Pheu Thai Wants Democrats Dissolved

[webfact]

Pheu Thai wants Democrats dissolved

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Pheu Thai Party will on Thursday petition the Election Commission, seeking dissolution of the Democrat Party in connection with the opposition's claim that Pheu Thai is seeking constitutional amendment to benefit its de-facto leader Thaksin Shinawatra.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said yesterday that billboards paid for by the Democrats and their eight-point Hat Yai Declaration made unfair allegations against Pheu Thai. He said the act could be regarded as a "hostile act against the democracy", a violation of the Political Party Act that could lead to the rival party being disbanded if found guilty.

Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday that he wondered why a party that opposed dissolution of parties sought to have its rivals disbanded.

"They said the Democrat Party was not found guilty because it was favoured by the court. The party did not do wrong so there was no reason to dissolve it. Are they trying to create a new social norm that when someone is accused repeatedly, they eventually will be viewed as guilty?"

-- The Nation 2012-03-13

[rkidlad]

I really hope that Abhisit is involved in politics here because he really thinks he can make changes for the better, and that he can move this country forward. I really couldn't deal with the stupidity of some the politicians and all the nonsense that can go on sometimes.

[KKvampire]

Peau Thai and their coherts hate seeing billboards telling people of their plans

[mrtoad]

Red democracy in action again

[whybother]

Are the PTP applying the same law as used to stop campaigning against constitution change in 2007? You know, the one that they scream about every week when they talk about scrapping the 2007 constitution.

[dominique355]

...and at the same time, Pheu Thai seeks to amend the Constitution with among other point, scrap the party dissolution penalty.

But this is not double standard at all! Not al all!

[givenall]

Seems like this days the governments have forgotten how to govern. All they do is fight among themselves and dirty politics.

Democrat want Pheu Thai out Pheu Thai want Democrats out, very similar to in US, Democrats don’t want republican and republican don’t work with Democrat

Let’s have both out and put people who work for the citizens

[jonclark]

Dissolution - I think it's fairly obvious to most Thai observers that dissolution means - a quick name change and then a swift relaunch then next day - think TRT / PPP / PTP, the previous two were dissolved, yet within a week PTP popped up to fill the gap with the same helmsmen at the rudder. All <deleted>

[exeter]

PT seem to have a their own view of reconciliation and democracy which different to anywhere else in the world. In the rest of the its called dictatorship.

[Bakseedaa]

It makes me laugh..... Thailand is a third-world country .. accept that fact and pay your dues... I love it..!

[animatic]

But this would get rid of Abhisit as a party leader.

Since he is one of the few who can actually think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand. His very presence makes PTP look bad. It also means getting rid of the NAME Democratic party, leaving the democratic concept to be abused by the Reds with a clear field.

Of course this is just something someone thought up over a drinking session and the spokesman threw out to see how it would fly. The actual charge is a far stretch from possible conviction and much less than the typical lies told by TRT/PPP/PTP against the Dems.... kettle/teapot black and 100% bolocks to keep the lawyers getting paid for another year..

Edited March 13, 2012 by animatic

[Pib]

One day it's the PTP crying foul, I'm going to take you to court; the next day its the Democrats crying foul,I'm going to take you to court; the next day it's some other political party crying foul, I'm going to take you to court. Where are the adults in these political parties? Oh no, these are the adults crying foul almost daily. TIT

[anterian]

But this would get rid of Abhisit as a party leader.

Since he is one of the few who can actually think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand. His very presence makes PTP look bad. It also means getting rid of the NAME Democratic party, leaving the democratic concept to be abused by the Reds with a clear field.

Of course this is just something someone thought up over a drinking session and the spokesman threw out to see how it would fly. The actual charge is a far stretch from possible conviction and much less than the typical lies told by TRT/PPP/PTP against the Dems.... kettle/teapot black and 100% bolocks to keep the lawyers getting paid for another year..

" think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand." are you serious?

[phiphidon]

Are the PTP applying the same law as used to stop campaigning against constitution change in 2007? You know, the one that they scream about every week when they talk about scrapping the 2007 constitution.

Do you know what all 8 points of the Hat Yai declaration are? Please share with us if you do. You seemingly pick on one but with nothing to back it up, just supposition. When we all know what the 8 points made by the democrats are then maybe we will all have something to discuss wrt whether there is a case for dissolution of the democrat party or not. Seems fair and logical to me.

[rubl]

The other newspaper has this from 28th of Feb:

On Monday, the Democrat Party held a big seminar in Hat Yai. The meeting passed the Hat Yai Declaration, outlining seven action plans with the basic aims -- to protect the monarchy; oppose changing Article 309 of the constitution for the benefit of Thaksin Shinawatra; oppose the amendment of the lese majeste law; resist the setting up of red villages; and to set up networks to oppose corruption.

[takatukaland]

I really hope that Abhisit is involved in politics here because he really thinks he can make changes for the better, and that he can move this country forward. I really couldn't deal with the stupidity of some the politicians and all the nonsense that can go on sometimes.

yeah right moves the country forward,same he did before

[animatic]

But this would get rid of Abhisit as a party leader.

Since he is one of the few who can actually think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand. His very presence makes PTP look bad. It also means getting rid of the NAME Democratic party, leaving the democratic concept to be abused by the Reds with a clear field.

Of course this is just something someone thought up over a drinking session and the spokesman threw out to see how it would fly. The actual charge is a far stretch from possible conviction and much less than the typical lies told by TRT/PPP/PTP against the Dems.... kettle/teapot black and 100% bolocks to keep the lawyers getting paid for another year..

" think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand." are you serious?

Ok, in comparison.

But when I have heard him speak he has made perfect sense, even when under extreme pressure.

Can't say I have heard any other Thai Politician come across as clearly.

Edited March 13, 2012 by animatic

[phiphidon]

The other newspaper has this from 28th of Feb:

On Monday, the Democrat Party held a big seminar in Hat Yai. The meeting passed the Hat Yai Declaration, outlining seven action plans with the basic aims -- to protect the monarchy; oppose changing Article 309 of the constitution for the benefit of Thaksin Shinawatra; oppose the amendment of the lese majeste law; resist the setting up of red villages; and to set up networks to oppose corruption.

OK, For an "8 Point Plan" for some reason they seem to only quote 5. I could see the PTP getting upset by a few there,

"to protect the monarchy" - are they implying that the PTP are doing the opposite?

Changing article 309 for the benefit of Thaksin - a bit specific this one, article 309 needs to be amended before a CDA can be set up, I understand. What amendment proposals the CDA plan to make nobody knows.

I'm sure that the PTP have denied that they would make changes to article 112 - in fact many posters on here crowed about their inaction.

Resist setting up "red villages" - I'm not sure how the democrats are going to do that, or why?

Set up networks to oppose corruption - presumably the NACC is not good enough for the democrats. That seems strange, seeing as they deem themselves the least corrupt government, the NACC were seemingly doing a good enough job when they were in power.

I wonder what the other 2/3 "points" are, but I can see the contentious issues being the first three, accusing them of doing something they haven't done.

[nong38]

Pheu Thai I think have got their ideas from Iran and Russia, you can have an election but there will be only one winner and thats us, the incumbent government. Democracy is wonderful dont you think? In whatever guise it comes.

I hope Abhisit sticks around maybe one day people will realize he was not so bad after all, at least he did not go about giving freebees to all and sundry.

[phiphidon]

But this would get rid of Abhisit as a party leader.

Since he is one of the few who can actually think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand. His very presence makes PTP look bad. It also means getting rid of the NAME Democratic party, leaving the democratic concept to be abused by the Reds with a clear field.

Of course this is just something someone thought up over a drinking session and the spokesman threw out to see how it would fly. The actual charge is a far stretch from possible conviction and much less than the typical lies told by TRT/PPP/PTP against the Dems.... kettle/teapot black and 100% bolocks to keep the lawyers getting paid for another year..

Isn't Korn the other night in shining armour, if he gets the right backing I'm sure he could takeover from Abhisit in opposition.

[rubl]

The other newspaper has this from 28th of Feb:

On Monday, the Democrat Party held a big seminar in Hat Yai. The meeting passed the Hat Yai Declaration, outlining seven action plans with the basic aims -- to protect the monarchy; oppose changing Article 309 of the constitution for the benefit of Thaksin Shinawatra; oppose the amendment of the lese majeste law; resist the setting up of red villages; and to set up networks to oppose corruption.

OK, For an "8 Point Plan" for some reason they seem to only quote 5. I could see the PTP getting upset by a few there,

"to protect the monarchy" - are they implying that the PTP are doing the opposite?

Changing article 309 for the benefit of Thaksin - a bit specific this one, article 309 needs to be amended before a CDA can be set up, I understand. What amendment proposals the CDA plan to make nobody knows.

I'm sure that the PTP have denied that they would make changes to article 112 - in fact many posters on here crowed about their inaction.

Resist setting up "red villages" - I'm not sure how the democrats are going to do that, or why?

Set up networks to oppose corruption - presumably the NACC is not good enough for the democrats. That seems strange, seeing as they deem themselves the least corrupt government, the NACC were seemingly doing a good enough job when they were in power.

I wonder what the other 2/3 "points" are, but I can see the contentious issues being the first three, accusing them of doing something they haven't done.

The limited info on the seven or eight action plans seems more like a political party manifesto similar to that of other political parties. Of the aims of these plans the only one listed which might be contentious seems the 'oppose changing article 309'.

So far seeking dissolution of the Dem's by the Pheu Thai party seems more like political wishfull thinking and muddling of the (flood)waters than anything else. IMHO

[ginjag]

anterian #13

you cannot be serious to question a fair point, and that was to compare him to all the other rabble. If you think for a minute that the P.M. and the dep P.M. are much better then something is missing with your thoughts, Please, get a grip and tell the truth -does in your mind Yingluck stand up and give a good opinion on matters ????, are you confident she is running the job herself ????, is she giving Thais and the world a good impression ???, are the landslide elected government doing the job they said they would ????, if you are saying yes to these points, I will respect your answer, but really will doubt your judgement.

[jayboy]

The other newspaper has this from 28th of Feb:

On Monday, the Democrat Party held a big seminar in Hat Yai. The meeting passed the Hat Yai Declaration, outlining seven action plans with the basic aims -- to protect the monarchy; oppose changing Article 309 of the constitution for the benefit of Thaksin Shinawatra; oppose the amendment of the lese majeste law; resist the setting up of red villages; and to set up networks to oppose corruption.

Good plan and so wonderfully attuned to the modern world and Thailand's needs.Should ensure the Democrats continued electoral success.

[animatic]

But this would get rid of Abhisit as a party leader.

Since he is one of the few who can actually think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand. His very presence makes PTP look bad. It also means getting rid of the NAME Democratic party, leaving the democratic concept to be abused by the Reds with a clear field.

Of course this is just something someone thought up over a drinking session and the spokesman threw out to see how it would fly. The actual charge is a far stretch from possible conviction and much less than the typical lies told by TRT/PPP/PTP against the Dems.... kettle/teapot black and 100% bolocks to keep the lawyers getting paid for another year..

Isn't Korn the other night in shining armour, if he gets the right backing I'm sure he could takeover from Abhisit in opposition.

I'll form my opinions from observing their actions on the economy,

Dems put it back on track,

vs TRT?PPP/PTP who either take totally dodgey loans to bury their 10 year old TRT loans,

(current puppets)

or

just ignored the world collapse problem till removed from office,

allowing Korn to successfully tackle the issues,

(Somchai puppets)

One side makes the situation worse and tells self serving lies about it,

the other side fixes the problems and only embellishes a little bit.

Gee... I wonder which is better for Thailands people?

Edited March 13, 2012 by animatic

[phiphidon]

But this would get rid of Abhisit as a party leader.

Since he is one of the few who can actually think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand. His very presence makes PTP look bad. It also means getting rid of the NAME Democratic party, leaving the democratic concept to be abused by the Reds with a clear field.

Of course this is just something someone thought up over a drinking session and the spokesman threw out to see how it would fly. The actual charge is a far stretch from possible conviction and much less than the typical lies told by TRT/PPP/PTP against the Dems.... kettle/teapot black and 100% bolocks to keep the lawyers getting paid for another year..

Isn't Korn the other night in shining armour, if he gets the right backing I'm sure he could takeover from Abhisit in opposition.

I'll form my opinions from observing their actions on the economy,

Dems put it back on track,

vs TRT?PPP/PTP who either take totally dodgey loans to bury their 10 year old TRT loans,

(current puppets)

or

just ignored the world collapse problem till removed from office,

allowing Korn to successfully tackle the issues,

(Somchai puppets)

One side makes the situation worse and tells self serving lies about it,

the other side fixes the problems and only embellishes a little bit.

Gee... I wonder which is better for Thailands people?

I think Thailands people for some reason haven't listened to your "now I know what's best for you" entreaties and have decided for themselves.

I would imagine that they would indentify your viewpoints as of those who took away their "choice" before and who are forever looking for new ways of doing so again without actually going to the polls and offer them something they need, rather than what you think they need.

But I can't speak for them and neither, I'm afraid, can you.

[phupaman]

Hi all.

I read and listen to Thai politics every day, I fail to see the logic with the Thai people voting for the Reds, The Reds DDD

created such a fuss about some Reds being held in prison since R,song that they even pressured the PT Gov to stand the bail for them, How that works out only Buddha knows.

Then you get to the time when the rank and file Reds followed the Instructions of their leaders with Megaphones at the burning of khonkaen,and Mukdahan City Halls. Some of the ignorant followers are now serving 20year plus prison terms,,And the Red leaders are very quite on the matter, Could it be that these high ranking Reds have Contracts in their pocket worth about 300 Million Baht to rebuild both City Halls,I do not feel sorry for these stupid people as the sentences well represent the crime,and so they should.I do feel angry however at Mrs Weng and the leadership of the Reds DDD leadership leaving these Wretched

Indeviduals to cope with these long sentences alone .No Government , DDD help for these stupid people.

phupaman.

[bigbamboo]

Seems like this days the governments have forgotten how to govern. All they do is fight among themselves and dirty politics.

Democrat want Pheu Thai out Pheu Thai want Democrats out, very similar to in US, Democrats don’t want republican and republican don’t work with Democrat

Let’s have both out and put people who work for the citizens

It also seems politicians here have forgotten how to debate. Now they just sue.

[kimamey]

But this would get rid of Abhisit as a party leader.

Since he is one of the few who can actually think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand. His very presence makes PTP look bad. It also means getting rid of the NAME Democratic party, leaving the democratic concept to be abused by the Reds with a clear field.

Of course this is just something someone thought up over a drinking session and the spokesman threw out to see how it would fly. The actual charge is a far stretch from possible conviction and much less than the typical lies told by TRT/PPP/PTP against the Dems.... kettle/teapot black and 100% bolocks to keep the lawyers getting paid for another year..

" think clearly on his feet and always makes points people can understand." are you serious?

Ok, in comparison.

But when I have heard him speak he has made perfect sense, even when under extreme pressure.

Can't say I have heard any other Thai Politician come across as clearly.

I can't say I understand Thai politics all that well but I must agree that Abhisit always seems a genuine guy. Of course I could be wrong but since I, like most other people don't understand the complexities of economics, security and all the other things that make up politics and the business of government I have to support someone who I feel I can trust. This support doesn't amount to much in Thailand as I don't have a vote but it's more practical in the UK where I live. I've never met any politician in Thailand nor do I understand the Thai language that well yet so I end up just basing my opinion on translations of what they say or what they do and how honest they seem.

Thaksin and Chalerm are 2 that I just can't take to. Yingluck I had hopes for but then if the intention had been for her to be a real PM then she would have started lower down and worked her way up.

When the democrats were in power I found Suthep as Dep PM something of a liability. but Abhisit seemed ok. Where I would disagree with him is in his and his party's use of the monarchy and HM in particular for their own advantage. The huge increase in LM cases under them would seem to have been just a way of dealing with opponents and trying to look good. Apart from physical security I don't think think HM needs protecting from criticism. Abhisit would know from his time in the UK that even with some MPs who think the UK should be a republic the monarchy seems as strong as ever. I'm sure the monarchy in Thailand is just as strong. Here using the monarchy for political gain simply isn't accepted but maybe that's just our different cultures. I certainly feel if he could be free from dubious party members and the shadow of the military hanging over him he could achieve a lot. Even in opposition the stronger a threat he could be the more pressure it would put on the present government.

[whybother]

I can't say I understand Thai politics all that well but I must agree that Abhisit always seems a genuine guy. Of course I could be wrong but since I, like most other people don't understand the complexities of economics, security and all the other things that make up politics and the business of government I have to support someone who I feel I can trust. This support doesn't amount to much in Thailand as I don't have a vote but it's more practical in the UK where I live. I've never met any politician in Thailand nor do I understand the Thai language that well yet so I end up just basing my opinion on translations of what they say or what they do and how honest they seem.

Thaksin and Chalerm are 2 that I just can't take to. Yingluck I had hopes for but then if the intention had been for her to be a real PM then she would have started lower down and worked her way up.

When the democrats were in power I found Suthep as Dep PM something of a liability. but Abhisit seemed ok. Where I would disagree with him is in his and his party's use of the monarchy and HM in particular for their own advantage. The huge increase in LM cases under them would seem to have been just a way of dealing with opponents and trying to look good. Apart from physical security I don't think think HM needs protecting from criticism. Abhisit would know from his time in the UK that even with some MPs who think the UK should be a republic the monarchy seems as strong as ever. I'm sure the monarchy in Thailand is just as strong. Here using the monarchy for political gain simply isn't accepted but maybe that's just our different cultures. I certainly feel if he could be free from dubious party members and the shadow of the military hanging over him he could achieve a lot. Even in opposition the stronger a threat he could be the more pressure it would put on the present government.

Politicians have no say in who gets charged with LM. Someone makes a complaint and the police are obliged to investigate and charge the "offender".

Some of the reasons for the large increase in LM charges are conspiracy theories regarding certain peoples involvement in the coup, the Democrats coming to power and the 2010 riots, with the main reason for the increase being the ability of people to air these theories on the internet.

Politicians are too scared to make any changes to the law because of the backlash. Abhisit did suggest a review of the law before the election, but the PTP don't want to touch it (not surprisingly). What was a surprise was the PTP spending 400 mil baht on a "war room" to search for LM content on the internet.

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[anterian]

The problem with Thai politics is the way in which politicians become MPs, it is a mixture of graft, corruption, money and connections, this applies to all parties. Some by sheer good fortune (from the national viewpoint), do have some ability, most are just lame ducks, some are a real liability. This pattern repeats at all levels of society, even at the village committee level. Abhisit impresses many farangs by his Oxford education and his ability to speak clear English, but this is just the icing on the cake, he can talk a good talk but rarely walks a good walk, at heart he is still a self seeking Thai. Indeed his Eton, Oxford background actually fosters elitism, if you are English you will know what I mean. Thaksin for some reason could establish a rapport with the poor, Abhisit patently cannot, yet neither in my opinion have the interests of the poor and the nation in their hearts.

Thailand is not an egalitarian society, the idea of a Prince being charged with speeding would be unthinkable here, yet has happened in England, Thai elite are untouchable, except by other elite and this is what Thai politics boils down to, one group of elite versus another, not for the benefit of the nation but for the benefit of the group members. But all the elite are united in one common objective, that is to keep the rest uninformed and unaware.

We see this in the use of the LM law, the pathetic education system, the impractical populist vote buying decrees, the highly doctored history of Thailand including the reintroduction of past or invented ceremonies, and above all the engender Xenophobia and superiority complex towards other races.

I may seem a Red supporter, but I am not, I do support the concept, but not their immediate targets and methods. I am not sure where the answer lies, many have said the truly able first class Thais either move abroad or do not get involved in politics, I am inclined to agree, Thailand is run by those with second class ability.

Edited March 14, 2012 by anterian