UK pensions

[i claudius]

I would never pay into a pension scheme that the govt force you to , all my life i have paid into the govt pension only to end up with one of the lowest pensions in Europe , my private pension was stolen by Gormlas Brown and his Labour buddies , and all the cash i saved so that i could get a nice rate of interest has been decimated , while i had the cash ,no benifits , now as that dwindles i get no interest to talk of ,

my advice to today's young , spend it now enjoying yourself ,because when you get old you are going to get nothing from the state and if you do look after your future ,the state will steal it, so you will still be poor .

[Johnniey]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

I would never pay into a pension scheme that the govt force you to , all my life i have paid into the govt pension only to end up with one of the lowest pensions in Europe , my private pension was stolen by Gormlas Brown and his Labour buddies , and all the cash i saved so that i could get a nice rate of interest has been decimated , while i had the cash ,no benifits , now as that dwindles i get no interest to talk of ,

my advice to today's young , spend it now enjoying yourself ,because when you get old you are going to get nothing from the state and if you do look after your future ,the state will steal it, so you will still be poor .

Really? You wouldn't recommend I pay £1500 for 10 years payments,?

 

What the alternative? Maybe my kids will look after me, or half anyways as they're half caste Thais.

[i claudius]

Really? You wouldn't recommend I pay £1500 for 10 years payments,?
 
What the alternative? Maybe my kids will look after me, or half anyways as they're half caste Thais.

Sorry I do not know your age. I was just talking about young people just starting out in life

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[steve187]

paying class 2 as voluntary contribution, comes with some hoops - https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions

[rockingrobin]

On 10/14/2016 at 4:06 PM, Johnniey said:

I got good news today from HM Revenue and Customs.

 

I made an inquiry 6 years ago and was told I could pay back 6 years at about  GBP 700 a year. I chose not to.

 

I made more inquiries recently and they sent me a letter saying I qualify for voluntary Class 2 contributions. Also I can pay back 10 years at about GBP 140 a year! great news. Then I can pay for the next 10 years to get the full pension for paying 30 years.

 

One thing they didn't tell me was where to send it to and how. Does anyone know?

 

Anyway, 1500 quid for 10 years is a lot better than 7000, so I chuffed today!

30 yrs would equate to the pre single tier pension

[JB300]

paying class 2 as voluntary contribution, comes with some hoops - https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions

Thanks for the link, Very interesting.

My situation is that I was in a final salary scheme (contracted out of SERPS) for 20 years, a couple of years in a Defined Contribution scheme (again pretty sure I was contracted out), own business for a couple of years (no contributions, paid myself minimum wage) & have been working overseas for the last 8 years so my state pension estimate is approx £2k per year.

As I'm 50 I could pay 23 years (6 back dated & 17 until I'm 67), type 2 contributions (living & working overseas) but is it worth it & would my previous (contracted out) contributions count towards the 35 years?

Have a seperate question for anybody who's receiving pension from a final salary scheme, mine says it reduces by the state pension when it kicks in so if I were to make additional payments would I just end up with the same amount & the pension company would be pocketing the extra state pension?

[Johnniey]

5 hours ago, i claudius said:

I would never pay into a pension scheme that the govt force you to , all my life i have paid into the govt pension only to end up with one of the lowest pensions in Europe , my private pension was stolen by Gormlas Brown and his Labour buddies , and all the cash i saved so that i could get a nice rate of interest has been decimated , while i had the cash ,no benifits , now as that dwindles i get no interest to talk of ,

my advice to today's young , spend it now enjoying yourself ,because 

8 minutes ago, JB300 said:

 

 

Thanks for the link, Very interesting.

My situation is that I was in a final salary scheme (contracted out of SERPS) for 20 years, a couple of years in a Defined Contribution scheme (again pretty sure I was contracted out), own business for a couple of years (no contributions, paid myself minimum wage) & have been working overseas for the last 8 years so my state pension estimate is approx £2k per year.

As I'm 50 I could pay 23 years (6 back dated & 17 until I'm 67), type 2 contributions (living & working overseas) but is it worth it & would my previous (contracted out) contributions count towards the 35 years?

Have a seperate question for anybody who's receiving pension from a final salary scheme, mine says it reduces by the state pension when it kicks in so if I were to make additional payments would I just end up with the same amount & the pension company would be pocketing the savings?

 

 

For me paying back 10 years for £1500 is a no brainer.

That equates to about £40 a week. I would have to live for 1 year after I retire to make a profit :-)

Edited October 16, 2016 by Johnniey

[JB300]

Sounds like a no-brainer for you [emoji106]

I'm just worried that I pay 23 years, my state pension goes from £2k to (say) £5k but all that happens when I get it is that my final salary pension reduces by £5k instead of £2k (I.e. I've paid the extra contributions but only receive the same pension)

[steve187]

get a pension forecast - https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

28 minutes ago, JB300 said:

 

Sounds like a no-brainer for you

I'm just worried that I pay 23 years, my state pension goes from £2k to (say) £5k but all that happens when I get it is that my final salary pension reduces by £5k instead of £2k (I.e. I've paid the extra contributions but only receive the same pension)
 

 

Why not write to your final salary scheme provider and ask them to advise whether a purchase of further state pension benefits would have that effect.  In the same letter, ask for a copy of the pension scheme  Trust Deed and Rules and a copy of the Disputes Resolution Procedure. That way you will have their definitive answer in writing, the means to double check whether what you have been told is accurate and details of the procedure to follow should you disagree. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[rockingrobin]

3 hours ago, JB300 said:

Thanks for the link, Very interesting.

My situation is that I was in a final salary scheme (contracted out of SERPS) for 20 years, a couple of years in a Defined Contribution scheme (again pretty sure I was contracted out), own business for a couple of years (no contributions, paid myself minimum wage) & have been working overseas for the last 8 years so my state pension estimate is approx £2k per year.

As I'm 50 I could pay 23 years (6 back dated & 17 until I'm 67), type 2 contributions (living & working overseas) but is it worth it & would my previous (contracted out) contributions count towards the 35 years?

Have a seperate question for anybody who's receiving pension from a final salary scheme, mine says it reduces by the state pension when it kicks in so if I were to make additional payments would I just end up with the same amount & the pension company would be pocketing the extra state pension?

The final salary scheme reducing by the amount of state pension does not seem right, whilst contracted out you are still contributing to the basic state pension. Some schemes when taking benefits from DB pensions give the option of level payment, you take a higher amount from the DB untill reaching state pension age at which point it drops with the state pension making up shortfall.

The contracted out years do count towards the state pension.

[JB300]

The final salary scheme reducing by the amount of state pension does not seem right, whilst contracted out you are still contributing to the basic state pension. Some schemes when taking benefits from DB pensions give the option of level payment, you take a higher amount from the DB untill reaching state pension age at which point it drops with the state pension making up shortfall.

The contracted out years do count towards the state pension.

I know that the Final Salary scheme drops by the amount I receive from the state pension as it was those guys that estimated it would be around £22k and gave me the before & after estimates of what I would get.

Will do as suggested & drop them an email to confirm / get an updated position.

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/15/2016 at 0:35 PM, nong38 said:

A pension report yesterday says that the current system is unsustainable and the current planned new retirement ages will need to be addressed again. This report is from John Cridland former chief of the CBI and was carried on the BBC and in the press.

Many HMGs need to look at themselves for not dealing with this problem before and just handing it over to the next lot. Everyone knew there were less and less workers for more and more pensioners coming and yet they took no action and made to few plans too late.

The State pension is not going to give future pensioners any quality of life and young people need to be told this and start early to fund your retirement. I have seen little evidence of this or any encouragement to do so.

Someone needs to grasp the nettle and set down some guidelines for the future rather than just keep pushing it away.

People need to be paying into a designated State Pension fund and also a work scheme also and it cannot be left to the individual to do it, they need to be forced to do it by law or it wont happen. clearly the NI part is not doing its job and ordinary taxes are able to fill the gap or they wont be in the near future. Are we lucky to be where we are in this pension game?

Whilst I'm inclined to agree, it would be even better if we could go back to the 'old days' when companies provided good pension schemes.

 

Yes, yes I know - the world has changed and any company offering a good pension scheme isn't as competitive.  But is this really an excuse when the gap between rich and poor is getting ever wider?

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/16/2016 at 10:09 AM, i claudius said:

I would never pay into a pension scheme that the govt force you to , all my life i have paid into the govt pension only to end up with one of the lowest pensions in Europe , my private pension was stolen by Gormlas Brown and his Labour buddies , and all the cash i saved so that i could get a nice rate of interest has been decimated , while i had the cash ,no benifits , now as that dwindles i get no interest to talk of ,

my advice to today's young , spend it now enjoying yourself ,because when you get old you are going to get nothing from the state and if you do look after your future ,the state will steal it, so you will still be poor .

Good points, and I'm v sorry that your pension was stolen one way or another - although I'm not convinced it was entirely down to the government's 'cash grab'.

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/15/2016 at 9:34 AM, meatboy said:

one thing they didnt tell you unless you already know,if you peg it before your 67.

 

On 10/16/2016 at 11:13 AM, Johnniey said:

Really? You wouldn't recommend I pay £1500 for 10 years payments,?

 

What the alternative? Maybe my kids will look after me, or half anyways as they're half caste Thais.

As always, its a personal decision.

 

My husband died at 59 and most of my relatives have died in their 60s - so personally, it makes sense (in my case) not to rely on reaching the age of 67 (or older as the age limit is increased).

 

I think family history tells you quite a lot as to how long you are likely to live, and consequently the decisions to make.

[nong38]

I was lucky to have been a member of non-contributory final salary pension scheme, it has recently changed to a contributory final pension scheme whereby members are required to contribute 4.5% and the company make a contribution as well. If I had still been at work I would not have minded too much about that, I would have put more in if I could to have a good retirement.

I retired at 60 and the company paid me my pension in full from that time and also paid me the equivalent to the State pension until I was old enough to claim it, an offer I could not refuse, that too is being phased out.

Unless people are forced to pay into a pension scheme today they wont, they want to enjoy their lives now and buy property, that I understand but its also not responsible to arrive at retirement with next to nothing to see you through and throw yourself upon the State to bail you out. A way must be found otherwise there is going to be financial disaster over the horizon.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

As always, its a personal decision.

 

My husband died at 59 and most of my relatives have died in their 60s - so personally, it makes sense (in my case) not to rely on reaching the age of 67 (or older as the age limit is increased).

 

I think family history tells you quite a lot as to how long you are likely to live, and consequently the decisions to make.

 

I am not so sure about that.

 

My eldest brother died aged about 7 months. My Mum and Dad were both 69 (and 15 years apart) when they died. My Grandmum on my Mum's side was 78 and my Granddad was 82 when they died.

 

I am 72 and from my family history most of my uncles and aunts seemed to be in their 70s and 80s when they died.

[ignis]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I am not so sure about that.

 

My eldest brother died aged about 7 months. My Mum and Dad were both 69 (and 15 years apart) when they died. My Grandmum on my Mum's side was 78 and my Granddad was 82 when they died.

 

I am 72 and from my family history most of my uncles and aunts seemed to be in their 70s and 80s when they died.

 

Not at all sure about family history....  My Mother,  2 of her brothers and 1 sister all died in there 40's, of the 6 only 1 is still alive aged 84.. most of my cousins have died between 40 - 50...  My father died early 70, but his only + younger sister died some years before...  so cannot see anything as a guide in family history

[Johnniey]

My father died this year aged 80. My grandmothers died aged 99 and 83. My grandfathers however died at 35 and 61.

I abused my body for 20 years but looked after it the rest of the time, so who knows?

 

It is a gamble for sure but better safe than sorry, with no money.

 

 

[jpinx]

Family traits are only part of the story.  My dad killed himself with cigarettes and died at 75, but 2 of his clean living brothers lasted till they were 96 and 102 !!!   Previous generations did not have the benefit of decent health care and awareness of bad habits.

Edited October 18, 2016 by jpinx

[NoshowJones]

On 10/16/2016 at 10:09 AM, i claudius said:

I would never pay into a pension scheme that the govt force you to , all my life i have paid into the govt pension only to end up with one of the lowest pensions in Europe , my private pension was stolen by Gormlas Brown and his Labour buddies , and all the cash i saved so that i could get a nice rate of interest has been decimated , while i had the cash ,no benifits , now as that dwindles i get no interest to talk of ,

my advice to today's young , spend it now enjoying yourself ,because when you get old you are going to get nothing from the state and if you do look after your future ,the state will steal it, so you will still be poor .

Well the UK government has to pay benefits to Muslims and their wives, yes I said wives not wife.

I read a report about this, and nothing would surprise me about what the UK government does with the taxpayers money. 

I know benefits are benefits, and state pensions are not benefits but entitlements, but at the end of the day, all that money 

and overseas aid, MPs "expenses" etc, all come out of the taxpayers pocket in one way or another.

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by possum1931
Just look at these paragraphs, that is not the way I wrote this post.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/17/2016 at 5:07 PM, dick dasterdly said:

Good points, and I'm v sorry that your pension was stolen one way or another - although I'm not convinced it was entirely down to the government's 'cash grab'.

Gordon Brown raided the pension funds. Fact.

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/17/2016 at 5:16 PM, dick dasterdly said:

 

As always, its a personal decision.

 

My husband died at 59 and most of my relatives have died in their 60s - so personally, it makes sense (in my case) not to rely on reaching the age of 67 (or older as the age limit is increased).

 

I think family history tells you quite a lot as to how long you are likely to live, and consequently the decisions to make.

 

On 10/17/2016 at 9:41 PM, billd766 said:

 

I am not so sure about that.

 

My eldest brother died aged about 7 months. My Mum and Dad were both 69 (and 15 years apart) when they died. My Grandmum on my Mum's side was 78 and my Granddad was 82 when they died.

 

I am 72 and from my family history most of my uncles and aunts seemed to be in their 70s and 80s when they died.

Yes, my elder brother died at around 1 year (water on the brain) and the daughter, following my birth died when born.  Its irrelevant.

 

My post was about looking at family history to take an educated guess at life expectancy.

 

Bearing in mind my relatives have mostly died in their early 60's (a few younger, a few a bit later) it makes perfect sense to me to look at family history as to how long we are likely to survive - and therefore whether or not it is likely to be worthwhile 'topping up' the state pension scheme.

[evadgib]

A letter appealing HMRC's decision to refuse a request to resume paying NI at the SE rate has yet to be answered despite being traced to their office on 05 Sep. I'll re-send in the morning...

[JB300]

Not UK specific but a view on the Global Pension position & includes some reference to the UK


The coming Pensions Crisis https://www.citivelocity.com/citigps/CitiGPSVideo.action

Interesting points:-
- Current Pension obligations are roughly 2x the known OECD countries looked at debt
- Pensions were based on people living 12 years in retirement, average is now 20 (which suggests the pension age should be raised to 73)
- Social Security (US Pensions) should be for people in need not an automatic entitlement.

[Expattaff1308]

This was from 2015 - Now theres no surprise why pensioners are treated unfairly.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dwp-staff-received-almost-140-million-in-bonuses-over-the-last-three-years-a6725371.html

[nontabury]

28 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

This was from 2015 - Now theres no surprise why pensioners are treated unfairly.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dwp-staff-received-almost-140-million-in-bonuses-over-the-last-three-years-a6725371.html

 

  And some people call Thailand corrupt.

[theoldgit]

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

  And some people call Thailand corrupt.

I have to jump in here, just because some Civil Servants received bonuses it isn't a sign of corruption, they use it as a long term strategy to save money, the article hints at it but doesn't explain it when it mentions non consolidated payments.
Civil Servants used to get automatic salary increases based on service and performance, over the last few years instead of getting an actual rise they paid bonuses, they were not consolidated so were not taken into consideration when calculating pensions, thus saving money for years to come.  

[dick dasterdly]

18 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

This was from 2015 - Now theres no surprise why pensioners are treated unfairly.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dwp-staff-received-almost-140-million-in-bonuses-over-the-last-three-years-a6725371.html

Quite.

[dick dasterdly]

8 hours ago, theoldgit said:

I have to jump in here, just because some Civil Servants received bonuses it isn't a sign of corruption, they use it as a long term strategy to save money, the article hints at it but doesn't explain it when it mentions non consolidated payments.
Civil Servants used to get automatic salary increases based on service and performance, over the last few years instead of getting an actual rise they paid bonuses, they were not consolidated so were not taken into consideration when calculating pensions, thus saving money for years to come.  

Ah yes, I remember when large companies reduced overall income increases for employees, and changed it to largely only paying increases to those deemed to have performed well.  It started a few decades ago.

 

At the time I was working for a branch of a UK based, but International company - and one of the 'bigwigs' visited the profitable branch to explain the change to the employees.  Once he'd finished his 'spiel' and asked for any questions, I stood up and asked how this could not end up as a 'blue-eyed boy' syndrome'.

 

Much to my suprise (as I'd never met the man previously), he addressed me by name (!) and assured me this wouldn't happen .  It took me by suprise as I hadn't thought of myself as a particular 'troublemaker', but obviously one of those in charge thought otherwise!  I think I know who warned him, as a while previously I'd been 'called in' to talk to the dept. manager about my move to another dept. and why I was going to be paid less than the others in the department to which I was moving....

 

As the conversation progressed, I mentioned that I also wasn't impressed by the higher 'grades' being given a higher percentage salary increase than those on the lowest grades (all agreed by the Union ) - but he explained that those earning more money needed a higher percentage increase because their expenditure was far higher . 

 

Obviously I pointed out the ridiculousness of this argument, and subsequently was proven right about the 'blue eyed boy' syndrome - but he held it against me and tried to block my move to a very good position in the Group GHO - refusing to release my 'file' and claiming I was indispensible to his dept.....

 

It didn't work and I was recruited by GHO anyway - BUT, never underestimate the determination of those with power to ensure they receive ever increasing bonuses (whilst ensuring that the normal employee receives v little, if anything).

 

Edit - and the top people in the Civil service (the ones receiving the huge bonuses/peerages etc.) are one of the worst examples of this IMO.   They couldn't give a toss about anything other than their own power, prestige, income and obtaining directorships/consultancies etc. once they retire or move on.

Edited October 24, 2016 by dick dasterdly