New Yamaha Nouvo Injected

[karlos]

Arghhhhh this bloody quote system sucks ass!!

('my bike was also in the floods few times

i never thought tht would affect the top end speed though but i do have lost a bit of top end speed')

If the belt was subjected to moisture it would have caused unwanted slippage and accelerated the wear of the belt. Mine was slipping pretty badly but after gentle riding the belt dried out after a few KM's. I'll most definitely check the belt when in for its next service, but 5kmh of the top end doesn't bother me too much. I might wait until the next service or the one after

[manarak]

Arghhhhh this bloody quote system sucks ass!!

('my bike was also in the floods few times

i never thought tht would affect the top end speed though but i do have lost a bit of top end speed')

If the belt was subjected to moisture it would have caused unwanted slippage and accelerated the wear of the belt. Mine was slipping pretty badly but after gentle riding the belt dried out after a few KM's. I'll most definitely check the belt when in for its next service, but 5kmh of the top end doesn't bother me too much. I might wait until the next service or the one after

If it affects speed, it obviously affects fuel economy as well, because the engine needs to run faster to achieve the same speed.

Changing it now might save the cost in fuel.

Edited April 28, 2012 by manarak

[karlos]

Arghhhhh this bloody quote system sucks ass!!

('my bike was also in the floods few times

i never thought tht would affect the top end speed though but i do have lost a bit of top end speed')

If the belt was subjected to moisture it would have caused unwanted slippage and accelerated the wear of the belt. Mine was slipping pretty badly but after gentle riding the belt dried out after a few KM's. I'll most definitely check the belt when in for its next service, but 5kmh of the top end doesn't bother me too much. I might wait until the next service or the one after

If it affects speed, it obviously affects fuel economy as well, because the engine needs to run faster to achieve the same speed.

Changing it now might save the cost in fuel.

It's a good point, but we are only talking about around 3-4% less top end and across the rev range and ratios of the CVT system the difference in fuel return wouldn't even pay for half the price of a new belt. Once i notice slipping or even less top end, let's say 10% i'll change the belt

[vel_tins]

Gravity is never needed to fill carbs.....

Ah ok, this is a real argument!

So, I am sure, you can explain, how to fill the float chamber without a fuel pump, when the fuel tank is mounted lower than the carb...

Edited April 28, 2012 by vel_tins

[wana]

Gravity is never needed to fill carbs.....

Ah ok, this is a real argument!

So, I am sure, you can explain, how to fill the float chamber without a fuel pump, when the fuel tank is mounted lower than the carb...

whats wrong with using a fuel pump ?

[karlos]

Gravity is never needed to fill carbs.....

Ah ok, this is a real argument!

So, I am sure, you can explain, how to fill the float chamber without a fuel pump, when the fuel tank is mounted lower than the carb...

It's called a vacuum my friend I shouldn't have said 'never'

Fuel pumps are used, but carbs can work without them.

I had an old Escort with Twin DCOE Webber carbs which ran fine without a fuel pump and those carbs, as on most cars were about half a meter higher than the fuel tank

Edited April 28, 2012 by karlos

[manarak]

I just tried out jtiger's (John's) new Yamaha Nouvo SX here in Naklua. As mentioned the bike is new as of yesterday. Well today John got up early to ride around in the hills and got around 43 k per liter according to his trip computer. We then rode around Naklua together and I was seeing numbers like 50 kpl on the computer. By the time we had finished the trip computer was registering over 45 kilometers to the liter. However, we were not stalled in traffic waiting for traffic lights to change and we were driving at a pretty good clip. It's going to take John at least several tank fulls in my opinion to really get a good gauge on what his new bike will do. Today I went back to my spreadsheet which showed my 135 c.c. Elegance getting 32.33 kpl based on my refilling my fuel tank five times. This is a more realistic gauge of city driving. If it were me on the bike and if I could hold at John's initial average of 43 kpl over 5 tankfuls around Pattaya this would mean the new Nouvo SX would be getting a range of 187 kilometers in city driving situations whereas I'd be getting just 155 kilometers per tankful with my Elegance 135. This would mean 20 % more range even though the new bike's fuel tank had been downsized from 4.8 liters to 4.3. All this of course is speculative based on very limited data.

Both of us felt the new Yamaha SX is not as torquey as the 135 c.c. Elegance. It is very smooth, however---even smoother than my 135 c.c. Elegance which has just 9000 kilometers on it. I felt it is more sensitive to steering inputs and more flickable than my Elegance. The bike simply has a great feel to it. All in all a great ride.

Back to the subject: the new SX then just seems a replacement for the good old elegance, just with a smaller engine, slightly less power and better fuel economy but the same range because for some reason they had to cut the size of the tank. :-(

It's drivers will spend less money to the Km, but visit the station as often.

Are there any customizing shops that can enhance fuel capacity?

[CMX]

Thanks for the startup report, Jack,

Of course, even in cars nowadays reports on fuel use at the moment and during a trip are suspect. In our little bikes, more suspicious yet, since speedometers are always wrong and odometers are perhaps uncertain. As you say, measuring at the pump a number of times should do the job with accuracy, given the type of driving and payload that you take pains to report, particularly in a side-by-side comparison.

This new 125i Click that I've been mentioning not only features Honda's eSP (enhanced smart power) fuel-saving economy (beyond fuel injection), but it carries 5.5 L of fuel. It features the flat floor and it's bigger than before, but li'l wheels at 14" and an enlarged but still somewhat smaller under seat storage area when compared to the larger Yammie scoots. However, it's a Honda and will retain resale value against the day we arrive with choices of 250's.

Edited April 29, 2012 by CMX

[vel_tins]

It's called a vacuum my friend I shouldn't have said 'never'

Fuel pumps are used, but carbs can work without them.

Sure, if the fuel tank is mounted above the carbs.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Gravity_feed

http://de.wikipedia....allbenzinsystem <-- german, but with a better explanation.

Some early vehicles and other engines had a gravity-feed fuel system, in which fuel flowed to the engine from a tank located above it. Automotive and most other engines have a pressurized fuel system with a pump that draws or pushes fuel from the tank to the engine

source

Vacuum is only needed, to open the fuel cock.

I had an old Escort with Twin DCOE Webber carbs which ran fine without a fuel pump...

With all respect Sir, but this is nonsense..

We actually had to swap the mechanical fuel pump to an electric one, when we mounted this type of carbs.

(How many years ago?)

These Weber carbs needed so much fuel, that most mechanical fuel pumps couldn't just deliver enough.

BTW: I personally never saw/owned a car without fuel pump. And I had a lot of them..

But back to my question:

What do you think, why do they mount the fuel tank under the seat and not somewhere else?

Edited April 29, 2012 by vel_tins

[jackcorbett]

I am really surprised that with so many of us here wanting larger fuel tanks, that so far not one of us has come up with as much as ONE custom shop that can retrofit our bikes with larger tanks. There has to be a large segment of this market that wants larger fuel tanks as much as we do. Then again, this country can be downright weird when it comes to providing products there is a real demand for. Example---Isn't it true that a substantial percentage of Westerners want brass or gold plated fixtures in their bathrooms for their showers, bathtubs, not to mention hooks and towel racks? Yet just try to find anything in Pattaya--ANYWHERE. You can have any color you want so long as it's Chrome. Hey.....I can't even find any real coffee to buy at either Lotus and Carre Four. I can get any other kind I want, however, so long as it's instant. (But I can find it at the much smaller Best Foods).

In the United States, I had a 1992 Mazda Miata 1600 c.c. 116 horsepower sports car before I traded it for a high powered 2002 model ten years later. I could easily find a roll bar, air intakes, after market exhausts, high performance headers and a Sebring supercharger and I easily found qualified mechanics who were just itching to modify my car. Eventually I had all my modifications done at my local Mazda dealer where eventually I the service manager was trying to talk me into putting in a nitrous oxide kit.

[vel_tins]

I am really surprised that with so many of us here wanting larger fuel tanks, that so far not one of us has come up with as much as ONE custom shop that can retrofit our bikes with larger tanks

Unless you move the tank to "somewhere" (fairing) or below the "bone", you have just no more space under the seat.

(Picture shows under seat storage of a Fiore, tank is placed inside the front fairing))

A second tank, in the storage space, could be an alternative.

But if this makes any sense?

For this reason, I have always 10-20 liter gasoline in a jerry can at home.

But I agree, many times, the simplest thing are very complicated here.

Especially, if it's a little bit beside the norm, and requires Somchai to think about......

I can't even find any real coffee to buy at either Lotus and Carre Four. I can get any other kind I want, however, so long as it's instant.

Makro has real coffee

Tesco/BigC's target customer is the average Thai.

They don't give a shit about us "few" farangs.

TiT

Edited April 29, 2012 by vel_tins

[wana]

I am really surprised that with so many of us here wanting larger fuel tanks, that so far not one of us has come up with as much as ONE custom shop that can retrofit our bikes with larger tanks

Unless you move the tank to "somewhere" (fairing) or below the "bone", you have just no more space under the seat.

(Picture shows under seat storage of a Fiore, tank is placed inside the front fairing))

A second tank, in the storage space, could be an alternative.

But if this makes any sense?

For this reason, I have always 10-20 liter gasoline in a jerry can at home.

But I agree, many times, the simplest thing are very complicated here.

Especially, if it's a little bit beside the norm, and requires Somchai to think about......

I can't even find any real coffee to buy at either Lotus and Carre Four. I can get any other kind I want, however, so long as it's instant.

Makro has real coffee

Tesco/BigC's target customer is the average Thai.

They don't give a shit about us "few" farangs.

TiT

the entire underseat storage space could be used to expand the fuel tank for people who have no interest in storing things under the seat and just want RANGE ,loads of it

circa 12 litres tank on an elegance anybody ?

500-600km between fills

very interesting if someone with technical know how could put it together

[jamesbrock]

very interesting if someone with technical know how could put it together

Here's a start!

http://liquidcontainment.com.au/fuel_bladders.html

[vel_tins]

or you could mount a very small saleng/sidecar to your bike, which carries a 20-50 l tank.

Put a t-connector into the original fuel line and you got it.

But seriously, a second tank in the underseat storage/underbone is not too difficult to realize, but not worth the hassle, if you only build one or two.

BUT I think, most people like me, would prefer storage over range.

Time for a poll, methinks...

Edited April 29, 2012 by vel_tins

[chris2004]

Just a quick word on fuel consumption. When i got my new 135 cc Elegance a few months ago i kept a detailed record of it's fuel consumption over the 1st 2000 kms. Around town in Pattaya, obviously stop/start driving, i got 105 mpg (37k/l). On a few long trips to Chon Buri i got 150 mpg (over 50 k/l). I thought this was a great result. Hard to think the new Elegance will beat it. I've seen the new one in the dealer and i thought the metal on the instrument panel looked a bit cheap and nasty.

[jtiger]

i got 105 mpg (37k/l). On a few long trips to Chon Buri i got 150 mpg (over 50 k/l).

You're obviously talking about the Imperial Gallon and not the US version of the gallon.

[wana]

or you could mount a very small saleng/sidecar to your bike, which carries a 20-50 l tank.

Put a t-connector into the original fuel line and you got it.

But seriously, a second tank in the underseat storage/underbone is not too difficult to realize, but not worth the hassle, if you only build one or two.

BUT I think, most people like me, would prefer storage over range.

Time for a poll, methinks...

exactly correct,it wont suit everybody

some would take extra range /some would prefer storage

how cool would it be if yamaha offered the elegance with 2 options ?

a choice of a helmet storage or a 12 litre tank capacity

[jtiger]

The SX seems dedicated to reducing fuel consumption. The fuel economy gauge is always visible and is so big you can always see it in your peripheral vision. Humans work best if there is feedback to use to optimize behavior.

I think that this gauge will help train one to cover a certain distance with the minimum amount of fuel.

[jamesbrock]

or you could mount a very small saleng/sidecar to your bike, which carries a 20-50 l tank.

Put a t-connector into the original fuel line and you got it.

But seriously, a second tank in the underseat storage/underbone is not too difficult to realize, but not worth the hassle, if you only build one or two.

How about one or two thousand? Do you think one could get that number of sales across Thailand, or, indeed, Asia?

BUT I think, most people like me, would prefer storage over range.

Unless, of course, one rides a stepthrough - you can potentially have both!

Sitting here looking at my Hayate, there's an exceptional amount of void under that frame; but the question is - what would people be prepared to pay for double, or triple, the range?

Time for a poll, methinks...

Get on it then!

[vel_tins]

How about one or two thousand? Do you think one could get that number of sales across Thailand, or, indeed, Asia?

Hard to prophesy.

I mean, the production costs for a small plastic tank, that fits into the underseat storage, are low.

So you won't lose a huge amount of money.

I think the problem is, you have to build them for all major model variants, like Click, Scoopy, Mio, Fino, etc.pp.

And because the average Thai usually refuels only 1 liter, or 1 Bottle for 30 Bt, the customers have to be "non-Thai".

No idea, what might happen in other countries.

what would people be prepared to pay for double, or triple, the range?

Time for a poll....

[manarak]

or you could mount a very small saleng/sidecar to your bike, which carries a 20-50 l tank.

Put a t-connector into the original fuel line and you got it.

But seriously, a second tank in the underseat storage/underbone is not too difficult to realize, but not worth the hassle, if you only build one or two.

How about one or two thousand? Do you think one could get that number of sales across Thailand, or, indeed, Asia?

BUT I think, most people like me, would prefer storage over range.

Unless, of course, one rides a stepthrough - you can potentially have both!

Sitting here looking at my Hayate, there's an exceptional amount of void under that frame; but the question is - what would people be prepared to pay for double, or triple, the range?

Time for a poll, methinks...

Get on it then!

I don't think it is necessary to sacrifice the underseat storage for 3 or 4 extra liters of fuel.

Looking at the Nouvo, there also is void, for exampe on both upper sides of the back wheel.

I'm sure there are other spots under the plastic coating. It will make an interesting tank form for sure, but the space is there.

Plus this range issue weighs on my personal fuel economy figures, because I have to substract about 6 Km from the range at every tank fill... distance to the station (which is on a route I don't usually drive) and back.

Edited April 29, 2012 by manarak

[jamesbrock]

I think the problem is, you have to build them for all major model variants, like Click, Scoopy, Mio, Fino, etc.pp.

Not necessarily. One could start with one bladder - custom made so that it would fit under the underbone of all stepthroughs - and move to undersea storage bladders for the scooters if the demand is there...

The mob I linked to earlier produces several fuel bladders, and can even custom make them if you have the cash; it's not an entirely stupid idea!

And because the average Thai usually refuels only 1 liter, or 1 Bottle for 30 Bt, the customers have to be "non-Thai".

That would most probably be the target anyway.

Time for a poll....

Waiting...

[jamesbrock]

I don't think it is necessary to sacrifice the underseat storage for 3 or 4 extra liters of fuel.

Hence the idea of sticking it where vel_tins, quite rightly, calls a waste of space.

Looking at the Nouvo, there also is void, for exampe on both upper sides of the back wheel.

I reckon relying on gravity, as opposed to having to attach it onto the underside would be the most cost-effective method. Besides, you wouldn't want to risk punctures from road debris.

I'm sure there are other spots under the plastic coating. It will make an interesting tank form for sure, but the space is there.

Hence the bladder idea, as they can theoretically be made into, and conform with, any shape.

The next issue would be connecting it to the fuel system, and/or existing fuel tank (and, obviously, complying with any regulations the Thai govt might have...), it would be nice if it filled while filling the main tank, and not separately.

[jackcorbett]

I agree. That first of all we need to have that poll. Secondly, I will be the first to say, I'm no engineer. But I've often looked at my Elegance and thought to myself...."there's got to be some extra room for a larger fuel tank here. There's a lot of clearance here and there's a lot of clearance there so would think there is easily enough room for at least an extra 2 liters of fuel without much difficulty. One would think Honda or Yamaha would be able to figure these things out but I think both companies are unable to see the obvious.

[vel_tins]

I agree. That first of all we need to have that poll

Lets do it the Thai-way.

First, form a "bike-modification-committee", with two sub-committees, one responsible for "storage" and the other one for "range".

When this is done, blame the japanese for building crappy bikes with to less range and storage.

After this, never talk again about the modification-idea...

Edited April 29, 2012 by vel_tins

[jamesbrock]

Sounds good, but when does the siphoning of funds happen??

[vel_tins]

Ahh, I forgot to mention:

When the committees have been formed, a bidding of some tank-manufacturers is needed.

After one of them made a good offer (incl. a reasonable kickback), we go to the "blame the japanese" step, without ever signing a contract with the manufacturer.

Edited April 29, 2012 by vel_tins

[manarak]

I don't think it is necessary to sacrifice the underseat storage for 3 or 4 extra liters of fuel.

Hence the idea of sticking it where vel_tins, quite rightly, calls a waste of space.

Looking at the Nouvo, there also is void, for exampe on both upper sides of the back wheel.

I reckon relying on gravity, as opposed to having to attach it onto the underside would be the most cost-effective method. Besides, you wouldn't want to risk punctures from road debris.

I'm sure there are other spots under the plastic coating. It will make an interesting tank form for sure, but the space is there.

Hence the bladder idea, as they can theoretically be made into, and conform with, any shape.

The next issue would be connecting it to the fuel system, and/or existing fuel tank (and, obviously, complying with any regulations the Thai govt might have...), it would be nice if it filled while filling the main tank, and not separately.

yes, kevlar, yes

[jamesbrock]

yes, kevlar, yes

Too true, but thinking of keeping the price point down. Nothing wrong with offering an additional 'premium' product though...

[ZZZ]

Even a simple thing like repainting the bike requires you to go to LTA and have the changes entered in the green book.

A mod like increasing fuel capacity will most likely require testing and re-certification by the athorities to make it legal. It will most likely void the waranty as well.

But as this is Thailand I guess this will not stop anyone