UK pensions

[loppylugs1]

FWIW the US had similar problems with their lack of interconnected systems and information sharing between States AND more importantly, between levels of law enforcement, until 9/11 that is. The reasons for that however are somewhat different from the UK example in that nobody perceived a need!

Those underpants of yours will sort this mess out then

[chiang mai]

"DWP has also increased its efforts to eradicate benefit fraud among claimants living outside the UK, for example British pensioners living abroad. New, stringent checks place greater responsibility on people who have moved abroad to verify their identity and prove they are eligible for their claim".

so what are these 'stringent checks' ? we need to know the facts, not scaremongering. If you have a UK address and a ni number why would you have to verify identity?

I sense a whiff of nervousness in the air!

Must be those underpants of yours

As the DWP rules state the OAP cannot be stopped reduced or re-paid only another benefit attached to it will be reduced.

Another round of pure crap about to be launched Gossip and the war guess what happened? 1234 any guesses?

completely happy and secure along with 90% of the others in Thailand

It was targeted at "life certificates" ie are you still alive

Yawn, yet another distorted leftie interpretation of what they think citizens are owed as a result of birth right alone!

And whilst it may not be easily possible to immediately identify verbiage within all of the various sets of all of, "the rules", that can convince them of their errant ways, the truth will out one day, likely after their demise and the various government departments have their final account via probate. An alternative to that might just be when some tee'd off "friend" decides a certain type of behavior is unacceptable and shops them (increasingly common), good luck with those things.

[loppylugs1]

so what are these 'stringent checks' ? we need to know the facts, not scaremongering. If you have a UK address and a ni number why would you have to verify identity?

I sense a whiff of nervousness in the air!

Must be those underpants of yours

As the DWP rules state the OAP cannot be stopped reduced or re-paid only another benefit attached to it will be reduced.

Another round of pure crap about to be launched Gossip and the war guess what happened? 1234 any guesses?

completely happy and secure along with 90% of the others in Thailand

It was targeted at "life certificates" ie are you still alive

Yawn, yet another distorted leftie interpretation of what they think citizens are owed as a result of birth right alone!

And whilst it may not be easily possible to immediately identify verbiage within all of the various sets of all of, "the rules", that can convince them of their errant ways, the truth will out one day, likely after their demise and the various government departments have their final account via probate. An alternative to that might just be when some tee'd off "friend" decides a certain type of behavior is unacceptable and shops them (increasingly common), good luck with those things.

...but the DWP know I am here and here for quite a few years. There are alternatives to life here in Thailand,people do not have to whinge about frozen pensions ,the frozen pension is here forever,nothing will change that.

No penalty no charge back,no guilty/not guilty ,so people have a choice..and if you read the quoted document it states giving dignity to the OAP,yes Ill accept that

[chiang mai]

I sense a whiff of nervousness in the air!

Must be those underpants of yours

As the DWP rules state the OAP cannot be stopped reduced or re-paid only another benefit attached to it will be reduced.

Another round of pure crap about to be launched Gossip and the war guess what happened? 1234 any guesses?

completely happy and secure along with 90% of the others in Thailand

It was targeted at "life certificates" ie are you still alive

Yawn, yet another distorted leftie interpretation of what they think citizens are owed as a result of birth right alone!

And whilst it may not be easily possible to immediately identify verbiage within all of the various sets of all of, "the rules", that can convince them of their errant ways, the truth will out one day, likely after their demise and the various government departments have their final account via probate. An alternative to that might just be when some tee'd off "friend" decides a certain type of behavior is unacceptable and shops them (increasingly common), good luck with those things.

...but the DWP know I am here and here for quite a few years. There are alternatives to life here in Thailand,people do not have to whinge about frozen pensions ,the frozen pension is here forever,nothing will change that.

No penalty no charge back,no guilty/not guilty ,so people have a choice..and if you read the quoted document it states giving dignity to the OAP,yes Ill accept that

I do not believe you!

Simply, if the DWP truly does know of your full time existence here in Thailand and continues to pay you annual increases, there is one set of rules for you and another for the remaining UK expat retirees.

Perhaps if you want to convince us of your case you will allow us to use your name and details, in a class action maybe, in order to force a change of heart on the part of DWP, on behalf of all expat retirees?

Personally, I think you are simply a bored and probably delusional attention seeker.

[loppylugs1]

Must be those underpants of yours

As the DWP rules state the OAP cannot be stopped reduced or re-paid only another benefit attached to it will be reduced.

Another round of pure crap about to be launched Gossip and the war guess what happened? 1234 any guesses?

completely happy and secure along with 90% of the others in Thailand

It was targeted at "life certificates" ie are you still alive

Yawn, yet another distorted leftie interpretation of what they think citizens are owed as a result of birth right alone!

And whilst it may not be easily possible to immediately identify verbiage within all of the various sets of all of, "the rules", that can convince them of their errant ways, the truth will out one day, likely after their demise and the various government departments have their final account via probate. An alternative to that might just be when some tee'd off "friend" decides a certain type of behavior is unacceptable and shops them (increasingly common), good luck with those things.

...but the DWP know I am here and here for quite a few years. There are alternatives to life here in Thailand,people do not have to whinge about frozen pensions ,the frozen pension is here forever,nothing will change that.

No penalty no charge back,no guilty/not guilty ,so people have a choice..and if you read the quoted document it states giving dignity to the OAP,yes Ill accept that

I do not believe you!

Simply, if the DWP truly does know of your full time existence here in Thailand and continues to pay you annual increases, there is one set of rules for you and another for the remaining UK expat retirees.

Perhaps if you want to convince us of your case you will allow us to use your name and details, in a class action maybe, in order to force a change of heart on the part of DWP, on behalf of all expat retirees?

Personally, I think you are simply a bored and probably delusional attention seeker.

But I have my full oap ,and more importantly you do not. Lived in another frozen country before Thailand, DWP knew then and now when I shifted address. You will just have to keep the 1234 guessing game up ,keep trying at a situation you are happy in,obviously you are not happy at all at the moment,but hopefully that will pass in time,LOL

No whiff of anything from me,how about you?

[evadgib]

This frozen malarky isnt here forever loppylugs. This state sponsored con trick will eventually be addressed, not least because advances in technology will help enable us to reach an increasingly wider audience who won't put up with it for much longer, especially if they think of the strain on the NHS/social housing etc if we all head home.

Call it common sense.

Edited July 19, 2015 by evadgib

[jacky54]

"DWP has also increased its efforts to eradicate benefit fraud among claimants living outside the UK, for example British pensioners living abroad. New, stringent checks place greater responsibility on people who have moved abroad to verify their identity and prove they are eligible for their claim".

so what are these 'stringent checks' ? we need to know the facts, not scaremongering. If you have a UK address and a ni number why would you have to verify identity?

I sense a whiff of nervousness in the air!

I am not yet a pensioner, but if I were I would let on I was not in the UK to those crooks who make the laws and who just awarded themselves a 10% pay rise while freezing other public servants, these people have no shame at all. I would save up the rises, then if I ever did have to pay them back they could have it. If not the mrs will be spending it on som tam for a few years. Screw them that screw us is my moto.

[loppylugs1]

This frozen malarky isnt here forever loppylugs. This state sponsored con trick will eventually be addressed, not least because advances in technology will help enable us to reach an increasingly wider audience who won't put up with it for much longer, especially if they think of the strain on the NHS/social housing etc if we all head home.

Call it common sense.

An idea,mass disobedience from the likes of Aussie,all declare a UK address ,a paid one,see how that goes down.

Bit more coming out from pension meetings GAD and employers state pension(the old one) actually goes down to something like £113,then made up by credits in 2023,quite a bit more from past employment but that's it

# 945 you do not pay them back, rules quite clearly state no reduction,no stoppage,nothing can stop its full path to the recipient . Cheers!!!

Edited July 19, 2015 by loppylugs1

[nontabury]

This frozen malarky isnt here forever loppylugs. This state sponsored con trick will eventually be addressed, not least because advances in technology will help enable us to reach an increasingly wider audience who won't put up with it for much longer, especially if they think of the strain on the NHS/social housing etc if we all head home.

Call it common sense.

I would like to think your prediction will come true,however I have my doubts. Unfortunately the wider audience are not interested in our cause,for the simple reason it does't effect them,except for those who have made a career out of living on benefits, they would reason that the money paid to those with frozen pension, would be better directed at them. You only have to read some of the post from the general public to those articles that do champion our cause to relies that this is so.

The powers that be in the UK would certainly relent if they thought we would all be prepared to go home and crash the NHS etc, however they know that will not happen,so why should they worry about it.

One possible action that would help us,would be if ex-pats were allowed to vote for MP's that would solely represent us, the same as is allowed in the French and Italian parliaments, again unfortunately this is not going to happen as most of those voters would be British.

[jacky54]

so if the rat bags catch you out for several years over payment, all they can do is freeze it and not claim it back. Is that correct?

[chiang mai]

Yawn, yet another distorted leftie interpretation of what they think citizens are owed as a result of birth right alone!

And whilst it may not be easily possible to immediately identify verbiage within all of the various sets of all of, "the rules", that can convince them of their errant ways, the truth will out one day, likely after their demise and the various government departments have their final account via probate. An alternative to that might just be when some tee'd off "friend" decides a certain type of behavior is unacceptable and shops them (increasingly common), good luck with those things.

...but the DWP know I am here and here for quite a few years. There are alternatives to life here in Thailand,people do not have to whinge about frozen pensions ,the frozen pension is here forever,nothing will change that.

No penalty no charge back,no guilty/not guilty ,so people have a choice..and if you read the quoted document it states giving dignity to the OAP,yes Ill accept that

I do not believe you!

Simply, if the DWP truly does know of your full time existence here in Thailand and continues to pay you annual increases, there is one set of rules for you and another for the remaining UK expat retirees.

Perhaps if you want to convince us of your case you will allow us to use your name and details, in a class action maybe, in order to force a change of heart on the part of DWP, on behalf of all expat retirees?

Personally, I think you are simply a bored and probably delusional attention seeker.

But I have my full oap ,and more importantly you do not. Lived in another frozen country before Thailand, DWP knew then and now when I shifted address. You will just have to keep the 1234 guessing game up ,keep trying at a situation you are happy in,obviously you are not happy at all at the moment,but hopefully that will pass in time,LOL

No whiff of anything from me,how about you?

I'm in the fortunate position whereby my State Pension is superfluous to my financial requirements during retirement, that having been said I do receive the full state pension during this my first year. And because I also have a home in the UK where I spend several months each year, I could claim that I am UK resident and be assured of future cost of living increases, I chose however not to do so because it is against the rules and in my view, immoral. More importantly, I am taxed far less on my global earnings because I am not UK resident for tax purposes than any pension cost of living increases could ever make up for. So no, no whiff of anything here either!

[loppylugs1]

so if the rat bags catch you out for several years over payment, all they can do is freeze it and not claim it back. Is that correct?

yes correct,but if another benefit is attached to the pension that will be reduced

But I have my full oap ,and more importantly you do not. Lived in another frozen country before Thailand, DWP knew then and now when I shifted address. You will just have to keep the 1234 guessing game up ,keep trying at a situation you are happy in,obviously you are not happy at all at the moment,but hopefully that will pass in time,LOL

No whiff of anything from me,how about you?

I'm in the fortunate position whereby my State Pension is superfluous to my financial requirements during retirement, that having been said I do receive the full state pension during this my first year. And because I also have a home in the UK where I spend several months each year, I could claim that I am UK resident and be assured of future cost of living increases, I chose however not to do so because it is against the rules and in my view, immoral. More importantly, I am taxed far less on my global earnings because I am not UK resident for tax purposes than any pension cost of living increases could ever make up for. So no, no whiff of anything here either!

Off shore then,yes explains a lot,nothing more immoral than seeking ways to avoid the UK tax bill

getting a bit cheesed off now with this thread,any bit of gossip ,anything then the rumour mill starts "jail" "police" courts" all crap pure and simply crap.

The frozen pension will never be lifted,the NHS issue should have been a clue as to the thinking of UK govt. more like anyone leaving the UK will have the UK pension stopped altogether, a more likely situation

[evadgib]

This frozen malarky isnt here forever loppylugs. This state sponsored con trick will eventually be addressed, not least because advances in technology will help enable us to reach an increasingly wider audience who won't put up with it for much longer, especially if they think of the strain on the NHS/social housing etc if we all head home.

Call it common sense.

I would like to think your prediction will come true,however I have my doubts. Unfortunately the wider audience are not interested in our cause,for the simple reason it does't effect them,except for those who have made a career out of living on benefits, they would reason that the money paid to those with frozen pension, would be better directed at them. You only have to read some of the post from the general public to those articles that do champion our cause to relies that this is so.

The powers that be in the UK would certainly relent if they thought we would all be prepared to go home and crash the NHS etc, however they know that will not happen,so why should they worry about it.

One possible action that would help us,would be if ex-pats were allowed to vote for MP's that would solely represent us, the same as is allowed in the French and Italian parliaments, again unfortunately this is not going to happen as most of those voters would be British.

That's what I meant by social media. At the moment SUN readers are fed stock photos of retired couples on palm-fringed beaches lording it up at their(?) expense in what they are deceived into believing are 'something-for-nothing' circumstances. In reality this is utter tosh, as we (not me yet but you get my drift) cannot fit a fag paper between our NI Cont record(s) & the remainder of the workforce who chose to stay put. As time goes by it is inevitable that more and more people will opt to live elsewhere and it is they and their families who will get louder and louder via social media until the dam breaks. We (the older generation-YOU LOT!) in the meantime can help bring this about by ensuring that family members living in UK,EU or the Non-Frozen zone are fully enlightened and regularly updated via facebook etc and that they are correcting this nonsence (local press etc) as and when it appears online & to do so in a short, sharp, factually correct manner without resorting to a rant.

Edited July 20, 2015 by evadgib

[evadgib]

Loppylugs1 in 950 said:

The frozen pension will never be lifted,the NHS issue should have been a clue as to the thinking of UK govt. more like anyone leaving the UK will have the UK pension stopped altogether, a more likely situation

Fortunately not all of us share the view that....:

[Eff1n2ret]

Many years ago I was in a meeting with the Home Secretary, it was Jack Straw so that shows how long ago it was.

He was saying that when he took up post he was astounded to find that computer systems didn't "talk to each other" in the various Home Office departments, he said he was going to address this issue and would then work with Ministerial colleagues to ensure that all government departments would talk to each other.

He did say that the sharing of information, even within the Home Office, faced legal hurdles, but he was determined to overcome them.

When I retired there was little progress in the Home Office systems sharing information. it's hardly a secret that, like most government departments, the Home Office has had more than its fair share of IT fiascos, and as far as I know there was even less progress in the sharing of information between government departments.

That does pretty well sum up the state of play with government IT systems. As far as I can remember, when I retired from the same department about 6 years ago I had 8 different passwords to access the various databases.

I suspect, however that the DWP and HMRC are cooperating pretty closely these days, which perhaps explains why in more than 5 years I've never been sent a Life Certificate by the DWP - as I'm submitting a tax return every year, why would they bother?

Whether or when the DWP will crack down on "bogus UK resident" expat pensioners will probably depend on the two factors which motivate most Civil Service action - pressure on budgets or political pressure arising from developments in the news. I expect you remember as well as I do the unholy panic that developed over the failure to deport foreign prisoners which led to Charles Clark getting sacked. Arrest teams were sent out all over the place to detain anyone whose place of birth entered on prison records was outside the UK, so many bona fide Brits found themselves back behind bars for a while - and so on. In the current case the DWP might be motivated to investigate pension payments if (a) they perceive a significant saving on their budget and ( b ) they have the time and resources. I did work on a couple of jobs with DWP fraud investigators and they're not mugs, but they had their priorities like anyone else. If, as suggested in that preposterous post which you deleted, 90% of pensioners living in Thailand are falsely claiming to be UK residents, one might expect an investigation sooner rather than later, but I would doubt whether that is the case. If/when they do start looking, I would expect them to successfully identify a good proportion of "offenders".

[jacky54]

If you keep a UK address, re new passport in UK, never get any service from the Bkk embassy and do not transfer money to Thailand directly, the only way I can see them detecting 'offenders' is if they log folks in and out of the country on their passports and see where they are going. If they go to a EU destination first then how do they track them down to Thailand? They could of course ask Thai immigration for a list of suspected cases, not sure that would work given their incompetence.

Edited July 20, 2015 by jacky54

[nong38]

I would suspect that what it all boils down to is how much is in the budget and what the priorities are. The general public would be up for catching illegal immigrants and foreign spongers who arrive in the UK to milk the system but would rebel against any HMG Department who started making life difficult for ex pat UK pensioners who have or have not had their pensions frozen. That is the difference between looking after your own people and those who come to have a free lunch at our expense.

It may be politically impossible for the HMG to authorize a crack down of this nature, the damage done when it becomes general knowledge about the frozen pension situation may be viewed to great a risk.

[loppylugs1]

It would never be cost effective to chase erring pensioners,never in a million years & there is most definitely a tie up with DWP and revenue ,people do trip themselves up with the private pension providers address when tax assessment comes up, inescapable fact a letter will be forwarded with words of "how long" and frozen at that point. Three years winter fuel pay back was one instance I was aware of, others just frozen at that point.

I just wonder at individuals attempts to justify their actions at attempting to shock/frighten individuals who choose to break free of restrictions,utter rubbish,like a bloody parrot sat on the shoulder ,same load of utter <deleted> " I know of no restriction" crap just knowing something ,anything that would inspire, anything credible,but nothing but rubbish ,absolute crap

I too wore a uniform,,public sectored pension etc. that leaves the OAP trailing in its wake,but am not averse to claiming something that I consider rightfully mine and to hell with the politicians who state otherwise,

Finally I guess you were never at the (then) new ambassadors meeting when he tried to whip up a meet the (UK) people ,a come and register at the embassy invite. I attended one meeting ,knew 3 or 4 others all same result,barely 10% took up his invite ,and as he stated ,yes the frozen pension was the reason

In skimming through the DWP Annual Report and Accounts 2014-15 I did spot this on page 96:-

22. During 2014-15, the Department has undertaken work in a number of areas to reduce fraud and error. These include: • ........... • Addressing abroad fraud by greater use of data-sharing to verify the continued entitlement of UK state pensioners living overseas;

This probably refers more to the increased activity in issuing Life Certificates noted on other threads in this forum. It could also include expats falsely claiming to be resident in the UK, but the extent to which it is on their radar as a significant problem is anybody's guess. However, if they decide that they could save a few million quid the 'data-sharing' activities could persuade them to take an interest, if there are as many "unfrozen pensioners in Thailand as you suggest. I'm one of the "few" (in your view) who are "frozen", but the issue is so outrageous that I don't blame anyone for trying to get away with it. I just prefer to sleep at night.

Finally ,just a highlight but I would reverse that last statement I just couldn't sleep at night with the pension slowly but surely being eroded four of five years down the line would see me gone or adjust my thinking, it would give me nightmares at the thought of losing the money

[jacky54]

Of course you need to get all your ducks in a row with the same addresses etc, and never have anything to do with the embassy, certainly not registering or getting income verification letters from them for extensions. If you do that the only way I can see them locating you is if they ask Thai immigration, and even then if you have an extension there is nothing that says you cannot be in the EU for the required time to get your pension increase.

[evadgib]

The suspicion of any such connection could be eliminated by submitting a suitably worded FoI request.

Edited July 21, 2015 by evadgib

[jacky54]

what's an Fol request?

[evadgib]

A request to any Govt dept under the Freedom of information (FoI) act 2000.

https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request

Edited July 21, 2015 by evadgib

[loppylugs1]

Of course you need to get all your ducks in a row with the same addresses etc, and never have anything to do with the embassy, certainly not registering or getting income verification letters from them for extensions. If you do that the only way I can see them locating you is if they ask Thai immigration, and even then if you have an extension there is nothing that says you cannot be in the EU for the required time to get your pension increase.

Registering at the Thai immigration means nothing,just easy access to the country when you arrive,likewise income letters,it would take some doing to track movements,but then is it worth it? no.

Always cheaper flying into hub airport on continent,saved a packet BKK Oslo Barc then Ryanair to favourite airport.

Just get on with it obviously jealousy on this thread would get a notice or two,but my tax bill would make anyone wince at the size of it,

[loppylugs1]

The suspicion of any such connection could be eliminated by submitting a suitably worded FoI request.

Good idea would set many minds at rest

[jacky54]

Don't get the idea of a freedom of information request, surely that's just bringing attention on yourself? What would you request anyway?

[chiang mai]

The whiff gets more strong!

[jacky54]

It's the drains here, plumbing is terrible

[loppylugs1]

Don't get the idea of a freedom of information request, surely that's just bringing attention on yourself? What would you request anyway?

You need to couch the question in the actual,not the potential ie "how many" not "what if"

The whiff gets more strong!

Try using a biological powder on those underpants of yours

[evadgib]

Don't get the idea of a freedom of information request, surely that's just bringing attention on yourself? What would you request anyway?

FoI requests are general enquiries therefore no such problems occur. Budget-wise their priority is in answering questions from the public as per govt charter on transparency. They have neither the time nor manpower to do anything else.

HTH

Edited July 21, 2015 by evadgib

[JB300]

Of course you need to get all your ducks in a row with the same addresses etc, and never have anything to do with the embassy, certainly not registering or getting income verification letters from them for extensions. If you do that the only way I can see them locating you is if they ask Thai immigration, and even then if you have an extension there is nothing that says you cannot be in the EU for the required time to get your pension increase.

Registering at the Thai immigration means nothing,just easy access to the country when you arrive,likewise income letters,it would take some doing to track movements,but then is it worth it? no.

Always cheaper flying into hub airport on continent,saved a packet BKK Oslo Barc then Ryanair to favourite airport.

Just get on with it obviously jealousy on this thread would get a notice or two,but my tax bill would make anyone wince at the size of it,

For somebody with such a "Big Tax" bill, you sure have an avid interest in a subject (Frozen State Pension) that would be (to people with a "reasonable" tax bill) a "rounding error" in their monthly finances.

For me, any (UK) Tax Bill that would make me "wince" would include elements where it would be of benefit to be a non-UK resident for Tax purposes (which you clearly could be/are?), so either you're fiddling yourself out of money or I doubt I'd be impressed at the "size of yours" (Tax Bill that is).

Happy to be proven wrong (whilst continuing to pay 0% CGT/Tax on income from my UK Property & only 10% withholding Tax on my UK Dividends).