UK pensions

[nong38]

The HMG attitude to frozen pensions seems to be shared by the Australian Gvt as well from what I have been told by Aussies. Seems like the world politicians club share their ideas on tax (incoming receipts ) and how to avoid paying money out ( expenditure ).

Are politicians legalized crooks one wonders? What sort of people dream up these ideas?

[green job]

The HMG attitude to frozen pensions seems to be shared by the Australian Gvt as well from what I have been told by Aussies. Seems like the world politicians club share their ideas on tax (incoming receipts ) and how to avoid paying money out ( expenditure ).

Are politicians legalized crooks one wonders? What sort of people dream up these ideas?

Politicians is the answer, yes legalized crooks

[loppylugs1]

The HMG attitude to frozen pensions seems to be shared by the Australian Gvt as well from what I have been told by Aussies. Seems like the world politicians club share their ideas on tax (incoming receipts ) and how to avoid paying money out ( expenditure ).

Are politicians legalized crooks one wonders? What sort of people dream up these ideas?

Think its 13 weeks then pension starts getting reduced,not for all though

[sandyf]

...and this thread is about what, any more!

It remains dedicated to UK Pensions.

Service & War disability pensions, along with eligibility to NHS treatment for some conditions relating to the latter fall firmly within that category & if you look carefully at recent posts you'll see that there are subtle references confirming it. For those that may have missed it there are posters from all 3 services within the age range of 50-80 contributing to this board, inc some that did National Service.

Their 'normal' pensions are frozen.

HTH

Not only were servicemen subject to the governments pension conditions they were also subject to the military rulings which had more twists and turns than a bag of worms.

When I signed up, because of trade and training, there were only 2 options available. That was 9 years plus 3 in the reserve or a straight 12 years. There was no pensionable engagement available, I believe that they were only available to officers on enlistment.

One of the best decisions of my life was the take the 12, Many in my entry that took the 9 + 3 never received the deferred pension as their time was up before it came in.

I was quite fortunate but it is quite scandalous the way service pensions were dealt with say in comparison to the civil service. As I said previously I doubt very much if the petition that was raised over pre 75 service will ever produce a result.

[billd766]

Sandy, I was in a similar position to you when I signed up in 1960 except that I was Boy Entrant of 15 1/2 years and given the 2 options I took the 9 +3.

Fortunately for me while I was serving in Singapore I applied to sign on to complete 22 years mans service and it was granted.

So I get 22/37 ths of the full rate of pension that I would have got if I stayed in until I was 55.

When I came out at age 40 I commuted the maximum amount of pension that I could so that I could buy a house and the commutation lasted 15 years until I was 55 when the full rate was restored.

The 2 1/2 years I served as a Boy an man until my 18th birthday was ignored.

[nong38]

I have always had and always will have the utmost respect for the UK armed services, Second to none, but dont think it entitles you a to a free beer if you catch me! Mines a pint of Sang Som in case you ask!!

[Jip99]

I have always had and always will have the utmost respect for the UK armed services, Second to none, but dont think it entitles you a to a free beer if you catch me! Mines a pint of Sang Som in case you ask!!

Only a pint ?

Cutting down in your old age...................... ?

[billd766]

I have always had and always will have the utmost respect for the UK armed services, Second to none, but dont think it entitles you a to a free beer if you catch me! Mines a pint of Sang Som in case you ask!!

I will be down for a 90 day report on Thursday and I will buy you a pint of SangSom but only if you can yam sing or down it in one go just like us real servicemen used to.

If you can manage that there is an interesting dance involving toilet paper, matches, the removal of some articles of clothing and copious pints of tinned Tenants lager that I remember well.

Not to be performed in fornt of children, animals and those of a nervous disposition.

[nong38]

I have always had and always will have the utmost respect for the UK armed services, Second to none, but dont think it entitles you a to a free beer if you catch me! Mines a pint of Sang Som in case you ask!!

I will be down for a 90 day report on Thursday and I will buy you a pint of SangSom but only if you can yam sing or down it in one go just like us real servicemen used to.

If you can manage that there is an interesting dance involving toilet paper, matches, the removal of some articles of clothing and copious pints of tinned Tenants lager that I remember well.

Not to be performed in fornt of children, animals and those of a nervous disposition.

Bill I have to drive on Thursday! Got get 50kilos of rice, enough to last for my visit to Blighty so will have turn you down but dont forget Armando is back open from today, so give him a go........Sang Som........dijaridou...dancing the mind buggles!!

[JockPieandBeans]

If you can manage that there is an interesting dance involving toilet paper, matches, the removal of some articles of clothing and copious pints of tinned Tenants lager that I remember well.

Brilliant

I thank you, I thank you. I thank you.

Few civilians will ever understand.

Dulcet tones of '' Get them down you Zulu Warrior ''

Edited April 22, 2015 by JockPieandBeans

[sandyf]

Sandy, I was in a similar position to you when I signed up in 1960 except that I was Boy Entrant of 15 1/2 years and given the 2 options I took the 9 +3.

Fortunately for me while I was serving in Singapore I applied to sign on to complete 22 years mans service and it was granted.

So I get 22/37 ths of the full rate of pension that I would have got if I stayed in until I was 55.

When I came out at age 40 I commuted the maximum amount of pension that I could so that I could buy a house and the commutation lasted 15 years until I was 55 when the full rate was restored.

The 2 1/2 years I served as a Boy an man until my 18th birthday was ignored.

I tried to join in the summer of 63, about 15 3/4 then, but got deferred and went to Halton in Jan 64 as an apprentice instrument fitter. I also extended to 22 when in Germany in 74. I got married in 76 and came under pressure to leave as it looked like I was destined for Lossiemouth. When I made enquiries about leaving I was told that if I did not fulfill my initial engagement then I would lose the deferred pension. I had to wait about 9 months and a couple of days after my birthday I applied for discharge, took about 3 weeks and I came out Sept 77. I had to borrow the £180 to get out and then they gave me £1200 terminal grant and deferred pension of 12/37 full pension at the age of 60.

The time before 18 does nothing for the service pension but some of it is in the graduated pensions component of your state pension, I think from 17 1/2.

[evadgib]

Further to post no 888; Here's a redacted copy of correspondence between self & the Tory candidate in the same constituency:

Dear ***************

Thank you for taking the time to email me. I would like to respond to each of your queries as you have listed them:

FROZEN PENSIONS

I do appreciate that this is an issue people feel very strongly about. As you point out, overseas residents are not normally entitled to pension up-rating, unless a relevant treaty or agreement exists. It is the policy of the recent Government, and has been the policy of successive governments, not to enter into new agreements with countries or territories where this would include up-rating pensions in order to contain the long-term cost of the UK social security system and ensure that it remains affordable. To do so would cost hundreds of millions of pounds at a time when the pressure on a welfare system is considerable and when we are asking many people who live in the UK to make sacrifices. I can pass on that this issue has been examined extensively by the domestic courts, culminating in a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights in 2010. In all these cases the courts have found in favour of the Government. I appreciate this is not what you wanted to hear, but I hope this helps explain the reasoning behind these difficult decisions.

ELECTORAL DISENFRANCHISEMENT

I believe we have already corresponded on this issue and, as you know, the previous government reduced the time British citizens were able to be out of the country and entitled to vote to 15 years. The Conservative Party recognises that this is not fair and it has pledged that a future Conservative Government will remove this cap and extend full voting rights to all British overseas voters for life.

USE OF SECURE TECHNOLOGY

You make an interesting point on this issue. As Parliament is dissolved and there are no MPs, I will happily pass on your queries to an appropriate colleague once the election is over.

Best wishes and enjoy the good life in Thailand!

<Minister in the last Govt/Household name>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Letter to all candidates contesting the seat, CC local media>:

Dear *****************,

As an undecided voter with a vote in your constituency I respectfully seek your party's intentions re the following:

1. Frozen Pensions: The 'Freezing' of state pensions for Brits who chose to live outside the European Union or 7 other places with which Britain has a reciprocal agreement. Almost 600k British Citizens are currently affected by this, many of whom live in Commonwealth countries. What changes can they expect from your party during the next Parliament?

2. Electoral Disenfranchisement: The same group currently lose the right to vote after 15 years. 600k people equate to 4 average Parliamentary constituencies and is simply too large to ignore. Will you party overturn this during the next Parliament?

3. Use of Secure Technology: In the 21st century there are easier ways to collate votes than the archaic manner in which it is done at present. What can your party offer the electorate who 5 years from now may find themselves in say Alice Springs, Pitcairn Island or in the British Antarctic territory?

I wish you all the best for 07 May.

Sincerely,

Edited April 25, 2015 by evadgib

[nong38]

Further to post no 888; Here's a redacted copy of correspondence between self & the Tory candidate in the same constituency:

Dear ***************

Thank you for taking the time to email me. I would like to respond to each of your queries as you have listed them:

FROZEN PENSIONS

I do appreciate that this is an issue people feel very strongly about. As you point out, overseas residents are not normally entitled to pension up-rating, unless a relevant treaty or agreement exists. It is the policy of the recent Government, and has been the policy of successive governments, not to enter into new agreements with countries or territories where this would include up-rating pensions in order to contain the long-term cost of the UK social security system and ensure that it remains affordable. To do so would cost hundreds of millions of pounds at a time when the pressure on a welfare system is considerable and when we are asking many people who live in the UK to make sacrifices. I can pass on that this issue has been examined extensively by the domestic courts, culminating in a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights in 2010. In all these cases the courts have found in favour of the Government. I appreciate this is not what you wanted to hear, but I hope this helps explain the reasoning behind these difficult decisions.

ELECTORAL DISENFRANCHISEMENT

I believe we have already corresponded on this issue and, as you know, the previous government reduced the time British citizens were able to be out of the country and entitled to vote to 15 years. The Conservative Party recognises that this is not fair and it has pledged that a future Conservative Government will remove this cap and extend full voting rights to all British overseas voters for life.

USE OF SECURE TECHNOLOGY

You make an interesting point on this issue. As Parliament is dissolved and there are no MPs, I will happily pass on your queries to an appropriate colleague once the election is over.

Best wishes and enjoy the good life in Thailand!

<Minister in the last Govt/Household name>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Letter to all candidates contesting the seat, CC local media>:

Dear *****************,

As an undecided voter with a vote in your constituency I respectfully seek your party's intentions re the following:

1. Frozen Pensions: The 'Freezing' of state pensions for Brits who chose to live outside the European Union or 7 other places with which Britain has a reciprocal agreement. Almost 600k British Citizens are currently affected by this, many of whom live in Commonwealth countries. What changes can they expect from your party during the next Parliament?

2. Electoral Disenfranchisement: The same group currently lose the right to vote after 15 years. 600k people equate to 4 average Parliamentary constituencies and is simply too large to ignore. Will you party overturn this during the next Parliament?

3. Use of Secure Technology: In the 21st century there are easier ways to collate votes than the archaic manner in which it is done at present. What can your party offer the electorate who 5 years from now may find themselves in say Alice Springs, Pitcairn Island or in the British Antarctic territory?

I wish you all the best for 07 May.

Sincerely,

Pretty much the answer you would expect, but, I do detect a touch of sympathy with his reply, however, a reciprical agreement is not what is required, what needs to change is clause 20 of the latest Pension Bill, which would be easy if we had enough supporters.

The question which really needs to be asked is why after a lifetime of paying taxes and NI am I being treated differently to a UK pensioner who has paid exactly the same contributions? No one has ever informed me verbally or writing that I would discriminated against should I retire abroad outside of the UK if I made an unwise choice.

If that question is asked then it does back the recipient into a corner, where they will wriggle and squirm until they can run away, they know it s wrong and they hide behind any shelter they can not to have to justify taking your money and then being economical when you thought you were going to get it back. It is indefencable.

[i claudius]

I am sorry but we will not get the upgrades because

1/there are too many scroungers on the dole or "disabled"

2/far to many immegrants claiming benifits

3/ far to much needed for overseas aid(we should be in that category)

4/to many EU workers in theUK claiming for families living away in other E.U countrys

WE DO NOT COUNT Blair proved that when aided by the Labour govt(the peoples party) he fought tooth and nail right up to the court of human rights in the E.U not to pay us .

just do what so many do and keep an address in the UK what will they do ? they cannot by law stop your pension ,check it up on the govt website.

[evadgib]

As stated by many on this board; 'Freezing' will eventually be overturned & replaced with a 'one size/fits all' pension that applies worldwide and isn't backdated, save perhaps for the over 80/85s. The only thing that isn't clear is when. This will enable a future Govt to sell the idea to Sun readers ( 'look, we're keeping a further 600k entitled users away from the NHS etc. You too can join 'em when you retire if you wish!') while also keeping them cosy with expat voters and the Govts of Canada, Oz etc that are currently bailing them out.

Until then the letter writing & media awareness has to continue. If anyone hasn't got off their arse yet can i suggest they please do so?

Edited April 26, 2015 by evadgib

[Liquorice]

I am sorry but we will not get the upgrades because

1/there are too many scroungers on the dole or "disabled"

2/far to many immegrants claiming benifits

3/ far to much needed for overseas aid(we should be in that category)

4/to many EU workers in theUK claiming for families living away in other E.U countrys

WE DO NOT COUNT Blair proved that when aided by the Labour govt(the peoples party) he fought tooth and nail right up to the court of human rights in the E.U not to pay us .

just do what so many do and keep an address in the UK what will they do ? they cannot by law stop your pension ,check it up on the govt website.

Got to correct you there Claudius!

Part of that is a myth.......let's blame the foreigners.

2. Immigrants have 'no recourse to public funds'. They have husbands, wives, family who sponsor them and are financially responsible for them. That is all part of the Immigration process to get a Settlement Visa for the UK, and they have to learn to speak English as well.

(Imagine if we had to be sponsored and learn Thai to migrate to Thailand)

4. By the same reciprocal EU agreements, UK workers can also claim the same benefits for their families. Their are thousands of HM Services personnel alone that live and work in Europe and are legally entitled to benefits from the UK and the EU Country they live in.

You didn't mention Asylum Seekers, who cannot claim benefits, but are well cared for. Now they do cost the taxpayer a lot of money.

It takes a minimum of 5 years to check their reason for claiming Asylum, then a few more years to get a new passport from their home Country, because the Asylum seeker often destroys his/her passport and gives false names and origins making it harder to investigate.

Some are genuine, many are not.

I could go on, but..............off topic, sorry.

I blame the EU Court of Human Rights, who will support the rights of anyone living in the EU, but not the rights of EU members living outside the EU. In my opinion the chances of overseas UK Pensioners getting their pensions uplifted will be greater if the UK leaves the EU and stops being dictated to.

[i claudius]

Faz

sorry yes it was asylum seekers i was alluding to eg illegal immegrants. also i would add that there are far more E.U immegrants in Britain ,claiming than there are Brits say working in Romania ,or even POland and claiming for children back in Britain.

Edited April 26, 2015 by i claudius

[nong38]

So we can safely assume that the ECHR are part of the cosy little club, or perhaps an off shoot of the politicians league ( " look if you let this through it will open the floodgates and there will be no money to run the HMRC!"). I love my expenses and there are no bigger expenses than being in the EU!

[billd766]

I got a letter from the taxman this week and it seems that I owe them £30.80 to be paid by 31 January 2015.

I will phone them later and sort that out but here is a link to the income tax rates payable which may help some people.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates

Another one for self assessment tax returns.

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns

One here for HMRC contact numbers and some very useful contact numbers for non resident landlords

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact

Self assessment tax contact numbers

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/self-assessment-online-services-helpdesk

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/self-assessment

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/self-assessment-payment

[nontabury]

Slightly off topic. I spent a lot of time and effort to make sure I was on the electoral roll, and this was confirmed by the electoral officer. My question is should I have already received the voting papers by now?

[evadgib]

My understanding under their archaic system is that ballot papers are not even dispatched on their outward journey until 4 days before the election. If this proves correct I will scan & send a completed copy to the electorial officer in my constituancy electronically and insist that it be added to the result, and will send the full monty inc all re-registration correspondance to the party HQ of the silver medalist in my constituancy in the hope that they go sabre rattling.

Having a late vote is worse than not having one at all & was a collosal waste of time and money by HMG.

Edited April 30, 2015 by evadgib

[JockPieandBeans]

Slightly off topic. I spent a lot of time and effort to make sure I was on the electoral roll, and this was confirmed by the electoral officer. My question is should I have already received the voting papers by now?

Hopefully you are not registered in one of these 2 constituencies.

A van containing more than 200,000 ballot papers destined for polls in East Sussex has been stolen.

The papers had been printed in London and were being taken to two constituencies - Hastings and Rye and Eastbourne - ahead of voting in the general election on 7 May.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-england-32517842

[Eff1n2ret]

Slightly off topic. I spent a lot of time and effort to make sure I was on the electoral roll, and this was confirmed by the electoral officer. My question is should I have already received the voting papers by now?

The ballot papers are sent out 9 days before polling day, thus they should been despatched on Tuesday this week (or yesterday [Wed} if you count polling day itself). So if you're in the UK you'll have them early next week at the latest, if you live in Thailand the only way you can exercise your vote is by proxy. If you haven't already arranged that, you're probably stuffed. All votes have to be received by polling day.

[theoldgit]

Thanks for that Eff1n2ret, bit of a waste of time registering, maybe one day it will be online.

[lungbing]

I have just today received an email from the electoral registration officer in my constituency. My letter requesting a postal vote arrived too late by one day to be considered. I posted it to England just over a month ago. So what chance a voting paper arriving here and being returned in time? Zero. Roll on electronic voting, or perhaps getting those idle buggers at the embassy in Bangkok involved so we can vote there.

[evadgib]

How many of the 50k known to live here would make the trek to Bkk & what building could handle the volume?

Didgetally is the way ahead whether they like it or not.

Edited April 30, 2015 by evadgib

[dragonfly94]

As nobody has a policy of up rating pensions why vote for any of them?

Edited April 30, 2015 by dragonfly94

[billd766]

I have just today received an email from the electoral registration officer in my constituency. My letter requesting a postal vote arrived too late by one day to be considered. I posted it to England just over a month ago. So what chance a voting paper arriving here and being returned in time? Zero. Roll on electronic voting, or perhaps getting those idle buggers at the embassy in Bangkok involved so we can vote there.

How dare you expect those poorly funded, overworked and underpaid chaps and chapesses to actually do the job that they are paid to do especially with the outrageous fees they charge. Not to mention that they are funded by the UK taxpayer which many of us here with our gold plated inflation proof pensions contribute to, and have no choice in doing so.

After all it is not as if they have anything better to do.

Sarcasm mode is on full.

[Eff1n2ret]

I have just today received an email from the electoral registration officer in my constituency. My letter requesting a postal vote arrived too late by one day to be considered. I posted it to England just over a month ago. So what chance a voting paper arriving here and being returned in time? Zero. Roll on electronic voting, or perhaps getting those idle buggers at the embassy in Bangkok involved so we can vote there.

I'm sorry, but I'm not surprised. The vagaries of the postal system mean that at present the only practical way we in Thailand can vote is by proxy - but I agree with you that electronic voting is the way to go. They should make it possible for anyone registered on the 'Government Gateway' online system to cast their vote, and this should be reasonably secure against fraud. As far as voting at the Embassy is concerned, I would be willing to travel to Bangkok to do this, but I wonder how that would work with expats potentially from 650 different constituencies. Unless the UK adopts a straightforward PR by party system, or creates overseas constituencies I can't see how it would.

Another thing you need to know is that you have to re-register with your local council/constituency every year. They send out a form, and if it doesn't reach you or you don't send it back your registration lapses. I didn't discover this until I asked my son to vote for me in last year's EU elections and he said he'd never had voting papers. The council said I'd never sent back the form (I subseqently had reason to doubt whether they'd actually sent one).

I'm afraid the whole thing is just another indication of the muddleheaded and uncaring approach of Whitehall to the basic rights of its overseas citizens

[i claudius]

Or to any citizens,come to that