Tensions Grow As Thailand Awaits Thaksin's Return

[ratcatcher]

Best he comes back quickly, otherwise his throne seat will be getting cold.

An interesting deletion.

[geriatrickid]

I have worked in refugee services, including asylum cases. These cases usually take a long time to get settled. If an application was made, I would guess that it would not have been rejected in the relatively short period that he was in the UK. It may have been withdrawn.

I do not know about the restrictions in the UK, but his freedom to engage in political activities related to Thailand might not have been allowed by someone seeking asylum.

Exactly. Asylum would have precluded his political activity. No phone ins, no audiences etc.

[tragickingdom]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

[geriatrickid]

OP(Thaksin) > "Those who are not brutal and not self-centred had better get into the reconciliation mode now,'' he told the Bangkok Post."

Hypcritical laugh creator of the year.

I take it that you are opposed to reconciliation and peace then? As the former PM suggests, it would be prudent to give reconciliation some sober second thought. The consequences of a small coterie of foreign guests seeking to thwart reconciliation ridiculing Thailand's movement to peace may find themselves in a difficult position.

More threats, actually you often reveal your real principles.

The threats are thrown in just in case you are in any doubt as to where his political affections / adorations lie.

How have I made a threat? Are you expecting me to show up at local bar with a contingent of patriotic Thais to haul you off your bar stool? Do you think we'd keep you incommunicado in the same manner as the military does with southerners? Or perhaps you think we'd inflict the barbaric torture of sticking you on an Air asia flight out of the country without any of the expensive options? The fact of the matter is that most foreigners have the good sense to keep a low profile when it comes to political activities. Nothing beats a foreigner as a scapegoat. To date we have seen some incredibly foolish and what I think were mentally ill people, join the redshirt and yellowshirt protests. The Thais treated them remarkably decently all things considered. I don't think there will be similar restraint from either side next time. I don't think some foreigners realize how delicate the situation is in respect to some foreigners agitating on behalf of their preferred side in the dispute.

[rixalex]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

[lungmi]

There may be posters who are more knowledgeable about asylum cases in the UK. At a minimum, however, he would not have been free to move from country to country while asking for asylum.

A big question that has to be answered in many asylum cases is "Are you fleeing persecution, or are you fleeing prosecution?"

Simply being ousted by a coup would not necessarily be persecution. Thaksin would have to show that he was facing discrimination that was severe enough and cumulative enough to amount to persecution. If I were an adjudicating officer, I would not grant him asylum, but that is based on the knowledge that he has the financial resources to appeal the case for a more thorough legal review of his situation and the conditions that await him upon his return.

In my memory (may be I'm wrong) Thaksin had problems with the UK because he didn't pay taxes (as usual for him) when he sold his soccer team in England.

[geriatrickid]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

As long as the elected government has a mandate to act in a legal manner, the two cases are quite different. The PTP platform was well known. The government is following the law in respect to its decisions. It has not done anything unlawful.

Are you still sore over the PTP receiving a plurality of the votes and then being joined by other parties to create an indisputable large majority to govern?

[rixalex]

How have I made a threat? Are you expecting me to show up at local bar with a contingent of patriotic Thais to haul you off your bar stool? Do you think we'd keep you incommunicado in the same manner as the military does with southerners? Or perhaps you think we'd inflict the barbaric torture of sticking you on an Air asia flight out of the country without any of the expensive options? The fact of the matter is that most foreigners have the good sense to keep a low profile when it comes to political activities. Nothing beats a foreigner as a scapegoat. To date we have seen some incredibly foolish and what I think were mentally ill people, join the redshirt and yellowshirt protests. The Thais treated them remarkably decently all things considered. I don't think there will be similar restraint from either side next time. I don't think some foreigners realize how delicate the situation is in respect to some foreigners agitating on behalf of their preferred side in the dispute.

And of course, how predictable, after the threat (which, by the way, nobody said anything about being taken seriously - like threats from cyber warriors ever are) comes the snide, you must be some sort of bar-hoping sexpat remark, discreetly slipped in.

[rixalex]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

As long as the elected government has a mandate to act in a legal manner, the two cases are quite different. The PTP platform was well known. The government is following the law in respect to its decisions. It has not done anything unlawful.

Are you still sore over the PTP receiving a plurality of the votes and then being joined by other parties to create an indisputable large majority to govern?

Tragickingdom said that if generals can rape democracy and get away with it, he sees no reason why elected governments shouldn't do the same. Now to me, raping democracy doesn't sound like a particularly legal activity, whether with or without a mandate.

[wxyz]

"Tensions grow as Thailand awaits Thaksin's return"

not a question of if, it is a question of when/

is there a pool on when he returns?

[wxyz]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

As long as the elected government has a mandate to act in a legal manner, the two cases are quite different. The PTP platform was well known. The government is following the law in respect to its decisions. It has not done anything unlawful.

Are you still sore over the PTP receiving a plurality of the votes and then being joined by other parties to create an indisputable large majority to govern?

"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything". - Joseph Stalin

[saroq]

OP(Thaksin) > "Those who are not brutal and not self-centred had better get into the reconciliation mode now,'' he told the Bangkok Post."

Hypcritical laugh creator of the year.

I take it that you are opposed to reconciliation and peace then? As the former PM suggests, it would be prudent to give reconciliation some sober second thought. The consequences of a small coterie of foreign guests seeking to thwart reconciliation ridiculing Thailand's movement to peace may find themselves in a difficult position.

Exactly how do you think a small coterie of foreign guests could thwart reconciliation in Thailand by posting their opinions on TV? Or is controlling what opinion can be expressed part of the peace process? Is the implied threat of finding themselves in a "difficult position" also part of reconciliation or just reconciliation on the terms dictated by the most powerful person at the time?

Edited December 29, 2011 by saroq

[geriatrickid]

How have I made a threat? Are you expecting me to show up at local bar with a contingent of patriotic Thais to haul you off your bar stool? Do you think we'd keep you incommunicado in the same manner as the military does with southerners? Or perhaps you think we'd inflict the barbaric torture of sticking you on an Air asia flight out of the country without any of the expensive options? The fact of the matter is that most foreigners have the good sense to keep a low profile when it comes to political activities. Nothing beats a foreigner as a scapegoat. To date we have seen some incredibly foolish and what I think were mentally ill people, join the redshirt and yellowshirt protests. The Thais treated them remarkably decently all things considered. I don't think there will be similar restraint from either side next time. I don't think some foreigners realize how delicate the situation is in respect to some foreigners agitating on behalf of their preferred side in the dispute.

And of course, how predictable, after the threat (which, by the way, nobody said anything about being taken seriously - like threats from cyber warriors ever are) comes the snide, you must be some sort of bar-hoping sexpat remark, discreetly slipped in.

I made no reference to your being a bar hopping sexpat. If you are one, good for you. It's not my concern. There was no threat made.

[geriatrickid]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

As long as the elected government has a mandate to act in a legal manner, the two cases are quite different. The PTP platform was well known. The government is following the law in respect to its decisions. It has not done anything unlawful.

Are you still sore over the PTP receiving a plurality of the votes and then being joined by other parties to create an indisputable large majority to govern?

"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything". - Joseph Stalin

Mr. Stalin is dead, much like the ability for the military to mount another successful coup. PM Yingluck enjoys the confidence of the nation and the people are there in her support and defense if needed.

[EyesWideOpen]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

As long as the elected government has a mandate to act in a legal manner, the two cases are quite different. The PTP platform was well known. The government is following the law in respect to its decisions. It has not done anything unlawful.

Are you still sore over the PTP receiving a plurality of the votes and then being joined by other parties to create an indisputable large majority to govern?

"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything". - Joseph Stalin

Certainly a interesting quote from the greatest mass murder in human history. However since the votes are bought here, I suspect there is not a lot of time spent trying to engineer vote fraud at the ballot box.....

Regarding the " mandate" of the PTP party, which is to bring Thaksin back, they are in fact doing exactly what they promised the Thai people. This mandate did not seem to work out so well with the flooded red buffaloes, who were ignored by the government while it was working full steam to bring Thaksin back.

Regarding GK's vague threat against TV posters who are anti-Thaksin, upon his return will Thaksin have teams of English speaking experts pouring over posts on TV looking for critical ones of him? Should I be packing my bags???? :-) Note to self : Do not criticize future dictators........

Edited December 29, 2011 by EyesWideOpen

[saroq]

Hey the citizens of the US to elected George Bush jr. twice so if we can allow them to elect an idiot like him let the Thais do as they please. Like the US situation it's their mess unless they make it mine.

Edited December 29, 2011 by saroq

[Jingthing]

There is a long pattern here of Thaksinista posters making both overt and subtle intimations about revenge against expats critical of Thaksin. Clearly a ploy to repress open, free speech. Some pro democracy movement, huh?

[wxyz]

OP(Thaksin) > "Those who are not brutal and not self-centred had better get into the reconciliation mode now,'' he told the Bangkok Post."

Hypcritical laugh creator of the year.

do they realize how funny their comments truly are?

it sounds like a dictator threat, no?

"brutal and self-centered", maybe he should look in the mirror

"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

[gl555]

Subtle threats of reprisals on anti-Thaksin posters if he ever gets back! You've got to love the Red apologists and how they believe 'democracy' and 'free speech' should work!

[Jingthing]

Subtle threats of reprisals on anti-Thaksin posters if he ever gets back! You've got to love the Red apologists and how they believe 'democracy' and 'free speech' should work!

My reaction is more like disgust. I am sure their tactics of intimidation are working on a lot of people though, Thai and foreign.

[anterian]

No not his version, but the factual British version. He never applied for asylum and was barred from re entry whilst abroad.

Never applied? In the above quote from him, he himself implies he applied and then changed his mind. My guess is either he was refused, or he was advised he was going to be, and so dropped it quickly in an effort to save face, giving that sad champion of democracy speech in the process. Only my guess though.

There is no record of him applying for asylum. The Thai government had requested his extradition, which placed the British government in a difficult position vis a vis Thai British relationships. Fortunately Thaksin then went on a trip, I believe to China, so Britain solved their dilemma by refusing him re-entry, hence they could not extradite him. From the sequence of events it was clearly all arranged as the simplest solution.

[geriatrickid]

There is a long pattern here of Thaksinista posters making both overt and subtle intimations about revenge against expats critical of Thaksin. Clearly a ploy to repress open, free speech. Some pro democracy movement, huh?

Please provide some examples. Are you alluding to a statement made by some in this thread that was a misinterpretation of a comment.

[geriatrickid]

Subtle threats of reprisals on anti-Thaksin posters if he ever gets back! You've got to love the Red apologists and how they believe 'democracy' and 'free speech' should work!

There are no subtle threats made in this thread, only the apparent hysterical claims made by some to thro the focus of discussion off the topic at hand. Rest assured, that even the harshest of critics are safe to continue drinking at their local beer bar.

[Scott]

A number of posts which are off-topic and discussing more about the intent of posters than about the topic have been deleted.

Please stay on the topic.

[Langsuan Man]

In exile since 2006, not 2008.

I believe 2008 is correct, he was ousted by the coup in 2006.

Thaksin returned to Thailand on 28 February 2008, after the People's Power Party, which he supported, won the post-coup elections.^[24] But after visiting Beijing for the 2008 Summer Olympics, he did not return to hear the final supreme court sentence and applied for asylum in the United Kingdom. This was refused, after which he had to move about from one country to another. In October, the Thailand Supreme Court found him guilty of a conflict of interest and sentenced him in absentia to two years imprisonment.

http://en.wikipedia....ksin_Shinawatra

Let's not quibble over dates since someone finally got the sequence of events correct

For those with a short memory, the whole time he was in self imposed exile after the coup, he stated numerous times that he just wanted to come back so that he could defend himself in court. He came back and literally kissed the ground upon arrival and was welcomed with open arms by his followers

Despite all the grand statements when he felt the wind was blowing against him, during the day in court that he so wanted, he skips out to go to the Olympics before the verdict is published

And let us not forget the sham divorce from his wife so that she could appeal her conviction, which was successful and she even got her / his money back. And finally, no one has ever paid taxes on the profits from the sale of Shin Corp. to the Singaporeans

[hellodolly]

OP(Thaksin) > "Those who are not brutal and not self-centred had better get into the reconciliation mode now,'' he told the Bangkok Post."

Hypcritical laugh creator of the year.

Ya I just about fell of my seat when I saw that. The sad part is there is a lot of people who think he is including himself in that statement.

Stupidity has no limits.

[Jangot]

Waiting for Godot

[TAWP]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

What he is saying is that he sees nothing wrong with PTP going ahead and raping the democracy and then giving themselves amnesty.

Because that is called Red Democracy.

[janverbeem]

He is already here.

Helicopter landed on a hospital Chon buri from Cambodia and took him and family to a location in the south. The Pilot said this is not the first time he has flown into Thailand and the Army is fully aware.

I'm sure you have alink for that rumour?

Anyway,I find it utterly strange that there has been no news or pictures from his daughters wedding which has happened almost 3 weeks ago.

[siampolee]

Mr. Fujimori is believed to be the world’s first democratically elected former president to be tried for human rights violations in his own country.

Of course there is the precedent concerning the ex Peruvian President Alberto K. Fujimoro who decided to return to Peru, things might well go belly up for Thakin if the people don't fall for the antics of the P.T.P. (Personal Thaksin Party).

Samak got shafted and Chalerm has always eyed the P,M.s position, politicians make strange bedfellows, no more so than here in Thailand.

The thing I find interesting is that all the valiant staunch supporters of Thaksin have not in the main lived here in Thailand for any length of time and have not seen the cancer of deceit, corruption and the death squads at work that occurred when Thaksin was in power.

Lawyers vanishing, witnesses in court cases vanishing people who were linked to litigation against Thaksin and his ilk all went missing along with news organisations and press members being sued for billions.

Democracy and Thaksin, words spoken in the same breath ? Don't make me laugh.

Edited December 29, 2011 by siampolee