Non Imm O Required Before Non Imm O-A (Retirement Visa) ?

[SunSeek01]

Hi Thaivisa Members,

I am in the U.S. and will be coming over the TH sometime in the next few months. I've been there about 8 times but only once longer than 30 days. For that I got the 60 + 30 day X 2 Visa, and it was kind of a hassle going to Cambodia. I went on visa runs both trips and I would have liked to take a tour in Cambo but I was the visa run.

Anyway, my plan now is to apply for a Non Imm O here in the U.S. at the Thai Embassy. My question is, say if I get the visa on February 1, but I don't go to Thailand until say February 20, I assume the first 90 days starts when I arrive. I am pretty sure this must be the case so sorry for a dumb question.

Also, is the Non Imm O for a year a requirement or prerequisite for eventually getting a Non Imm O-A (retirement) visa ? I don't know where I got this idea that maybe you have to do the Non Imm O for a year first.

Ideally, I'll get the Non Imm O here in the U.S., show up in TH, and get to processing the O-A retirement visa while I am on the Non Imm O. I guess that's how most people do it ? I know about the money requirements.

Thanks guys, Thai Visa is great!

[Maestro]

Yes, with a non-O visa you get permission to stay for 90 days starting from the date of your arrival in Thailand.

A non-immigrant visa is a prerequisite for an application of extension for the reason of retirement, retirement extension for short (better not call it an O-A visa when you apply for the extension at your local immigration office, to avoid confusion)

For the requirements for the retirement extension, see paragraph 2.22 of Police Order 777/2551 and of Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551.

If it is a non-O-A visa you want, not all consulates issue it. On the US mainland it is the consulates in Washington DC, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles that do it. Check with the consulate where you plan to apply for the exact requirements, as they may vary from one consulate to another. This web page on the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs lists the standard requirements.

[CharlieH]

Basic difference between O-A and and "extension based on Retirement", O-A requires the application plus Medical and Police reports to be completed in your home country, the 1 yr extension is done within Thailand and doesnt require those reports.

Edited January 13, 2012 by CharlieH

[steve187]

Visas are issued outside of Thailand only ( there are exceptions) and extensions of stay (to a non immigrant visa) based on retirement, or having thai wife, valid for a year are issued at local immigration offices to where you live.

good luck with the move

[TwentyBaht]

Would suggest that it is best to do the O-A in the US. I have twice used the Thai Consulate in Atlanta. Quick turn around, both times.

[lopburi3]

You can not obtain a non immigrant O-A from Atlanta or any other Honorary Consulate anymore. But it seems you can obtain a single entry non immigrant O visa again and later extend in Thailand as the OP is asking about doing. I suspect the Embassy and official consulates will only issue the long stay non immigrant O-A visa.

[NancyL]

The OP is a little confused. You apply for the O-A in your home country and then do 12-month extensions in Thailand. You do not ever need to have had a visa (or even have set foot in Thailand) before applying for an O-A. You will need to submit a medical form, criminal check and meet certain financial requirements, although the funds don't have to be in Thailand. Funds will have to be moved to Thailand eventually to support the 12-month visa extensions, unless you're proving financial worth by demonstrating a sufficient pension income. That income doesn't have to come into Thailand, although Immigration offices in Thailand may ask to see proof that you are bringing in funds to meet living expenses (otherwise they suspect you're earning income in Thailand)

You also can apply for a 90 day O visa in your home country. The 90-day period will commence upon entry to Thailand. Then, that visa can be extended for 12 months due to retirement in Thailand during the last 30 days of visa validity. You will need to meet the financial requirements, which will mean funds deposited in a Thai bank if the income method isn't used. Some people have delays in setting up bank accounts and transferring funds, which can be a problem. The money should be in Thailand for at least 60 days prior to the first visa extension, 90 days for subsequent visa extensions.

The further complicate understanding, there is another route for person from a (tourist) visa-exempt country like the U.S. to obtain a "retirement visa". Enter the country on visa exempt status (i.e. just show up with your passport) and immediately open a bank account and deposit 800,000 baht (or get an income verification letter from your embassy/consulate). During that 30 day visa exempt period, go to the local Immigration office and request a 90-day O visa for the purpose of setting up retirement. They'll want to see that you're on the path to meeting the financial requirements, but obviously they don't expect the funds to be aged. During the final 30 days of that 90 day O visa, execute the process for a 12-month extension due to retirement, as outlined in the previous paragraph. Not every Immigration office will do this "two-step" process. Chiang Mai will. Other offices may send you to Bangkok.

The net result of any of these three methods will be a 12-month permission to stay in Thailand due to retirement.

[Jingthing]

...

The net result of any of these three methods will be a 12-month permission to stay in Thailand due to retirement.

Great coverage of a topic that almost always confusing to people new to the process.

[Jingthing]

Visas are issued outside of Thailand only ( there are exceptions) and extensions of stay (to a non immigrant visa) based on retirement, or having thai wife, valid for a year are issued at local immigration offices to where you live.

good luck with the move

As NancyL pointed out, it is actually quite a common option for people going into the retirement extension system to start without any non-immigrant visa obtained outside of Thailand, because O visas (not O-A) CAN be obtained in Thailand as the first step for such people. Its one option of different options available. I reckon that adds to the confusion as there really is not only one path to the goal. Edited January 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[Sateev]

Basic difference between O-A and and "extension based on Retirement", O-A requires the application plus Medical and Police reports to be completed in your home country, the 1 yr extension is done within Thailand and doesnt require those reports.

Also, the O-A allows you to stay in Thailand for nearly two years, WITHOUT having to deposit money in Thailand. The medical and police reports are child's play (unless you have elephantiasis, or are on the lam). Hmm, maybe that's why so many posters poo-poo the O-A...

[Jingthing]

Basic difference between O-A and and "extension based on Retirement", O-A requires the application plus Medical and Police reports to be completed in your home country, the 1 yr extension is done within Thailand and doesnt require those reports.

Also, the O-A allows you to stay in Thailand for nearly two years, WITHOUT having to deposit money in Thailand. The medical and police reports are child's play (unless you have elephantiasis, or are on the lam). Hmm, maybe that's why so many posters poo-poo the O-A...

For some people, the medical report can prove expensive. Such as Americans without a personal relation with a doctor. Some doctors will insist on doing all the implied clinical tests for ethical/ca-ching reasons, you guess.

A disadvantage of the O-A which yes if it is a MULTI-entry you can stretch for two years before etpending at immigration in Thailand is that if the financial requirements are raised while you are still using the O-A two years you will NOT be eligible for any grandfathering of the old lower requirements. Sure, everyone says it won't happen to them, but someday ...

Edited January 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[SunSeek01]

I'm reading and re-reading all this. Thanks for the great info everyone. So what would be the advantage to me, if any, of getting a Non Imm O back here in the States ? I remember when I got the double entry tourist visa by going to Cambo (60 + 30 X 2) thinking I should have done the Non Imm O back home.

I guess the advantage is you start off straight away with 60 + 30 without having to depart Thailand? Thanks again - Sunseek01

[lopburi3]

The advantage of getting a non immigrant O single entry over a tourist visa is that it can be extended in-country for retirement in one step during the last 30 days of the 90 day stay it provides without the additional 2k conversion expense or paperwork or the extra 30 day extension expense of a tourist visa. The 90 days allows plenty of time to set up bank account for the 60 day seasoning period.

[NancyL]

I'm reading and re-reading all this. Thanks for the great info everyone. So what would be the advantage to me, if any, of getting a Non Imm O back here in the States ? I remember when I got the double entry tourist visa by going to Cambo (60 + 30 X 2) thinking I should have done the Non Imm O back home.

I guess the advantage is you start off straight away with 60 + 30 without having to depart Thailand? Thanks again - Sunseek01

You never have to leave Thailand with any of the three routes to a "retirement visa" that I outlined in my previous post.

You will have to leave the country to turn a multi-entry O-A visa into a 2 year visa. It will be extended another 12 months whenever you leave the country during its initial 12 month validity.

Some people may have no problems with the police check, medical form and proof of financial worth if applying for an O-A visa in the U. S. My husband had many problems with this and he is healthy, has never even had a speeding ticket (or overdue library book) and had way more than 800,000 baht in his 401K accounts. The doctor insisted on testing for every disease on the medical form, the law enforcement didn't seem to know how to get a police report on someone who isn't a criminal and the management company of the 401K said the letter verifying his account balance had to be done by their home office, after submitting a notarized request!

[hml367]

To the OP...

In my opinion it is easier to get the O-A in the US. However, you should check with whichever Thai Embassy/Consulate office you are going to apply.... they are not all the same and the person looking at your paperwork can ask for different things. Some consulates, and especially Honorary Consulates, are occasionally told not to issue certain types of visas.

The Thai Embassies in the US have the requirements listed on their web sites, and it is still a good idea to ask them first what you will need because they can ask for whatever they want to assure themselves they are issuing the visa for the correct purposes.

If you have the O-A when you arrive, they will stamp you as allowed to stay for 1 year from the date of entry. Then you don't have to go through the toil of extending the "allowed to stay" time limit for about 1 year.

You should look at the Royal Thai Police Immigration Department web site. The information is very helpful there and I have found it to be accurate. Then you can work with the place you are going to apply for the visa with some knowledge.

As I said, if you have the O-A visa when you arrive you should have less trouble in the first year and you will have time to find out more of how things work at the Immigration office you will be using in Thailand. No matter what you will have to report your residence location every 90 days to an Immigration office.

I made a Non-Immigrant O-A visa in less than one day when I initially did it in the U.S. Get some knowledge from the officials (Royal Thai Police Immigration Department) and from the place you are going to apply for the visa and it should go more smoothly. What has been given to you on this forum, including my post, is nothing more than peoples' experience or maybe not even that. Many posts have good information, but you should verify it first with the offices you will work with.

MSPain

Royal Thai Consulate Los Angeles http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=34

Edited January 15, 2012 by hml367

[Langsuan Man]

To the OP...

In my opinion it is easier to get the O-A in the US. However, you should check with whichever Thai Embassy/Consulate office you are going to apply.... they are not all the same and the person looking at your paperwork can ask for different things. Some consulates, and especially Honorary Consulates, are occasionally told not to issue certain types of visas.

The Thai Embassies in the US have the requirements listed on their web sites, and it is still a good idea to ask them first what you will need because they can ask for whatever they want to assure themselves they are issuing the visa for the correct purposes.

If you have the O-A when you arrive, they will stamp you as allowed to stay for 1 year from the date of entry. Then you don't have to go through the toil of extending the "allowed to stay" time limit for about 1 year.

You should look at the Royal Thai Police Immigration Department web site. The information is very helpful there and I have found it to be accurate. Then you can work with the place you are going to apply for the visa with some knowledge.

As I said, if you have the O-A visa when you arrive you should have less trouble in the first year and you will have time to find out more of how things work at the Immigration office you will be using in Thailand. No matter what you will have to report your residence location every 90 days to an Immigration office.

I made a Non-Immigrant O-A visa in less than one day when I initially did it in the U.S. Get some knowledge from the officials (Royal Thai Police Immigration Department) and from the place you are going to apply for the visa and it should go more smoothly. What has been given to you on this forum, including my post, is nothing more than peoples' experience or maybe not even that. Many posts have good information, but you should verify it first with the offices you will work with.

MSPain

Royal Thai Consulate Los Angeles http://www.thaiconsu...aspx?link_id=34

If you use the Consulates in Los Angeles or Chicago you will have to have all your documents notarized, which can be a PITA.

Thai Embassy in Washington and Consulate in New York have no such requirement , only the correct number of copies

[Jingthing]

I don't like suggestions that one path or another is universally better and/or easier. It really depends on a number of details about specific applicants. I feel people retiring in Thailand are best served by educating themselves on the advantages, disadvantages, and mechanics of the different options and make a CUSTOMIZED choice. Best for them.

[oldgeezer]

Everyone has an opinion. Here's mine.

Keep it simple. Get 90 day visa from U.S. When in Thailand, apply for retirement visa. Either deposit 800K baht or if 65K baht monthly income, get affadavit signed in U.S. Embassy.

Take required paperwork to Immigration. Get retirement extension. Forget about O,A.etc. Keep it simple.

Edited January 15, 2012 by oldgeezer

[Maestro]

Everyone has an opinion. Here's mine.

Keep it simple. Get 90 day visa from U.S. When in Thailand, apply for retirement visa. Either deposit 800K baht or if 65K baht monthly income, get affadavit signed in U.S. Embassy.

Take required paperwork to Immigration. Get retirement extension. Forget about O,A.etc. Keep it simple.

He can't get the retirement visa (non-O-A visa) in Thailand, but he can get the retirement extension from his local immigration office.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The other thing the OP should be aware of is the difference between the regular official Thai embassy/consulates in the U.S., like DC, NY, Chicago and L.A., vs. the various honorary consulates in places like Houston, Portland and elsewhere.

Depending on where a person is living in the U.S., they may have an honorary consulate closer to them, and many folks find the honorary consulates to be more convenient and more accommodating to deal with.

IMHO, even for a healthy and clean record person, dealing with the medical clearance and police clearance in the U.S. for applying for an O-A visa can indeed be a hassle and unduely expensive. The official Embassy/consulates will do the O-As, while the honorary ones generally won't.

But the honorary consulates will do multi entry tourist visas, which then can be converted to retirement extensions (without any medical report and police report hassles) once inside Thailand at the BKK Immigration Office, Chiang Mai and some others.

[Jingthing]

...

But the honorary consulates will do multi entry tourist visas, which then can be converted to retirement extensions (without any medical report and police report hassles) once inside Thailand at the BKK Immigration Office, Chiang Mai and some others.

It used to be the honorary consulates would grant single entry O visas to people over 50 with the reason something like considering retirement in Thailand, etc. but then the news was they had stopped accepting that as a reason. But I haven't heard of any RECENT updates in policies about that. For those wanting to start the retirement extension in Thailand having a single entry O on entry would avoid the need to do a change of visa status in Thailand. Especially useful for those setting in areas with Thai immigration offices that don't do the change of status step who would need to do that in Bangkok (or Laos/Malaysia).

[lopburi3]

In US they provided O-A visa issue but that has ceased and believe they can now provide single entry non immigrant O visas for those checking if they may want to extend. As said if available it is a logical first step for many people.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I looked at the Portland Honorary Consulate web site this morning, prior to posting...

They now say O-A's can only be issued by the Embassy or three official consulates...

They still talk about issuing straight Os...but only in the following situations:

O (Other) - Marriage certificate and proof of spouse's Thai citizenship, Letter of invitation from volunteer organization in Thailand, proof of condo or home ownership.

http://www.thai-or.com/

I believe that's different than what they've listed in the past.

[Jingthing]

I looked at the Portland Honorary Consulate web site this morning, prior to posting...

They now say O-A's can only be issued by the Embassy or three official consulates...

They still talk about issuing straight Os...but only in the following situations:

O (Other) - Marriage certificate and proof of spouse's Thai citizenship, Letter of invitation from volunteer organization in Thailand, proof of condo or home ownership.

http://www.thai-or.com/

I believe that's different than what they've listed in the past.

Not at all surprising. When means you can presume they probably would not approve "exploring retirement" as a valid reason to grant a single entry O. On the other hand, could it hurt to ask?

[NancyL]

It definitely wouldn't hurt to ask. We have friends who obtained O visas in Denver with the reason they were "exploring retirement" in Sept or October, so any policy changes must be more recent. They asked in person, if that makes a difference.

[Jingthing]

It definitely wouldn't hurt to ask. We have friends who obtained O visas in Denver with the reason they were "exploring retirement" in Sept or October, so any policy changes must be more recent. They asked in person, if that makes a difference.

Surely it can vary between offices and policies can change over time. Yes, people, do ask!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I agree... Find the closest honorary consulate to your home, check their web site if they have one, and then follow-up with a phone call. Getting on the best and right track from the outset is worth the small investment of effort.

[SunSeek01]

Thanks all for pointing out that the Non Imm O is not an automatic thing (as I thought it would be). I probably will apply for a Non Imm O and see what happens.

I am over 50 of course so maybe that will work in my favor and I can tell them I'm exploring retirement if it comes up. From all I've read here that would be the most favorable to me.

[SunSeek01]

I have inquired via email regarding a Non Imm O with the reason of exploring retirement. I don't know if I'll get any reply, it is a 6 hour drive to the Consulate in Miami.

Does anyone know, if this were to work out, do they give you the visa right then and there or do they mail it to you later. If they mail it, do you have leave your passport?

This assumes all the documentation and payments are good. Thanks all for the wealth of info! - Sunseek01

[wayned]

You should be able to apply by mail and not have to travel to the consulate. There have been reports that the honary consulates in Houston and Portland are very friendly. I've dealt with Houston on behalf of someone and they were very friendly, efficient and fast. I'm attaching details if you want ro contact them.

Visa application procedures , Houston Texas.doc