2012 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

b19bry.

I have always been a big advocate of Jenson as a complete driver which is what it takes, not just an ability to drive fast but the ability to finish the race and take care of the car.

Lewis is undoubtably fast but that is not enough and I certainly would not write him off but last seasons performance and the look on his face at the press conference for me says it all, the man cannot handle the stress when things are not going his way and compared to Jenson adds very little to the team in regards to feed back.

Talking a good fight is one thing but what counts is the delivery and no delivery knocks the confidence whereas if you deliver we know that gives one a massive boost.

I really would like to see Lewis do well simply because he is British, as a person I have stated on previous posts in seasons past that I do not like him and that is not about to change anytime soon.

My feelings are that starting his career in a top car gave him a false reading of what to expect from his undoubted talents and not winning has dented that confidence. He may have benefited from a season or two in a lower team but Ron probably made him feel that he was unbeatable and he isn't and that has done him no favours.

Hi David,

Good to see you back on the forum and hope you and family are well.

Great post above and what i have always respected about you is your honesty about your feelings - ie you don't care much for Hamilton, and you do support Alonso - but despite these feelings, you still remain able to see and acknowledge the good and the bad in both those drivers. Although my position is somewhat the reverse of yours, i hope i too manage a reasonable amount of balance in my opinion, as well as honesty. Others will no doubt judge me on that, even if they fail to make an honest judgement about themselves on that score.

Regarding comments about Australia, what i didn't find particularly balanced or honest was those who, having led us to believe their primary interest is in the racing, not in the personalities, to have been almost squealing with pleasure because Hamilton finished third (the disgrace of it!) and was visibly not impressed with his performance. And as if the fact that he showed disappointment in himself, somehow reaffirms their belief in him being an ass-hole. I really don't get it. The chap can do no right.

And these same people, who were so quick to jump on the fact that he didn't look pleased as being some terrible character failing, offered no opinion whatsoever on Alonso's hissy-fit with the marshall. Too busy scrambling for superlatives at what a wonderful job he did in an under performing car on race day. Quite how they know it is under performing i don't really know. Massa is useless these days so we have no idea from him on how the car is, and Alonso's qualifying was so short lived thanks to the mistake he made - something that also, funnily enough, warranted no comment - that makes data on the Ferrari very limited. And I would actually say, judging by how fast the car went on Sunday, and even taking into account Alonso's undoubted skills at ringing the neck out of cars, it is pretty close to the top. Time will tell of course. In the meantime, i think Ferrari need to seriously consider giving Alonso a number two who is at least a little bit more worthy of the seat. Massa in a Ferrari is a waste for the sport.

Button drove an awesome race. I agree he is a great overall package and he now drives with a maturity that is worth an extra point one of a second per lap. Hamilton i believe can still beat him for pace, and Hamilton still has that audacious ability to do things that only really special drivers can do, but there are many other factors in what makes a Champion, and Button has a lot of them, and right now, he is getting the better of his team mate. How long will it last? Well, whilst i accept it is always possible that Hamilton will find the stress of being the one having to fight to get ahead, too much for him, and lead him in to mistakes, as we saw last year, i happen to think it more likely that it will spur him on to drive better. He's still pretty young of course, and this is all great experience for him, that will ultimately make him a better driver and a better person.

Anyway, like you, i am British, and i happen to be one of the few these days seemingly still proud of that fact. As such, having two very different but both very good drivers up there fighting it out is a dream scenario for me, and i shall be happy for either of them should they succeed.

That's not however to say i begrudge drivers who aren't British winning. Vettel has been great and he is a real class act. He has deserved his success.

That's also not to say i support drivers simply because they are British. I was never keen on Damon Hill and were it not for the fact that Schumi robbed him a title, i wouldn't have been at all happy to see such an average driver win it, as he did.

Anyway, i'm wandering a bit here. Looking forward to the next race. Bring it on...

[carmine]

F1 fanatic.

As Fernando signed a long term contract with Ferrari knowing that the car he was driving was certainly not top notch and as most of the teams improvements are only small increases I don't think Fernando realistically expected Ferrari to catch up and overtake the two main players this year but one should never underestimate him.

Alonso is in my opinion for what it's worth is still the best driver on the grid right now with Sebastian a very close second and unfortunately I believe Lewis will lose confidence in his belief that he is the best and is likely to drop down the pecking order, what is this, his 6th year in a very good car, perhaps not always the best but 1 WDC {just} I think he will be treated as number 2 driver and the team will get behind Jenson unless he wins a race very soon.

David.

Whilst i find Alonso instantly dislikeable if have to agree he is the best driver on the grid with Vettel a close-ish second.

If Raikkenan had the right car ans was fully motivated he could really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I also really wish Schumacher would retire.

[F1fanatic]

F1 fanatic.

As Fernando signed a long term contract with Ferrari knowing that the car he was driving was certainly not top notch and as most of the teams improvements are only small increases I don't think Fernando realistically expected Ferrari to catch up and overtake the two main players this year but one should never underestimate him.

Alonso is in my opinion for what it's worth is still the best driver on the grid right now with Sebastian a very close second and unfortunately I believe Lewis will lose confidence in his belief that he is the best and is likely to drop down the pecking order, what is this, his 6th year in a very good car, perhaps not always the best but 1 WDC {just} I think he will be treated as number 2 driver and the team will get behind Jenson unless he wins a race very soon.

David.

Whilst i find Alonso instantly dislikeable if have to agree he is the best driver on the grid with Vettel a close-ish second.

If Raikkenan had the right car ans was fully motivated he could really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I also really wish Schumacher would retire.

I'm keeping out of the Alonso/Hamilton debate (for the time being ) as we've only had one race. I also have few views on Kimi for the same reason.

BUT, why do you "really wish Schumacher would retire"? Do you think he is now an incompetent driver that shouldn't be allowed in F1?

[rixalex]

BUT, why do you "really wish Schumacher would retire"? Do you think he is now an incompetent driver that shouldn't be allowed in F1?

For me, Schumi has done his penance by driving a pretty bad car and having been out-performed consistently, but yet sticking with it and taking it on the chin. It must have dented his pride and i still feel it was a mistake for him to come back, but if he has some success now i think he has earnt it. The team no longer revolves around him as it always used to, and regulations don't now allow the sort of suspect tactics he used to employ at times.

Good luck to him. Four words i never thought i'd find myself wishing him. Times have indeed changed.

[carmine]

F1 fanatic.

As Fernando signed a long term contract with Ferrari knowing that the car he was driving was certainly not top notch and as most of the teams improvements are only small increases I don't think Fernando realistically expected Ferrari to catch up and overtake the two main players this year but one should never underestimate him.

Alonso is in my opinion for what it's worth is still the best driver on the grid right now with Sebastian a very close second and unfortunately I believe Lewis will lose confidence in his belief that he is the best and is likely to drop down the pecking order, what is this, his 6th year in a very good car, perhaps not always the best but 1 WDC {just} I think he will be treated as number 2 driver and the team will get behind Jenson unless he wins a race very soon.

David.

Whilst i find Alonso instantly dislikeable if have to agree he is the best driver on the grid with Vettel a close-ish second.

If Raikkenan had the right car ans was fully motivated he could really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I also really wish Schumacher would retire.

I'm keeping out of the Alonso/Hamilton debate (for the time being ) as we've only had one race. I also have few views on Kimi for the same reason.

BUT, why do you "really wish Schumacher would retire"? Do you think he is now an incompetent driver that shouldn't be allowed in F1?

Well i think every great champion should quit at the top.

Secondly i was rather horrified at some of his driving last season and the incident with Barricello should have earnt him a smack in the teeth. I feel at times he is pushing way past the acceptable limit and i remember Barricello being really shocked by it too.

I don't want to go into this though because as i said before i just like seeing the greats of sport finish at the top.

[F1fanatic]

Quite. So you have no personal feelings against Schumi but had to drag up one incident to support your point... A few other drivers have also taken it 'a step too far' recently.. Incidentally, the Reubens incident didn't result in a crash - unlike a few others.

If you don't like him just say so - don't use excuses!

[carmine]

Quite. So you have no personal feelings against Schumi but had to drag up one incident to support your point... A few other drivers have also taken it 'a step too far' recently.. Incidentally, the Reubens incident didn't result in a crash - unlike a few others.

If you don't like him just say so - don't use excuses!

If you want to go down that route then theres a very strong case that after the "Villeneuve incident' he should have reieved a life ban.

howver i do not want to go down that route. I merely used an incident when totally recless driving could have cost a human life. Is there any need for more examples?

[F1fanatic]

Quite. So you have no personal feelings against Schumi but had to drag up one incident to support your point... A few other drivers have also taken it 'a step too far' recently.. Incidentally, the Reubens incident didn't result in a crash - unlike a few others.

If you don't like him just say so - don't use excuses!

If you want to go down that route then theres a very strong case that after the "Villeneuve incident' he should have reieved a life ban.

howver i do not want to go down that route. I merely used an incident when totally recless driving could have cost a human life. Is there any need for more examples?

Thank you. Your bias is obvious resulting in your comment "I also really wish Schumacher would retire".

We all have our personal favourites and dislikes, but far better to try to keep these out of it and post something reasonable. I'm not a fan of Kimi, but will do my best to only post negatively when he has earned it this season.

And yes, I do realise that I've ignored this myself on occasions !

[nocturn]

i was going to compliment you all on the lack of petty fanboyism here thus far, then i read on.

As for Hamilton, l thought the drive was ok, but his reaction seemed to lack character. he just doesnt seem to have mental strength.

Our personal likes and dislikes are what make F1 interesting to us, why would we leave them at the door?

Edited March 22, 2012 by nocturn

[b19bry]

i was going to compliment you all on the lack of petty fanboyism here thus far, then i read on.

As for Hamilton, l thought the drive was ok, but his reaction seemed to lack character. he just doesnt seem to have mental strength.

Our personal likes and dislikes are what make F1 interesting to us, why would we leave them at the door?

Hey, well said Nocturn

I thought Hamilton's drive to third place wasn't exactly a disaster, his posture after the race seemed to tell a different story tho ?

He's now kinda put himself into a corner where there's more pressure on him to win on Sunday

Pretty interesting 2012 preview :

[rixalex]

As for Hamilton, l thought the drive was ok, but his reaction seemed to lack character. he just doesnt seem to have mental strength.

I think reading of behaviour and judging of character can depend a lot on our own personal biases.

Yesterday during practice session Vettel came on the radio and said the car was "undriveable". I imagine had Hamilton been the one saying it, we'd be hearing what an arrogant so and so he was.

And imagine the reaction had Hamilton been the one having the hissy fit with the marshal in Australia. Some people have completely ignored this behaviour of Alonso's and instead been rushing to tell us not only how happy it made them to see Hamilton displeased with third, but also how it demonstrates his bad character.

The fact is Hamilton was in the best car on that day - Button proved that - and the fact is that Hamilton was on pole. Being on pole and being in the best car, is it not surprising that a driver in those circumstances would be disappointed with third? Have to consider also that it being the first race of the season, it is quite symbolic and it is a race that serves to lay down a marker for the races to come. I think it would be more worrying, and more of a question mark on his character - his character as a racer anyway - were he happy with how he performed in that race.

Anyway, looking forward, hope for another interesting race in Malaysia and hope we see more shuffling in the pecking order.

[Mosha]

Now you may not believe this, but Sky have someone worse than Slater by all accounts. Georgie Thompson

http://news.uk.msn.com//blog/trending-blogpost.aspx?post=e477a675-690f-4054-a920-9437d2bfc49d&_nwpt=1

[b19bry]

Rixalex, you really should be a politician the way you twist 'peoples' words to suit your agenda

And imagine the reaction had Hamilton been the one having the hissy fit with the marshal in Australia. Some people have completely ignored this behaviour of Alonso's and instead been rushing to tell us not only how happy it made them to see Hamilton displeased with third, but also how it demonstrates his bad character.

Point1:

Those that have 'ignored' the 'hissy fit' that Alonso demonstrated after falling off the track backwards at racing speed understand the effects of adrenaline.

This was really a non-event, it happens at ALL levels of motor racing ALL the time. ALL drivers are prone to this. The only people that would try to make more of this incident are those with an axe to grind against against Alonso and/or those that don't understand the dynamics of sitting in a race car

Point 2:

Nobody on the previous pages of this topic has expressed the view:

'how happy it made them to see Hamilton displeased with third'

Point 3:

Nobody on the previous pages of this topic has expressed the view:

'it demonstrates his bad character'

[b19bry]

Massa is useless these days so we have no idea from him on how the car is, and Alonso's qualifying was so short lived thanks to the mistake he made - something that also, funnily enough, warranted no comment - that makes data on the Ferrari very limited. And I would actually say, judging by how fast the car went on Sunday, and even taking into account Alonso's undoubted skills at ringing the neck out of cars, it is pretty close to the top. Time will tell of course. In the meantime, i think Ferrari need to seriously consider giving Alonso a number two who is at least a little bit more worthy of the seat. Massa in a Ferrari is a waste for the sport.

OK, Massa is struggling right now, but he has won races and came very very close to beating your hero for his only championship

Yes, Alonso made a mistake.............. that's pretty easy in a poor handling car

Who do you propose to be a worthy number two to Alonso ?

[rixalex]

Point1:

Those that have 'ignored' the 'hissy fit' that Alonso demonstrated after falling off the track backwards at racing speed understand the effects of adrenaline.

This was really a non-event, it happens at ALL levels of motor racing ALL the time. ALL drivers are prone to this. The only people that would try to make more of this incident are those with an axe to grind against against Alonso and/or those that don't understand the dynamics of sitting in a race car

Whether or not you think that adrenaline explains taking anger out on a marshal - i don't - it doesn't excuse it, or make it justifiable, and the only people who would try to suggest otherwise would be people like you, who claim to not particularly support anyone one driver, but get incredibly defensive when any criticism is levelled at Alonso.

As for the condescending patronising you don't understand the dynamics type crap, that you successfully have brought to every F1 thread, it really does speak so much more about you than it does me.

Point 2:

Nobody on the previous pages of this topic has expressed the view:

'how happy it made them to see Hamilton displeased with third'

Yes you were obviously very cut up about it:

Hamilton's face on the podium and the post race interview...........priceless

Point 3:

Nobody on the previous pages of this topic has expressed the view:

'it demonstrates his bad character'

but his reaction seemed to lack character. he just doesnt seem to have mental strength.

[rixalex]

OK, Massa is struggling right now, but he has won races and came very very close to beating your hero for his only championship

He has been struggling since 2009, and even before then he was not much better than average. Plenty of average drivers have won races. And Hamilton is not my hero, he is just a driver that i enjoy watching, and there are things about him i admire... and some things i don't.

Yes, Alonso made a mistake.............. that's pretty easy in a poor handling car

Looked like it handled pretty ok in the race, although that was no doubt simply due to Alonso's sublime genious right.

Who do you propose to be a worthy number two to Alonso ?

This is the problem. Alonso and his fans are only interested in Ferrari employing a number two. Personally i'd like to see them try and fill the seat with someone who is allowed to actually make a contest of it. Not that i think there is much chance of someone getting the better of Alonso, as he is a great driver, but even great drivers need to be pushed.

[b19bry]

Yes, Alonso made a mistake.............. that's pretty easy in a poor handling car

Looked like it handled pretty ok in the race,

Err.....you must've been watching a different race, no it didn't

[b19bry]

Point1:

Those that have 'ignored' the 'hissy fit' that Alonso demonstrated after falling off the track backwards at racing speed understand the effects of adrenaline.

This was really a non-event, it happens at ALL levels of motor racing ALL the time. ALL drivers are prone to this. The only people that would try to make more of this incident are those with an axe to grind against against Alonso and/or those that don't understand the dynamics of sitting in a race car

Whether or not you think that adrenaline explains taking anger out on a marshal - i don't - it doesn't excuse it, or make it justifiable, and the only people who would try to suggest otherwise would be people like you, who claim to not particularly support anyone one driver, but get incredibly defensive when any criticism is levelled at Alonso.

I'm not incredibly defensive, but you have been raising this non-issue over and over

As for the condescending patronising you don't understand the dynamics type crap, that you successfully have brought to every F1 thread, it really does speak so much more about you than it does me.

Well that's in response to the uninformed and opinionated crap that you successfully have brought to every F1 thread, it really does speak so much more about you than it does me.

(Read Point 1 above)

[b19bry]

This is the problem. Alonso and his fans are only interested in Ferrari employing a number two. Personally i'd like to see them try and fill the seat with someone who is allowed to actually make a contest of it. Not that i think there is much chance of someone getting the better of Alonso, as he is a great driver, but even great drivers need to be pushed.

Not at all.

I don't understand why Perez is being put forward, he hasn't really shown too much form. I'd like to see someone like Ricciardo but he's with Red Bull

[rixalex]

I'm not incredibly defensive, but you have been raising this non-issue over and over

I raised it once and would have not mentioned it again were it not for an inconsistency and an unfairness that i saw in people calling into question Hamilton's character because he didn't look too happy after the race, but who made no comment whatsoever with regards Alonso's petulant outburst. Had Hamilton been the one making the error and then laying into the marshal, with Alonso qualifying in pole, you would have been straight on here celebrating Alonso's brilliance and condemning Hamilton's arrogance. You have obviously become so blinded in your opinion, you don't recognise your own blatant bias.

Well that's in response to the uninformed and opinionated crap that you successfully have brought to every F1 thread, it really does speak so much more about you than it does me.

(Read Point 1 above)

I can't decide whether being aware of and acknowledging how condescending and patronising you are being, and justifying it by the lack of knowledge you feel you have a right to judge in me, makes it better or worse. Either way, i shall try to desist from responding in future to your rudeness as i know it will only take us round in circles. I apologise to other forum members for already having done that.

[b19bry]

I'm not incredibly defensive, but you have been raising this non-issue over and over

I raised it once and would have not mentioned it again were it not for an inconsistency and an unfairness that i saw in people calling into question Hamilton's character because he didn't look too happy after the race, but who made no comment whatsoever with regards Alonso's petulant outburst. Had Hamilton been the one making the error and then laying into the marshal, with Alonso qualifying in pole, you would have been straight on here celebrating Alonso's brilliance and condemning Hamilton's arrogance. You have obviously become so blinded in your opinion, you don't recognise your own blatant bias.

BS................you have made 4 posts on this topic

Well that's in response to the uninformed and opinionated crap that you successfully have brought to every F1 thread, it really does speak so much more about you than it does me.

(Read Point 1 above)

I can't decide whether being aware of and acknowledging how condescending and patronising you are being, and justifying it by the lack of knowledge you feel you have a right to judge in me, makes it better or worse. Either way, i shall try to desist from responding in future to your rudeness as i know it will only take us round in circles. I apologise to other forum members for already having done that.

What ? Oh right as if you have the high moral ground .....right ?

Edited March 25, 2012 by b19bry

[b19bry]

Had Hamilton been the one making the error and then laying into the marshal, with Alonso qualifying in pole, you would have been straight on here celebrating Alonso's brilliance and condemning Hamilton's arrogance. You have obviously become so blinded in your opinion, you don't recognise your own blatant bias.

You really should be a politician, those are some assumptions indeed.

[rixalex]

I know not all have, or will ever, forgive Schumacher for his past misdeeds, but i for one was happy to see him up there fighting for pole, and look forward to him putting the cat amongst the pigeons this afternoon from third. It could be very interesting seeing how he and the car performs. I hope Rosberg can get up near the front too.

[b19bry]

I know not all have, or will ever, forgive Schumacher for his past misdeeds, but i for one was happy to see him up there fighting for pole, and look forward to him putting the cat amongst the pigeons this afternoon from third. It could be very interesting seeing how he and the car performs. I hope Rosberg can get up near the front too.

Correct, he is in a position to challenge at the front now, Rosberg too, let's hope team orders don't come into play.

I hope Kimi has a good afternoon

[b19bry]

I hope Kimi has a good afternoon

What am I saying..........and of course Alonso

[madjbs]

A good race in Malaysia. A fantastic performance from Perez, but a shame he made that little mistake at the end just as he had caught up to Alonso as it would have been great to see him battle for first.

[Mosha]

They should either move when the race is held, or at least the timing. I do not enjoy a; cars parading around behind the safety car and/or b; using the gid as a car park. Wet races are one thing, but a deluge is another.

[F1fanatic]

It was certainly an odd race - and we still have little idea of the true performance of the teams under normal conditions.

As far as I could see, doing well or badly depended largely on luck and/or strategy with only a small element down to the driver? (The cars' performance as a factpr goes without saying.)

I say this as, despite the conditions, few drivers wrecked their own race (only Button and Grosjean spring to mind), and nobody produced a stunning drive with lots of overtaking - apart from possibly Senna who managed to overtake a few cars.

Normally wet races provide odd results, but there is usually more overtaking involved.

Finally, after the re-start, I think the safety car stayed out to long as it seems ridiculous that cars immediately rushed into the pits to change to intermediates! I understand the safety issues, but even so....

Having said this, it was a pleasure to see Perez and Alonso do so well in cars that are definitely not expected front-runners!

Incidentally Steve Slater was really getting on my nerves this race, unlike Karun whose commentary I enjoyed.

Edited March 26, 2012 by F1fanatic

[b19bry]

A good race in Malaysia. A fantastic performance from Perez, but a shame he made that little mistake at the end just as he had caught up to Alonso as it would have been great to see him battle for first.

As you say fantastic performance from Perez, he put in the drive of his life just at the right moment.

[Mosha]

How long will Ferrari put up with Massa underperforming? An odds on him not lasting the season?