Pushing, Shoving And Line Jumping

[lovelaos]

The last time someone put something on the checkout in front of me I had the girl ring it up with my stuff and took it with me.

^^This is the best post on the thread

I thrive on the pushing games. If someone pushes past me, I push right back in my place. Do it with a stare and slightly demented grin. It used to really get to me at first but I actually enjoy it now.

The public buses in Laos are great fun!

Edited February 24, 2012 by lovelaos

[thequietman]

The last time someone put something on the checkout in front of me I had the girl ring it up with my stuff and took it with me.

that is one of the funniest and perfect solutions - well done that man.

but dam_n you to hell for putting it in my mind. there is a strong possibility that i,m going to do this the next time it happens to me.

[elwood]

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

No, Elwood, I did not infer that.You did. You, as the reader, infer, I, as the writer, imply. And yes it does happen regularly to me, not frequently, but regularly. Usually at the 7/11 towards the bottom of Soi 23 Suk. Never fails whenever I go in there.

Apropos the " concrete " evidence, sorry pal, but if you need convincing then you're clearly away with the pixies.

Away with the pixies - nice line, but completely wrong squire. As Nisa said, if you take on a man who has his mates around him, then most likely they will join in, against you of course. But back to Thais being craven cowards - how on earth do you know this? Have you spent all your time in Thailand witnessing expats being beaten up by gangs of Thais? After 20 years I've yet to meet en expat who has even been in a punchup with a Thai - but of course I am away with the pixies, as opposed to you with the great knowledge of these things.

And take a look at overseas western newspapers some time, and make a note of how many times a ,lone man is beaten to death by a gang, yes a gang, of western thugs. The average street neanderthal doesn't offer a straight one to one encounter I'm afraid, not here or anywhere.

[Nisa]

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

No, Elwood, I did not infer that.You did. You, as the reader, infer, I, as the writer, imply. And yes it does happen regularly to me, not frequently, but regularly. Usually at the 7/11 towards the bottom of Soi 23 Suk. Never fails whenever I go in there.

Apropos the " concrete " evidence, sorry pal, but if you need convincing then you're clearly away with the pixies.

Away with the pixies - nice line, but completely wrong squire. As Nisa said, if you take on a man who has his mates around him, then most likely they will join in, against you of course. But back to Thais being craven cowards - how on earth do you know this? Have you spent all your time in Thailand witnessing expats being beaten up by gangs of Thais? After 20 years I've yet to meet en expat who has even been in a punchup with a Thai - but of course I am away with the pixies, as opposed to you with the great knowledge of these things.

And take a look at overseas western newspapers some time, and make a note of how many times a ,lone man is beaten to death by a gang, yes a gang, of western thugs. The average street neanderthal doesn't offer a straight one to one encounter I'm afraid, not here or anywhere.

The problem, I believe is, some people read the negative stories here and then want to apply it to all Thais. It would be similar to reading the crime section of a newspaper every day in the US and then jumping to the conclusion all Americans are rapists, robbers and murderers. They don't seem to get that for each tourist who is robbed or beaten that there are countless others who had/have a great time here without any issues at all. It is the same mentality with a Thai cutting in line for some. They see this happen and then believe all Thais are "savages" ... If the shoe was on the other foot, after reading these posts it would appear foreigners in Thailand are a bunch of cowardly, insecure, women abusing bullies who are incapable of adult interactions if they feel the slightest bit annoyed. "If someone disrespects me then I disrespect them" ... sounds like a child mentality to me. Thankfully I am not so troubled that I believe that this is the culture of all foreigners in Thailand or even most or even a significant number of them. I actually believe it is a minority but if one only looked to Thaivisa posters for input, they might believe otherwise.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Nisa

[BigRick]

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

No, Elwood, I did not infer that.You did. You, as the reader, infer, I, as the writer, imply. And yes it does happen regularly to me, not frequently, but regularly. Usually at the 7/11 towards the bottom of Soi 23 Suk. Never fails whenever I go in there.

Apropos the " concrete " evidence, sorry pal, but if you need convincing then you're clearly away with the pixies.

Away with the pixies - nice line, but completely wrong squire. As Nisa said, if you take on a man who has his mates around him, then most likely they will join in, against you of course. But back to Thais being craven cowards - how on earth do you know this? Have you spent all your time in Thailand witnessing expats being beaten up by gangs of Thais? After 20 years I've yet to meet en expat who has even been in a punchup with a Thai - but of course I am away with the pixies, as opposed to you with the great knowledge of these things.

And take a look at overseas western newspapers some time, and make a note of how many times a ,lone man is beaten to death by a gang, yes a gang, of western thugs. The average street neanderthal doesn't offer a straight one to one encounter I'm afraid, not here or anywhere.

The problem, I believe is, some people read the negative stories here and then want to apply it to all Thais. It would be similar to reading the crime section of a newspaper every day in the US and then jumping to the conclusion all Americans are rapists, robbers and murderers. They don't seem to get that for each tourist who is robbed or beaten that there are countless others who had/have a great time here without any issues at all. It is the same mentality with a Thai cutting in line for some. They see this happen and then believe all Thais are "savages" ... If the shoe was on the other foot, after reading these posts it would appear foreigners in Thailand are a bunch of cowardly, insecure, women abusing bullies who are incapable of adult interactions if they feel the slightest bit annoyed. "If someone disrespects me then I disrespect them" ... sounds like a child mentality to me. Thankfully I am not so troubled that I believe that this is the culture of all foreigners in Thailand or even most or even a significant number of them. I actually believe it is a minority but if one only looked to Thaivisa posters for input, they might believe otherwise.

Hmm lets see since I have lived here two years. 1 friend punched by a cyclo driver in Chaing Mai because they refused to pay an extra 100 baht demanded. The person was as nice a person as it gets in his 60's owns a fishing lodge in Alaska. 2 Friends wife, Sister <Thais> and 2 farang got the snot beat out of them by the locals<Phayoi> over talking with the guys the local girls wanted. The two guys who got beat up were the guys in question but made the mistake of trying to break up the girls fighting and got beaten by about 10 guys. The pictures were funny albeit sad seeing someone with shoe imprints on their face. 3. Another woman we know almost got raped by a cab driver luckily she ran for it but lost her phone in the chaos. 4. Our neighbor had his bag stolen by a cyclo bandit lost his PP, Laptop and phone. 5. A nice South African woman we know got punched in the face on a side street near fortune town and had her ring and bag stolen. 6. We were in Jom Tien this weekend we saw a Farang get smashed in the head with a helmet his crime? He did not want to pay the guy who hit him for damage to his bike because the Thai was drunk driving. So I am not sure what part of Thailand you live in but all the perps were Thai males. These are first hand accounts and none of these people were in sketchy situations or sketchy people to begin with. The sketchy people I know have far more horrendous stories of violence. So again you are just being an apologist with no basis other than pigeon holing all the Thais as smiling we love the world hippies. This place is about survival for some of these people. They have no sympathy for anyone let alone their fellow Thais. Hell look at that article about them mobbing that hairy armpit lady in the MRT, Sure other countries have crime problems especially the US but you are missing the point in the US it is primary Black on Black crime or Black on White crime but very very very rarely is it White on Asian in fact I can't think of any instances. England sounds like a far more violent place most of the English people I meet are proud to be soccer hooligans and make it sound like fighting is a weekly occurrence. This mentality does not fly in countries with CWP I can't even remember the last time I was in a fight 20 years +.

[Nisa]

<snip>

These are first hand accounts and none of these people were in sketchy situations or sketchy people to begin with.

<snip>

Actually only one of them was a first hand account of something you witnessed which sounds like you were given one side of a story about a guy who wanted to take the law into his own hands after a vehicle accident ... where almost every person believes they were not at fault.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Nisa

[BigRick]

The thing in Jom Tien got ugly quickly. It ended as soon as it got ugly too many witnesses.The Thai guy was clearly the instigator we just saw the gang mentality the chest thumping and the cheap shot. The others are close enough that I can see pictures<They did not touch her husband because he stayed out of it> or the actual black eye that this SA girl got. When I lived in the states it was completely uncommon for people to be involved in the same situations. Don't fool yourself into thinking Thailand is equal to a Nerf safe country. Death comes in many forms in Asia. I basically don't even bother looking at accidents anymore because once you see someone die in front of you it becomes a tragedy. But on a side note I love Thailand! All the BS aside the small amount of annoyances are trivial there are far many other things to love about this place. The food, The culture, The beauty<Natural and of the female persuasion> the interesting people you meet, the festivals on and on. Here you are at a higher chance for personal injury if you think otherwise please provide a link.

Edited February 25, 2012 by BigRick

[luckizuchinni]

Sure other countries have crime problems especially the US but you are missing the point in the US it is primary Black on Black crime or Black on White crime but very very very rarely is it White on Asian in fact I can't think of any instances.

Not to keep this off topic, but i guess you have never heard of white guys jumping a Sikh thinking he is Muslim? White skinheads beating up black guys or Asians? Asian gangbangers shooting helpless bystanders during bank holdups?

Per capita-wise, Hispanics are actually the most likely to be convicted of a crime in the US. But all races and ethnic groups contribute to criminal activities.

I don't disagree that in Thailand, it is easy to become a victim due to being a foreigner, partially, I believe, because of language problems leading to an inability to talk things out. But to say that crime in the US is primarily Black-on-Black or Black-on-White is really just plain incorrect.

[elwood]

The thing in Jom Tien got ugly quickly. It ended as soon as it got ugly too many witnesses.The Thai guy was clearly the instigator we just saw the gang mentality the chest thumping and the cheap shot. The others are close enough that I can see pictures<They did not touch her husband because he stayed out of it> or the actual black eye that this SA girl got. When I lived in the states it was completely uncommon for people to be involved in the same situations. Don't fool yourself into thinking Thailand is equal to a Nerf safe country. Death comes in many forms in Asia. I basically don't even bother looking at accidents anymore because once you see someone die in front of you it becomes a tragedy. But on a side note I love Thailand! All the BS aside the small amount of annoyances are trivial there are far many other things to love about this place. The food, The culture, The beauty<Natural and of the female persuasion> the interesting people you meet, the festivals on and on. Here you are at a higher chance for personal injury if you think otherwise please provide a link.

I'm not a Thai apologist, it's just that on this forum (General in particular), it seems that if you say something in defence of them, you're an apologist, but if you state something negative, then it is accepted as true!

No problem Big Rick, we can agree to disagree, and your ending comments show that you don't let one issue stop you from generally being satisfied living here. That's a good attitude Rick; so many people seem to come on here and spew nothing but dislike for anything to do with this country - including towards to other expats! Stay happy mate.

[Sing_Sling]

Some quite astounding views here, ranging from the 'Thais can do no wrong', via 'We are only guests here' all the way to 'Thump 'em'.

Fact is that it is rude in Thai society to push, shove, jump queue and generally place yourself before others . . .

To deny this is absurd.

To respond to this by saying one should just accept it is absurd

To respond to this by saying 'I'm 6'4 and 300lbs and push back' is absurd

To respond to this by saying 'They're worse in China' is absurd

'We' are not guests in Thailand - and if we were we should be treated better than others, isn't that a logical thought process?

People who are rude enough to cut in front of you should be told nicely but firmly that this is not on. The cashier who accepts products from someone who cut in line should also be told not to.

Thais do it, don't think they don't . . . and as for Thai people not sweating the small stuff . . . what utter rot. Just because they don't often exhibit it on the outside means they are chewing themselves up on the inside.

What's healthier?

[Nisa]

The thing in Jom Tien got ugly quickly. It ended as soon as it got ugly too many witnesses.The Thai guy was clearly the instigator we just saw the gang mentality the chest thumping and the cheap shot. The others are close enough that I can see pictures<They did not touch her husband because he stayed out of it> or the actual black eye that this SA girl got. When I lived in the states it was completely uncommon for people to be involved in the same situations. Don't fool yourself into thinking Thailand is equal to a Nerf safe country. Death comes in many forms in Asia. I basically don't even bother looking at accidents anymore because once you see someone die in front of you it becomes a tragedy. But on a side note I love Thailand! All the BS aside the small amount of annoyances are trivial there are far many other things to love about this place. The food, The culture, The beauty<Natural and of the female persuasion> the interesting people you meet, the festivals on and on. Here you are at a higher chance for personal injury if you think otherwise please provide a link.

Now, you love being in a country (including "the culture") that you described as having a "small amount of annoyances " but yet in your previous post you said it " is about survival" being here and that the natives "have no sympathy for anyone" and large groups may start pouncing on you at any moment and this is if you are not "sketchy" but if you are you can expect much worse violence upon yourself.

How does a rational person love being somewhere which in 2-years they say they have "first hand accounts" of 6 stories of violence and/or thefts being committed by locals on their acquaintances and these are just the stories of people who were not "sketchy" and that their friends who are a bit "sketchy" "have far more horrendous stories of violence"

I don't personally know anybody who would describe these things as being a "small amount of annoyances "

Edited February 25, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Some quite astounding views here, ranging from the 'Thais can do no wrong', via 'We are only guests here' all the way to 'Thump 'em'.

Fact is that it is rude in Thai society to push, shove, jump queue and generally place yourself before others . . .

To deny this is absurd.

To respond to this by saying one should just accept it is absurd

To respond to this by saying 'I'm 6'4 and 300lbs and push back' is absurd

To respond to this by saying 'They're worse in China' is absurd

'We' are not guests in Thailand - and if we were we should be treated better than others, isn't that a logical thought process?

People who are rude enough to cut in front of you should be told nicely but firmly that this is not on. The cashier who accepts products from someone who cut in line should also be told not to.

Thais do it, don't think they don't . . . and as for Thai people not sweating the small stuff . . . what utter rot. Just because they don't often exhibit it on the outside means they are chewing themselves up on the inside.

What's healthier?

Haven't seen any post of anyone coming close to saying Thais can do no wrong. And unless you have become a citizen of this country, you are a guest (visitor) and can be asked to leave any time. It is also not considered rude to push your way through a crowded subway car to make room for other or to get out. It would only be rude if the contact was done in a purposeful way to cause somebody discomfort as some farangs here believe in doing. A normal Thai person takes absolutely no offensive to making contact with other people in crowded areas and it is illogical to believe contact and being pushed a bit is not going to happen.

Also to deal with something in a positive and non-retaliatory way is not the same as accepting it. Not to mention there is not one post on here that says cutting in line is not rude.

There is also absolutely no reason to be firm with somebody who cuts in front of you in a line unless you are willing to escalate the situation to back up your firmness. Doing so in just about any country or person is seen as an act of aggression which often is met with aggression. If you are so bothered by the occasionally rare line cutter and feel it is such on attack on you personally or feel you have to defend everybody else in line or believe you are duty bound to tell others how to behave, or simply believe that extra 2-minutes in line will be detrimental to your health then all it usually takes is a tap on the shoulder to get the person's attention and a smile or chuckle to either make them aware of or remind them their is a line. But of course if you are superior and need to instill some authority then by all means be firm and let them know you are ready to fight if they don't move.

I can tell you one thing many people should learn from proper Thai culture and that is not to think negatively and to treat people with the benefit of the doubt when a situation arises and not with the belief they are trying to hurt or inconvenience you or anyone else. If you wish to look at the bad people in any society and mimic their behaviors or stereotype all of their countrymen then it really is time to look in the mirror before feeling a need to point out other's shortcomings.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Nisa

[IanForbes]

I'll answer the same way I do for everything... It depends on the situation and my assessment of it. There is an old saying that holds true in many situations... "He who hesitates is lost."

In crowded areas there is always competition for "space". If there is the tiniest gap available then an aggressive person will take it and a passive person will miss out. it's called survival of the fittest. Most often I'll let someone else take my place because I've got all the time in the world. I plan ahead and don't let myself get forced into trying to catch up for lost time.

But, rude behaviour is common everywhere, and not just Thailand. I deal with it in many ways and it all depends on how much time I have, and how I am feeling at the time. I can actually get enjoyment out of dealing with bullies and rude people in my own way.

[Nisa]

Bangkok

vs. Tokyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra2ZrSw-tMs

[Sing_Sling]

How very clever Nisa . . . Oh, I can do that too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgFf3abVUJ4

[Nisa]

and for the Westerners NYC

Not rude but life in the big city - get used to it if you want to live in one.

[Sing_Sling]

Bangkok

vs. Tokyo

How quaint . . . Tokyo has been infamous for its sardine-can train services at peak hour . . . and many Thais cannot afford theirs. What a disingenuous post.

Ok, work laterally now, just to be fair, and tell me of your experiences of Japanese people cutting a queue as a normal procedure like it is in Thailand . . .

I've lived and worked in Tokyo and could spoil your fun for you . . . go on!

One common thread running through your posts is a continuous shifting of goalposts to suit your agenda

[Nisa]

I simply posted videos of typical rush hour boarding between Tokyo and Bangkok. Are you claiming that either of these are not typical or what we experience? If you feel the two are not representative of the truth then say so but to claim I have some kind of agenda or am shifting the goal post that is just very very strange thing to say since there was not even a comment being made in that post except to indicate the location of each video.

Maybe these paranoid thoughts are what gives you such problems when you are in lines or crowded places? Trust me when I tell you very few people are thinking of you personally in these places and I certainly wasn't when I posted these videos.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Nisa

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as the reply to the post was made within the quote tags altering the quoted content:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[StreetCowboy]

Bangkok

vs. Tokyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra2ZrSw-tMs

I'm quite impressed with the discipline on Tokyo metro; making the most of the trains to get as many people in as possible, so that others don't have to wait.

I know a lot is made of the "pushers" on the platforms in Tokyo, and I have no experience of that. In Hong Kong, the pushers assist people to clear the doors rather than get more people on. This in order to get the train away quickly. I now get fed up when I board a train that is only three-quarters full and there are people behind who can't get on because others don't move down the carriage. There's almost always room for one more, so long as, like me, they're only small...

Of course, as a fat balding sweaty farang, I have the added advantage that people automatically give me sufficient space, if they can...

SC

[Sing_Sling]

I simply posted videos of typical rush hour boarding between Tokyo and Bangkok. Are you claiming that either of these are not typical or what we experience? If you feel the two are not representative of the truth then say so but to claim I have some kind of agenda or am shifting the goal post that is just very very strange thing to say since there was not even a comment being made in that post except to indicate the location of each video.

Maybe these paranoid thoughts are what gives you such problems when you are in lines or crowded places? Trust me when I tell you very few people are thinking of you personally in these places and I certainly wasn't when I posted these videos.

Oh, they may be typical - but are you also aware that tens of millions of people use the Tokyo train service at the same time and that it is NOT chaos or individuals pushing and shoving?

You are being quite disingenuous by now denying shifting goalposts - it is your modum operandus- as can be seen with just your last statement as my comment was referring to a previous posting. Obfuscation is not really a clever method of discussion.

Who says I have problems in crowded places - did I mention that? Did I even allude to that? Please show me where I did so.

Trust you? I don't even believe you, let alone trust you.

Anyway, please do show me where I said I have problem sin crowded places. Thank you.

[BigRick]

Again you are beating a dead horse. I am pointing out the fact that Thailand is not gumdrop chocolate candy river land unless you consider poop chocolate. I have only had one minor problem and that was more my fault for letting my guard down and providing opportunity. About the only good thing you have provided Nisa is a good whipping boy for all the people who see the truth about being rude. Did I say farangs are in survival mode? I said there are people in Thailand in survival mode poor yokels from the countryside who do not know any better. Just look at Pattaya and Phuket and you will know what I am talking about. I lived in HCMC and this place has nothing on the hustle and bustle of there. You use these blanket statements and try and back them up with even worse arguments about what you know about Thai culture. Are you Thai? If not your opinion is only your own and you do not speak for the entire culture and all its nuances. My argument is first hand knowledge of what happens here. Have I been a victim of violent crime in Thailand? No for one I do not drink or whore so it keeps the exposure to liabilities down. I have been all over Thailand and most of SE Asia. Rude behavior is not a cultural thing it is a personal thing. So best of luck with that "Welcome" door mat on you pack I promise to drop a baht in your cup when I walk over you.

The thing in Jom Tien got ugly quickly. It ended as soon as it got ugly too many witnesses.The Thai guy was clearly the instigator we just saw the gang mentality the chest thumping and the cheap shot. The others are close enough that I can see pictures<They did not touch her husband because he stayed out of it> or the actual black eye that this SA girl got. When I lived in the states it was completely uncommon for people to be involved in the same situations. Don't fool yourself into thinking Thailand is equal to a Nerf safe country. Death comes in many forms in Asia. I basically don't even bother looking at accidents anymore because once you see someone die in front of you it becomes a tragedy. But on a side note I love Thailand! All the BS aside the small amount of annoyances are trivial there are far many other things to love about this place. The food, The culture, The beauty<Natural and of the female persuasion> the interesting people you meet, the festivals on and on. Here you are at a higher chance for personal injury if you think otherwise please provide a link.

Now, you love being in a country (including "the culture") that you described as having a "small amount of annoyances " but yet in your previous post you said it " is about survival" being here and that the natives "have no sympathy for anyone" and large groups may start pouncing on you at any moment and this is if you are not "sketchy" but if you are you can expect much worse violence upon yourself.

How does a rational person love being somewhere which in 2-years they say they have "first hand accounts" of 6 stories of violence and/or thefts being committed by locals on their acquaintances and these are just the stories of people who were not "sketchy" and that their friends who are a bit "sketchy" "have far more horrendous stories of violence"

I don't personally know anybody who would describe these things as being a "small amount of annoyances "

[megyboo]

Do as the This themselves do and you wont go wrong. If they skip you inline just skip them again... They wont think anything of it where as us as Falang will think its rude its just their culture!

[connda]

When in Rome...

Today I was in Tesco buying some bread. Walked up the counter, and a lady and her kid walk up beside me. and start edging toward the front of the checkout. I simply place myself between them and the counter without a comment or a look. I just basically did what Thais do. It felt good.

[connda]

When in Rome...

Today I was in Tesco buying some bread. Walked up the counter, and a lady and her kid walk up beside me. and start edging toward the front of the checkout. I simply place myself between them and the counter without a comment or a look. I just basically did what Thais do. It felt good.