Water Projects To Be Sped Up

[Lite Beer]

Water projects to be sped up

The Nation on Sunday

BANGKOK:-- Officials focusing on the viability of designated floodways; coordination at provincial level is key, says premier

The government is accelerating its water-resources management and flood-prevention projects worth a combined Bt350 billion to ensure that the country is ready to cope with this year's rainy season, according to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

"We're working on details of the plans at the provincial level to ensure consistency and interconnectedness," she said.

"We're also making sure that public money is used properly and that the floodways will actually work when the water is there. This means we need accurate calculations and forecasts on the amount of water in the major dams, the amount of rainfall and the amount of water that will be left in low-lying areas," she said.

"This year's plan will be comprehensive from the upstream areas down to Bangkok, with the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration [bMA] and the armed forces helping the central government to implement flood-prevention plans," Yingluck said during her weekly national address.

The premier will visit several upstream, mid-stream and downstream provinces from February 13-17 to review progress in related water-management and flood-prevention plans.

Yingluck said the government's policy was to prevent flooding in high-value economic areas and industrial estates.

During the floods late last year, more than 1,000 factories in seven industrial estates in Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani provinces were submerged, causing massive damage to the country's supply chains for the automotive, electronic and other industries.

The overall damage was estimated to be Bt1.4 trillion.

During the February 13-17 trip, the premier will also ensure dikes and dams damaged by last year's floods are fixed and ready for the upcoming rainy season.

"Next, we will find out if areas designated as floodways are really practical, as some places may be occupied by local people. In such cases, we need to find new routes for the flood water to flow downstream, while minimising the impacts," the prime minister said.

"This year is very crucial and we need co-operation from all parties concerned. We're worried foreign investors will leave Thailand for other countries. If they relocate their factories outside Thailand, it will be very difficult to get them back," she said.

Of the overall Bt350-billion budget, an initial Bt12 billion has been allocated to urgent and short-term projects.

Yingluck said Deputy Prime Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit will work with the BMA on projects for Bangkok, while the armed forces will be responsible for dredging about 300 canals so flood water can flow more efficiently during the rainy season.

Earlier, the Yingluck government was criticised for failing to speed up its water-management and flood-prevention plans ahead of this year's rainy season.

The lack of details on its mega-infrastructure projects worth a combined Bt350 billion for implementation over the next one to two years was also cited as a sign of incompetence.

On the emergency decree to transfer the Bt1.14 trillion public debt from the 1997 financial crisis to the Bank of Thailand, Yingluck said the law was necessary because the government had to spend a lot of money managing water resources and preventing floods.

The Opposition and a group of senators have petitioned the Constitution Court to rule on whether the decree meets the legal criteria for an emergency, and whether it is constitutional.

Opponents say the debt transfer should be handled by a bill for Parliament to consider and enact into law, not an emergency decree, since it has nothing directly to do with last year's floods.

Yingluck said the government had two choices: passing the huge debt to the central bank or raising taxes.

-- The Nation 2011-02-05

[mogoso]

The flooding broke the poorly made dam of the lake that touches a corner of my wife's land. A sign was put up stating that a replacement dam would be erected in 2013. They completed work on a beautiful new dam with proper spillways that will serve wondefully. The lake level will be a few feet lower, but it's filling up as I type. Kudos to the quickness of the Government agency for their fast work

Edited February 5, 2012 by mogoso

[Pib]

Does sped up mean finally started?

For example, has anyone seen the armed forces dredging canals in Bangkok since the start of the year? Maybe they have started and I just haven't seen them.

[ResX]

I don't know where I got it wrong. The total storage capacity for all flood control dams and structures in Thailand is 75billion cubic meters. I'm not sure how much of the storage capacity belongs to Choa Pharaya catchment. Last year the flood of such magnitude can be stopped if 15-20billion cubic meters could have been captured and well regulated for at least 3 months. Therefore, it is very likely the main root cause for last year's flood is ineffective flood control strategy was adopted (if there was one). If the Water Management auntorithies had prepared all the dams and structures so that they have lower than 75% filled, the flood have not be that big.

Then, why they need TBH 350billion? I doubt Thailand needs that much.

It is natural tendency for any government to blame something that they don't have as scapegoats after the occurences of the major catastropic events. To them that is the way to hide their weaknesses. To average citizens it means, they would have been be cheated twice. Ultimately their governments will allocate huge resources to develop the structures or the systems that are not needed. Who are going to pay for that? Obviously all citizens, directly or indirectly.....

[whybother]

I don't know where I got it wrong. The total storage capacity for all flood control dams and structures in Thailand is 75billion cubic meters. I'm not sure how much of the storage capacity belongs to Choa Pharaya catchment. Last year the flood of such magnitude can be stopped if 15-20billion cubic meters could have been captured and well regulated for at least 3 months. Therefore, it is very likely the main root cause for last year's flood is ineffective flood control strategy was adopted (if there was one). If the Water Management auntorithies had prepared all the dams and structures so that they have lower than 75% filled, the flood have not be that big.

Then, why they need TBH 350billion? I doubt Thailand needs that much.

It is natural tendency for any government to blame something that they don't have as scapegoats after the occurences of the major catastropic events. To them that is the way to hide their weaknesses. To average citizens it means, they would have been be cheated twice. Ultimately their governments will allocate huge resources to develop the structures or the systems that are not needed. Who are going to pay for that? Obviously all citizens, directly or indirectly.....

"If the Water Management auntorithies had prepared all the dams and structures so that they have lower than 75% filled, the flood have not be that big."

Weren't the dams at 60% full at the start of the wet season last year?

[nong38]

I hope they dont forget the people in the north and central areas who had a rough time last year, not much in the way of factories and money boosting eneterprises byt they are Thais and they deserve to be protected better than the last attempt. Water management starts at the top of the country and ends at the bottom, proper releases of water at the right time would be a start, make sure the dams are up to the job would help.

Take care of all the people.

[473geo]

I don't know where I got it wrong. The total storage capacity for all flood control dams and structures in Thailand is 75billion cubic meters. I'm not sure how much of the storage capacity belongs to Choa Pharaya catchment. Last year the flood of such magnitude can be stopped if 15-20billion cubic meters could have been captured and well regulated for at least 3 months. Therefore, it is very likely the main root cause for last year's flood is ineffective flood control strategy was adopted (if there was one). If the Water Management auntorithies had prepared all the dams and structures so that they have lower than 75% filled, the flood have not be that big.

Then, why they need TBH 350billion? I doubt Thailand needs that much.

It is natural tendency for any government to blame something that they don't have as scapegoats after the occurences of the major catastropic events. To them that is the way to hide their weaknesses. To average citizens it means, they would have been be cheated twice. Ultimately their governments will allocate huge resources to develop the structures or the systems that are not needed. Who are going to pay for that? Obviously all citizens, directly or indirectly.....

The funding should be returned by continuing foreign investment, paying wages which in turn allow the country to repay the cost through taxes. The government is correct in restoring the confidence of foreign investors and the general public alike. To gamble on not creating effective control is playing with the lives of people, ask Buchholz, he will tell you exactly how many died last year. To gamble on not creating effective flood control is also putting at risk foreign investment, without foreign investment work will become scarce, the minimum wage will become static and the citizens will suffer. Let us hope this government is not stalled by legal wrangling. and allowed to make the life saving changes, and support the economic future of Thailand, while also providing employment for many, as they strive to remove the flood legacy they inherited.

Edited February 5, 2012 by 473geo

[Bagwan]

Water projects to be sped up

sped (spd)

v.

A past tense and a past participle of speed.

.

sped [spɛd]

vb

a past tense and past participle of speed

HTF can you accelerate something in the past? Oops! I forgot this is Lala land where everybody is going to be rich. Would the Thaksin cabal please hold their breaths until this is achieved?

I wonder if the Nation sub-editors went to the same schools as Yingluck.

The word that they misplaced is 'speeded' up. but a quality newspaper would have used the word 'accelerate'. Too many syllables for the Nation I suppose.

[rubl]

The last sentence of the OP "Yingluck said the government had two choices: passing the huge debt to the central bank or raising taxes." raises questions. Especially when you look at the BoT page on the FIDF history

On Aug. 11, 2008 whereas Deposit Protection Agency Law is in effect, the role of FIDF to guarantee depositor comes to an end. The Deposit Protection Agency becomes the new organization to be responsible for deposit guarantee. FIDF's main mission is now focusing on managing assets and liabilities to liquidation and finally closes down the operation. However, within 4 years period if there is no other law concerning financial assistance to financial institutions being introduced. FIDF has to act under Article 19 of the Bank of Thailand Act (No. 4) B.E.2551 to financially assist insolvent financial institutions. The financial assistances must be approved by the government and the government will have to absorb the cost of assistance, if any, to FIDF.

http://www.bot.or.th/ENGLISH/FINANCIALINSTITUTIONSDEVELOPMENTFUND/ABOUT_FIDF/Pages/History.aspx

We taxpayers are duped again methinks

[473geo]

The last sentence of the OP "Yingluck said the government had two choices: passing the huge debt to the central bank or raising taxes." raises questions. Especially when you look at the BoT page on the FIDF history

On Aug. 11, 2008 whereas Deposit Protection Agency Law is in effect, the role of FIDF to guarantee depositor comes to an end. The Deposit Protection Agency becomes the new organization to be responsible for deposit guarantee. FIDF's main mission is now focusing on managing assets and liabilities to liquidation and finally closes down the operation. However, within 4 years period if there is no other law concerning financial assistance to financial institutions being introduced. FIDF has to act under Article 19 of the Bank of Thailand Act (No. 4) B.E.2551 to financially assist insolvent financial institutions. The financial assistances must be approved by the government and the government will have to absorb the cost of assistance, if any, to FIDF.

http://www.bot.or.th...es/History.aspx

We taxpayers are duped again methinks

Not really, the majority of government expenditure is raised from the population in some form or other, the only duped people are those who fail to acknowledge this is the case. My understanding is the transfer of the debt would raise an expectation for the BOT to repay from profits, the profits may well be generated by increasing charges, interest rates etc, but would not be direct taxes.

[rubl]

The last sentence of the OP "Yingluck said the government had two choices: passing the huge debt to the central bank or raising taxes." raises questions. Especially when you look at the BoT page on the FIDF history

On Aug. 11, 2008 whereas Deposit Protection Agency Law is in effect, the role of FIDF to guarantee depositor comes to an end. The Deposit Protection Agency becomes the new organization to be responsible for deposit guarantee. FIDF's main mission is now focusing on managing assets and liabilities to liquidation and finally closes down the operation. However, within 4 years period if there is no other law concerning financial assistance to financial institutions being introduced. FIDF has to act under Article 19 of the Bank of Thailand Act (No. 4) B.E.2551 to financially assist insolvent financial institutions. The financial assistances must be approved by the government and the government will have to absorb the cost of assistance, if any, to FIDF.

http://www.bot.or.th...es/History.aspx

We taxpayers are duped again methinks

Not really, the majority of government expenditure is raised from the population in some form or other, the only duped people are those who fail to acknowledge this is the case. My understanding is the transfer of the debt would raise an expectation for the BOT to repay from profits, the profits may well be generated by increasing charges, interest rates etc, but would not be direct taxes.

The 1.4 trillion THB moved back from FIDF to BoT is mostly a left over from the 1997 financial crisis. It relates to business and debt at book values at that time. Usefull items have mostly been sold. To expect BoT to make much profit on this seems wishful thinking at the best. I fail to see how this doubtful move will restore foreign investers confidence in Thailand and it's government and how this will enable the government to borrow more at an improved rate. Window dressing ?

[473geo]

The last sentence of the OP "Yingluck said the government had two choices: passing the huge debt to the central bank or raising taxes." raises questions. Especially when you look at the BoT page on the FIDF history

On Aug. 11, 2008 whereas Deposit Protection Agency Law is in effect, the role of FIDF to guarantee depositor comes to an end. The Deposit Protection Agency becomes the new organization to be responsible for deposit guarantee. FIDF's main mission is now focusing on managing assets and liabilities to liquidation and finally closes down the operation. However, within 4 years period if there is no other law concerning financial assistance to financial institutions being introduced. FIDF has to act under Article 19 of the Bank of Thailand Act (No. 4) B.E.2551 to financially assist insolvent financial institutions. The financial assistances must be approved by the government and the government will have to absorb the cost of assistance, if any, to FIDF.

http://www.bot.or.th...es/History.aspx

We taxpayers are duped again methinks

Not really, the majority of government expenditure is raised from the population in some form or other, the only duped people are those who fail to acknowledge this is the case. My understanding is the transfer of the debt would raise an expectation for the BOT to repay from profits, the profits may well be generated by increasing charges, interest rates etc, but would not be direct taxes.

The 1.4 trillion THB moved back from FIDF to BoT is mostly a left over from the 1997 financial crisis. It relates to business and debt at book values at that time. Usefull items have mostly been sold. To expect BoT to make much profit on this seems wishful thinking at the best. I fail to see how this doubtful move will restore foreign investers confidence in Thailand and it's government and how this will enable the government to borrow more at an improved rate. Window dressing ?

BOT has revised the GDP prediction up one point

In a global downturn business is scratching around for revenue, this is possibly a good time to negotiate contracts and spending on major projects

Of course there is also the removal of annual compensation, infastructure repair expenditure, caused by flooding, not to mention the saved lives (Buchholz will have the latest figures)

But you are welcome look on the alternative side BOT possibly may struggle with the debt........caution, speculation, or fact?

[rubl]

The 1.4 trillion THB moved back from FIDF to BoT is mostly a left over from the 1997 financial crisis. It relates to business and debt at book values at that time. Usefull items have mostly been sold. To expect BoT to make much profit on this seems wishful thinking at the best. I fail to see how this doubtful move will restore foreign investers confidence in Thailand and it's government and how this will enable the government to borrow more at an improved rate. Window dressing ?

BOT has revised the GDP prediction up one point

In a global downturn business is scratching around for revenue, this is possibly a good time to negotiate contracts and spending on major projects

Of course there is also the removal of annual compensation, infastructure repair expenditure, caused by flooding, not to mention the saved lives (Buchholz will have the latest figures)

But you are welcome look on the alternative side BOT possibly may struggle with the debt........caution, speculation, or fact?

The BoT upped it's GDP forcast for 2012 from 4.8% to 4.9%, with 2011 ending up at 1% instead of original 3.0%-5.0% estimate. Latest expectation here

http://www.pattayama...ntral-bank-9898

As for the rest of your comment: "it is possible", both ways. Unfortunately my Crystal Ball needs new batteries

Edited February 5, 2012 by rubl

[473geo]

Estimated deficit caused by the 2011 flood, 1 trillion baht............

If another such event occurs in the future it is therefore likely to almost double the debt that is currently being transferred....which you are implying is already high enough to have a detrimental effect on the BOT........and every additional flooding event will have the same or greater accumulative economic effect

Time for a permanent fix to the flood risk.........in my opinion

Edited February 5, 2012 by 473geo

[hellodolly]

I don't know where I got it wrong. The total storage capacity for all flood control dams and structures in Thailand is 75billion cubic meters. I'm not sure how much of the storage capacity belongs to Choa Pharaya catchment. Last year the flood of such magnitude can be stopped if 15-20billion cubic meters could have been captured and well regulated for at least 3 months. Therefore, it is very likely the main root cause for last year's flood is ineffective flood control strategy was adopted (if there was one). If the Water Management auntorithies had prepared all the dams and structures so that they have lower than 75% filled, the flood have not be that big.

Then, why they need TBH 350billion? I doubt Thailand needs that much.

It is natural tendency for any government to blame something that they don't have as scapegoats after the occurences of the major catastropic events. To them that is the way to hide their weaknesses. To average citizens it means, they would have been be cheated twice. Ultimately their governments will allocate huge resources to develop the structures or the systems that are not needed. Who are going to pay for that? Obviously all citizens, directly or indirectly.....

The funding should be returned by continuing foreign investment, paying wages which in turn allow the country to repay the cost through taxes. The government is correct in restoring the confidence of foreign investors and the general public alike. To gamble on not creating effective control is playing with the lives of people, ask Buchholz, he will tell you exactly how many died last year. To gamble on not creating effective flood control is also putting at risk foreign investment, without foreign investment work will become scarce, the minimum wage will become static and the citizens will suffer. Let us hope this government is not stalled by legal wrangling. and allowed to make the life saving changes, and support the economic future of Thailand, while also providing employment for many, as they strive to remove the flood legacy they inherited.

The government has spent more time talking about doing some thing than doing any thing.

Has any one seen the army dredging canals and tearing down illegal structures on the canals and water ways? Has the government come up with a method of collecting garbage so that it does not go into the canals? Do people believe these things will happen?

Perhaps if the politicians would stop worrying how they are going to line their pockets we could see some action.

In Bangkok the BMA quit waiting and started doing.

A government should be able to do the same thing. They have a panel set up to tell them what needs doing yet they don't even bother to attend it to hear some solutions.

Edited February 5, 2012 by hellodolly

[473geo]

I think the government making decrees to finance the projects required shows how seriously they take the task of implementing the fix.........

Unfortunately the people who previously failed to successfully budget and implement a fix are attempting to slow the financial process......

Perhaps voice your complaint in that direction?

Edited February 5, 2012 by 473geo

[rubl]

In the Netherlands the current Water Management Plan runs up to 2028 with fundig allocated till 2020. Allocation is only done AFTER activities are documented, reviewed, approved. Initial a temporary budget request is done only. Furthermore actual budget allocation may be effected by economical need which can cause plans to be postponed and/or spread over longer periods.

Anyway, the Thai government now has THB 350 billion (to be lent), soon we'll get the planning on how this money will be spent. BTW THB 11 billion or so is reserved for short-term fixes only. The THB350 billion is for long-term solutions, or at least to come to a manageble state which 'only' needs regular updates.

From your local Dutch uncle

[thaicbr]

I was up in Nonthaburi area that had chest level floods in places.. The roads are in crap condition but worse the rubbish is STILL piled at the side of the road and some earth banks are still in place blocking roads.. The Governor of this province is ineffective at best OR just bloody useless at WORST....... bloody useless is what i was told by some Thai's living there

[ResX]

I don't know where I got it wrong. The total storage capacity for all flood control dams and structures in Thailand is 75billion cubic meters. I'm not sure how much of the storage capacity belongs to Choa Pharaya catchment. Last year the flood of such magnitude can be stopped if 15-20billion cubic meters could have been captured and well regulated for at least 3 months. Therefore, it is very likely the main root cause for last year's flood is ineffective flood control strategy was adopted (if there was one). If the Water Management auntorithies had prepared all the dams and structures so that they have lower than 75% filled, the flood have not be that big.

Then, why they need TBH 350billion? I doubt Thailand needs that much.

It is natural tendency for any government to blame something that they don't have as scapegoats after the occurences of the major catastropic events. To them that is the way to hide their weaknesses. To average citizens it means, they would have been be cheated twice. Ultimately their governments will allocate huge resources to develop the structures or the systems that are not needed. Who are going to pay for that? Obviously all citizens, directly or indirectly.....

"If the Water Management auntorithies had prepared all the dams and structures so that they have lower than 75% filled, the flood have not be that big."

Weren't the dams at 60% full at the start of the wet season last year?

Two of the major dams that I know, namely Bhumibol and Sirkit were technically be beaten only by the 1st Oct 2011. Flood or no flood later date, they were already be beaten at that point of time. If no flood, they win by a lucky shot. They managed to "win" at least once before merely by good lucks (2006). But they can't always rely on good luck.

60% filled as you mentioned was sometime in May 2011. From May to Sept it was the run up period to the anticipated flood period of the year. From my search it was found that the anticipated flood period should be in Oct every year (Ours is in November-December). The water management authorities should have fought harder during the run up period since they stand no chance to fight and win later. That means they have to release more water worth >USD 10millions just like that but in controllable manner right from June 2011. They must be willing to do so without hesitation even pockets of areas will be inundated so that they can have the safe margins for the two dams by 1st Oct. Here is the difficult part for the authorities to decide that you have to acknowledge. Their decision to release more water can turn up to be wrong if there is no such big flood strikes later. The persons who were troubled by floods during the run up period may take the court case against the authorities.

I anticipated this can be the major problem to the decision makers. That is why I have mentioned somewhere that the implementation of approved flood control methodology shall be protected by law.

Given three months period or longer a flood control reservoir can safely discharge more water than the maximum anticipated rainfalls for the same period as long as the anticipated flood periods are not included. During flood period, probably between 4-14 days, without enough storage reserve to capture the flood waters a reservoir is hapless to deal with it. Therefore, by hook or by crook, be sure a flood control reservoir to have sufficient margin to take a ride during flood season.