UK pensions

[theoldgit]

Post attempting to circumnavigate the profanity filter removed.

[loppylugs1]

Federal Benefit Payments

Claim: Item criticizes various aspects of the Social Security security system.

MOSTLY FALSE

Example: [Collected via e-mail, March 2012]

SOCIAL SECURITY NOW CALLED 'FEDERAL BENEFIT PAYMENT'/ENTITLEMENT

Have you noticed, your Social Security check is now referred to as a "federal benefit payment"?

I'll be part of the one percent, to forward this, our government gets away with way too much in all areas of our lives, while they live lavishly on their grossly overpaid incomes! KEEP passing THIS AROUND UNTIL EVERY ONE HAS READ IT.....

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THIS CALCULATION IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY COLLECTED THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY!!!!

WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?????????????

This was sent to me, I am forwarding it because it does touch a nerve in me.

This is another example of what Rick Perry called "TREASON in high

<snip>

Here in South Bend Texas (unfrozen) (POP 181 before flooding ,now 81) indeed all small to medium sized US airports (all 45,000 of them) are now patrolled by UK DWP inspectors (45,000 of them) The more devious UK OAPs use these to escape closer scrutiny at bigger hub airports. South Bend township ordnance dictates erroneous limeys are shot on the spot before hanging

When overflying Canadian airspace 45.76.87 whatever I become frozen and duly fill in form blah blah blah. I always fly British Airways too,could be classed as British compressed airspace I use (,not air space naturally) so no form blah to fill in.

Now this is where Kieth Vaz opportunity comes in handy I do not inform for the weekend I am in BKK

[lungbing]

Quote "You have to have a certain stay of residency (6months ?) then you are entitled to your state pension at the new rate; but when you leave it is again frozen at that new rate." unquote.

I believe this to be wrong. Even if you are visiting the UK for a one month holiday, if you tell DWP the dates involved you will get the uprated pension for the duration of your visit. However, how long you have to stay when claiming to return before you permanently get the update I don't know.

[khastan]

I can confirm that this correct. In 2014 and 2015 I had to spend quite a long time in the UK and my OAP was uprated. You just ring Newcastle up and the will uprate it on the first day you are in the UK. in my case it made over 20% difference in what I recieved in just 5 years!

Federal Benefit Payments
Claim: Item criticizes various aspects of the Social Security security system.

MOSTLY FALSE

Example: [Collected via e-mail, March 2012]

SOCIAL SECURITY NOW CALLED 'FEDERAL BENEFIT PAYMENT'/ENTITLEMENT

Have you noticed, your Social Security check is now referred to as a "federal benefit payment"?

I'll be part of the one percent, to forward this, our government gets away with way too much in all areas of our lives, while they live lavishly on their grossly overpaid incomes! KEEP passing THIS AROUND UNTIL EVERY ONE HAS READ IT.....

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THIS CALCULATION IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY COLLECTED THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY!!!!
WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?????????????

This was sent to me, I am forwarding it because it does touch a nerve in me.

This is another example of what Rick Perry called "TREASON in high
<snip>

Here in South Bend Texas (unfrozen) (POP 181 before flooding ,now 81) indeed all small to medium sized US airports (all 45,000 of them) are now patrolled by UK DWP inspectors (45,000 of them) The more devious UK OAPs use these to escape closer scrutiny at bigger hub airports. South Bend township ordnance dictates erroneous limeys are shot on the spot before hanging

When overflying Canadian airspace 45.76.87 whatever I become frozen and duly fill in form blah blah blah. I always fly British Airways too,could be classed as British compressed airspace I use (,not air space naturally) so no form blah to fill in.

Now this is where Kieth Vaz opportunity comes in handy I do not inform for the weekend I am in BKK

[loppylugs1]

Jip99, I think that if you returned to the UK for a year telling DWP you intented to stay, and had your pension brought up to the level current at that time as a result, then if you chose to go back to Thailand after that year then you would keep the uprated pension even if you told them you were going back. You would of course lose further increases as at present. It wouldn't be worth doing for a few quid a month increase, but there must be a cutoff point where it does become financially viable even allowing for the cost of living in the UK for that year.

I think the DWP rules are that if you return to the UK, whilst in receipt of a frozen pension, you are immediately uprated to receive the current UK pension. Should you then later (1/2/3 years or whatever) return to a "frozen pension" country, I believe your pension would be reduced to that which you initially received, and not re-frozen at the level currently being received..

Not so. You have to have a certain stay of residency (6months ?) then you are entitled to your state pension at the new rate; but when you leave it is again frozen at that new rate.

I am confused now keithsatathome at whose information is right,you have not returned when asked by a poster as to verify your information. Truly I was about to shower you with praise at what I thought was the definitive answer but now it seems I would like to shower you with something else.

[chiang mai]

I believe poster keithsatathome is correct although the timeframe of 6 months remains unclear. If the holder of a frozen pension were to return to the UK and state they were returning permanently then their pension would be (permanently) uprated, unless they were subsequently convicted of attempting to defraud DWP. And remember, to become permanently UK resident again means also becoming resident for tax purposes and given the new (last year) residency tests, that's not so easy to duck out of.

[loppylugs1]

This ;leads to other questions then,not just keithsatathomes statement. What if the holder of a frozen pension returned not just to the UK but anywhere that was not frozen, knowingly or not that he wanted to remain in the unfrozen country permanently,until the frozen pensioner realised (or not) he wanted to remain permanently in his newly found destination then would remain frozen,until the OAP ultimately decided?,

Again pertaining to defrauding the DWP and subsequently convicted of the alleged crime and conviction,would you please re-fresh me of any instance this has in fact happened, or taken place potentially or not,or indeed is a crime,thanking you. Please if any poster ,not just keithsatathome would like to comment on would be appreciated,and please ,not off your heads ANY you know of,not hot air thank you

As you state what if a (to you) one of the (potential) criminal class was already a tax payer in the UK,where does this leave a degenerate spending his ill gotten old age pension gain on tarts down Nana Plaza

Edited June 10, 2015 by theoldgit
Uneccesary follow on quote removed

[chiang mai]

Re. your first para:

UK Residency Tests use time spent in the UK as one of its criteria. It therefore doesn't matter whether the "frozen" pensioner knew or not that he/she wanted to remain permanently, as soon as the time spent in the UK criteria is met, they are once again UK resident. Regaining UK residency uses the default method of time spent in the UK alone is a sloppy and almost pointless way to regain residency, especially when the pensioner could say on the day of their arrival, Hi, I'm back for good.

Re. your second para:

A hypothetical scenario was put forward and I supplied a hypothetical answer in response, both of which are based on fact. But it's not my role to examine the extent they have been tested in law.

Re. your third para:

What you've written doesn't make sense to me hence, no reply.

Edited June 10, 2015 by theoldgit
Uneccesary follow on quote removed

[thonglorjimmy]

I for one was glad the thread was tidied up a while back, I initially found this thread to be quite informative and I found the posts from the vast majority to be quite intelligent.

It's a shame that it now seems to have been hijacked by a poster who wants not only to stick two fingers up at HMG but also at fellow members who stick to the rules, however unfair those rules may be.

I think another cull of those pointless posts is long overdue, though it shouldn't really be necessary and I don't envy the mod who takes it on. Also why do some members blindly hit the quote button, I really don't want to read the same drivel over and over again?

I've just returned from a short holiday in the UK and claimed my pension uplift, about £45 in all, the thought of saying I was returning for good did cross my mind, but my integrity is worth more than a £1 a week, after tax, though I wouldn't criticise those that set themselves lower standards.

[evadgib]

Some of your posts might appear to be comic genious but you're on par with the Riddler when it comes to being understood or endearing yourself to posters on this board.

Only two here will fully understand and that is who I am answering. Pity the board was wiped clean a while ago,there was only one comic here at that particular time and made sure it was not to be referenced "met at the airport" LOLOL

Good luck to you in the endeavors but no UK govt will change tack now

but Bendix earns far too much to receive a state pension and stated he would not claim anything be it frozen or unfrozen

Change is inevitable and will likely take the form of a 'one size fits all' pension applied worldwide. The only thing that isn't clear is when. Until then we need to ensure the plight of the 600k currently being short-changed by HMG remains firmly in the public domain. Edited June 10, 2015 by evadgib

[Liquorice]

George Osbourne was walking through his Tatton constituency one day when he saw an 83 year old lady struggling to carry two bags of shopping along.

"Wow dear, why are you struggling like that" he asked.

"Well on my pension, I can't afford a taxi to take me home" she replied.

"My dear, I'm the Chancellor of the Exchequer and if I can't help dear old pensioners like you, nobody can" he said in earnest.

"Oh your so kind, how can you help" she enquired.

"Well" said George "I'll arrange for you to live in Thailand for a start"

"Ooooh! That would be nice" she said "and how will that help me"

" Well my dear, first we'll freeze your pension, then in a few years your pension will decrease in real value" he said

"Uuh! I don't understand" she replied "How will that help"

"It's easy my love, in a few years you'll only be able to afford one bag of shopping to struggle home with"

[CharlieH]

No one is about to trawl through 200+ pages, the last few pages have had heavy removals of petty bickering etc.

Debate the issue(s) by all means, but DONT make personal comment or attacks.

Refer to rule 7. any further issues will be deleted without explanation, so if your post disappears, you now know why.

[theoldgit]

And as for the poster who thought that this debate had been hijacked by members from both sides of the debate! I mean really, what more can be said.

Cannot find that one CM, which post are you referring to?

[chiang mai]

And as for the poster who thought that this debate had been hijacked by members from both sides of the debate! I mean really, what more can be said.

Cannot find that one CM, which post are you referring to?

Post # 797 reads:

"It's a shame that it now seems to have been hijacked by a poster who wants not only to stick two fingers up at HMG but also at fellow members who stick to the rules, however unfair those rules may be".

[theoldgit]

I think you've misinterpreted him CM, the person TLJ is talking about is unhappy with the freezing of pensions so this guyis sticking two fingers up to HMG.

It seems this guy is claiming he's living in the UK, so the two fingers to HMG stay up.

But this guy also seems to be criticising those who stick to the rules, so is sticking two fingers up at those people as well.

I think you'll find that TLJ is spot on.

[thonglorjimmy]

And as for the poster who thought that this debate had been hijacked by members from both sides of the debate! I mean really, what more can be said.

Cannot find that one CM, which post are you referring to?

Post # 797 reads:

"It's a shame that it now seems to have been hijacked by a poster who wants not only to stick two fingers up at HMG but also at fellow members who stick to the rules, however unfair those rules may be".

I'm not saying that the debate has been hijacked by both sides of the debate at all.

What I said was "hijacked by a poster who wants not only to stick two fingers up at HMG but also at fellow members who stick to the rules", which is exactly what I mean, the guy is unhappy with HMG, so two fingers to them, he doesn't care about those of us who stick to the rules, in fact we've been criticised for doing so, so two fingers to us as well.

I really think that your remark "I mean really, what more can be said" is a tad unfair.

But we're all on the same side, so let's leave it there.

[Jip99]

I for one was glad the thread was tidied up a while back, I initially found this thread to be quite informative and I found the posts from the vast majority to be quite intelligent.

It's a shame that it now seems to have been hijacked by a poster who wants not only to stick two fingers up at HMG but also at fellow members who stick to the rules, however unfair those rules may be.

I think another cull of those pointless posts is long overdue, though it shouldn't really be necessary and I don't envy the mod who takes it on. Also why do some members blindly hit the quote button, I really don't want to read the same drivel over and over again?

I've just returned from a short holiday in the UK and claimed my pension uplift, about £45 in all, the thought of saying I was returning for good did cross my mind, but my integrity is worth more than a £1 a week, after tax, though I wouldn't criticise those that set themselves lower standards.

I have been a law-abiding citizen most of my life (give or take the odd motoring offence and pinching chocolate bars from Woolworths when I was about 10 years old).

However, I will seriously considering lowering my standards (and those of TLJ) when it comes to my time to claim the state pension. I may (although I don't need to) visit the UK to celebrate my 66th birthday and claim the OAP while I am there - and using my UK correspondence address,

Whether I announce my return to Thailand will very much depend on my mood - and, of course, my prevailing standards at that time.

[evadgib]

By the time we get there I hope it won't be necessary:)

[nontabury]

I for one was glad the thread was tidied up a while back, I initially found this thread to be quite informative and I found the posts from the vast majority to be quite intelligent.

It's a shame that it now seems to have been hijacked by a poster who wants not only to stick two fingers up at HMG but also at fellow members who stick to the rules, however unfair those rules may be.

I think another cull of those pointless posts is long overdue, though it shouldn't really be necessary and I don't envy the mod who takes it on. Also why do some members blindly hit the quote button, I really don't want to read the same drivel over and over again?

I've just returned from a short holiday in the UK and claimed my pension uplift, about £45 in all, the thought of saying I was returning for good did cross my mind, but my integrity is worth more than a £1 a week, after tax, though I wouldn't criticise those that set themselves lower standards.

The poster that you are referring to, is entitled to put his point of view forward,personally I think he talks a lot of common sense,especially when he refers to some posters as being very naive.

Well done for claiming your uplifted pension while on holiday in the UK, you are entitled to it,the same as you should be entitled to the increase every year while you are living here. I shall be spending August in the UK,how easy was it for you to have your pension uplifted during your stay, what questions were put to you?

[nontabury]

I for one was glad the thread was tidied up a while back, I initially found this thread to be quite informative and I found the posts from the vast majority to be quite intelligent.

It's a shame that it now seems to have been hijacked by a poster who wants not only to stick two fingers up at HMG but also at fellow members who stick to the rules, however unfair those rules may be.

I think another cull of those pointless posts is long overdue, though it shouldn't really be necessary and I don't envy the mod who takes it on. Also why do some members blindly hit the quote button, I really don't want to read the same drivel over and over again?

I've just returned from a short holiday in the UK and claimed my pension uplift, about £45 in all, the thought of saying I was returning for good did cross my mind, but my integrity is worth more than a £1 a week, after tax, though I wouldn't criticise those that set themselves lower standards.

I have been a law-abiding citizen most of my life (give or take the odd motoring offence and pinching chocolate bars from Woolworths when I was about 10 years old).

However, I will seriously considering lowering my standards (and those of TLJ) when it comes to my time to claim the state pension. I may (although I don't need to) visit the UK to celebrate my 66th birthday and claim the OAP while I am there - and using my UK correspondence address,

Whether I announce my return to Thailand will very much depend on my mood - and, of course, my prevailing standards at that time.

It's not a matter of you lowering your standards, you payed into the system for many years, yet the government, who are CHEATING you out of you're entitlement,don't blink an eyelid when it comes to paying M.P's and senior civil servants very large increases in their pensions.

Jip99, don't be stupid like me,claim your entitlement,and then simple forget to inform them when you return to LOS.

[jacky54]

Am I allowed to ask if anyone knows of a case where a pensioner in LOS telling them they are in the UK to claim uprates has ever been caught and made to pay the increases back? Apart from the ones informed on that is.

[evadgib]

Anecdotally i've heard of the odd 1 or 2, but can't give a resounding 'yes'.

HTH

[thonglorjimmy]

I shall be spending August in the UK, how easy was it for you to have your pension uplifted during your stay, what questions were put to you?

I sent them a form which asks for the dates you arrive and leave, as well as the address you're staying at.

I'd had the form for a while as when I notified them about an earlier stay the form arrived after the date for claiming, which is one month after you leave the country.

They included this in an earlier reply:

You can apply for an increased rate of benefit whenever you are in the United Kingdom (UK). We will need to know:

• your full name and home telephone number

• the date you are arriving and the date you are leaving

• your nationality

• an address and telephone number where you will be staying during your visit.

We cannot take this information any earlier than 4 weeks before you arrive in the UK. You must tell us about your visit within 28 days of your arrival in the UK if you do not do so before your arrival.

For the security and protection of your details we are unable to deal with your notification via e-mail.

You can call us on 00144 191 218 7777 between the hours of 8am and 6pm (UK time).

We're going again in July/August and because we're staying in about 15 hotels and friends and family in the UK and mainland Europe, I've asked them if they require all addresses.

I would just add again that I specifically said that I didn't criticise those who decided to claim the full rate despite the fact they live in Thailand, though I wouldn't do it myself, it's the criticism of me for sticking to the rules I found distasteful.

Edited June 11, 2015 by thonglorjimmy

[Jip99]

We're going again in July/August and because we're staying in about 15 hotels and friends and family in the UK and mainland Europe, I've asked them if they require all addresses.

I would just add again that I specifically said that I didn't criticise those who decided to claim the full rate despite the fact they live in Thailand, though I wouldn't do it myself, it's the criticism of me for sticking to the rules I found distasteful.

I certainly would never criticise anyone who played strictly by the rules - anyone (myself included) who chooses to do otherwise must be aware of the phrase 'caveat emptor'. Such actions are entirely at the individuals own risk.

I am still highly tempted to take that risk - even if I justify that action under the heading of 'justice'.

[JohnC]

Just got back from a three week stay in UK, phoned international pensions the day after I arrived, they asked date of arrival and date of departure, home address and phone number, that was it, no forms needed and told me the money would be deposited into my bank after I left.

[Liquorice]

Am I allowed to ask if anyone knows of a case where a pensioner in LOS telling them they are in the UK to claim uprates has ever been caught and made to pay the increases back? Apart from the ones informed on that is.

I can tell you of the case of one of my expat mates (not a TV member).

He is a British citizen but lived in Sweden for a few years prior to moving to Thailand 5 years ago after divorcing in Sweden.

At age 63 he went to visit family in the UK and tried to claim benefits because he had no income, other than a small private pension from Sweden.

He was informed because he was 63 the chances of getting employment was virtually 0%, so he was pensioned off (benefit, but the same rate as a Pension).

He then returned to live in Thailand.

Some 21 months later after an argument with another so called expat mate, he was rumbled to HMG and he had to return to the UK to answer some questions.

He pleaded ignorance that he wasn't aware he shouldn't be claiming benefits whilst living in Thailand, so he didn't have to pay a penny back, but they stopped the payments.

3 months later he was 65 and started receiving his UK pension.

This year, now 66 and still in Thailand they just uplifted his pension in April.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Faz

[evadgib]

Links of interest seen today:

List of Recognised Overseas Pension Schemes notifications

Recovery of benefits, lump sum payments and NHS charges: technical guidance

Mods: Feel free to move the latter if there's a better place elsewhere.

Edited June 11, 2015 by evadgib

[Eff1n2ret]

Links of interest seen today:

List of Recognised Overseas Pension Schemes notifications

Recovery of benefits, lump sum payments and NHS charges: technical guidance

Mods: Feel free to move the latter if there's a better place elsewhere.

As best I understand the second link, it concerns the procedures for recovering costs to the benefits system or to the NHS arising from injuries or illness caused by accidents or negligence, the costs to be recovered from insurance companies and the like. I didn't spot anything concerning the recovery of payments of fraudulent claims, which is what some posters seem to have been arguing about. However, there may be someone better qualified who could put me right if I have misunderstood it.

One interesting bit, though, is Para 10.5 which sets out the charges for treatment at an NHS hospital. The current charge per night as of this April is £796. This is of concern to those of us who visit the UK from now on, as since April even pensioners will be liable for the cost of in-patient treatment at cost+ 50%. If that scale of charges is used as the basis and you are foolish enough to fall ill during your visit you could be stuck with a bill for nearly £1200 per night. Even the base figure compares very poorly with, say the Bangkok-Rayong Hospital where the facilities are much better and the cost of non-surgical intensive care (in my experience) runs at about £300 (15k Baht) per night.

I have some insurance for my up-coming trip to Blighty, but the list of exclusions is so long it's hardly worth the paper it's written on.

[nontabury]

Links of interest seen today:

List of Recognised Overseas Pension Schemes notifications

Recovery of benefits, lump sum payments and NHS charges: technical guidance

Mods: Feel free to move the latter if there's a better place elsewhere.

As best I understand the second link, it concerns the procedures for recovering costs to the benefits system or to the NHS arising from injuries or illness caused by accidents or negligence, the costs to be recovered from insurance companies and the like. I didn't spot anything concerning the recovery of payments of fraudulent claims, which is what some posters seem to have been arguing about. However, there may be someone better qualified who could put me right if I have misunderstood it.

One interesting bit, though, is Para 10.5 which sets out the charges for treatment at an NHS hospital. The current charge per night as of this April is £796. This is of concern to those of us who visit the UK from now on, as since April even pensioners will be liable for the cost of in-patient treatment at cost+ 50%. If that scale of charges is used as the basis and you are foolish enough to fall ill during your visit you could be stuck with a bill for nearly £1200 per night. Even the base figure compares very poorly with, say the Bangkok-Rayong Hospital where the facilities are much better and the cost of non-surgical intensive care (in my experience) runs at about £300 (15k Baht) per night.

I have some insurance for my up-coming trip to Blighty, but the list of exclusions is so long it's hardly worth the paper it's written on.

Can you lease provide a link to pensioners being liable to cost +50%.

[i claudius]

Am I allowed to ask if anyone knows of a case where a pensioner in LOS telling them they are in the UK to claim uprates has ever been caught and made to pay the increases back? Apart from the ones informed on that is.

Yes a friend of mine some years ago was dropped in it by an ex wife who's address he had been using,she told them he was not there any longer ,he told the pension service that he had been in Thailand a couple of months and did not realize that he had to inform them ,he had to pay back the I2 weeks or so of overpayment about 20 or 30 quid or so and his pension was frozen from that date Edited June 11, 2015 by i claudius