Two Held In Killing Of Wild Elephant In Phetchaburi; Ivory Buyer Sought

[Lite Beer]

ILLEGAL WILDLIFE TRADE

Two held in killing of wild elephant in Phetchaburi; ivory buyer sought

KHANATHIT SRIHIRUNDAJ,

MONTHIEN INTHAKET

THE NATION ON SUNDAY

BANGKOK:-- Police say pair confess to killing beast after being approached by Karen man

Phetchaburi police have asked the provincial court for permission to detain without bail two suspects accused of killing an elephant in Kaeng Krachan National Park while they search for the person who hired them and the intended buyer of the elephant's ivory and other parts.

After a 9am press conference at police headquarters, suspected wild-elephant poachers Lukkaew Chan-upatham, 28, and Chan Kuanphu, 28, were taken for interrogation at Phetchaburi Police Office at 11am.

The elephant's carcass was discovered January 3. The duo was arrested on Friday on suspicion of killing a protected animal without permission, having a wild animal's carcass in their possession, possessing unregistered weapons and carrying the weapons in public without sound reason.

They were allegedly found with an AK47 rifle, a Carbine gun, a shotgun and ammunition.

Police are seeking a Karen man named Somporn Jorkai, 33, who was also believed to be present when the elephant was killed.

The suspects confessed to shooting the 10-year-old elephant but said the beast didn't die immediately and had fled, Kaeng Krachan superintendent Pol Col Woradech Suankhai said. Finding its carcass the next day, the suspects said they removed its tusks and other parts to sell, the officer said.

Woradech declined to give any more details, saying police were gathering evidence in order to obtain arrest warrants for more suspects.

He said the two suspects admitted selling the ivory for Bt20,000 per kilogram while other parts were sold for Bt2,000 each.

Woradech said the duo denied shooting and burning a smaller elephant found by national park officials at another location. A senior official was arrested in relation to that incident.

Chan said he and Lukkaew were invited by Somporn to join him in shooting an elephant. Chan shot the beast with the AK47 and Somporn used the carbine, while Lukkaew took the shotgun with him but did not use it, he said.

They were hired for Bt90,000, of which he later took Bt15,000, Lukkaew Bt22,000 and Somporn the remainder, Chan said, adding that he delivered the parts to the buyer, who drove a black Honda CRV sedan, in front of Ban Walai School in Prachuap Khiri Khan's Hua Hin district.

They had hidden in a forest since the shooting, emerging on Friday because they thought police had stopped looking - only to be arrested.

Phetchaburi police chief Pol Maj-General Wirat Watchjarakhajorn said an investigation found that the buyer - an investor based in Ratchaburi - had bought elephant parts from the suspects many times before. Each time, the suspects would arrange for the buyer to pick the parts up in Prachuap Khiri Khan. He said the buyer didn't sell the parts openly at a restaurant.

National police chief Pol General Priewpan Damapong told the press conference officers were gathering evidence to obtain a warrant to arrest Withoon Reungworaset, a jungle-products trader from Ratchaburi, as he was allegedly the one who drove a car to pick up the elephant parts.

-- The Nation 2012-02-19

[jaltsc]

"The duo was arrested on Friday on suspicion of killing a protected animal without permission, having a wild animal's carcass in their possession, possessing unregistered weapons and carrying the weapons in public without sound reason."

I wonder what a "sound reason" is for carrying an AK47 in public.

[MILT]

A total senseless killing. It would be nice to see the orchestrators nabbed as well. Well that takes care of the rumors that the elephants are murdered for their calves to be used in elephant camps.

[thaiorchidsource]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

[ratcatcher]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

I agree with your sentiments, but wonder what would be an appropriate example?

In Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa and maybe Kenya and tanzania, some poachers when caught are shot on sight. No trial.

[Oberkommando]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

I agree with your sentiments, but wonder what would be an appropriate example?

In Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa and maybe Kenya and tanzania, some poachers when caught are shot on sight. No trial.

As are some Cambodian loggers found in Thailand. There are incidents of them being tortured and burnt alive by the Thai army.

[TheGhostWithin]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

I agree with your sentiments, but wonder what would be an appropriate example?

In Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa and maybe Kenya and tanzania, some poachers when caught are shot on sight. No trial.

Whilst I do not agree to execution without trial, considering that Elephants, additional to being the national emblem, are an endangered species globally in most locations, the death penalty should apply. The best forensic agents should be used to investigate insuring the correct offenders are identified in every case, with across the board penalties applying.. no "discounts" because you are wealthy and can pay your way out. No amount of money will bring back these beautiful kindred spirits once they are gone, which are simply irreplaceable in Thai history and folklore.

[Reasonableman]

In transit to a protest?

"The duo was arrested on Friday on suspicion of killing a protected animal without permission, having a wild animal's carcass in their possession, possessing unregistered weapons and carrying the weapons in public without sound reason."

I wonder what a "sound reason" is for carrying an AK47 in public.

[AleG]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

Who really needs to be made an example to others is the buyer. Unfortunately you'll always have poor, desperate people (not that I know for a fact those two fit the description) to do the deed on behalf of a rich buyer.

[scorecard]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

Who really needs to be made an example to others is the buyer. Unfortunately you'll always have poor, desperate people (not that I know for a fact those two fit the description) to do the deed on behalf of a rich buyer.

Agree. Plus these two should be punished appropriately, but are they the top of the ring? Doubt it.

This is probably well organized, these two are the low ranks.

[CHANGOVER]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

I agree with your sentiments, but wonder what would be an appropriate example?

In Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa and maybe Kenya and tanzania, some poachers when caught are shot on sight. No trial.

As they should be here and in the Cameroons where 200 elephants have just been reported slaughtered.

No quarter given.

Edited February 19, 2012 by CHANGOVER

[luckyman]

A total senseless killing. It would be nice to see the orchestrators nabbed as well. Well that takes care of the rumors that the elephants are murdered for their calves to be used in elephant camps.

Well, all the dead elephants found in Keng Krachan around New Year still had their tusks. After the raid by the corrupt DNP on several wildlife sanctuaries last week, some very influential Thais, some connected to the royal household, intervened and condemned the DNP openly. Bottom line, this article is a hoax, a spin and the two guys on the picture are just 'fall guys'....

[ratcatcher]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

I agree with your sentiments, but wonder what would be an appropriate example?

In Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa and maybe Kenya and tanzania, some poachers when caught are shot on sight. No trial.

As they should be here and in the Cameroons where 200 elephants have just been reported slaughtered.

No quarter given.

The actual story:

http://www.africareview.com/News/-/979180/1330360/-/gms0qmz/-/index.html

This is absolutely incredible. Madness!

[CHANGOVER]

I really wish there was a 'safari' company where one could sign up to hunt the poachers and be allowed to put their mounted heads in a trophy room.

I for one join immediately.

[TechnikaIII]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

You can be sure they will show case it, as DAMAGE CONTROL !!

Nab a couple as fall guys and then pretend that it is all under control, whilst there is undeniable corruption in very poweful places where a lot of money is being made, not so much on the ivory market, but very BIG money changing hands for young elephants for the entertainment of dumb tourists.

READ THIS ... CAREFULLY

The slaughter of family groups of elephants in Thailand and neighbouring countries is being funded by tourists. Not until there is global awareness, outrage expressed, and elephant entertainment boycotted, will this stop. I am closely connected to those "on the ground".

Relative to demand, there is a shortage of elephant calves born in captivity, for use in the various tourist entertainment activities. For those available, the treatment is horrid enough, with brutalisation - to break their spirits - but to slaughter a family group simply to get their filthy hands on the calf is what most of the poaching is about. Ivory is just a bonus, and official statements about ivory are a decoy, a distraction from the bigger issue.

[TechnikaIII]

A total senseless killing. It would be nice to see the orchestrators nabbed as well. Well that takes care of the rumors that the elephants are murdered for their calves to be used in elephant camps.

Well, all the dead elephants found in Keng Krachan around New Year still had their tusks. After the raid by the corrupt DNP on several wildlife sanctuaries last week, some very influential Thais, some connected to the royal household, intervened and condemned the DNP openly. Bottom line, this article is a hoax, a spin and the two guys on the picture are just 'fall guys'....

Thank you for speaking out too. I was beginning to think I was alone here with the knowledge.

I am still away, so can not see Thai TV, but I know there has been, for the most part, a blackout on this story. I was afraid there may have been pressure here too, to shut up. I have sent info to Bangkok post, and requested coverage. But not a word, unless I have missed something. It is very troubling.

One of my Asian Facebook contacts told me in a private message, that she has been harassed with cooked up visa issues, and even threatened with imprisonment, for her outspokenness on the issue. Make of that what you will.

To everyone...

[Johpa]

The slaughter of family groups of elephants in Thailand and neighbouring countries is being funded by tourists. Not until there is global awareness, outrage expressed, and elephant entertainment boycotted, will this stop. I am closely connected to those "on the ground".

And pray tell, without the tourist dollar, where would the elephants in the camps go? There is no longer much in the way of open forest habitat where they could live and graze without trampling upon some poor farmers field. There is no longer any work in logging. And in the larger camps up in Mae Sa and up the Mae Tamam, the breeding programs are quite successful and the resident herds are self-sustaining in population. So just what exactly is the problem with tourists providing funding to feed and care for animals that would otherwise not be allowed to forage in the wild? I can undertand your concern about protecting the wild herds in the national parks. But the elphants in the major camps up north depend on the tourist dollar. And just what does it mean that you are "closely connected to those on the ground"? I have known several of the owners of some major elephant camps for decades and some of them are well grounded people indeed.

[TechnikaIII]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

I agree with your sentiments, but wonder what would be an appropriate example?

In Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa and maybe Kenya and tanzania, some poachers when caught are shot on sight. No trial.

Whilst I do not agree to execution without trial, considering that Elephants, additional to being the national emblem, are an endangered species globally in most locations, the death penalty should apply. The best forensic agents should be used to investigate insuring the correct offenders are identified in every case, with across the board penalties applying.. no "discounts" because you are wealthy and can pay your way out. No amount of money will bring back these beautiful kindred spirits once they are gone, which are simply irreplaceable in Thai history and folklore.

But how does this work, when both law makers and enforcers are in the business?

Edited February 19, 2012 by TechnikaIII

[metisdead]

Although for a noble cause, a post lobbying members to sign a petition has been removed:

29) Not to lobby members.

[kawaiimomo]

This is insane. We all know corruption is very common here, but when it comes to killing animals for some miserable money this makes me sick. As when DNP and the rest go to raid WFFT and confiscate animals that have all of the legal permits in retaliation for these people outspoking about officials, politicians and wealthy people involved. They should just release the names of those bastards, I guess they cannot hurt them anymore as they have been raided for 5 consecutive days and most of the animals taken away (they can do from outside the kingdom or even anonymously on the internet)

[MILT]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

You can be sure they will show case it, as DAMAGE CONTROL !!

Nab a couple as fall guys and then pretend that it is all under control, whilst there is undeniable corruption in very poweful places where a lot of money is being made, not so much on the ivory market, but very BIG money changing hands for young elephants for the entertainment of dumb tourists.

READ THIS ... CAREFULLY

The slaughter of family groups of elephants in Thailand and neighbouring countries is being funded by tourists. Not until there is global awareness, outrage expressed, and elephant entertainment boycotted, will this stop. I am closely connected to those "on the ground".

Relative to demand, there is a shortage of elephant calves born in captivity, for use in the various tourist entertainment activities. For those available, the treatment is horrid enough, with brutalisation - to break their spirits - but to slaughter a family group simply to get their filthy hands on the calf is what most of the poaching is about. Ivory is just a bonus, and official statements about ivory are a decoy, a distraction from the bigger issue.

Just where is the proof to this story that tourist dollars are supporting the killing of herds for calves. The elephant parks I personally know of have a very successful breeding program with a new calve birthed just 7 days ago at one of the parks. This story you are helping spread around is just negative propaganda that does not help the problem of domesticated elephants in Thailand. Get your facts right my friend. Don't follow the ban of critics that are all acting like sheep. Have you ever been to these elephant camps and seen for yourself what an important role they play in helping the elephants.

[TechnikaIII]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

You can be sure they will show case it, as DAMAGE CONTROL !!

Nab a couple as fall guys and then pretend that it is all under control, whilst there is undeniable corruption in very poweful places where a lot of money is being made, not so much on the ivory market, but very BIG money changing hands for young elephants for the entertainment of dumb tourists.

READ THIS ... CAREFULLY

The slaughter of family groups of elephants in Thailand and neighbouring countries is being funded by tourists. Not until there is global awareness, outrage expressed, and elephant entertainment boycotted, will this stop. I am closely connected to those "on the ground".

Relative to demand, there is a shortage of elephant calves born in captivity, for use in the various tourist entertainment activities. For those available, the treatment is horrid enough, with brutalisation - to break their spirits - but to slaughter a family group simply to get their filthy hands on the calf is what most of the poaching is about. Ivory is just a bonus, and official statements about ivory are a decoy, a distraction from the bigger issue.

Just where is the proof to this story that tourist dollars are supporting the killing of herds for calves. The elephant parks I personally know of have a very successful breeding program with a new calve birthed just 7 days ago at one of the parks. This story you are helping spread around is just negative propaganda that does not help the problem of domesticated elephants in Thailand. Get your facts right my friend. Don't follow the ban of critics that are all acting like sheep. Have you ever been to these elephant camps and seen for yourself what an important role they play in helping the elephants.

@ "Get your facts right my friend."

It is not about those parks. There is a dark side, with big money involved.

You need to do some research. You can start here www.wfft.org

However, if you find comfort in denial, so be it.

Interesting to note that this topic has so few contributors. Whereas some hyped up, tabloid-style article about tuktuks, jet skis, bar girls or a brawl, and it will run to pages in an instant.

[CHANGOVER]

Interesting to note that this topic has so few contributors. Whereas some hyped up, tabloid-style article about tuktuks, jet skis, bar girls or a brawl, and it will run to pages in an instant.

Yes extremely sad!

[TechnikaIII]

The slaughter of family groups of elephants in Thailand and neighbouring countries is being funded by tourists. Not until there is global awareness, outrage expressed, and elephant entertainment boycotted, will this stop. I am closely connected to those "on the ground".

And pray tell, without the tourist dollar, where would the elephants in the camps go? There is no longer much in the way of open forest habitat where they could live and graze without trampling upon some poor farmers field. There is no longer any work in logging. And in the larger camps up in Mae Sa and up the Mae Tamam, the breeding programs are quite successful and the resident herds are self-sustaining in population. So just what exactly is the problem with tourists providing funding to feed and care for animals that would otherwise not be allowed to forage in the wild? I can undertand your concern about protecting the wild herds in the national parks. But the elphants in the major camps up north depend on the tourist dollar. And just what does it mean that you are "closely connected to those on the ground"? I have known several of the owners of some major elephant camps for decades and some of them are well grounded people indeed.

1. is being done for that tourist dollar, and it is just a taste.
   
2. In numerous cases, those "poor farmers field" are ilegally encoaching on elephant habitat.
   
3. What I do, and who I am in contact with, for security reasons, is not up for discussion. But clearly, I'm more aware of what's going on than you are.
   

[Johpa]

1. is being done for that tourist dollar, and it is just a taste.
   
2. In numerous cases, those "poor farmers field" are ilegally encoaching on elephant habitat.
   
3. What I do, and who I am in contact with, for security reasons, is not up for discussion. But clearly, I'm more aware of what's going on than you are.
   

I agree that the camps are for-profit business ventures, but I argue that without the camps many of the elephants woulud not have a place to live. And many of the owners of the larger camps are committed to the long term welfare of the resident elephant population and invest significant funds towards that goal.

The farmers are indeed expanding their fields as the Kingdom expands it all weather road network into the hills. This is no different than any other nation on earth that has seen its population expand. Care to find wild bears in Europe of buffalo herds in North America? Thailand does have some wildlife sanctuaries, probably not enough, and certainly not enough to hold the resident pachyderm population. Therefore, I argue that the tourist elephant camps are one part of the solution. They are not a perfect solution, but there is no perfect solution for the elephants unless we start culling people as well.

And grasshopper, I have been involved with elephants in Thailand for 25 years. I have owned elephants in Thailand and I have met most of the major players. You know nothing and your feigned need for "security" only empasizes that you are but mere bluster.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Johpa

[TechnikaIII]

1. is being done for that tourist dollar, and it is just a taste.
   
2. In numerous cases, those "poor farmers field" are ilegally encoaching on elephant habitat.
   
3. What I do, and who I am in contact with, for security reasons, is not up for discussion. But clearly, I'm more aware of what's going on than you are.
   

I agree that the camps are for-profit business ventures, but I argue that without the camps many of the elephants woulud not have a place to live. And many of the owners of the larger camps are committed to the long term welfare of the resident elephant population and invest significant funds towards that goal.

The farmers are indeed expanding their fields as the Kingdom expands it all weather road network into the hills. This is no different than any other nation on earth that has seen its population expand. Care to find wild bears in Europe of buffalo herds in North America? Thailand does have some wildlife sanctuaries, probably not enough, and certainly not enough to hold the resident pachyderm population. Therefore, I argue that the tourist elephant camps are one part of the solution. They are not a perfect solution, but there is no perfect solution for the elephants unless we start culling people as well.

And grasshopper, I have been involved with elephants in Thailand for 25 years. I have owned elephants in Thailand and I have met most of the major players. You know nothing and your feigned need for "security" only empasizes that you are but mere bluster.

You have owned elephants in Thailand and you have met most of the major players, but you know nothing about

You have a vested interest in denial .. Mr Elephant Owner?

However, no doubt you have heard of the WFFT? .. and the DNP harassment and confiscation of animals in their care, as punishment, because they blew the whistle on what was happening with wild elephants? ... the slaughter of adults and taking of calves for tourist activities? ...

More about it here.

As to "You know nothing ..." Excuse me? The whole world has now seen what you are pretending is not happening. Are you for real?!

The need for security is by no means feigned. Individuals are being harassed with cooked up visa issues, and threatened with worse. This being the "Thai Visa forum" .. I trust this will not be considered "off topic".

(The mentioned "individuals" are personal contacts of mine.)

Edited February 23, 2012 by TechnikaIII

[TechnikaIII]

Elephants killed for tourist dollars

... not that anyone here cares.

Today the raids on the WFFT animal rescue centre are stepped up. The raids are revenge for his (Edwin Wiek) "exposure of the authorities' complacency, if not complicity, in a booming business in baby elephant trafficking."

Edited February 23, 2012 by TechnikaIII

[theseahorse]

Elephants killed for tourist dollars

... not that anyone here cares.

Today the raids on the WFFT animal rescue centre are stepped up. The raids are revenge for his (Edwin Wiek) "exposure of the authorities' complacency, if not complicity, in a booming business in baby elephant trafficking."

There are people here that care, but sadly (even though the Nation have been very supportive of Edwin and the WFFT) this forum hasn't posted any of their aticles. Not sure why???

Johpa - from what you say you must know Edwin and you must have read what Edwin said in his open letter that started all of this. Edwin just asked for the baby elephants in captivity to be DNA tested against thier mothers to make sure that they haven't been poached from the wild. The breeding schemes you are talking about would have no problems as they are all above board and the baby elephants have come from a legitamate mother. BUT the DNP doesn't seem to want to do this (you can fill in the gaps of why not!) and has decided instead to take hundreds of animals away from one of south east Asia best animal sancturies and place them in the appalling conditions that they keep the animals in.

This whole situation is down to the corruption of the people who should be looking after the wild elephants, if the DNP would just do thier job properly and check that none of the baby elephants have come from wild with DNA testing then everyone would be happy and they would come out looking like the good guys. But I guess some very high up people are making a lot of money from it for them to want to do this. Their reaction and lack of just doing the DNA tests and proving themselves not guilty, kind of shows the entire world that they must be guilty and are involved in the illegal poaching trade.

[Johpa]

Johpa - from what you say you must know Edwin and you must have read what Edwin said in his open letter that started all of this. Edwin just asked for the baby elephants in captivity to be DNA tested against thier mothers to make sure that they haven't been poached from the wild.

I have no problem with DNA testing and have made no comments upon that subect although I doubt many owners would be able to afford such testing. I respond here when people characterize the entire industry as corrupt as I disagree with that assessment. And I respond to those who demand that all of the tourist camps be shut down as I believe that the tourist camps are an important component to a less than perfect solution.

[TechnikaIII]

I hope the police/courts make an example of these poachers that might deter a future sensless killing of wild elephants.

You can be sure they will show case it, as DAMAGE CONTROL !!

Nab a couple as fall guys and then pretend that it is all under control, whilst there is undeniable corruption in very poweful places where a lot of money is being made, not so much on the ivory market, but very BIG money changing hands for young elephants for the entertainment of dumb tourists.

READ THIS ... CAREFULLY

The slaughter of family groups of elephants in Thailand and neighbouring countries is being funded by tourists. Not until there is global awareness, outrage expressed, and elephant entertainment boycotted, will this stop. I am closely connected to those "on the ground".

Relative to demand, there is a shortage of elephant calves born in captivity, for use in the various tourist entertainment activities. For those available, the treatment is horrid enough, with brutalisation - to break their spirits - but to slaughter a family group simply to get their filthy hands on the calf is what most of the poaching is about. Ivory is just a bonus, and official statements about ivory are a decoy, a distraction from the bigger issue.

Just where is the proof to this story that tourist dollars are supporting the killing of herds for calves. The elephant parks I personally know of have a very successful breeding program with a new calve birthed just 7 days ago at one of the parks. This story you are helping spread around is just negative propaganda that does not help the problem of domesticated elephants in Thailand. Get your facts right my friend. Don't follow the ban of critics that are all acting like sheep. Have you ever been to these elephant camps and seen for yourself what an important role they play in helping the elephants.

You can read this if you dare. ... Acting like sheep are we?