Funeral Etiquette

[lawling]

Sorry to raise such a sombre issue but I wonder if anyone can offer guidance in relation to deaths and funerals.

A former girlfriend with whom I remain on good terms is back home caring for her mother who is terminally ill and not expected to live much longer. I met the old lady a couple of times and got on well with her, so I feel that I ought to pay my respects somehow when she dies. However, I'm not sure what is appropriate and I certainly don't want to intrude where I wouldn't be welcome or where my presence might be an embarrassment to the family. When I visited the village previously, half the neighbours seemed to turn up at the house to see the farang and I would want anything to avoid anything like that at a time when the family have other things to contend with. Hopefully, I'm old news now. If I go, should it be to the cremation ceremony or are there other possibilities? Should I take along a gift, like flowers or, the inevitable money or what? Any advice would be welcomed.

[BambinA]

Should I take along a gift, like flowers or, the inevitable money or what?

money ..

[rishi]

... I'm not sure what is appropriate and I certainly don't want to intrude where I wouldn't be welcome or where my presence might be an embarrassment to the family....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry. Assuming you dress and behave decently - that Thai family would be very un-Thai, if they didn't appreciate your visit ... (and a gift of the kind that is best handed over in an envelope - to be opened later)

[zzap]

Dress in black or dark colours, and money in an envelope.

The funeral rites actually stretch over 3 days, but if you're pressed for time, the burning and/or evening prayers by the monks seem to be the ones to attend.

No, you won't be viewed as an 'intruder', they will appreciate you paying respect by your presence. As a guest, you're unlikely you'll make any embarassing 'mistakes', just follow what everyone else is doing, sit when they sit and fold your hands when they do so...

[lopburi3]

I would clear it with the ex GF if you can but there is normally 3 or more evening services at about 6:30 or so that only last an hour or two where prayers will be said and often food provided. It is customary to provide an envelope with a donation at this time. Being a rich farang 1,000 baht might be in line with expectations but most will probably be much less. I would not worry too much about the color you dress but would try to keep trousers dark and dark or white or blue shirt but it is really quite informal for normal folks. If you do want to present a gift the quilt type blankets sold for that occasion is probably the best as they will be divided up amount the family later and provide a long term help if a poor family.

If you attend the cremation you would be expected to join everyone in placing paper flower under the body as symbolic fuel. This normally is walk up side stairs, place flowers that have been handed out below coffin and walk down front stairs and at bottom often receive a momento from family to keep.

There have been good rundowns posted here and elsewhere if you want to do a search. But it is really very informal.

Edited December 2, 2005 by lopburi3

[Ned]

These are not sombre affairs. Just go along with an envelope if you want, sit and eat, walk to the crematorium, sip your coke and ice and if you're called upon by the family to do anything , just copy everyone. No need to look or feel sad....unless that's how you feel.People will think you're weird if you come on with all that stuff. Recently I attended a funeral in CM and the crowd observed a minute's silence for the deceased. All very dignified but the first time I'd seen that. The key thing is to remain dignified....and you don't have to look and act sad to do that. That's what I reckon anyway. As Ringo said: Act naturally.

[leisurely]

In disguise here. We attended a funeral last year (2 children killed in the tsunami) and were videoed and photographed. Not sure how normal or regular that is, but be prepared. Also, what struck me was teh large number of dogs wandering in the sala.......too British I should say.

[Maestro]

Dress in black or dark colours

Black or dark trousers, white shirt seems to be the norm.

[Morden]

I can offer you some tips based on my experiences at a 'burn' in July. Details will vary from place to place and family to family but the principles are the same.

I'm sure that you will be very welcome but, as you are an ex. boyfriend, it would be as well to announce in advance your intention be present.

As others have said, wear dark clothes, preferably black. Dress to the same standard as the other men. If its a wealthy family, they may dress up a bit. Otherwise, the men will be in the darkest version they have of their everyday clothes.

The three days pass off in a more or less cheerful way. People eat and talk and some of the men drink too much. When the monks chant, you keep respectfully quiet. The only tears that I saw were at the viewing of the body just before it went into the fire. Remember that Thais will celebrate the life rather than mourn the death.

There's the music, of course. It's as loud as it is for a wedding!

Don't worry about a big turnout just to see you. Most of the village will be there already. You might consider arriving the day before the burning so that things are flowing nicely before you arrive - unless you want to be there for the whole thing. It's unlikely that you will be needed as a shoulder to cry on. Families are very close and everyone will be taken care of.

Some of the women in the family will be at the wat prior to the funeral so you might want to make sure that whomever you want to be with will be at the house or wherever the body will be kept.

Boys in the family may become monks for the day. They aren't allowed to eat until the burning is over so don't volunteer!

The simple coffin is kept in an ornate metal box and surrounded by flowers, incense and candles. Even in front of that people will behave normally.

You will be respected for attending and someone will guide you through the whole thing. Basically, just follow the others. It's a slow process so you won't be taken unawares. I don't think that flowers from you would be necessary but have a few Baht notes handy in case it's suggested that you contribute.

And don't worry! It will pass off very easily and you will be impressed by the whole thing. Something else to tell your Grandchildren about one day!

[Patex]

Long(!) dark trousers, white or also dark shirt, envelope (write your name on it) with money in it, how much? "up to you", maybe a wreath with your name on it (available in every flowershop incl. a stand), acting normal, joking ok but no loud laugh and of course not about the deceased (jokes out of place when the deceased was a child or died unexpected/was the supporter of the family). Sometimes fotos in front of the coffin will be taken, don't stand, sit down like the others and make a sad face.

Don't forget: you are on a funeral, this includes also the dead! One of the first things you should do is to pay your respect to the deceased. How to do?

Light up one candle and stick it to the others in front of the coffin, then you take one incensestick and light it up on "your" candle you make a wai with the incensestick in direction of the dead (don"t forget some good and greatful thoughts towards the deceased) then you stick the incensestick to the others return and wai in headhight again in direction of the coffin, bow with your waiing hands to the ground let your hands in the waing position touch the ground and touch them slightly with your forehead go back in the upright position also take your still waiing hands back about mouthhight and end your wai. This all in sitting kneeling position.

Sorry for my english, perhaps it is someone here who can explain the "wai sob"- thing a little better

Regards, Patex

[Johpa]

And for an additional ethinic experience hang out with the guys at the cremation site once the procession guests have left. They are always provide with copious amounts of Thai whiskey whilst they feed the fires.

[Pudgimelon]

Should I take along a gift, like flowers or, the inevitable money or what? Any advice would be welcomed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just show up with a wooden case strapped around your neck full of lottery tickets and perhaps a radio.

You'll fit right in.

[Pudgimelon]

However, I'm not sure what is appropriate and I certainly don't want to intrude where I wouldn't be welcome or where my presence might be an embarrassment to the family. When I visited the village previously, half the neighbours seemed to turn up at the house to see the farang and I would want anything to avoid anything like that at a time when the family have other things to contend with. Hopefully, I'm old news now. If I go, should it be to the cremation ceremony or are there other possibilities?  Should I take along a gift, like flowers or, the inevitable money or what? Any advice would be welcomed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seriously though, here's my advice:

I went to one Thai funeral and was a bit shocked by the casual atmosphere. But then my wife explained to me that "funerals" or wakes generally go on for a few days and the family's personal grieving time is usually in the first day or two. After that, it's more about people in the community or distant relatives coming to pay their respects and chit-chat.

Dressing up is nice, but not required (i saw people in shorts and flip-flops). But you should dress up. Nice black pants and a short-sleeve button down shirt or polo shirt would be appropriate. A suit is NOT necessary. In fact, you'd look weird wearing one.

So if I were you, after the woman dies, just ask your ex about visiting and what would be a good day to come. You can phrase it so that you want to know when and how long the wake is, and then pick one of the last days and ask her, "would that be OK?" That way, you'll avoid feeling uncomfortable showing up on a day that's mostly a family-only day. You can come on one of the "general public days" and then it won't matter if you're the center of attention, because the family will already have done their private grieving.

Don't worry about bringing money or gifts. That would probably be a bit tacky. Ask your ex if there is something (flowers? incense? an offering to the monks?) that she thinks you should bring and that would be enough.

Also, I know how you feel about that whole "center of attention" thing, but don't put too much into it. When I went up to my wife's cousin's becoming-a-monk ceremony, I kinda worried about taking the spotlight away from him on his big day, but he didn't seem to mind at all. He still had plenty of attention and he probably thought it was kind of cool to have a farang at his ceremony. Made it "special" when compared to other ceremonies his friends and family have had.

Edited December 2, 2005 by Pudgimelon

[Pudgimelon]

Sorry for my english, perhaps it is someone here who can explain the "wai sob"- thing a little better

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pretty good description, although I've seen people open their palms and press them to the ground when they are kneeling forward too. Perhaps its a regional variation.

Best bet would be to hang back for a bit, watch what other people do and then copy them. Ask someone to accompany you and show you what to do so you don't do anything unintentionally stupid (like blowing out the fire on the incense stick after you light it, that's bad! shake it out, don't blow on it).

Don't worry too much. As long as you make a close approximation, people will appreciate the effort and forgive the little faux pas.

[lawling]

Sorry for my english, perhaps it is someone here who can explain the "wai sob"- thing a little better

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pretty good description, although I've seen people open their palms and press them to the ground when they are kneeling forward too. Perhaps its a regional variation.

Best bet would be to hang back for a bit, watch what other people do and then copy them. Ask someone to accompany you and show you what to do so you don't do anything unintentionally stupid (like blowing out the fire on the incense stick after you light it, that's bad! shake it out, don't blow on it).

Don't worry too much. As long as you make a close approximation, people will appreciate the effort and forgive the little faux pas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many thanks to all of you who have taken the trouble to write. Your advice has been invaluable and is greatly appreciated.

[mumbojumbo]

The first Thai funeral i went to, we were approached when leaving at 10 pm and told that if we stuck around till 12, the dice game and video X movies would begin then

[sbk]

Do give money, in an envelope. It is expected and helps cover the costs of the funeral. It isn't necessary to give alot as this isn't like a wedding (where the money will go to the young couple) but it does help to pay some.

I think the idea of informing your ex that you would like to attend is a good idea. The best day to go, as an ex, would be the last day, cremation is usually around 1pm. We usually go about noonish for the last prayers and then the paper flower --give money and then leave. The later ceremonies are private family affairs.

[Patex]

lawling,

is your Ex in a new relationship? If so, I would suggest visit her and her mother now for a last time and stay away from the funeral.

When the inevitable happens you can send money and she will push it in an envelope with your name on it, so the relatives will see your respect. Send a little more and she can order a wreath in your name so the whole village could see your respect.

Patex

[lawling]

lawling,

is your Ex in a new relationship? If so, I would suggest visit her and her mother now for a last time and stay away from the funeral.

When the inevitable happens you can send money and she will push it in an envelope with your name on it, so the relatives will see your respect. Send a little more and she can order a wreath in your name so the whole village could see your respect.

Patex

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Patex. Good thinking. She is, indeed, in a new relationship, although he has to be away a lot and may not be able to make it for the funeral. I'll see how things develop and maybe a final visit like you suggest would be the answer.