Corruption In Thailand

[silsburyhill]

And this type of attitude by foreigners and locals alike is why things will never change here unless and until people start seriously reacting to this wickedness. And corruption is wicked 9and not in the American slang term).

Don Quixote,

... you haven't quite got the hang of living here yet have you?

And this type of attitude by foreigners and locals alike is why things will never change here unless and until people start seriously reacting to this wickedness. And corruption is wicked 9and not in the American slang term).

Don Quixote,

... you haven't quite got the hang of living here yet have you?

You.Have.Absolutely,No.Idea.

[egdirb]

Corruption will prevent Thailand from ever becoming a first world developed nation thus affordable to most farangs.

So you are suggesting first world nations are not corrupt ?....your comments are rather naive.....corruption in the "first world" is just better hid thats all, where as Thailand is more blatant, thats the only difference.

Corrpution in Thailand....Captialism at its best IMHO

My comment is not naive at all. Your assumptions however are.

It is all about degrees of corruption.

Did I say there was no corruption in first world countries - no I didn't.

Indeed corruption is in every country, and in the west it is usually done secretly under the table. Whereas in Thailand is is under the table, over the table, and the table. Corruption is rampant in every level and fabric of Thai society.

[David48]

... and corruption is wicked 9and not in the American slang term).

Oh silsburyhill, you loveable lump you ... didn't we discuss this in Bible studies last week?

Edited March 18, 2012 by David48

[YipYipYa123]

Corruption, hmmmm

It was like that when I arrived and a farang sure isn't going to change it,i should not make waves since I am an alien guest in this civilization and no body would listen anyway,I would be kicked out of Thailand or murdered if I started shouting about the corruption I have seen in the last 10 years and the levels it has happened on,as famous politician Khun chuvit says EVERYONE PAYS, EVEN YOU ARE A BIG MAN IN THE ARMY, YOU DON'T PAY TO POLICE YOU IN THE MINORITY AND YOU WILL HAVE TROUBLE!

Who are any of us to get in the way when such powerful figures are involved in it(or controlling it)

[Soutpeel]

It is all about degrees of corruption.

nothing to do with degree's at all.... corruption is corruption...in a similar vein..... Steal a pen from work or steal THB 1.0 million...it still theft

[David48]

For those who don't know the parable of Don Quixote and for our noble steed silsburyhill ...

Weary of his land of USA Spain, an old soldier of the king sought solace in LOS Ariosto’s vast geographies, in that valley of the moon where misspent dream-time goes, and in the golden idol of Buddha Mohammed stolen by Montalban.

In gentle mockery of himself he conceived a credulous man who, unsettled by the marvels he read about, hit upon the idea of seeking noble deeds and enchantments in prosaic places called El Toboso or Montiel.

For both of them, for the dreamer and the dreamed, the tissue of that whole plot consisted in the contraposition of two worlds: the unreal world of the books of chivalry and the common everyday world of the twentyfirst seventeenth century.

Ref: http://thefloatingli...nd-don-quixote/

Edited March 18, 2012 by David48

[David48]

OK ... seriously now.

What power do we have to change the mindset of an entire nation?

Realistically zero.

Change maybe gradual or violent (think Egypt, Libya), but sensing the Thai Culture, gradual change, initiated and embraced by the Thais, is the only true path to lasting reform.

India is experimenting with that now with an anti-corruption movement and is trying the passive route.

True reform comes from a change in the culture itself and only the Thai's have that ability, not us who are simply (long and short term) guests in the Kingdom.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I don't think many farangs here would like a Thailand free of corruption. Have you actually stopped and thought what that would mean?

[IanForbes]

Explaining this with some people is like trying to push water up hill with a broom. A farang has absolutely no effect on anything previously set up by those in power in Thailand... and never will. Accept it of move. Rights and honesty have absolutely nothing to do with it. Corruption is an entrenched system in Thailand and always will be. I'm somewhat in the camp with Naam. Just use the corruption to your own advantage and quit trying to fight the system. It actually DOES work.

I live in Canada for half the year and we pay more for our system than Thailand does for theirs. You can't bribe a cop in Canada for a simple traffic infraction, even one that neither injured anyone or caused any damage, And, you'll still get hit with a fine for the traffic violation and another for a bribing offence. But, Canada pays a lot in taxes to hire all the thugs in uniforms wearing badges and guns. The judges and lawyers get paid high salaries to rotate all the criminals through the system and back onto the streets again.

[innerspace]

Eliminating corruption is not going to happen anytime soon. Its ingrained in society.

But avoiding it is perfectly possible most of the time, you just need to stick to the laws.

You can open and run a business, get a visa, work permit, driving license, drive a car/motorbike etc without giving in to corruption.

But when you lack some paperwork or have been doing something a little wrong corruption just makes things easier.

[Soutpeel]

But when you lack some paperwork or have been doing something a little wrong corruption just makes things easier.

I do believe you have found the answer to this question.....Its the Farang's fault, if foreigners filled in the paperwork correctly then the Thai's would not be tempted into the cesspool of corruption ergo...no foreigners in Thailand...no corruption problem solved...well done old chap

[NewlyMintedThai]

But when you lack some paperwork or have been doing something a little wrong corruption just makes things easier.

I do believe you have found the answer to this question.....Its the Farang's fault, if foreigners filled in the paperwork correctly then the Thai's would not be tempted into the cesspool of corruption ergo...no foreigners in Thailand...no corruption problem solved...well done old chap

Has nothing to do with farang/Thai, so why try to make it into a racial issue?

[Soutpeel]

You can't bribe a cop in Canada for a simple traffic infraction,

But I will bet some Canadian politians are partial to the ocassional bung, for "services rendered"

[Soutpeel]

But when you lack some paperwork or have been doing something a little wrong corruption just makes things easier.

I do believe you have found the answer to this question.....Its the Farang's fault, if foreigners filled in the paperwork correctly then the Thai's would not be tempted into the cesspool of corruption ergo...no foreigners in Thailand...no corruption problem solved...well done old chap

Has nothing to do with farang/Thai, so why try to make it into a racial issue?

Oh dear...has Mr sense of humour left the building for the day ?

[NewlyMintedThai]

But when you lack some paperwork or have been doing something a little wrong corruption just makes things easier.

I do believe you have found the answer to this question.....Its the Farang's fault, if foreigners filled in the paperwork correctly then the Thai's would not be tempted into the cesspool of corruption ergo...no foreigners in Thailand...no corruption problem solved...well done old chap

Has nothing to do with farang/Thai, so why try to make it into a racial issue?

Oh dear...has Mr sense of humour left the building for the day ?

It wasn't funny, if that was your intent...

[chrisinth]

@wildorchid, can you give me a definition of what is corruption in Thailand? It is not a dictionary definition that I am after, but more what you consider corruption and convenience. This to me is very important before your question can be addressed, because by the very wording “Can anyone tell me how we can stop corruption in thailand?” there is no answer.

Where life and safety are at the fore, and people step away from their actions, whether it be taking someone’s life in a car accident or being responsible for unsafe building practice, by being able to buy their way out of that situation, then, to me anyway, that is totally wrong. People should be accountable for their actions.

If it is a case of making paperwork stream faster, I would call that a convenience.

If it is a case of avoiding paperwork, as in the case of say speeding, I would also consider that as a convenience.

If money is being paid for a night venue to remain open, for your convenience, that answers itself.

What we, as guests of this country have to understand, is that this is and always has been a part of Thailand, and all other Asian countries. If you think that corruption doesn’t happen in the “Western world” then you would be sadly mistaken. It likely happens more but at a level that we don’t see. No progressing government can exist without corruption!

It is not an ideal world. This subject, IMHO, is part of the process of accepting what is different from your native country and culture. Along the lines of accepting that not everything a bargirl tells you is the truth and that Kratoeys are actually blokes.

We as guests cannot change what is; accept and adapt, or fight it for your own individual case.

[StreetCowboy]

"Where life and safety are to the fore" - like speeding tickets, drink driving, wearing a helmet, unlicensed entertainment venues, taking shortcuts on construction standards, maintaining paperwork of people passing through borders...

SC

[ttthailand]

Good for the rich bad for the poor.....so it will never end.

Just got to go with it and enjoy life...

Don't worry about something you have no power to change.

[Heimdallr]

No one has exact figures but according to some research a hefty 20-30% of the money put in public projects is wasted on corruption. It's shocking how little the tax payers care. To those people I want to say, do you really want to fund the lifestyle of Chalerm (with his pink Bentley) and alike with your hard earned baht? Just because they were born in the right family, they are entitled to part of your salary to fund their 5th car?

There's nothing we can do but to hope there are some honest people out there that have similar thoughts, are Thai, AND determined to change this rotten culture of corruption.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Good for the rich bad for the poor.....so it will never end.

That's a little simplistic.

It's good for the poor when they can get out of a 500 baht traffic ticket when palming the officer 100 baht.

It's good for the poor when politicians shower them with money to insure their vote.

In reality, both the rich and the poor benefit some times, and lose out some times. It's the system, though, and we can argue about it as much as we want but nothing will change because of it. I kind of like Thailand the way it is. Can you imagine how things would change without corruption? Say goodbye to buying a copy of the latest movie on the street and Viagra at your neighborhood pharmacy. Say goodbye to any skin showing at bars, to smoking in bars (if you like that -- I don't), to any place staying open after hours or openly offering the companionship of young lovelies. Be prepared to have your license confiscated until you fetch it from the police station. And, heaven forbid, if you do something wrong and get in trouble with the law, say goodbye to the chance to buy your way out of it and say hello to the Bangkok Hilton.

[mackes]

If the definition of corruption is to receive money or services to ignore or allow people to

break or circumvent a law one was set to guard there is no shades of corruption,

either an official ignore to enforce a rule or law or he do not, if payed for it is a crime. Digital.

There is actually two crimes in the scene, one committing a violation of the law and one allowing it to happen. Both are crimes.

I can't believe how many people state that "we can not change" or "thats the way it always been". Civilization of the world is a process

that is slowly maturing and changing peoples behavior. Of course we can enforce a change made by the Thai people. But it will take time,

looong time! How do you eat an elephant? Start with a small piece!

Let's not go backwards, or we might end up with slavery again. Sounds like that would be OK for some of you...

[chrisinth]

"Where life and safety are to the fore" - like speeding tickets, drink driving, wearing a helmet, unlicensed entertainment venues, taking shortcuts on construction standards, maintaining paperwork of people passing through borders...

SC

True what you say SC, I covered some of your points in that paragraph. What my point in the post was, was how I see it; lists can be endless.

[StreetCowboy]

"Where life and safety are to the fore" - like speeding tickets, drink driving, wearing a helmet, unlicensed entertainment venues, taking shortcuts on construction standards, maintaining paperwork of people passing through borders...

SC

True what you say SC, I covered some of your points in that paragraph. What my point in the post was, was how I see it; lists can be endless.

But my point was that every 'convenience' compromises safety somewhere. There are many laws here that, perhaps, I am grateful are not enforced; but the culture of lawlessness which that engenders, the money that pours into the hands of the dishonest, the corrupt, and the criminal, hold back the development of Thai society.

Fortunately for us, but perhaps unfortunate for the Thais - particularly those that might benefit from 15% more major projects; that might benefit from government investment that was planned to provide benefits to the people, rather than to people in government. Perhaps if people had to spend more on traffic tickets they would spend less amputating limbs and sweeping brains off the roads.

SC

[wana]

I can't believe how many people state that "we can not change" or "thats the way it always been". Civilization of the world is a process

that is slowly maturing and changing peoples behavior. Of course we can enforce a change made by the Thai people.

Firstly ,you cant "enforce" anything ,you are a guest ,perhaps even an unwanted one

its unclear how many thais think farangs should drink beer and shag young girls Retire here but probably most would vote against it if they are not working in a touristy kind of place or getting some profit from it

we also would be quickly stepped on like the roaches we are in the bigger picture if we tried to put an end to corruption in thailand

the very idea that a farang could take money out of the pockets of chiefs of police and government would simply not be tolerated by thais system ,it would just ensure the farang was removed /deported ./fed to crocodiles etc ASAP

the scheming ways go right to the top ,billions gets siphoned out of every major government project and work is always given to contractors who can pay a healthy backhander to a minister

thats just the way the wheels turn ,dont hate the player ,hate the game

[MAJIC]

An accepted practice throughout an entire population will never change,

only the amount invidividuals can command,by their status.

[GuestHouse]

I find it sickening that people here defend corruption in Thailand, passing it off as the easy way out of a traffic offence, cheap payments to facilitate business and a general 'oiling of the wheels' that makes their personal life easier.

But is it also the means by which Thai people are robbed of their homes, land, savings, the means by which ordinary Thai people are f'cked over on a daily basis, the reason schools wind up with no books, funds allocated to public medicine wind up being used to buy ingredients for the narcotics industry, why people get murdered for being in the way and and why murderers don't get charged or convicted because they pay.

That those defending corruption are also prominent amongst the members of TV who are so often stating how much they love Thailand, how much they love the Thai people is doubly sickening.

Quite clearly they don't give a sh1t about the real impacts of corruption and the real impact it has on the lives of real Thai people, so long as Jack is OK.

Nice.

Edited March 18, 2012 by GuestHouse

[wana]

it starts in the schools (fee paying schools) ,the new foreign teachers are told the children must pass (the thai teachers know it already )

no ifs ,and or buts

their parents are paying money for them to pass and no parent will tolerate a teacher saying their child is a failure at anything

(its a loss of face )

at every level in life after that ,it continues ,you dont have to try and be succesful ,you have to pay the person who decides who gets successful or not

all the major jobs im told are gifted to the chosen who have wealthy or powerful dads or who can pay 100k backhander to get a job in a police station on the outskirts of pattaya or the customs office or any other desirable place to work

these people get richer and advance rapidly and soon they are paying someone to make sure their own kid gets a degree or qualification or job and taki9ng bribes by themselves to secure positions of their juniors

the average cop handles more 100 thb notes in a day than the average cashier in a department store ,why would these people want anything to change ?

[NewlyMintedThai]

I find it sickening that people here defend corruption in Thailand, passing it off as the easy way out of a traffic offence, cheap payments to facilitate business and a general 'oiling of the wheels' that makes their personal life easier.

But is it also the means by which Thai people are robbed of their homes, land, savings, the means by which ordinary Thai people are f'cked over on a daily basis, the reason schools wind up with no books, funds allocated to public medicine wind up being used to buy ingredients for the narcotics industry, why people get murdered for being in the way and and why murderers don't get charged or convicted because they pay.

That those defending corruption are also prominent amongst the members of TV who are so often stating how much they love Thailand, how much they love the Thai people is doubly sickening.

Quite clearly they don't give a sh1t about the real impacts of corruption and the real impact it has on the lives of real Thai people, so long as Jack is OK.

Nice.

Never paid off a traffic cop, then, matey?

[GuestHouse]

Never paid off a traffic cop, then, matey?

No never - I've had Thai driver's license for nearly 20 years. If I get stopped I hand it over. Almost always its returned and if it is not I let the wheels turn via the police station.

Thinks to self, when was the last time I was even stopped by a cop in Thailand - not in the past five years.

Edit.

As a point of note.

If I paid a cop of while driving a company car, or while on company business ( mute point I might be considered to be on company business all the while I am in Thailand) I would be committing a crime under the foreign corrupt practices act and in direct breach of corporate policy.

The upshot of that is, time off work to go through follow the legal procedure is a given.

I get paid very well to be here, why would I risk that for the inconvenience of paying fines at the police station when in actuality I almost never ever get a traffic fine?

Edited March 18, 2012 by GuestHouse

[mackes]

I can't believe how many people state that "we can not change" or "thats the way it always been". Civilization of the world is a process

that is slowly maturing and changing peoples behavior. Of course we can enforce a change made by the Thai people.

Firstly ,you cant "enforce" anything ,you are a guest ,perhaps even an unwanted one

its unclear how many thais think farangs should drink beer and shag young girls Retire here but probably most would vote against it if they are not working in a touristy kind of place or getting some profit from it

we also would be quickly stepped on like the roaches we are in the bigger picture if we tried to put an end to corruption in thailand

the very idea that a farang could take money out of the pockets of chiefs of police and government would simply not be tolerated by thais system ,it would just ensure the farang was removed /deported ./fed to crocodiles etc ASAP

the scheming ways go right to the top ,billions gets siphoned out of every major government project and work is always given to contractors who can pay a healthy backhander to a minister

thats just the way the wheels turn ,dont hate the player ,hate the game

Sorry for my bad english, the word I wanted to use was not "enforced" but "affect", that's makes a difference.

I did not mean that we (immigrants) should go out as a group and complain on the system. What I ment was that we as individuals can refuse to pay brines and write when we have a chance express out opinion against this system. Believe it or not, a lot of Thais look up to westernes and listen to what we have to say (if a logical and sober opinion)

Bad things are not impossible to change and it is individuals who make the change.