were all in a combat zone and unless they were really stupid they had to know the danger.

Well being a red shirt there is a high possibility that they did not know it was dangerous.

[scorecard]

Regardless of who did what, the country's justice system must stay the course. No matter how far from perfection it may be, we must respect the law and use it as the one and only source of equilibrium to bring justice to those behind the violence, regardless of whether they are red, yellow or the military.

And there has been the problem right back to 2001 when Thaksin and his plants and thugs have over rid, brought or threatened justice and the law at every turn. Same thieves, thugs and criminals in control now so nothing is different - justice and the law in Thailand are a joke when this governing lot are anywhere near it.

Ah! Started in 2001 did it? Got it! Wow! did you see what just floated across the skyline?

True, lack of transparency and corruption of the judiciary started decades ago and under no government has it been totally balanced and beyond question.

And there is also truth in saying that thaksin did take corruption of the judiciary and it's process to new heights. He totally ignored the laws (most of which had been in place for decades and were appropriate laws on which you build civil societies) for his own selfish ends.

[scorecard]

From the NAtion:

"...Chalerm cited an unnamed witness as saying the bullet that killed Muramoto came from the military. How Chalerm came up with a neutral eyewitness at that location on that unfortunate day, is beyond most people. ..."

So chalerm says there is a specific witness (unnamed) who can state categorically/ as an absolute unquestionable fact (which would stand up to questioning by a defense lawyer) which rifle the bullet came from and can categorically testify (which would stand up to questioning by a defense lawyer)who was using that rifle and can also give categorically that he/she (the witness) can by some logical and watertight explanation prove that it was the same bullet which hit the unfortunate cameraman several hundred meters away.

Why does this all ring a bell to the incident when his own thug son was involved in a shooting in a pub and the victim was almost at point blank range, plus other evidence, and chalerm claimed that it could not be categorically proven that his son shot the policeman.

Chalerm, as scaly and unreliable as a crocodile.

[binjalin]

1322963125[/url]' post='4889398']

There was an oppertunity for the democrats to put this mess to rest but they let the ball slip away, now we have the ptp with there own agenda which isn't about justice or fairness.

Fair point

[hanuman2543]

"and the people of both countries deserve better than to watch Thai politicians tap dance on this investigation and try to cash in on it politically.

Regardless of who did what, the country's justice system must stay the course. No matter how far from perfection it may be, we must respect the law and use it as the one and only source of equilibrium to bring justice to those behind the violence, regardless of whether they are red, yellow or the military."

Reueters and HRW both conducted own investigations and came up with the result that the Japanese cameraman died from a bullet from a Thai soldier. Why they can do it in 6 month and the Thai authorities need 1,5 years? The Thai authorities playing the usual game of lying and covering up for the benefit of who is in power at the moment and will bury the whole story under a mountain of paper as they always do. All people who lost their lifes there deserve justice never mind red, yellow or army, but I doubt that they will get it like so many times before.

[Scott]

A paid to post comment has been removed. Please don't make accusations that people are paid to post on the forum.

[anon467367354]

I thought the last pic that was found on the reporter's camera was one of those armed men in black. Wasn't it that pic that made the public aware of these people mingling amongst the protesters?

[Buchholz]

Reueters and HRW both conducted own investigations and came up with

Sure would be nice to be able to read that Reuters investigation... that hasn't been released.

.

[hanuman2543]

Reueters and HRW both conducted own investigations and came up with

Sure would be nice to be able to read that Reuters investigation... that hasn't been released.

.

You can find it on the website of Andrew Macgregor Marshall and some here http://www.reuters.c...E6B90OR20101210 and on the website of HRW (it is a more than a 100 pages report about April and May 2010) .

Title:

Descent into Chaos

Thailand's 2010 Red Shirt Protests and

the Government Crackdown

Edited December 4, 2011 by hanuman2543

[Scott]

A post violating fair use policy has been deleted.

[virtualtraveller]

I'm no forensics expert but... remove the bullet from the deceased, does it come from an army issue rifle. Then, investigate whether other bullets, ones that killed soldiers or at least obviously came from within the crowd, to see if any of them were army issue (remember, stolen weapons and an Army general were responsible for the Black Shirts), if not then you can reasonably conclude he was shot by the army.

Having established that, take it one step further. Was he deliberately killed by the army, or was he collateral damage. As a journalist was he 'behind enemy lines' in which case he should accept that his death was partly his own fault - bullets are not selective on whether you are enemy or press.

Take it one step further still, though the army are proven to have killed some people, were they negligent or abusing their power, or were they correct to be taking back the streets held hostage by an armed group who were breaking the law and refused to be dispersed.

Suppose this, the journalist was covering the border spat between Cambodia and Thailand, he's on the Cambodian side, he gets shot dead, he holds the Thai army responsible.

[AleG]

What worries me is that so many farongs can take this seriously.

Yes it was a tragic thing but that is part of the danger in being in a combat zone.

As has been pointed out he was an experienced corespondent he was not a dummy he knew the danger.

His being shot was no more serious than the civilians and army personnel being shot.\

They were all in a combat zone and unless they were really stupid they had to know the danger.

Well being a red shirt there is a high possibility that they did not know it was dangerous.

I disagree, the protest site wasn't a combat zone, Muramoto, and all the rest, had no way of knowing that someone had plans for making it so though. The army didn't shoot or kill anyone during the whole day of operations until they came under attack.

If the Black Shirts wouldn't have opened fire that night I'm sure there wouldn't had been any deaths. Those people chose to ambush and engage the army, they decided whether it was going to be a combat zone or not.

It's likely that the cameraman was hit by a bullet from the army as a result of being in the middle of the crossfire, just as likely as it may had been a bullet from the other side, very unlikely that he was specifically targeted and borders on the absurd that he would had been shot by a sniper twice. Fellow soldiers are being shot at and the alleged army sniper instead of trying to find and shoot back at the attackers decides to fire at an unarmed foreign journalist? Ridiculous.

As I said in another thread, the bottom line is that those "Black Shirts" set up the scene on that night, they positioned themselves so that protesters would be caught in a firing alley; if they would had been there to protect the Red Shirts they did the worst possible thing. They could have either placed themselves behind the army lines or on the sides, instead the shot through and over the protesters it was inevitable people would die in the crossfire and I don't believe that was a "honest mistake".

[aaacorp]

What worries me is that so many farongs can take this seriously.

Yes it was a tragic thing but that is part of the danger in being in a combat zone.

As has been pointed out he was an experienced corespondent he was not a dummy he knew the danger.

His being shot was no more serious than the civilians and army personnel being shot.\

They were all in a combat zone and unless they were really stupid they had to know the danger.

Well being a red shirt there is a high possibility that they did not know it was dangerous.

So in your opinion this death sould be a kind of "damageable accident" which does not deserves any explanation?

Like all the other deaths in this event they have to be explained

Japan officials won t be satisfied by just an accident...Yes farangs take this seriously and japanese too because of the lack of transparency, and thai should also know what happened.

You really should run for a political siege in thai government, your logic is quite the same

[Buchholz]

Reueters and HRW both conducted own investigations and came up with

Sure would be nice to be able to read that Reuters investigation... that hasn't been released.

.

You can find it on the website of Andrew Macgregor Marshall

Thank you, but I was referring to Reuters investigation that you mentioned, not the DSI investigation.

According to Marshall, the full report has not yet been released.

.

[E1717007]

What worries me is that so many farongs can take this seriously.

Yes it was a tragic thing but that is part of the danger in being in a combat zone.

As has been pointed out he was an experienced corespondent he was not a dummy he knew the danger.

His being shot was no more serious than the civilians and army personnel being shot.\

They were all in a combat zone and unless they were really stupid they had to know the danger.

Well being a red shirt there is a high possibility that they did not know it was dangerous.

I disagree, the protest site wasn't a combat zone, Muramoto, and all the rest, had no way of knowing that someone had plans for making it so though. The army didn't shoot or kill anyone during the whole day of operations until they came under attack.

If the Black Shirts wouldn't have opened fire that night I'm sure there wouldn't had been any deaths. Those people chose to ambush and engage the army, they decided whether it was going to be a combat zone or not.

It's likely that the cameraman was hit by a bullet from the army as a result of being in the middle of the crossfire, just as likely as it may had been a bullet from the other side, very unlikely that he was specifically targeted and borders on the absurd that he would had been shot by a sniper twice. Fellow soldiers are being shot at and the alleged army sniper instead of trying to find and shoot back at the attackers decides to fire at an unarmed foreign journalist? Ridiculous.

As I said in another thread, the bottom line is that those "Black Shirts" set up the scene on that night, they positioned themselves so that protesters would be caught in a firing alley; if they would had been there to protect the Red Shirts they did the worst possible thing. They could have either placed themselves behind the army lines or on the sides, instead the shot through and over the protesters it was inevitable people would die in the crossfire and I don't believe that was a "honest mistake".

the investigation revealed that the bullet was a common issued type, used by almost all SEA army and widely available on the black market. it is not a sniper round!

the army did try to convince others that the bullet was AK47 round, but we wouldnt know for sure as there was never a final conclusion or report issued.

[OzMick]

I doubt that any investigation would ever be able to ascertain who killed him.

you totaly hit the point, the main problem is that DSI (as they claimed in italien and german and international TV wasnt allow to start investigations from a higher power sad sad that we still dont know anything about how the jurnalists died, we all should ask ourselve why we dont know that and why till today there was no need for an investigation, and then the answer lay directly in front of us.........oh yes..........the same govermant was in charge was fighting against the step back of abisith.............of course we didnt got any answer or neither investigation, this would be look the democrats such bad

thailand is so funny in this days and i cannot wait til justice will be done for all the victims are died here are not army......(was the armys order and job that time to die anyways, thats what every soldier know before.....i doupt that the red shirts get payed to die)

Soldiers are not paid to die; they are paid to take risks to protect their country. Many red shirts on the other hand were paid to attend - whether they knew that they were about to participate in an armed insurrection is arguable, but if they listened to Arisman's "bring a bottle" speech they should have had little doubt.

Armed insurrection is not equivalent to peaceful protest. Those taking part are criminals. Those who did not leave when it became obvious that violence was being initiated from within their protest are not victims - they took a conscious decision to take part.

The fact that the criminals now are the government only proves that their tactics were successful. IMHO in the future they may have to face the consequences of their actions.

[TAWP]

Reueters and HRW both conducted own investigations and came up with the result that the Japanese cameraman died from a bullet from a Thai soldier.

Please supply any proof the the Reuters ordered investigation came to this conclusion.

[metisdead]

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[animatic]

I'm no forensics expert but... remove the bullet from the deceased, does it come from an army issue rifle. Then, investigate whether other bullets, ones that killed soldiers or at least obviously came from within the crowd, to see if any of them were army issue (remember, stolen weapons and an Army general were responsible for the Black Shirts), if not then you can reasonably conclude he was shot by the army.

Having established that, take it one step further. Was he deliberately killed by the army, or was he collateral damage. As a journalist was he 'behind enemy lines' in which case he should accept that his death was partly his own fault - bullets are not selective on whether you are enemy or press.

Take it one step further still, though the army are proven to have killed some people, were they negligent or abusing their power, or were they correct to be taking back the streets held hostage by an armed group who were breaking the law and refused to be dispersed.

Suppose this, the journalist was covering the border spat between Cambodia and Thailand, he's on the Cambodian side, he gets shot dead, he holds the Thai army responsible.

He was on the army side of the lines.

He may have simply stepped in front of a panicing soldier.

Army rifles should be issued with a serial number

and issued to a specific soldier.

So testing all the rifles that were there in army hands for balistics info

and comparing it from the bullet removed from the cameraman could

either confirm it was a specific rifle or exclude all those rifles.

IF they have a bullet confirmed to be from the dead man.

If not then the veracity of this witness, and ability to actual see the 'bullets trajectory and effect' CLEARLY enough to make a positive, irrefutable under examination, testimony on the subject, is the only possibility.

And still, if they have no evidence of Abhist or Suthep giving a specific order to kill in other than self defense circumstances, then there is nothing to convict them on.

If the cameraman was killed after the grenade attack that killed or wounded the

army commanders on scene, then accidental panic would be at worst a manslaughter charges against a single soldier IF they can match the gun, to the serial number, to the man.

If they had any of this they would have put it out there long ago. Otherwise this is a witch hunt to try and please the Japanese when Thailand desperately needs Japan industry to NOT leave them and go elsewhere after this flood disaster.

You couldn't have paid me enough to be where he was.....

RIP Mr. Muramoto.

Edited December 4, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Reueters and HRW both conducted own investigations and came up with the result that the Japanese cameraman died from a bullet from a Thai soldier.

Please supply any proof the the Reuters ordered investigation came to this conclusion.

And add their conclusion of motive or lack there-of also.

Having seen the films of the place confusion and fear would be the culprits, not the conscious decision of a soldier to kill this man.

[myfriendu]

What worries me is that so many farongs can take this seriously.

Yes it was a tragic thing but that is part of the danger in being in a combat zone.

As has been pointed out he was an experienced corespondent he was not a dummy he knew the danger.

His being shot was no more serious than the civilians and army personnel being shot.\

They were all in a combat zone and unless they were really stupid they had to know the danger.

Well being a red shirt there is a high possibility that they did not know it was dangerous.

let me guess, the only thing you read is the Nation right ?

you wasnt in thailand or something ? you cant talk thai either ? why not simply be silent on a theme where you have such a big hole of information got filled with missinformations ?

all was peacefull till the day they force abisith to step down and people behind him ordered him to not step down and instead gave the order of start shooting.........buddy how about u start use you brain instead of simply replay what you read daily in a newspaper has the worth of toilet paper ?

...........

explain me following oke ?

there is 30 thousend soldiers in bangkok, fairytails about black shirt people are on the red side, close to 2000 people injured.may you explain me why we never saw any of this war weapon armed black shirt laying in a bath of blood ?

a) was there no black shirts and its all a fairytail to back up the use of live ammunition to secure the democrat goermant

is the army full of douchbags cannot use guns, or all they all blind

then ask urselve why there was a declared combat zone ............and who had a pluss from that zone, or why it was created.

because of this dangerous black shirts noone ever found or saw in real ?

if you read the bibel you also belive god exist right ?

gosh start use ur brain men, im sure u have one so use it and stop coppy and past shit from others here in TV or the nation

go look on youtube plenty of live action with the blackshirts firing,and a few redshirts getting shot from behind,and were you not blind to see who got shot at first.belive what you want dont wash with me

[hanuman2543]

"April 10 was the first anniversary of Hiro’s death. A few days beforehand, the Reuters managing editor for Asia circulated an e-mail notifying staff that a minute’s silence would be held in his memory. I replied asking once again – in my capacity as a senior editor with responsibility for political and general news coverage on Thailand, among other countries – whether I could report on the evidence in Reuters possession suggesting authorities were lying in their latest findings on Hiro. I was given a stern talking to. Among the reasons I was given for the company’s failure to share the information was that under Thai law it had been illegal for them to commission a third-party investigation into Hiro’s death, and that when commissioning the report, their agreement with the company that handled the investigation was that it would remain confidential. I did not consider these adequate reasons to withhold important findings about Hiro’s death, and I said so."

[animatic]

"...Their report also concluded that Hiro

was killed by a bullet fired by a Thai soldier,

probably not specifically targeted.

It added that the bullet that killed Hiro was

most likely to have been standard military issue,

and not from an AK47 or pistol.

So essentially they say what they believe, but can NOT state it as facts

Probably : meaning they assume it was accidental in fog of battle,

"Most likely to have been standard issue" but they don't know.

Plenty of reason to keep this confidential in house.

And of course the ex-army types in the well observed Black Shirts

at that evenings street battle would have had access to ARMY ISSUE ordinance.

Especially if they were directly connected to Sae Daeng as HE was alluding to repeatedly.

Of course the ringers in the Red Riots groups would ALL be ex-military,

and know who what and when to target behind army lines for maximum chaos as was achieved.

There were Thai Soldiers on BOTH SIDES with Thai military weapons.

[hanuman2543]

The people who died there deserve the truth. It doesn't matter if they were yellow, red, army or innocent bystanders they all deserve justice and whoever is responsible in one way or another should face the consequences. The sad truth is that every side denies responsiblity and hide behind accusations, cover ups and lies and both sides have something to hide.