Tensions Grow As Thailand Awaits Thaksin's Return

[Scott]

More off-topic and seriously off-topic posts deleted. Please stick to the OP and comments about other posts, not on the personality of the poster.

[TAWP]

Subtle threats of reprisals on anti-Thaksin posters if he ever gets back! You've got to love the Red apologists and how they believe 'democracy' and 'free speech' should work!

A classic, gl555. You're one of the more consist hate-speech posters on TV which is not protected speech.

Please substantiate that claim by supplying proof that he is posting hate speech. And then tell us what the definition is and why it should fall outside the Freedom of Speech concept.

If you define it well your next step will be to write personal letters to radio stations that, if your definition so applies, breaks this definition.

[geriatrickid]

Subtle threats of reprisals on anti-Thaksin posters if he ever gets back! You've got to love the Red apologists and how they believe 'democracy' and 'free speech' should work!

There are no subtle threats made in this thread, only the apparent hysterical claims made by some to throw the focus of discussion off the topic at hand. Rest assured, that even the harshest of critics are safe to continue drinking at their local beer bar.

... where they can enjoy strenuous debate with characters like these:

The stick-throwing action still has me in awe to this day.

Easily impressed then. Quite the feeding frenzy in here. At least I am consistent. You did read my previous comment, right?

To date we have seen some incredibly foolish and what I think were mentally ill people, join the redshirt and yellowshirt protests. The Thais treated them remarkably decently all things considered. I don't think there will be similar restraint from either side next time. I don't think some foreigners realize how delicate the situation is in respect to some foreigners agitating on behalf of their preferred side in the dispute.

My statement was robustly fair, especially since I was not taking sides. In respect to the chap featured in the video above, subsequent to investigation, he was treated as someone that was mentally ill, which spoke to the compassion of Thai authorities and the presence of foreign diplomatic intervention on behalf of an embarrassing foreigner. This is precisely what foreign embassies counsel against.

I am not going to engage in tit for tat by posting images of foreigners at PAD protests as it serves no purpose except to highlight the foolishness of anyone that becomes involved in these protests. Aside from it being illegal it results in significant collateral damage to the safety of other foreigners.

[geriatrickid]

Anyway,I find it utterly strange that there has been no news or pictures from his daughters wedding which has happened almost 3 weeks ago.

Pictures are available on Facebook if you are interested. Security was intense at Meridian Plaza Athenee where the nuptial celebrations occurred. Out of respect for those suffering from the floods, there was an attempt to be respectful and discreet. There were no ostentatious displays.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Scott
deleted quote edited out

[KeyserSoze01]

If generals can give themselves amnesty after raping democracy I do not see why a elected government cannot do the same.

If you condemn generals giving themselves amnesty after the "raping of democracy", I do not see why you wouldn't condemn with equal measure an elected government doing the same.

As long as the elected government has a mandate to act in a legal manner, the two cases are quite different. The PTP platform was well known. The government is following the law in respect to its decisions. It has not done anything unlawful.

Are you still sore over the PTP receiving a plurality of the votes and then being joined by other parties to create an indisputable large majority to govern?

"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything". - Joseph Stalin

A lesson well learned by Vladimir Putin.

[KeyserSoze01]

Mr. Stalin is dead, much like the ability for the military to mount another successful coup. PM Yingluck enjoys the confidence of the nation and the people are there in her support and defense if needed.

You know this for a fact? After her recent "handling" of the flood crisis, some might take you to task to support your statement with some proof.

[geriatrickid]

Mr. Fujimori is believed to be the world’s first democratically elected former president to be tried for human rights violations in his own country.

Of course there is the precedent concerning the ex Peruvian President Alberto K. Fujimoro who decided to return to Peru, things might well go belly up for Thakin if the people don't fall for the antics of the P.T.P. (Personal Thaksin Party).

Samak got shafted and Chalerm has always eyed the P,M.s position, politicians make strange bedfellows, no more so than here in Thailand.

The thing I find interesting is that all the valiant staunch supporters of Thaksin have not in the main lived here in Thailand for any length of time and have not seen the cancer of deceit, corruption and the death squads at work that occurred when Thaksin was in power.

Lawyers vanishing, witnesses in court cases vanishing people who were linked to litigation against Thaksin and his ilk all went missing along with news organisations and press members being sued for billions.

Democracy and Thaksin, words spoken in the same breath ? Don't make me laugh.

The Thaksin era when judged by independent groups does not escape the taint of corruption, but is considered to be a period of less corruption than other periods. I believe Bangkok Pundit discussed this in his column, you can google the subject to see the sources.

what's your problem with an aggrieved party seeking redress from the judicial system? Are you saying that a PM by virtue of being PM must give up his right to legal redress?

Oh my, you say Samak got shafted. well on that I agree. The loveable gentleman had a harmless cooking show. I think Thailand misses his presence now. he was a steady, patient man.

[animatic]

There is a long pattern here of Thaksinista posters making both overt and subtle intimations about revenge against expats critical of Thaksin. Clearly a ploy to repress open, free speech. Some pro democracy movement, huh?

+1 X 1,000 I am sure.

This is not the first time 'intimidation by insinuation' has been tried here.

In this case the premise is based on inept, or intentional skewed, reading of a post and twisting it till it fit the intended spurious argument tactic. Pretty pathetic debate technique... the moral component speaks for itself.

Edited December 29, 2011 by animatic

[geriatrickid]

Mr. Stalin is dead, much like the ability for the military to mount another successful coup. PM Yingluck enjoys the confidence of the nation and the people are there in her support and defense if needed.

You know this for a fact? After her recent "handling" of the flood crisis, some might take you to task to support your statement with some proof.

The polls recently published and featured in TVF all show a surprisingly strong position. When they were first posted, I stated at the time that I was expecting much lower numbers. To be honest, I found them hard to believe, but it wasn't just one poll. I think as time moves on and as things get back to normal, the government's position will strengthen, especially once the compensation starts getting distributed. Thought you got me there didn't you?

[geriatrickid]

There is a long pattern here of Thaksinista posters making both overt and subtle intimations about revenge against expats critical of Thaksin. Clearly a ploy to repress open, free speech. Some pro democracy movement, huh?

+1 X 1,000 I am sure.

This is not the first time intimidation my insinuation has been tried here.

It must be a deluge once all the active imaginations get going.

[Insight]

Subtle threats of reprisals on anti-Thaksin posters if he ever gets back! You've got to love the Red apologists and how they believe 'democracy' and 'free speech' should work!

There are no subtle threats made in this thread, only the apparent hysterical claims made by some to throw the focus of discussion off the topic at hand. Rest assured, that even the harshest of critics are safe to continue drinking at their local beer bar.

... where they can enjoy strenuous debate with characters like these:

The stick-throwing action still has me in awe to this day.

Easily impressed then. Quite the feeding frenzy in here. At least I am consistent. You did read my previous comment, right?

To date we have seen some incredibly foolish and what I think were mentally ill people, join the redshirt and yellowshirt protests. The Thais treated them remarkably decently all things considered. I don't think there will be similar restraint from either side next time. I don't think some foreigners realize how delicate the situation is in respect to some foreigners agitating on behalf of their preferred side in the dispute.

My statement was robustly fair, especially since I was not taking sides. In respect to the chap featured in the video above, subsequent to investigation, he was treated as someone that was mentally ill, which spoke to the compassion of Thai authorities and the presence of foreign diplomatic intervention on behalf of an embarrassing foreigner. This is precisely what foreign embassies counsel against.

I am not going to engage in tit for tat by posting images of foreigners at PAD protests as it serves no purpose except to highlight the foolishness of anyone that becomes involved in these protests. Aside from it being illegal it results in significant collateral damage to the safety of other foreigners.

But I thought you said "Rest assured, that even the harshest of critics are safe to continue drinking at their local beer bar."...?

So we are safe, as long as we don't go highlighting specific (well known) examples...?

I wish you would be more consistent.

[macjin]

Tensions grow as Thailand awaits Thaksin's return

Lindsay Murdoch

BANGKOK: Thailand's government has returned the Thai passport of the fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and is preparing to welcome him from exile, stoking renewed political tensions in the country.

Mr Thaksin, a divisive figure, missed a self-imposed deadline to be in Bangkok for the wedding of his daughter Pinthongta two weeks ago.

But supporters of the telecommunications tycoon, who has lived in exile since 2008, believe he will be home within months.

From Dubai where he is living, Mr Thaksin insists Thailand is about to enter a period of reconciliation after six years of upheaval, but warns that ''merchants of conflict'' will try to thwart the peace efforts.

''Those who are not brutal and not self-centred had better get into the reconciliation mode now,'' he told the Bangkok Post.

Powerful forces, including Bangkok's political and military elite, strongly oppose Mr Thaksin's return, unless he serves at least part of a two-year prison sentence for alleged corruption.

But MPs in Yingluck Shinawatra's Puea Thai party are planning amnesties for people on both sides of the country's bitterly divided politics, a move that government critics say is ostensibly designed to allow her brother back into the country without him having to go to jail.

The government is also planning constitutional amendments that Mr Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup, says should protect democratically elected representatives from being forced from power.

Ms Yingluck won a landslide election in July on a promise to her millions of so-called ''red shirt'' supporters that she would bring her brother home, and analysts say she will face a backlash from her own supporters if she fails to fulfil the promise.

In November the government was forced to withdraw an endorsement of a royal pardon for Mr Thaksin after leaders of the royalist ''yellow shirt'' movement and the opposition vowed to strongly protest against it. [more...]

Full story: http://www.smh.com.a...1228-1pczt.html

-- smh.com.au 2011-12-29

Coup was downright dirty and wrong to begin with, wanna talk about 'corruption'. well look no further than the elite conspirators! duh! talk about undemocratic and adverting law. Taksin was getting thailand out of debt and making it a more favorable place for business, elite dont want that, they want public debt!!! know it!

They want to spend and pass on the bill to low/middle classes via TAXES! surprise surprise, oldest trick in the book to make others pay for your lavish bills. governement debt is paid by you and me, what a great deal huh? government loves us mak mak see?

Taksin did have a genuine want to help ordinary people and make thailand better to some degrees or so, despite what you think. Socialism is not the answer of course, but free market is. Yes Taksin may be corrupt, but all of thailand is pretty much corrupt , including officials in gov.

eleite yellows want debt, because the system here is debt loaned money system so debt keeps the gears turning, but causes inflation and we pay for it. But no debt is good for us too but may jeopordize the Rothschild debt fiat money system (in place around the world and is mathematically proven to always end in tears) in place now here. money loaned into existence.

Yet Taksin does have ties to european elite and did conspire to do things for thailand which could advert its sovereignty ... Hes a double edge sword and discussion is very long to weight out.

Hey let see what happens if he comes back. This ones a show to watch!

[geriatrickid]

But I thought you said "Rest assured, that even the harshest of critics are safe to continue drinking at their local beer bar."...?

So we are safe, as long as we don't go highlighting specific (well known) examples...?

I wish you would be more consistent.

Your post is nonsensical. If you are referring to the video of the obviously unstable chap waving a stick on the street, it has no relevance to yours or anyone else's seating arrangements at your favourite watering hole.

My experience has been that the people offering unsolicited advice on how to fix things usually have no actual first hand experience nor have they ever met the people that make the decisions in this country. I suggest you attend one of the functions and meet some of the privy councillors and cabinet ministers. It's an eye opening experience. If you have your medals or national decorations, wear them.

[hellodolly]

Mr. Stalin is dead, much like the ability for the military to mount another successful coup. PM Yingluck enjoys the confidence of the nation and the people are there in her support and defense if needed.

You know this for a fact? After her recent "handling" of the flood crisis, some might take you to task to support your statement with some proof.

The polls recently published and featured in TVF all show a surprisingly strong position. When they were first posted, I stated at the time that I was expecting much lower numbers. To be honest, I found them hard to believe, but it wasn't just one poll. I think as time moves on and as things get back to normal, the government's position will strengthen, especially once the compensation starts getting distributed. Thought you got me there didn't you?

What polls the ones taken of a little over 1,000 supposed to represent 60,000,000 Thais.

Haven't you learned yet polls are a joke. What do you want to believe. Tell a pollster and he will come back with figures to match what you want to believe.

[tukkytuktuk]

Thaksin has played his cards wisely and there is no doubt that he will return to Thailand. Though, once he has returned what role will he play in Thailands politics? His sister is his puppet, will he take the top job or will it be a slow transition. How will this also affect freedom of the press? and if Thaksin is forgiven what happens to those who took part in the 2006 coup? Alot of emotions will arise. Will Thailand gain from this or will it just cause more trouble? One man still holds the cards, what happens is anyones guess. Good luck Thailand!

[Insight]

But I thought you said "Rest assured, that even the harshest of critics are safe to continue drinking at their local beer bar."...?

So we are safe, as long as we don't go highlighting specific (well known) examples...?

I wish you would be more consistent.

Your post is nonsensical. If you are referring to the video of the obviously unstable chap waving a stick on the street, it has no relevance to yours or anyone else's seating arrangements at your favourite watering hole.

My experience has been that the people offering unsolicited advice on how to fix things usually have no actual first hand experience nor have they ever met the people that make the decisions in this country. I suggest you attend one of the functions and meet some of the privy councillors and cabinet ministers. It's an eye opening experience. If you have your medals or national decorations, wear them.

So unless we've met the "people that make the decisions in this country", whether they be from the "amart" side, or from the consistently "controversial" Phua Thai side, we're in no position to comment...?

Might as well close down the forum and go back to our "watering holes" then. Can't wait to catch up with Jeff, personally....

[MILT]

The Face of PTP Pardon Thaskin Party Edited December 29, 2011 by MILT

[nurofiend]

There may be posters who are more knowledgeable about asylum cases in the UK. At a minimum, however, he would not have been free to move from country to country while asking for asylum.

A big question that has to be answered in many asylum cases is "Are you fleeing persecution, or are you fleeing prosecution?"

Simply being ousted by a coup would not necessarily be persecution. Thaksin would have to show that he was facing discrimination that was severe enough and cumulative enough to amount to persecution. If I were an adjudicating officer, I would not grant him asylum, but that is based on the knowledge that he has the financial resources to appeal the case for a more thorough legal review of his situation and the conditions that await him upon his return.

In my memory (may be I'm wrong) Thaksin had problems with the UK because he didn't pay taxes (as usual for him) when he sold his soccer team in England.

yeah, i think you're wrong

[gl555]

Tensions grow as Thailand awaits Thaksin's return

Lindsay Murdoch

BANGKOK: Thailand's government has returned the Thai passport of the fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and is preparing to welcome him from exile, stoking renewed political tensions in the country.

Mr Thaksin, a divisive figure, missed a self-imposed deadline to be in Bangkok for the wedding of his daughter Pinthongta two weeks ago.

But supporters of the telecommunications tycoon, who has lived in exile since 2008, believe he will be home within months.

From Dubai where he is living, Mr Thaksin insists Thailand is about to enter a period of reconciliation after six years of upheaval, but warns that ''merchants of conflict'' will try to thwart the peace efforts.

''Those who are not brutal and not self-centred had better get into the reconciliation mode now,'' he told the Bangkok Post.

Powerful forces, including Bangkok's political and military elite, strongly oppose Mr Thaksin's return, unless he serves at least part of a two-year prison sentence for alleged corruption.

But MPs in Yingluck Shinawatra's Puea Thai party are planning amnesties for people on both sides of the country's bitterly divided politics, a move that government critics say is ostensibly designed to allow her brother back into the country without him having to go to jail.

The government is also planning constitutional amendments that Mr Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup, says should protect democratically elected representatives from being forced from power.

Ms Yingluck won a landslide election in July on a promise to her millions of so-called ''red shirt'' supporters that she would bring her brother home, and analysts say she will face a backlash from her own supporters if she fails to fulfil the promise.

In November the government was forced to withdraw an endorsement of a royal pardon for Mr Thaksin after leaders of the royalist ''yellow shirt'' movement and the opposition vowed to strongly protest against it. [more...]

Full story: http://www.smh.com.a...1228-1pczt.html

-- smh.com.au 2011-12-29

Coup was downright dirty and wrong to begin with, wanna talk about 'corruption'. well look no further than the elite conspirators! duh! talk about undemocratic and adverting law. Taksin was getting thailand out of debt and making it a more favorable place for business, elite dont want that, they want public debt!!! know it!

They want to spend and pass on the bill to low/middle classes via TAXES! surprise surprise, oldest trick in the book to make others pay for your lavish bills. governement debt is paid by you and me, what a great deal huh? government loves us mak mak see?

Taksin did have a genuine want to help ordinary people and make thailand better to some degrees or so, despite what you think. Socialism is not the answer of course, but free market is. Yes Taksin may be corrupt, but all of thailand is pretty much corrupt , including officials in gov.

eleite yellows want debt, because the system here is debt loaned money system so debt keeps the gears turning, but causes inflation and we pay for it. But no debt is good for us too but may jeopordize the Rothschild debt fiat money system (in place around the world and is mathematically proven to always end in tears) in place now here. money loaned into existence.

Yet Taksin does have ties to european elite and did conspire to do things for thailand which could advert its sovereignty ... Hes a double edge sword and discussion is very long to weight out.

Hey let see what happens if he comes back. This ones a show to watch!

Thank you for that Red Shirt history lesson. You really ought to wipe stuff off your mouth and face.

[Scott]

A post making references to Hitler and a reply have been deleted.

[Buchholz]

He is already here.

Helicopter landed on a hospital Chon buri from Cambodia and took him and family to a location in the south. The Pilot said this is not the first time he has flown into Thailand and the Army is fully aware.

I'm sure you have alink for that rumour?

Anyway,I find it utterly strange that there has been no news or pictures from his daughters wedding which has happened almost 3 weeks ago.

It went off as scheduled...

Thaksin didn't make it to yesterday's nuptials....

[geriatrickid]

What polls the ones taken of a little over 1,000 supposed to represent 60,000,000 Thais.

Haven't you learned yet polls are a joke. What do you want to believe. Tell a pollster and he will come back with figures to match what you want to believe.

Had the polling results been negative, you would have been harping on them as an indication of the near collapse of the government. Although polls can give an indication of opinions at a certain point in time, the poll that counted was the election, and guess what? PTP won.

[SomTumTiger]

I don't think some foreigners realize how delicate the situation is in respect to some foreigners agitating on behalf of their preferred side in the dispute.

Pot, kettle black? Too easy, I'll let it pass. lol

Edited December 30, 2011 by SomTumTiger

[janverbeem]

He is already here.

Helicopter landed on a hospital Chon buri from Cambodia and took him and family to a location in the south. The Pilot said this is not the first time he has flown into Thailand and the Army is fully aware.

I'm sure you have alink for that rumour?

Anyway,I find it utterly strange that there has been no news or pictures from his daughters wedding which has happened almost 3 weeks ago.

It went off as scheduled...

Thaksin didn't make it to yesterday's nuptials....

You sure that isn't him right in the middle?

[animatic]

But I thought you said "Rest assured, that even the harshest of critics are safe to continue drinking at their local beer bar."...?

So we are safe, as long as we don't go highlighting specific (well known) examples...?

I wish you would be more consistent.

Your post is nonsensical. If you are referring to the video of the obviously unstable chap waving a stick on the street, it has no relevance to yours or anyone else's seating arrangements at your favourite watering hole.

My experience has been that the people offering unsolicited advice on how to fix things usually have no actual first hand experience nor have they ever met the people that make the decisions in this country. I suggest you attend one of the functions and meet some of the privy councillors and cabinet ministers. It's an eye opening experience. If you have your medals or national decorations, wear them.

He's perfectly clear. He's laughing at your posts.

[geriatrickid]

I don't think some foreigners realize how delicate the situation is in respect to some foreigners agitating on behalf of their preferred side in the dispute.

Pot, kettle black? Too easy, I'll let it pass. lol

On the contrary, my position is one consistent with that of respect for the local laws. I respect and defer to the elected lawful government. I do not support illegal activities.I have not participated in any redshirt activities. The closest i came to politics was when I was in Bangkok during the protests and was staying in a venue secured by the military and was billeted in the same wing as several of the generals and cabinet ministers. For security reasons no foreigners were allowed on the elevators with the generals and nor were foreigners allowed on either the floors above or below the officials. I did however have tea with a fascinating general who was quite pragmatic and quite likeable. He probably had a few redshirts kicked about.

[garrfeild]

He is already here.

Helicopter landed on a hospital Chon buri from Cambodia and took him and family to a location in the south. The Pilot said this is not the first time he has flown into Thailand and the Army is fully aware.

I am curious how you know this. I have a thousand baht bet with a friend that Thaksin will be back here within two months, and that he would sort of sneak in quietly and let it be known later that he was already here. That will avoid nasty demonstrations at the airport were he to do the " conquering hero" type of return....

or a bullet to the head maybe!

[geriatrickid]

He's perfectly clear. He's laughing at your posts.

Is that similar to the situation when you pass a crazy guy on the street and he starts laughing and then soils himself?

I suppose I should show compassion or empathy, shouldn't I?

[animatic]

He is already here.

Helicopter landed on a hospital Chon buri from Cambodia and took him and family to a location in the south. The Pilot said this is not the first time he has flown into Thailand and the Army is fully aware.

I'm sure you have alink for that rumour?

Anyway,I find it utterly strange that there has been no news or pictures from his daughters wedding which has happened almost 3 weeks ago.

It went off as scheduled...

Thaksin didn't make it to yesterday's nuptials....

Not square enough.

[animatic]

He's perfectly clear. He's laughing at your posts.

Is that similar to the situation when you pass a crazy guy on the street and he starts laughing and then soils himself?

I suppose I should show compassion or empathy, shouldn't I?

So you are saying Insight is a drunken lout, peeing himself in the street,

because he finds some of your posts laughable?

Classy!

Edited December 30, 2011 by animatic