Halliburton Gets Iraq Oil Contract

[the gentleman]

Despite a Pentagon probe into alleged overcharging for fuel delivered to Iraq, the Army awarded Vice President Dick Cheney's former company a contract to rebuild Iraq's oil industry.

The northern Iraq contract, worth up to $US800 million ($A1.04 billion), went to a joint venture of the California-based Parsons Corp and the Australian firm Worley Group Ltd.

Halliburton won a competitive bid to rebuild the oil industry in southern Iraq, a contract worth up to $US1.2 billion ($A1.56 billion) over two years, the Army Corps of Engineers said in a statement.

The Army gave Halliburton subsidiary KBR a no-bid contract to rebuild oil infrastructure throughout Iraq shortly after the US-led invasion of Iraq last March. The Army opened that contract for competitive bids late last year and split it into one for northern Iraq and one for southern Iraq.

Just days before the Army's award to Halliburton, Pentagon auditors asked for an investigation into possible criminal wrongdoing involving the no-bid Kellogg Brown and Root oil industry reconstruction contract.

Officials in the defence Department's Office of Inspector-General haven't decided which investigators will do the work, the office said in a statement Friday.

The defence Contract Audit Agency last month questioned KBR's charges for petrol it bought in Kuwait and trucked into Iraq for the civilian market. KBR charged more than double the price for petrol brought in from Kuwait than it did for petrol trucked in from Turkey. Auditors said KBR may have overcharged the Army by $US61 million ($A79.38 million) between May and September.

Halliburton has denied any wrongdoing and said the Army approved its subcontract with a Kuwaiti supplier, the Altanmia Marketing Co. The Army told auditors the high price was justified because KBR had to get fuel deliveries going quickly to avert a fuel crisis in Iraq.

The oil contract probe will focus mainly on possible wrongdoing by government officials, not Halliburton, a senior defence official has said.

Democrats have demanded further investigations and criticised the Halliburton contracts as evidence of the Bush administration's rewarding its corporate friends.

Cheney ran Halliburton from 1995 until he quit in 2000 to become Bush's running mate, and the company's executives have donated thousands of dollars to the Bush campaign.

White House and Pentagon officials say political considerations do not affect the defence Department's contract decisions. Cheney, a former defence secretary, is not involved in those decisions.

[adjan jb]

What a wonderful corporate world !

[plachon]

What a wonderful corporate world !

And don't forget Adjan, now read my lips, the decision to invade Iraq "HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL". Have you got that? Good, now let's get back to sorting out the world's troubles, which has onerously been left to us Brits and Yanks to do, cos nobody else has the morals and spine to do it. It's a Wasp's burden don't you know, my good man.

[adjan jb]

What a wonderful corporate world !

And don't forget Adjan, now read my lips, the decision to invade Iraq "HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL". Have you got that? Good, now let's get back to sorting out the world's troubles, which has onerously been left to us Brits and Yanks to do, cos nobody else has the morals and spine to do it. It's a Wasp's burden don't you know, my good man.

The decision to invade Iraq had everything to do with oil and the control of the middle-east.

As for the "white man's burden" to sort out the world's troubles: it smacks of contempt and conceit. What makes you think that you are superior to an African or an Asian ? What makes you think that they have to learn from you ( and consequently that you don't have anything to learn from them) ?

The "white man's burden" ! You know we are in 2004, man. The colonial days are over. Partnership is the future. Any other policy is doomed to failure.

Question : Why were the U.S. targetted on 9-11 ?. Has any of you ever wondered why ? (I'm not satisfied by Bush'answer: "They hate our freedom")

(By the way, I'm not a WASP).

[adjan jb]

now let's get back to sorting out the world's troubles, which has onerously been left to us Brits and Yanks to do, cos nobody else has the morals and spine to do it.

Nobody else ???

I thought the coalition of the willings included the U.S, GB, Spain, Poland and NUMEROUS OTHER COUNTRIES.

[Membrane]

Hey adjan jb, do you know what sarcasm is?

[Membrane]

From The Houston Chronicle

Halliburton's rebuttal: It saved $164 million

By DAVID IVANOVICH

WASHINGTON -- Houston's Halliburton Co. says it saved American taxpayers about $164 million by finding a subcontractor in Turkey to help supply fuel to Iraq.

Halliburton, marshaling its evidence to rebut complaints the company overbilled the government by as much as $61 million, will argue that its employees, not the Pentagon, first proposed finding a second contractor in Turkey to bolster the effort to truck gasoline from Kuwait into fuel-starved Iraq.

The Pentagon's chief financial officer said today, however, that even if Halliburton unintentionally overcharged for work in Iraq it would still have to repay the U.S. government.

Last week the Pentagon said a draft audit found Halliburton subsidiary KBR may have been overcharged by a Kuwaiti sub-contractor it chose to bring fuel into Iraq from Kuwait.

Dov Zakheim, the Pentagon's comptroller, told reporters it did not look as if KBR had made a big profit out of the fuel deal but said the company would be held responsible for paying back any money it might have overcharged.

"If they cannot recover (overpaid money) -- if auditors determine that there was X dollars in overpricing, then it's the company that will be out (of pocket), not the taxpayer," he said at a breakfast with reporters.

Last Friday, one day after parts of the draft audit became public, President Bush also said he expected the company to repay taxpayers if the Pentagon probe determined it had overcharged for fuel deliveries.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, however, had ordered Halliburton subsidiary KBR to find only one fuel source in the region, a company source told the Chronicle on Tuesday.

The Pentagon required Halliburton to truck in fuel until engineers could make the necessary repairs to restore Iraq's damaged oil refining and distribution network. Importing fuel has cost about $1.2 billion.

Halliburton sought bids from four suppliers in Kuwait, but only one met with the Corps of Engineers' specifications.

Pentagon officials said last week Kuwait's state-owned oil company authorized only one firm to bid on the contract to supply the fuel.

Stuck with only one supplier and coping with a dangerous route from Kuwait, Halliburton, through Sept. 30, had been charging about $2.27 a gallon to import gasoline from Kuwait, Pentagon officials said.

Company officials say they proposed using a second supplier from Turkey. And trucking in fuel from the north proved far cheaper, costing only about $1.18 a gallon. Turkey quickly became the chief source for fuel into Iraq. Halliburton has brought in about 150 million gallons of fuel from the north, compared with 56.6 million from Kuwait.

But when Pentagon auditors saw the cheaper rates from Turkey, they -- in essence -- concluded that Halliburton hadn't shopped around enough in the first place to find a bargain.

When calculating the possible $61 million overcharge, they compared the difference in those two prices and then multiplied by the 56.6 million gallons brought in from Kuwait.

Halliburton officials say security accounts for much of the high cost of trucking fuel in from Kuwait.

While the military has been able to ensure that fuel moves regularly from the north, escorted convoys in the south have become "erratic."

The company's subcontractor has had one driver killed, nine workers injured and 20 trucks damaged.

Halliburton is scheduled to present its arguments to the Pentagon today. If Defense Department auditors don't buy the company's explanations, Halliburton could be forced to eat the $61 million.

The Pentagon had also criticized KBR for listing a price in a proposal to operate dining halls for U.S. troops that was $67 million more than deal the company already had reached with a subcontractor to do the work.

Pentagon officials last week attributed this largely to miscommunication.

"KBR is suffering from having an organization that is essentially split," a Pentagon official said. "They've opened offices, obviously, in-country to handle the contracting, the issuance of purchase orders and so forth.

"However, they're relying on their Houston office to prepare proposals and billing," the Pentagon source said. "I view this as a serious disconnect."

Pentagon officials say they caught the $67 million discrepancy and never paid the extra amount.

Company officials have pointed out that that means the miscommunication didn't cost taxpayers any money.

As Halliburton officials begin to make their case on the billing questions, they will face a skeptical audience from many in Washington.

"Halliburton is living in Wonderland if it thinks the taxpayer is getting a good deal," said Rep. Henry Waxman of California, the ranking Democrat on the House Government Reform Committee.

"We need a thorough investigation to understand who is responsible for this gouging of the taxpayer," Waxman said.

Halliburton is a political lightening rod, in no small part because Vice President Dick Cheney once headed the company.

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., Tuesday asked the Pentagon to consider barring Halliburton from future government contracts.

Lieberman, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee and a presidential hopeful, said federal law requires that contractors have a "satisfactory record of integrity and business ethics."

"Based on current and past allegations against Halliburton, there needs to be a careful review of whether the company has complied with this important requirement," Lieberman wrote in a letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Halliburton officials argued that "the underlying facts and assumptions in the Senator's comments are wrong."

"They are based on statements that we will prove are incorrect when the company delivers its response," the company said.

The Bush administration plans to appoint NASA's inspector general to the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad to oversee investigations of any alleged abuses, Reuters has reported.

Robert "Moose" Cobb is expected to become the authority's first -- and probably last -- inspector general after more than 1 1/2 years at the space agency, the aides said late Monday.

In Baghdad, he will coordinate audits and investigations, and will monitor and review reconstruction contracts, Reuters said.

[the gentleman]

come on, you can be patriotic to your country and some of you can even like Bush, but lets be serious - it was always going to go to Haliburton - they probably had a pre war contract!

[Membrane]

Who cares if they did? What would it "prove"? Just because it "used to be Cheney's company"?

[the gentleman]

What a wonderful corporate world !

And don't forget Adjan, now read my lips, the decision to invade Iraq "HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL". Have you got that? Good, now let's get back to sorting out the world's troubles, which has onerously been left to us Brits and Yanks to do, cos nobody else has the morals and spine to do it. It's a Wasp's burden don't you know, my good man.

I think you mean only the Brits and the Yanks get credit, how about Australia, Spain, Thailand etc etc.

Ill have you know that the Australian and British SAS were in Iraq, before you guys left your shore and again in the gulf war - real soldiers are anonymous!

[adjan jb]

Ubi solitudimen faciunt, pacem appellant.

[adjan jb]

Who cares if they did? What would it "prove"? Just because it "used to be Cheney's company"?

It would prove that fascim (alliance of the excutive and corporate powers) is not far.

[Membrane]

Who cares if they did?  What would it "prove"?  Just because it "used to be Cheney's company"?

It would prove that fascim (alliance of the excutive and corporate powers) is not far.

No, fascism is not an "alliance of the executive and corporate powers". Fascism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

...In other words, Saddam Hussein.

Make no mistake, the U.S. government doesn't stop at George W. Bush and as much as you might fear him, or what he "might" do, there's no way the American people would stand idly by and let one simple President "take over the world", which is evidently what you fear. There are too many checks and balances to the system, too many groups and political opponents for that to happen. Plus, don't underestimate the power and the will of the American people, in dealing with an undesirable President (Nixon and Clinton for example).

On top of that, the U.S. government outsourcing a particular task to a very well-suited and experienced company means nothing in particular. I still say "So what"?

[Membrane]

What you should fear isn't the U.S., it's the growing storm... the expansion of Al-Quaeda world-wide and other Islamic fundamentalist terrorist groups. With these super-radical religious zealots, there is NO peace process, no diplomacy, no discussion. ...and THAT, my friend, is exactly why GWB is such a "hard liner". Because you have to be tough, to deal with people with such a rigid mind set.

There may well come a time in the future, when the "big bad U.S." may be the best friend you ever had.

[adjan jb]

No, fascism is not an "alliance of the executive and corporate powers". Fascism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Incomplete definition.

Maybe you sould take a look at an italian dictionary (fascism -facismo- is an italian word).

The alliance of the executive power (the dictatirial leader) and the main corporations was undeniable in Italy (1922-1945) and in Germany (1933-1945).

So the italian definition (more or less): Hierarchy + corporations + nationalism.

[Georgie-Porgie]

How strange that Membrane forgot to look at an Italian dictionary!

[davidm]

"You know we are in 2004, man. The colonial days are over. Partnership is the future. Any other policy is doomed to failure."

Colonialism will make a return, perhaps within the next decade. Don't forget, large parts of the British Empire were first contacted and even administered by private companies. The East India Company is the most famous example. It had its own army and navy.

The French and Dutch empires evolved in a similar manner.

Fast foward to 2004, and you will find a number of multinational corporations which have the potential to emulate the East India Company, but in a more subtle manner. Some companies employ over one million people across the world. If an employee has to choose between allegiance to a company or country, how many might choose the employer? How many more in around 10 years? Who knows how much control a company like Microsoft might be able to exert then.

Colonialism will probably return to certain basket case countries in Africa which need leadership and competent administration. Liberia and Sierra Leone, for example.

As history tends to repeat itself, we will probably see exploitive colonialism by powerful countries preying on weaker neighbours. How long before Thailand is swallowed up by China? Virtually every Thai citizen who is a leading businessman, politician or senior militiary/police officer is ethnic Chinese.

India will probably try to expand. Likewise Turkey.

Europeans may not invade each other if the EU works out, but may look south for easy pickings.

The USA will almost certainly try to extend Pax Americana wherever it sees a profit.

BTW, Adjan, if you want to lecture about the meaning of facism, you need to study a bit harder. The roots of the word facist/fascist (both spellings can be used) come from fasces, the axe and rods which symbolised the power of magistrates in the Roman Republic - the rod indicated the authority to beat another man, and the axe the right to kill. Incidentally, the US flag at the Capitol is in between two large bronze fasces. The fasces has also appeared on American coins and the arms of the French Republic.

Mussolini, looking for some grandiose word to describe his movement and confer legitimacy on it, chose the word which we in English call facist.

The earliest facist movement, in the sense that Mussolini gave to the word, was the Black Hundreds formed in Russia at the end of the 19th century.

No doubt, facism and communism will also make comebacks within the next 20 years.

[Membrane]

Good post Davidm. For once, a post from someone who obvioulsy has studied a little--at least a little more than "Adjan". Maybe the "Adjan" should go back to school--as a student this time (heh heh)....

[Membrane]

No, fascism is not an "alliance of the executive and corporate powers".  Fascism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Incomplete definition.

Maybe you sould take a look at an italian dictionary (fascism -facismo- is an italian word).

The alliance of the executive power (the dictatirial leader) and the main corporations was undeniable in Italy (1922-1945) and in Germany (1933-1945).

So the italian definition (more or less): Hierarchy + corporations + nationalism.

Wrong again adjan jb! Like I said earlier, maybe the "Adjan" should go back to school--this time as a student (heh heh)....

Hey adjan! Look up the word (and learn how to spell) before being pretentious enough to try and teach others. Don't know of any good online dictionaries? How about this definition of the word?

Too lazy to go look it up? OK, here it is, just for you:

fascism

NOUN: 1. often Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

[SoCal]

Gentleman- Yes, you caught us with our pants down. Fact is that Haliburton has been the preeminent American company for handling war and post war rebuilding in the U.S. This dates back to the Vietnam war...when a yound Dick Cheney was working in the Johnson administration's mail room, and crossed out the correct contractor, and placed Halibrton's name in it's place.

I don't see any of us telling the Ausies how to spend their money, I don't know why you see it your place to tell us Americans how to spend ours.

PS- am glad you didn't go away.

----------------------------------------------

Adjan, a little late, but Ramadan Mubarak. May you find peace at the end of your gun.

----------------------------------------------

David M., a truly thoughtful post. Will point out however, that colonialism never really did end. It just changed forms, and is a little more inoquous, and none the less prevalent.

[Thaiquila]

I am abstaining from political discussions about US politics (largely because I got sick and tired of being called a traitor), but I would like to add some food for thought about the discussion of the definition of fascism. A simple dictionary definition does not do the subject justice. Any scholarly discussion about fascism will point out the truth of point 9 in this list: "Corporate Power is Protected."

I will leave it to others to consider whether the US is currently suffering from some of these symptoms of the political disease of fascism (as you already know how I feel).

The 14 Defining

Characteristics Of Fascism

by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. TOP

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -

Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. TOP

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. TOP

4. Supremacy of the Military -

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. TOP

5. Rampant Sexism -

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. TOP

6. Controlled Mass Media -

Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. TOP

7. Obsession with National Security -

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. TOP

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. TOP

9. Corporate Power is Protected -

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. TOP

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. TOP

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. TOP

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. TOP

14. Fraudulent Elections -

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[SoCal]

Membrane & G.P.,

Thought he went away? Oh well, empty promises from an empty head.

SoCal

[Thaiquila]

Membrane & G.P.,

Thought he went away? Oh well, empty promises from an empty head. 

SoCal

Yeah, me and Philippine President Gloria Arroyo.

I said I am abstaining from talking about US politics.

But the definition of fascism is a more general topic of international interest.

So there.

[SoCal]

Thaiquila, guess I am put in my place.

[adjan jb]

A simple dictionary definition does not do the subject justice. Any scholarly discussion about fascism will point out the truth of point 9 in this list: "Corporate Power is Protected."

The 14 Defining

Characteristics Of Fascism

by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. TOP

5. Rampant Sexism -

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. TOP

7. Obsession with National Security -

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. TOP

9. Corporate Power is Protected -

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. TOP

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. TOP

According to some of you I don't know my lessons and I should go back to school as a student to learn it.

School won't teach me what fascism is and, anyway, the killings of my grand-father and half his village has already done so. My father and two of my uncles were lucky enough to escape such a fate (They were in the Resistance and during their last battle in 1944, they were among the 4 survivors. 9 were killed on the spot - aged between 16 and 22 - another 4 or 5 died in the torture chambers).

Sorry guys but there 's no dictionary in the world that can teach me what fascism really is.

[plachon]

Hey adjan jb, do you know what sarcasm is?

Apparently not. At least we could have a good laff about it, eh? We've all been had at some time or other, but didn't realise that "gullible" had been removed from Adjan's lexicon too. Mai pen rai, mate.

[Georgie-Porgie]

I was able to immediately dismiss 9 out of 14 of Benny A's "14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism" and though there were traces of some of the other characteristics apparent in the US right now, they are due to an imminent danger to our country: TERRORISM. Countries have always resorted to desperate laws and measures in time of war or calamity.

As to adjan jb's tale:

School won't teach me what fascism is and, anyway, the killings of my grand-father and half his village has already done so. My father and two of my uncles were lucky enough to escape such a fate (They were in the Resistance and during their last battle in 1944, they were among the 4 survivors. 9 were killed on the spot - aged between 16 and 22 - another 4 or 5 died in the torture chambers).

You have just mentioned that some of your family were killed in torture chambers. Well that is a defining characteristic of Fascist regimes that probably should have been included above.

Well guess what? America doesn't have torture chambers and your good friend Saddam did. Who are the fascists now?

[plachon]

Well guess what? America doesn't have torture chambers and your good friend Saddam did. Who are the fascists now?

Oh no? Then what do you call those 2 x 2 m open air cells in Guantannamo Bay? A holiday camp? "Ah, but it's not on American soil", I hear you say. Well, that makes it ok then, I guess.

Never mind the fact, that half the world's most despicable regimes learnt a lot of their torture techniques from all expenses paid training visits to places like Ft Benning, all courtesy of the US taxpayer (and perhaps ill-gotten Ollie North drugs dollars and the like).

[Georgie-Porgie]

Sorry, plachon, but those are what we call prison cells, but you knew that already. They are an uncomfortable place to keep worthless scum-bags who train to kill innocent people.

As for your other lie, we have seen that you will claim just about anything. For once, how about some proof!

[pepe]

Well guess what? America doesn't have torture chambers and your good friend Saddam did. Who are the fascists now?

Georgie-Porgie are you that sure that Saddam Hussein is adjan jb's good friend ?

It's not because he criticizes Bush that he's on Saddam's side.

By the way we have been friends for a few decades now and I can tell you that he was already protesting in the 80's against the western "democracies" (USA, England, France, Germany, ...) which supported S. Hussein at a time when the vast majotity of Americans couldn't point Iraq on a world map.

He was right at that time as he is now right to be disgusted by the american support to Islam Karimov.