UK pensions

[billd766]

  On 9/14/2016 at 3:55 AM, ignis said:

Vogie..

 

I have a letter from DWP [OK is a bit old] showing the weekly Pension payment in £  paid every 4 weeks into my Thai Bank account... I scanned it into PC so always have it......... also my Thai Bank sends a SMS every 4 weeks which shows the payment + the exchange rate..  would the Embassy accept that ?

 

On another note if you are contacting DWP they will send you a 'snail mail' letter which appears to take 4 - 6 weeks... hope you have plenty of time before the Extension is due.

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My extension is due for renewal on 23rd August annually. I start my preparation for that after the early bank holiday in May by calling the pension providers far a letter stating GROSS pension only for the year.

 

These take around a month to arrive and in early July I apply to the UK embassy for a confirmation letter using their form.

 

Soon after 23 July I go to the Immigration Office in Nakhon Sawan (soon to be Khampaeng Phet) and apply for the extension which gives me a slack time of a month to sort out any problems before 23rd August. So far over 6 years I have had no problems. Immigration then stamp me up for another year from 23rd August and My 90 day report is updated from that date too.

 

It works for me.

[vogie]

  On 9/14/2016 at 5:49 AM, billd766 said:

 

My extension is due for renewal on 23rd August annually. I start my preparation for that after the early bank holiday in May by calling the pension providers far a letter stating GROSS pension only for the year.

 

These take around a month to arrive and in early July I apply to the UK embassy for a confirmation letter using their form.

 

Soon after 23 July I go to the Immigration Office in Nakhon Sawan (soon to be Khampaeng Phet) and apply for the extension which gives me a slack time of a month to sort out any problems before 23rd August. So far over 6 years I have had no problems. Immigration then stamp me up for another year from 23rd August and My 90 day report is updated from that date too.

 

It works for me.

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Bill my private pension provider automatically sends me a letter every year to tell me how much my pension will be for the year including a monthly breakdown of it. So if I used this in conjunction with my original letter from the DWP, I guessing I should be ok?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[nontabury]

  On 9/14/2016 at 5:41 AM, billd766 said:

 

There is an interesting website here on the claims of the members of the House of Lords up until April 2015 on a monthly basis. Members of the House can claim up to £300 per session/day as an attendance allowance.

 

http://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/house-of-lords-expenses/

 

and here for UK MPs.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_Members_of_the_United_Kingdom_Parliament

 

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Check how much Members of Parliament can receive from their private Parliamentary pensions,including non contributions, possible the most generous in the UK. What I have been unable to find out,is this pension frozen if the retired M.P decides to retire to Thailand.Anybody know the answer?

[dick dasterdly]

  On 9/14/2016 at 6:02 AM, nontabury said:

 

Check how much Members of Parliament can receive from their private Parliamentary pensions,including non contributions, possible the most generous in the UK. What I have been unable to find out,is this pension frozen if the retired M.P decides to retire to Thailand.Anybody know the answer?

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I've no doubt that they are private pensions - and therefore (like everybody elses' private pensions), not frozen.

 

I think I'm right in saying that only state pensions are frozen if the recipient moves to certain countries.

[billd766]

  On 9/14/2016 at 6:00 AM, vogie said:

 

Bill my private pension provider automatically sends me a letter every year to tell me how much my pension will be for the year including a monthly breakdown of it. So if I used this in conjunction with my original letter from the DWP, I guessing I should be ok?

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I usually ring the state pension people in Newcastle as well and they are good for that letter. Apart from the usual security questions all they asked from me was the start and finish date I wanted. The letter generally takes about a month to come through.

[evadgib]

  On 9/14/2016 at 5:15 AM, vogie said:

Does my P60 show my government pension?

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I'm not sure as I don't yet receive state pension. AFAIA the only type of Govt pension not included on a P60 are War Disability pensions which are tax free.

[evadgib]

Pensions Dashboard prototype to be ready by spring 2017

[vogie]

  On 9/14/2016 at 8:15 AM, evadgib said:

 

I'm not sure as I don't yet receive state pension. AFAIA the only type of Govt pension not included on a P60 are War Disability pensions which are tax free.

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Yeah I have a P60, but it only shows my private pension, it seems the DWP doesn't send out paperwork.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

  On 9/14/2016 at 9:36 AM, dick dasterdly said:

I know what you mean, but perhaps the government should start finding the money by cutting back on things that benefit the wealthy (and by association themselves), rather than benefits that ordinary people have paid for throughout their lives?

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More often than not the wealthy too have have paid throughout their working lives for the benefits they receive. The proper qualification for the receipt of a benefit should not be your measure of wealth but whether you contributed to the system in the first place. I often see articles and comments in the media expressing outrage at wealthy pensioners receiving free bus passes and free prescriptions etc, while disregarding the fact that the pensioner on £45,000 a year is say a retired GP who has worked hard for his qualifications and spent is working life in a demanding job. Why should he not enjoy a prosperous retirement and what factor, other than the size of his hard earned pension, would make him less deserving ?

I don't resent people who have worked hard to become wealthy but I certainly despise those  who have spent a lifetime of laziness living on benefits.

The problem with war zone migrants is that only a proportion of them are genuine refugees but to these we should extend the hand of friendship including dipping into our pockets to help them.. 

 

[rockingrobin]

  On 9/14/2016 at 9:49 AM, chiang mai said:

 

I can agree with that entirely. I think there's a list of priorities and the UK expat pension uplift issue is in there somewhere, I do think however that humanitarian aid is higher up that list. Trying to source savings for expat pensions from other sources is definitely a starter, the question is where, BTW they need to be real savings and not just avoided costs.

 

 

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The real issue about  frozen pensions in order for any uprating to occur a change in law is required.

[dick dasterdly]

  On 9/14/2016 at 10:02 AM, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

More often than not the wealthy too have have paid throughout their working lives for the benefits they receive. The proper qualification for the receipt of a benefit should not be your measure of wealth but whether you contributed to the system in the first place. I often see articles and comments in the media expressing outrage at wealthy pensioners receiving free bus passes and free prescriptions etc, while disregarding the fact that the pensioner on £45,000 a year is say a retired GP who has worked hard for his qualifications and spent is working life in a demanding job. Why should he not enjoy a prosperous retirement and what factor, other than the size of his hard earned pension, would make him less deserving ?

I don't resent people who have worked hard to become wealthy but I certainly despise those  who have spent a lifetime of laziness living on benefits.

The problem with war zone migrants is that only a proportion of them are genuine refugees but to these we should extend the hand of friendship including dipping into our pockets to help them.. 

 

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I'm pretty sure that you're deliberately missing my point.....

 

Those with a 45,000 annual pension are unlikely to use buses or free prescriptions - but if they do, then fair enough - they've paid for it.

 

As I'm sure you know, I was referring to the way the system is skewed to tax at source the average person - whilst the wealthy (including companies) employ accountants to find ways around paying anything like the same proportion of tax on their incomes.

 

Not to mention MPs' pensions - which are WAY beyond even the best company scheme!

 

I wouldn't mind quite so much if the government hadn't decimated company and ordinary government employees schemes, whilst ensuring that their own ridiculous pension scheme wasn't touched.....

[chiang mai]

  On 9/14/2016 at 10:26 AM, rockingrobin said:

The real issue about  frozen pensions in order for any uprating to occur a change in law is required.

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  On 9/14/2016 at 10:26 AM, rockingrobin said:

The real issue about  frozen pensions in order for any uprating to occur a change in law is required.

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I think the real issue is lack of reason to do it, fairness as a reason and on its own, isn't enough - when was the last time that government gave away money on the basis of it being fair, alone, hmm.

[theoldgit]

Some more off topic posts removed, please keep this thread focused on direct UK Pension issues, not the poor souls who need humanitarian aid.

[mrjohn]

Information update for anyone on this forum who is about to fill in their pension claim form.

I downloaded the form a couple of days ago but I had a couple of queries, so I telephoned yesterday to ask a few questions.

The woman I spoke to said that they had a pilot scheme in place, such that you could do the entire claim by telephone.  “What time would you like us to call?” She said, “we open 8 o’clock in the morning.”

Currently, that’s 2 o’clock in the afternoon here, so perfectly convenient.

She emailed me confirmation of the appointment and somebody called me just before 2 PM.

The whole process took about 20 minutes and I was assured that my claim would be processed immediately. He even told me how much I was going to get.

Apart from anything else, this saved me the effort of going to the post office and shelling out over 1000 Bht for EMS service and the anxiety of having to wait for the form to arrive only for some government pen pusher to find something wrong with it!

Only one word of warning, I insisted that they read back my details to make sure everything was hundred per cent correct and I was glad I did.

My bank account number was incorrect!

Only a minor detail I’m sure………

Nevertheless, I urge anyone who is about to make a claim to take advantage of this service as it saves money, time and stress.

 

[evadgib]

Pensioners to benefit from reforms to long service cap

[chiang mai]

Thinking about what could be coming down the pipe in the future, I'm reminded of what action other countries are taking against their pensioners in order to try and balance the books, almost certainly UK government will not be blind to these things hence they remain possible rather than probable.

 

Most recently, Australia now stops paying pensions to anyone who is out of the country for more than a shockingly short six weeks every year, the issue is discussed here:

And the US of course now applies a mandatory 24.5% Federal tax at source on US SSc pension payments to non-resident green card holders, an action that may well be escalated under Trump. What that tax says is, you may well have earned your pension in the US by making at least ten years of SSc contributions (think NI), BUT, since you no longer live in the US we're going to tax you on it.

 

These things are not posted in order to scaremonger (I know how you love that word) but in order to make people aware of what other countries are doing because as budgets gets tighter, UK government is almost certainly going to look for areas to save money and expat pensioners are a soft target, forewarned is forearmed.

[i claudius]

  On 9/17/2016 at 11:26 PM, chiang mai said:

Thinking about what could be coming down the pipe in the future, I'm reminded of what action other countries are taking against their pensioners in order to try and balance the books, almost certainly UK government will not be blind to these things hence they remain possible rather than probable.

 

Most recently, Australia now stops paying pensions to anyone who is out of the country for more than a shockingly short six weeks every year, the issue is discussed here:

And the US of course now applies a mandatory 24.5% Federal tax at source on US SSc pension payments to non-resident green card holders, an action that may well be escalated under Trump. What that tax says is, you may well have earned your pension in the US by making at least ten years of SSc contributions (think NI), BUT, since you no longer live in the US we're going to tax you on it.

 

These things are not posted in order to scaremonger (I know how you love that word) but in order to make people aware of what other countries are doing because as budgets gets tighter, UK government is almost certainly going to look for areas to save money and expat pensioners are a soft target, forewarned is forearmed.

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And some people wonder why so many pensioners here keep a British address

[ubonjoe]

Some bickering posts between 2 members has been removed. Time to end it.

[dick dasterdly]

  On 9/17/2016 at 11:26 PM, chiang mai said:

Thinking about what could be coming down the pipe in the future, I'm reminded of what action other countries are taking against their pensioners in order to try and balance the books, almost certainly UK government will not be blind to these things hence they remain possible rather than probable.

 

Most recently, Australia now stops paying pensions to anyone who is out of the country for more than a shockingly short six weeks every year, the issue is discussed here:

And the US of course now applies a mandatory 24.5% Federal tax at source on US SSc pension payments to non-resident green card holders, an action that may well be escalated under Trump. What that tax says is, you may well have earned your pension in the US by making at least ten years of SSc contributions (think NI), BUT, since you no longer live in the US we're going to tax you on it.

 

These things are not posted in order to scaremonger (I know how you love that word) but in order to make people aware of what other countries are doing because as budgets gets tighter, UK government is almost certainly going to look for areas to save money and expat pensioners are a soft target, forewarned is forearmed.

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Its been obvious for many years that the government has been trying to reduce the state pension 'bill' - mainly by increasing the retirement age.

 

Consequently I decided it was prudent to assume that if I ever reach the state pensionable age - it would either no longer exist, or not be payable to those who had moved abroad. 

[chiang mai]

  On 9/18/2016 at 4:45 AM, dick dasterdly said:

Its been obvious for many years that the government has been trying to reduce the state pension 'bill' - mainly by increasing the retirement age.

 

Consequently I decided it was prudent to assume that if I ever reach the state pensionable age - it would either no longer exist, or not be payable to those who had moved abroad. 

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I think it's always useful to try and look ahead to try and foresee what might be coming down the pipe and looking at what other countries are doing is one way of doing that. FWIW I think the next thing to hit will be the cancellation of the personal allowances which was discussed but then put on the back burner.

[dick dasterdly]

  On 9/18/2016 at 8:04 AM, chiang mai said:

 

I think it's always useful to try and look ahead to try and foresee what might be coming down the pipe and looking at what other countries are doing is one way of doing that. FWIW I think the next thing to hit will be the cancellation of the personal allowances which was discussed but then put on the back burner.

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I missed that!  Do you have a link?

[chiang mai]

  On 9/18/2016 at 8:24 AM, dick dasterdly said:

I missed that!  Do you have a link?

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It was 18 months or so ago, this explains:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/11272572/Expats-will-keep-their-tax-break.html

[partington]

  On 9/17/2016 at 11:26 PM, chiang mai said:

Thinking about what could be coming down the pipe in the future, I'm reminded of what action other countries are taking against their pensioners in order to try and balance the books, almost certainly UK government will not be blind to these things hence they remain possible rather than probable.

 

Most recently, Australia now stops paying pensions to anyone who is out of the country for more than a shockingly short six weeks every year, the issue is discussed here:

And the US of course now applies a mandatory 24.5% Federal tax at source on US SSc pension payments to non-resident green card holders, an action that may well be escalated under Trump. What that tax says is, you may well have earned your pension in the US by making at least ten years of SSc contributions (think NI), BUT, since you no longer live in the US we're going to tax you on it.

 

These things are not posted in order to scaremonger (I know how you love that word) but in order to make people aware of what other countries are doing because as budgets gets tighter, UK government is almost certainly going to look for areas to save money and expat pensioners are a soft target, forewarned is forearmed.

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There are two inaccuracies exaggerating the effect on pensions here however:

 

Firstly the Australians  do not STOP paying pensions to people who have been absent for more than six weeks: they apply the reduction to a rate that is proportional to the number of years of contributions after six weeks absence. This is still unfair but it is NOT a cessation of all payment.

 

Secondly, as regards US social security payments, the 24.5% withholding (if it's not 30% like it is now for retirement account payments!) is just a withholding and not a final tax rate. Residents of many countries that have a tax treaty with the US (like the UK ) have social security payments taxed in their residence country, so on filling in the correct forms a 0% tax is applied.

 

Secondly if more tax than is owed has been withheld the tax can be claimed back by filling in the correct tax form. As far as I'm aware social security payments are taxed as income, so if your only US income is social security the final tax rate can be very much less than is withheld, and you get a refund.

 

Again a hassle to go through however.

[chiang mai]

  On 9/18/2016 at 10:03 AM, partington said:

  

There are two inaccuracies exaggerating the effect on pensions here however:

 

Firstly the Australians  do not STOP paying pensions to people who have been absent for more than six weeks: they apply the reduction to a rate that is proportional to the number of years of contributions after six weeks absence. This is still unfair but it is NOT a cessation of all payment.

 

Secondly, as regards US social security payments, the 24.5% withholding (if it's not 30% like it is now for retirement account payments!) is just a withholding and not a final tax rate. Residents of many countries that have a tax treaty with the US (like the UK ) have social security payments taxed in their residence country, so on filling in the correct forms a 0% tax is applied.

 

Secondly if more tax than is owed has been withheld the tax can be claimed back by filling in the correct tax form. As far as I'm aware social security payments are taxed as income, so if your only US income is social security the final tax rate can be very much less than is withheld, and you get a refund.

 

Again a hassle to go through however.

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Yes you're correct in respect of Australia, the pension is reduced not stopped, my inadvertent error.

 

However the US tax of 24.5% at source is correct as stated. The withholding is indeed 24.5% which is payable if the green card holder doesn't live in the US or the UK, I know, I pay it at source! And since filing a US tax return involves declaring world wide income, including UK state pension and with a personal allowance of only USD 9,750, the effect is that the US SSc income tax paid at source, remains as is.

 

 

[partington]

  On 9/18/2016 at 10:38 AM, chiang mai said:

 

Yes you're correct in respect of Australia, the pension is reduced not stopped, my inadvertent error.

 

However the US tax of 24.5% at source is correct as stated. The withholding is indeed 24.5% which is payable if the green card holder doesn't live in the US or the UK, I know, I pay it at source! And since filing a US tax return involves declaring world wide income, including UK state pension and with a personal allowance of only USD 9,750, the effect is that the US SSc income tax paid at source, remains as is.

 

 

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 Fair enough if you are a long term green card holder, and you don't want to declare world-wide income your safest bet is to just suck up the tax.

 

I was just pointing out that it is not inevitable: for just this reason I abandoned my green card formally at a US Embassy, thus removing myself from long term resident status and all worldwide tax obligations, and now am only taxed on, and only obliged to declare, US source income.  

[chiang mai]

  On 9/18/2016 at 10:45 AM, partington said:

 Fair enough if you are a long term green card holder, and you don't want to declare world-wide income your safest bet is to just suck up the tax.

 

I was just pointing out that it is not inevitable: for just this reason I abandoned my green card formally at a US Embassy, thus removing myself from long term resident status and all worldwide tax obligations, and now am only taxed on, and only obliged to declare, US source income.  

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Before we close this aspect and return to focus on UK Pensions, before somebody yells at us:

 

It's is indeed not inevitable but it's as close as, since most ex Green Card holders have income streams from their own countries and the US knows this, hence the tax at source. It's only the fact the UK does not allow overseas pensions to be taxed at source whilst recipients live in the UK that offers some respite, not much however since the information exchange channels between UK HMRC and the US SSc are several lanes wide in both directions!

[partington]

  On 9/18/2016 at 10:51 AM, chiang mai said:

 

Before we close this aspect and return to focus on UK Pensions, before somebody yells at us:

 

It's is indeed not inevitable but it's as close as, since most ex Green Card holders have income streams from their own countries and the US knows this, hence the tax at source. It's only the fact the UK does not allow overseas pensions to be taxed at source whilst recipients live in the UK that offers some respite, not much however since the information exchange channels between UK HMRC and the US SSc are several lanes wide in both directions!

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OK we are dragging this off course a bit, but one last thing: it doesn't matter if you have foreign income if you are an (official and tax-compliant up to the day you abandoned the card) ex-green card holder.

 

As a non-US person this isn't taxable by the US according to IRS law. I know this for a fact : you only count US source income when you are a non-US person.

 

The withholding is a guard in case you don't bother to fill in a tax form. In my case I have a US retirement plan that has a mandatory withholding of 30%(!).  If I draw $10,000 from it I can reclaim all this tax back as it is my only US-source income, and it is taxed at ordinary US graduated income tax rates.

[chiang mai]

  On 9/18/2016 at 10:59 AM, partington said:

 

 

OK we are dragging this off course a bit, but one last thing: it doesn't matter if you have foreign income if you are an (official and tax-compliant up to the day you abandoned the card) ex-green card holder.

 

As a non-US person this isn't taxable by the US according to IRS law. I know this for a fact : you only count US source income when you are a non-US person.

 

The withholding is a guard in case you don't bother to fill in a tax form. In my case I have a US retirement plan that has a mandatory withholding of 30%(!).  If I draw $10,000 from it I can reclaim all this tax back as it is my only US-source income, and it is taxed at ordinary US graduated income tax rates.

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Continue via PM if we may.

[Liquorice]

May I ask what your nationality is Chiang Mai?

British, American or Australian.

Just wondering as you constantly deviate from this topic (UK Pensions) and when mentioned, you reply you don't need lectures.

Obviously you do, or at least a reminder.

 

I think a few members who have followed this topic are more than tired of the constant deviations (Moderators note) and to be honest, frankly I don't care about the Australian or US Pensions as they don't affect me as a British national.

As for speculating what may be coming in the pipeline, we won't know until it's in the pipeline, so why speculate!