UK pensions

[mrmazinkle]

To all UK pensioners or future pensioners I kindly ask you to read and sign the online petition for pension parity.

Edit: This thread was initially started to request that members sign the e-petition for pension parity, IE to unfreeze pensions.

That e-petition is no longer available, it's past its closing date and did not reach the required numbers to be considered by the relevant Parliamentary Committee.

The thread is being kept open, as it's of interest to affected members, to provide updated information on UK Pension issues.

I have edited the thread from the 160 pages, it once reached, to it's current level, most the posts were out of date or were just the same posts with the same links posted over and over again, usually with a one liner added on.

This is an important issue which is of interest to many of us, can I ask that posts are kept snappy and on topic and you resist the urge to simply hit the quote button.

Thanks

Edited August 14, 2014 by theoldgit
Information on deleted posts.

[smokie36]

Isn't it possible to move back to the UK for a few months...get your pension back in line then head back to Thailand?

Worth doing perhaps every few years...

[Daffy D]

Isn't it possible to move back to the UK for a few months...get your pension back in line then head back to Thailand?

Worth doing perhaps every few years...

While back in the UK you will get full pension with all entitlements but on moving back to Thailand your pension reverts to what it was on the initial claim.

Sorry they got you all ways.

:-(

[exeter]

For all the contributors on this thread who do not wish to sign the petition and possibly right a wrong, for those who seem to indicate they will somehow be able to live with out recourse to the state pension, its up to you to claim it and my bet is that all of you will claim it. Its not insignificant and its wrong that the government should tell you, a free man ( or woman ) where you can live or not live. Its a bit like saying if you live in Newcastle you can have the pension but if you move to Bournemouth you can also get it but wont get any inflationary rises. I say this on a national level as oppossed to the international situation that prevails to point out that you should not be told where you choose to live when you get to pensionable age.

For those who carp about the cost in total including the British economy there is a very simple solution, take it out of the Overseas Aid Budget which again does not do much for the British Economy and is often given to countries would not need it, some admit to that ( but why look a gift horse in the mouth?)or some regimes that are being propped up year after year because they cannot get their act together, perhaps they have no incentive too?

[chrisinth]

Isn't it possible to move back to the UK for a few months...get your pension back in line then head back to Thailand?

Worth doing perhaps every few years...

I've thought of this too, but I suspect they will return you to the amount you were receiving before you went back to the UK, i.e. back to square one, you only get the increase while you are in the UK. Not sure about this, but I'd bet on it!

I believe that after you inform them that you are back in UK, you will be entitled to the current rate of pension for the duration of your visit, and once you have left again for Thailand you revert back to your original pension.

We used to have a chap living up here who, to be perfectly truthful was too honest for his own good. The person in question was ex-forces (WW11 vet) and then worked for years for BT. He used to go back to UK two times a year, and before he would leave, he would send the pension people a letter to let them know how long he would be back for and when he intended returning to Thailand, as he had declared himself as ex-pat and this was the right thing to do.

He still had property and family in England and from what I understood in those days he was spending enough time in UK a year (his trips were generally 2-3 weeks at a time) to claim for the whole pension. Now I am a great believer in following the law, sometimes close to the line, but regardless following it.

In this persons case, mainly through pride, he chose to be honest with his government. Whereas I have nothing but admiration for his beliefs, I still think he was stupid in what he did and not claim what I believe he was entitled to. He was not a rich man, but he got by on his forces/BT & reduced state pension.

His choice followed him to the grave as for the pension his spouse received when he passed away.

Hence my little rant earlier in this thread about pensioners staying at home and using Thailand as a holiday location. Just wanted to clear that one out.

[fletchsmile]

I made this point before, but got nil support.

Pensioners living in the UK will likely plough ALL their money back into the economy there, buying their food and paying tax such as VAT.

Ex-pats, by definition will put most of their pension into the coffers of their country of choice.

I agree with the existing situation.

I agree this is a very valid reason. Expanding your argument further, it's about more than just taxes.

Money spent in the UK has a "multiplier effect" on the UK economy. i.e you spend a pound, and the recipient of that pound in turn will likely spend at least part of that pound on buying something else from someone else, who in turn spends and so on. The result is greater domestic demand and a stronger UK economy which creates jobs for people who in turn spend money and are less reliant on the state. The result: many benefits to the UK + the whole country ends up in a better place. Looked at another way a pension spent in the UK costs the government less than a pension spent in Thailand

On the other hand a pensioner spending their pension in Thailand benefits the Thai economy, and creates Thai jobs etc, with no real benefit to UK. The UK already gives away far too much to non-UK nationals that it shouldn't do. The country is in bad shape financially, and struggling with its debts.

Also to be borne in mind:

- For people who say they have paid all their lives into the UK system. Remember 1) they contributed nothing for the first 16 years or so of their lives 2) They have had other non-pension benefits already, such as healthcare 3) The UK system doesn't save their money for the future in a magic pot somewhere, they spend it as it comes in. 4) Everyone knows existing workers (partly) fund existing pensioners, which is becoming more and more unsustainable each day + 5) Why should existing workers in the UK be creating jobs in Thailand which could actually take away jobs in their own country. Thailand sets a fine example of nationalism and protectionism and generally gives little or zero in policies that really benefit foreigners.

- The overseas pensioner usually knows the rules of the game and it's their choice to live in Thailand

- If pensions for overseas people not contributing any longer to the UK were increased, the government would simply take it off other needy areas of society. It's not as if they have a large pot of money as an excess. The UK spends more than it earns. In all likelihood, they'd reduce all pensioners over time rather than increase. eg when they equalised pension ages for men and women, all that happened is everyone ended up with a worse deal and lowest comoon denominator over time

If thinking only of myself and my family, I'd be in favour of equalising the pensions so I personally get more.

Looking at the bigger picture, and with a little less self interest, it's probably better for the UK I get a lower pension, and it goes to the people in the UK that need it, and benefits the UK. I knew the score when I signed up. I don't contribute much to the UK these days, so why should I get handouts of people I've never met.

(BTW That's no excuse for the government to continue wasting money in the ways it does, and not looking after its own nationals at the expense of foreigners in many other areas too)

[Tafia]

British expat pensions are frozen in more than 40 countries. You could easily mistake a list of them for one of expat hotspots. It includes Australia, Brazil, Japan, Singapore, Thailand and Hong Kong, plus most of the Caribbean and all of Africa. In fact there are only 13 countries outside the EU where UK pensions are uprated.

The policy (in many cases combined with loss of free public healthcare) is a major obstacle to retirees moving overseas. Bear in mind a basic state pension is worth only GBP 102.15 a week.

The British government usually trots out two main arguments in defense of pension freezes:

• Most countries outside the EU refuse to sign reciprocal treaties with the UK.
  

• It’s not fiscally prudent to uprate pensions.
  

5 pages of everyone stating the obvious and arguing or criticising each other because of some are wealthy some are not. This freezing of the state pension is not a new thing it goes back years.

So instead of writing the same thing over and over on TV write to your MP, get your friends to write and badger them, they are the only people who can change it!!

Remember the majority of us here have not emigrated we are and remain "Non Immigrants" which requires a Visa or an extension to. Expats who emigrate are not in this category. Something the UK Government chooses to overlook.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Tafia

[nocturn]

this really does have sweet jack shit to do with thailand

[evadgib]

this really does have sweet jack shit to do with thailand

Unless you're:

a) An affected pensioner, or

b )Considering living in Thailand in later life or

c) Married or otherwise related to anyone in a) or b ).

With an estimated 56k long term Brits resident in Thailand I totally disagree.

Edited March 16, 2012 by evadgib

[endure]

Have to add though, that when I retired here I had been assured by the tax people that no tax would be payable on the private pension. We moved here, tax was deducted and, querying it, were told the advice we had been given was wrong...

You pay tax on all income generated in the UK once you've used up your personal allowance.

Edited March 16, 2012 by endure

[Kwasaki]

Well that looks like that then, until the next time!

Then we will do it all again, or will we?

Seriously I wouldn't know what to put in a PM, at this present moment in time in the UK with the ongoing financial world crisis, the problems in Europe etc, could or would you expect an MP getting up in the house with UK citizens facing job loses and cuts and putting the question :-

" I want all UK pensioners living abroad who have had their pensions frozen in certain countries where have chose to live to have all their backdated rises not received, paid in full and annual increases given."

Can you picture the response, I don't think any consideration would be given or the fact that :-

They don't get use of the NHS ambulance services or doctors in the UK.

They don't get to use free bus & train passes.

They don't get any winter payment allowances.

They don't get the use of our police force.

Our fire service etc.

I wouldn't think there would be any support from pensioners stuck in the UK either.

The response would be " More Money What they don't have contribute 44 years now only 30 years, they don't pay Purchase TAX or V.A.T. in the UK." " Sit down you fool " " Next ".

I do feel sorry for some especially the ones who wanted to stay in Thailand but was left no choice but to go back home, the fact it would end up costing the UK more because of it, would not even be brought up.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Kwasaki

[fletchsmile]

On a practical level: The UK is drowning in debt. The UK's debt works out around GBP 80,000 for each working Brit. As almost everyone knows, state pensions are paid out of current contributions from workers, there is no pot set aside were contributions are kept for the future.

So where do people think this additional money would come from?

When people talk of keeping it in the public eye, lobbying MPs etc, apart from pensioners living abroad or those expecting to do in the future, I can't see many people interested in this or supporting it. Kids can't vote and don't pay tax. UK pensioners would be no better off, and a good chance their own pensions would lose out in future increases to pay for it. Workers are already overburdened and the number of workers per pensioner in constant decline. Their future pensions continue to be worth less and less and are accessed at higher ages.

It's not unreasonable for a worker in the UK to expect a state pension. But how much it will be worth, when they get it and what increases if any, are all ideas that are increasingly recognised as a lottery for everyone.

Brits here have the choice: 1) Go back and support the UK be part of UK life and get the pension increases 2) Choose another country with reciprocal arrangements or 3) stay in Thailand not contributing to the UK and receiving a lower pension as a result.

Unlikely those in the UK will want to pay for someone else's days in the sun in Thailand when they're already scraping to get by back home.

Edited March 21, 2012 by fletchsmile

[bendix]

I remain of the opinion that my NI contributions mirrored those payed by pensioners currently living in UK/EU or favoured countries therefore I will be short changed upon attaining pensionable age.

And I remain of the view - because it's a fact, not a view - that your NI contributions were insurance premiums which covered you for a huge range of benefits including unemployment, national health service, maternity cover, funeral benefits etc etc, and that the state pension is a very small part of that.

The sooner people stop thinking of NI contributions as a personal pension plan with a pot of money allocated to them somewhere in the government's coffers, the better.

Furthermore, talking about websites originating in 1995 is nonsense. It is encumbent upon anyone likely to be relying on the state pension to enquire themselves about the impact of leaving the country on that pension when they are considering leaving.

How can it be anyone else's responsibility? All it takes is a call to the relevant authorities.

What do people want? Do they expect the immigration officer who stamps you out at LHR to ask every Brit:

1) Are you leaving to emigrate?

2) Do you think you'll rely on the UK state pension?

3) Do you know that it will be frozen in certain countries.

Come on people - it's your life, it's your future - take responsibility for it yourselves.

Edited March 23, 2012 by bendix

[MiG16]

I have pinned this topic

any other threads started to discuss UK pension issues will be closed

to make this thread most useful, please make sure you all keep this one ONLY UK pension funds related.

(sorry that means the humorous posts will have to stop on this thread)

[MiG16]

let me remind everyone nicely

enough of the off topic posts and the bickering.

any more of such posts, and this thread will be closed. which means no more discussions of non thai related issues

[cardholder]

Expats on the other hand, have little sympathy and this issue is unlikely to cost many votes.

Precisely . . in fact I reckon the opposite is true. Not only would there be little sympathy for overseas expats (and thus little political capital to be gained from championing the cause) but there could even be an envious backlash which would be very damaging to the prospect of changing the law.

Not often I agree with you Bendix , but I think you're 100% right about this point.

Edit - we could end up losing our pension entitlement entirely!

I wasn't going to mention the last point for fear of being accused of being callous and smug etc, but that is a real possibility in my view. In the eyes of struggling pensioners at home, I can't see much sympathy being extended towards a bunch of expat pensioners who, from those left behind, will be living the life of riley in the sunshine.

As for agreeing with me, F1, don't let it trouble you too much.

It feels grubby I know, but it shows remarkably good sense on your part, even if you don't like it.

Blimey!

Peace in Our Time all over again.......................

[transam]

And there's me thinking your in your 60's, with your overwhelming posting interest in pensioners plight.

And your point is?

I can't think of a better age than mid 40s to be interested in pensions, can you?

In fact, if EVERYONE thought about their pensions in their 40s, the entire pensions predicament wouldnt be an issue at all because everyone would be informed, prepared and quite comfortable.

Your post(s) have nothing to do with NOW old guys with this topic. You can crack on aaaalllllllll day long telling folk here how well off you are and only in your forties, and don't EVEN want the UK pension. If rubbing the noses in the dirt of old guys is your thing, hmmm, well, think you should start your own topic.

You remind me of a Harry Enfield sketch, ''I'm considerably richer than you''. .

[Kwasaki]

Sorry to break up some of the just a quick one, for guys having there pension paid already, my pension is due, papers on the way, does it start payment on your birthday or 4 weeks later. K.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Kwasaki

[theoldgit]

As I understand it you are eligible to be paid your State Pension when you reach the ripe old age of 65, at the moment, it is then paid every four weeks, or whatever period you request, in arrears.

I reached 65 in March, I requested a five week deferral to ensure I get this years increase, + 1%, I sent my form off on the 5th January and I have heard nothing yet.

I did get a letter from the HMRC reminding me that my pension is liable for tax and to let them know as soon as my pension amount is confirmed.

Edited April 3, 2012 by theoldgit

[Kwasaki]

As I understand it you are eligible to be paid your State Pension when you reach the ripe old age of 65, at the moment, it is then paid every four weeks, or whatever period you request, in arrears.

I reached 65 in March, I requested a five week deferral to ensure I get this years increase, + 1%, I sent my form off on the 5th January and I have heard nothing yet.

I did get a letter from the HMRC reminding me that my pension is liable for tax and to let them know as soon as my pension amount is confirmed.

Thanks and hope things go well for you I wouldn't mind being in a position to have to pay tax but very unlikey.

What I would like to know is pension payment made on your birthday or the 4 weeks later. ?

[theoldgit]

What I would like to know is pension payment made on your birthday or the 4 weeks later. ?

As I sais it's becomes payable on your birthday, and it's paid every four weeks in arrears.

So if your birthday was today you would get paid four weeks pension on 1st May. They do say that the first payment may be a little early or late, they've only had 65 years to get it right.

I don't mind paying tax, it's all in a good cause.

[theoldgit]

I will also go back for 3 months every year to make them pay me the upgraded amount whilst in the UK

I don't know what the minimum period you can claim your uplift when you visit the UK is, but even I only go for a month I intend to claim. It will probably only nett me six quid after tax, but for the buggeration factor alone it will be worth it.

[Kwasaki]

What I would like to know is pension payment made on your birthday or the 4 weeks later. ?

As I sais it's becomes payable on your birthday, and it's paid every four weeks in arrears.

So if your birthday was today you would get paid four weeks pension on 1st May. They do say that the first payment may be a little early or late, they've only had 65 years to get it right.

I don't mind paying tax, it's all in a good cause.

Thanks for that, just planning for the day.

[billd766]

What I would like to know is pension payment made on your birthday or the 4 weeks later. ?

As I sais it's becomes payable on your birthday, and it's paid every four weeks in arrears.

So if your birthday was today you would get paid four weeks pension on 1st May. They do say that the first payment may be a little early or late, they've only had 65 years to get it right.

I don't mind paying tax, it's all in a good cause.

Actually it will be transferred to a nominated UK bank account on the Friday of every 4th working week i.e the next 4th working week for April will be week 16 so the pension will be paid into a UK bank account on 20th April.

The next payment in May will be the Friday of week 20 or 18th of May and so on.

In November you will get 2 payments as week 44 is 2nd November and week 48 is 30th November and week 52 is 28 December but that may be paid earlier due to CHristmas.

If you pension is paid direct to a Thai bank it is normally in on the Tuesday following but sometimes the Monday, unless there is a Thai bank holiday.

[theoldgit]

The government uses a different bank to transfer the pension and if you don't tell them they will buy THB in the UK and transfer that so you will get less pension as the charge for money change in the UK will be paid by you.

I think you will find that the pension will only be paid in Baht if you have it paid into a Thai bank, I don't think they will send GBP.

My Civil Service Pension is paid the same way, I did ask that my pension was paid in GBP but I was advised that it's a contractual obligation with the Cabinet Office to purchase the local currency in the UK.

I'm better off having my Civil Service Pension paid into my IOM bank, even allowing for the £20 transmission fee, my State Pension will also go into my IOM account.

[fletchsmile]

So it's OK for a farang, who marries a Thai for her to be entitled to everything in the UK that she paid nothing into. ?

BUT you miss the point, all the countries on the UK reciprocal list pay sod all BACK to the UK. My American uncle worked in UK for 10 years and paid tax and NI, he worked for an American Company. HE gets a % UK pension, he's NOT BRITISH. HE LAUGHS cos UK not take care of their own, rather take care of paperwork.

For Thai spouses my personal view is that if they have never contributed anything to the UK, nor even lived in the UK for any significant period of time, then I don't see why they should be entitled to it. If on the other hand they have lived in the UK, and contributed in some way for several years, then fair enough providing this is reciprocal with their own country. That's just my view though and what I think is fair. I appreciate other people see it differently

No I don't miss the point, there are reciprocal arrangements arrangements where a UK national having worked in the US would be entitled to US social security benefits, even if they return to their own country, providing certain conditions are met. Perhaps your uncle has some non-US citizen friends who laugh back at him in return. You might want to mention this to him next time you chat about it, and below is a link you can give him

http://www.foreignborn.com/self-help/social_sec/10faqs.htm

[exeter]

Pensions are a nightmare to understand IDS is correct, as I am on old money I will not qualify for the new rates which seem ok for future retirees, only time will tell if they are what you expected. We would all like more and more is never enough is it we would all like to live a life of luxury but the truth is we have a pot and we have to make it go round.

I think we all agree it goes round better here than in the UK, the weather is better here, the food is good, the beer selection is poor compared to the UK. If I could change 2 things in Thailand it would be to sort out the driving standards and deal with rubbish properly, not dumping it and burning it, ( forgot about the beer! Make it 3) But we cannot change the way things are here so we have to accept the way things are we and make a choice of where we live, we have all made that choice, I think the right choice. Dont expect the freezing of the annual increase of pensions to happen anytime soon, there are too many other pension issues that need to be dealt with before that and speed is not of the essence! Have a nice day.

Edited April 6, 2012 by exeter

[theoldgit]

If the pension is deferred until after the new system, then it would be paid at the old rate, but slightly higher due to the deferment.

Currently if you defer drawing your State Pension you are paid the rate applicable at the date you claim, not the date you initially become eligible.

I don't know if that rule will apply when the new system comes in.

[chiang mai]

Here's an article that's certain to stir up a few ex-pat pensioners: it seems the UK government is considering putting state pensions into the PAYE system, taxed at source with recovery of tax paid via the self assessment process, apparently it's the front runner of all the options to simplify the tax system for pensioners, sounds to me like an easy way to for the government to boost its coffers more quickly.

http://www.independe...ii-7627520.html

[Kwasaki]

Has anyone made a claim online in Thailand for the UK state pension using Gov/Gateway or is phoning from Thailand the best way to go.

Regards K