Yingluck Gets By With A Little Help

[phiphidon]

Could you give us an example of one of the occasions where he was unable to answer a question and you knew this was because his team had not prepped him?

.

Yes, one example:

In the infamous press conference after the 2010 crackdown he was asked why the prachatai website was still blocked, and he answered that he thought it was open already, looked around quite astonished to Panitan, the acting government spokesman, and to Kasit, the Foreign Minister. One of them, i think it was Panitan, answered instead.

Thank you, but he seems he answered that question. Anyway, if his answer to the question was incorrect, how is it that you know his incorrect answer was due to his team not prepping him or is that just a conjectural assessment?

I presume it was incorrect then at the time as I note that months and months into Yingluck's government, it remains blocked.

.

Interesting question. I wanted to check Prachatai, but the government has it blocked

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If you read at the time you would have found that I answered rubl with the pratachai3 site. You must wear braces to keep your trousers up with all the wriggling you do. Sheesh.

[Buchholz]

Yes, one example:

In the infamous press conference after the 2010 crackdown he was asked why the prachatai website was still blocked, and he answered that he thought it was open already, looked around quite astonished to Panitan, the acting government spokesman, and to Kasit, the Foreign Minister. One of them, i think it was Panitan, answered instead.

Thank you, but he seems he answered that question. Anyway, if his answer to the question was incorrect, how is it that you know his incorrect answer was due to his team not prepping him or is that just a conjectural assessment?

I presume it was incorrect then at the time as I note that months and months into Yingluck's government, it remains blocked.

.

Interesting question. I wanted to check Prachatai, but the government has it blocked

If you read at the time you would have found that I answered rubl with the pratachai3 site.

< inflammatory comments snipped >

prachatai remains blocked. That's what was posted.

If you have an alternative website, that's wonderful... but it doesn't change that prachatai is blocked as a factual statement.

.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[CalgaryII]

Can Angela Merkel of Germany speak English?

It is my experience that Germany doesn't have a similar educational emphasis on teaching English, as compared for example, to the Dutch.

Does this apply to Merkel?

[phiphidon]

prachatai remains blocked. That's what was posted.

If you have an alternative website, that's wonderful... but it doesn't change that prachatai is blocked as a factual statement.

.

I can wriggle with the best of them. Prachatai isn't a website but is a generic name - So when googling prachatai you get

So under the "class" of prachatai you get www.pratchatai.com which is blocked and www.pratchatai3.info/english/ which isn't. Now that is a factual statement.

Edited March 26, 2012 by phiphidon

[Buchholz]

prachatai remains blocked. That's what was posted.

If you have an alternative website, that's wonderful... but it doesn't change that pratchatai is blocked as a factual statement.

So under the "class" of prachatai you get www.pratchatai.com which is blocked

Yes, I can amend my above post to :

www.pratchatai.com remains blocked.

If you have an alternative website, that's wonderful... but it doesn't change that www.pratchatai.com is blocked as a factual statement.

Wonderful. Are we done here now with this or is there more?

.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[rubl]

[

"All the sinothais I have met working in family businesses have spoken very good english" Then all I can say is you are either very lucky or have been here so long you understand Thailish. Now if we were in Hong Kong or Sing or Malaysia I would agree with you, but not in Thailand. Even Abhisit in spite of his childhood has a distinct Thai accent.

If I may add the same holds true for bigwigs at the MOH. Some of these people received advanced education in the UK, Australia and USA and yet, their English accents are very strong. They stll manage to deliver healthcare services to Thailand in some difficult circumstances.

In respect to MP Abhisit, listen to him when he is under pressure, his Thai accent gets stronger as he is under stress. The classic interview was the BBC one where he went from his Eton tonality to midlevel manager fluster in minutes as the questions became more pointed. Mind you, Abhisit's English skills are still superior to my Thai LOL.

Not really surprised to hear this, the Thai accent in k. Abhisit's English that is. Mind you, our dear member monkfish insisted on calling him something like a Native English speaker

[hyperdimension]

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough

She has certainly had plenty of practise in deflecting critical questions ("I don't know anything about it"; "someone else is looking into it"; or simply walk away)... but not enough in tackling them head on.

and has disarmed many with her charm.

The problem is the lack of substance behind the charm. Her brother at least had substance... but it's a toxic substance.

Edited March 26, 2012 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

Why doesn't Pravit Rojanaphruk talk about the content of the presentation? The PM's ability to speak English seems to be so much more fun for him instead of discussing something of substance.

Probably because the event contained nothing of substance.

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as per forum rule #2.

[tlansford]

Why doesn't Pravit Rojanaphruk talk about the content of the presentation? The PM's ability to speak English seems to be so much more fun for him instead of discussing something of substance.

Probably because the event contained nothing of substance.

That would be very hard to know based on this article...

[rubl]

Why doesn't Pravit Rojanaphruk talk about the content of the presentation? The PM's ability to speak English seems to be so much more fun for him instead of discussing something of substance.

Probably because the event contained nothing of substance.

That would be very hard to know based on this article...

Some posters here keep telling me about the drivel from theNation. Do you need more?

[nicknostitz]

Probably because the event contained nothing of substance.

What do you expect?!

Of course this event did not contain much substance.

These sort of events never do, and are not supposed to.

When Abhisit was guestspeaker his speeches contained no substance either, and he deflected critical questions very professionally as well.

No substance makes such an event a success for everybody, and everybody can feel good. Even the dinner was not that bad either this year.

If you want substance from a prime minister - you may, if you are lucky, get some in the brief off the record chat after an interview. Prime Ministers are always guarded by whole teams that make sure that nothing slips out of a Prime Ministers mouth that cannot be reinterpreted, denied, or obfuscated later on.

You may be more lucky with ex-Prime Ministers. They tend to loosen up a bit.

[philw]

Why doesn't Pravit Rojanaphruk talk about the content of the presentation? The PM's ability to speak English seems to be so much more fun for him instead of discussing something of substance.

Probably because the event contained nothing of substance.

That would be very hard to know based on this article...

Some posters here keep telling me about the drivel from theNation. Do you need more?

yes, please, keep going.

[vijer]

"Thank you for help me to translate."

Kentucky State University ( Masters )

And your masters is from?

And your fluency in Thai is?

The PM's command of the English language is still better than other important foreign leaders such as Putin of Russia, and Merkel of Germany. And the President of the USA speaks how many foreign languages?

BTW, how many expat managing directors ent over to manage the local company units actually speak Thai? One would think that such people living and working in Thailand would be fluent.

Criticism of the PM's English language skills is petty and usually made by insecure people.

And why would anybody want to speak Thai.. English is the language of the financial world, the language of international business, and also the main on-line language, go across the border to poor repressed Burma, and anyone with even a formal education speaks pretty damned good English.. go curl up with your red shirt wife and dog and give us all a break... Speak Thai ...haha... might as well speak Martian... khrup..

Actually I don't give a crap how good her English is, but Bakseedaa is correct, English is the international language of business and finance. The common language of ASEAN is English, not Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, Malay, Mandarin, Tamil, Lao, etc. And unless she received her masters degree from an ONLINE university I would expect her English to be very good indeed.

[vijer]

Ok, she's an attractive woman and speaks ok English. That's the dessert, where's the main course?

That she inherited a country in the midst of a world economic crisis, on the verge of war with Cambodia and at the time of the worst flooding experienced in Thailand in more than a century. Seems that she has held up rather well as the war was prevented, the nation cared for during the floods, and she has managed to deliver benefits to the poor in a world where other countries are reducing benefits.

Yes and Thailand hasn't been in an economic crisis in 15 years so the rest of the worlds problems have little effect on Thailand so not an issue for her. What verge of war with Cambodia? Some contrived bullshit over who owned some land on the border. Ya there were floods, can't say she or her government did anything very effective about it. Benefits to the poor ... benefits to the poor ... hmm benefits to the poor ... oh ya that's right she and her brother are trying to get the poor red shirt protesters, who destroyed part of Bangkok, tarnished the international image of Thailand and disrupted the functioning of the city, paid for their suffering. Yep you got us on that one.

I agree though, who cares how good her English is.

[anterian]

"Thank you for help me to translate."

Kentucky State University ( Masters )

And your masters is from?

And your fluency in Thai is?

The PM's command of the English language is still better than other important foreign leaders such as Putin of Russia, and Merkel of Germany. And the President of the USA speaks how many foreign languages?

BTW, how many expat managing directors ent over to manage the local company units actually speak Thai? One would think that such people living and working in Thailand would be fluent.

Criticism of the PM's English language skills is petty and usually made by insecure people.

And why would anybody want to speak Thai.. English is the language of the financial world, the language of international business, and also the main on-line language, go across the border to poor repressed Burma, and anyone with even a formal education speaks pretty damned good English.. go curl up with your red shirt wife and dog and give us all a break... Speak Thai ...haha... might as well speak Martian... khrup..

Actually I don't give a crap how good her English is, but Bakseedaa is correct, English is the international language of business and finance. The common language of ASEAN is English, not Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, Malay, Mandarin, Tamil, Lao, etc. And unless she received her masters degree from an ONLINE university I would expect her English to be very good indeed.

Whilst English is the international language, it has many variations. For example when I visit my Indian friends they write excellent English but I takes me several days before I can understand their spoken accent. Filipinos have the same problem with me, they have difficulty understanding my English home counties accent. Perhaps with ASEAN we may see a convergence over time of these regional variations.

[Buchholz]

Shawn Crispin, a former Far Eastern Economic Review correspondent now with yellow-shirt-leader Sondhi Limthongkul's Asia Times Online, asked Yingluck if she and her older brother, the ousted fugitive former premier Thaksin, were playing a double game, in which Yingluck presents a smiling face to the public while Thaksin works behind the scenes to undermine his rivals and the judiciary in an effort to gain an amnesty.

"Sorry I don't understand the double game [allegation] because I never play games," Yingluck replied, winning applause.

As usual insightful questions from Crispin. No surprise a lame deflection gets applause from the crowd though

Nick Nostitz, a German photographer and red-shirt sympathiser, wasn't fussed. He felt people who obsessed about Yingluck's level of English were like "fascists".

lol. And 'sympathizer' is one way of putting it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt3UladOiXM

Crispin's questions were valid and stinging.

As you say, the response to her sheepish giggle and feigned confusion eliciting a applause reflects the caliber of attendees other than Crispin.

.

[Siam Simon]

Shawn Crispin, a former Far Eastern Economic Review correspondent now with yellow-shirt-leader Sondhi Limthongkul's Asia Times Online, asked Yingluck if she and her older brother, the ousted fugitive former premier Thaksin, were playing a double game, in which Yingluck presents a smiling face to the public while Thaksin works behind the scenes to undermine his rivals and the judiciary in an effort to gain an amnesty.

"Sorry I don't understand the double game [allegation] because I never play games," Yingluck replied, winning applause.

As usual insightful questions from Crispin. No surprise a lame deflection gets applause from the crowd though

Nick Nostitz, a German photographer and red-shirt sympathiser, wasn't fussed. He felt people who obsessed about Yingluck's level of English were like "fascists".

lol. And 'sympathizer' is one way of putting it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt3UladOiXM

Crispin's questions were valid and stinging.

As you say, the response to her sheepish giggle and feigned confusion eliciting a applause reflects the caliber of attendees other than Crispin.

.

Oh yes, Crispin is very high calibre, with his finger firmly on Thailand's pulse, as can be seen in this YouTube video:

Right on the money there, Shaun. We heard it from you first .

[Buchholz]

As usual insightful questions from Crispin. No surprise a lame deflection gets applause from the crowd though

Nick Nostitz, a German photographer and red-shirt sympathiser, wasn't fussed. He felt people who obsessed about Yingluck's level of English were like "fascists".

lol. And 'sympathizer' is one way of putting it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt3UladOiXM

Crispin's questions were valid and stinging.

As you say, the response to her sheepish giggle and feigned confusion eliciting a applause reflects the caliber of attendees other than Crispin.

Oh yes, Crispin is very high calibre, with his finger firmly on Thailand's pulse, as can be seen in this YouTube video:

Prognosticating the future is certainly an extremely tricky thing here in Thailand. He's absolutely not alone in that regard.

Anyway, do you have any on-topic response to the questions he asked of Yingluck or her dodging response?

.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Buchholz

[Siam Simon]

Prognosticating the future is certainly an extremely tricky thing here in Thailand. He's absolutely not alone in that regard.

Anyway, do you have any on-topic response to the questions he asked of Yingluck or her dodging response?

.

Her response was a typical Thai politician one, of the type that Abhisit routinely makes in his own media interactions: Saying something without actually saying anything of any real meaning. It would be nice to have politicians who are blunt and to-the-point, but across the board they aint like that (though Korn's not too bad).

As for Crispin, as the video I linked shows, he does far more that prognosticate: He makes a cocky, 100 percent confident assertion which is wildly wrong. The man's full of himself and the old S H one T imo.

[Buchholz]

Prognosticating the future is certainly an extremely tricky thing here in Thailand. He's absolutely not alone in that regard.

Anyway, do you have any on-topic response to the questions he asked of Yingluck or her dodging response?

Her response was a typical Thai politician one, of the type that Abhisit routinely makes in his own media interactions: Saying something without actually saying anything of any real meaning. It would be nice to have politicians who are blunt and to-the-point, but across the board they aint like that (though Korn's not too bad).

Thank you for the on-topic reply. IMO Yingluck's non-answer ramblings far exceed other predecessors including Samak.

While presenting a polar opposite presence to Samak, they both came to similar sort of non-answers, but did so in two quite divergent manners.

.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Buchholz

[OzMick]

Prognosticating the future is certainly an extremely tricky thing here in Thailand. He's absolutely not alone in that regard.

Anyway, do you have any on-topic response to the questions he asked of Yingluck or her dodging response?

.

Her response was a typical Thai politician one, of the type that Abhisit routinely makes in his own media interactions: Saying something without actually saying anything of any real meaning. It would be nice to have politicians who are blunt and to-the-point, but across the board they aint like that (though Korn's not too bad).

As for Crispin, as the video I linked shows, he does far more that prognosticate: He makes a cocky, 100 percent confident assertion which is wildly wrong. The man's full of himself and the old S H one T imo.

It is typical of almost every response she has made. The only definitive statements she has made concern her brother, and universally recognised as transparent lies. Starting with "Yes your honour, I bought those shares."

[thanchart]

"Thank you for help me to translate."

Kentucky State University ( Masters )

And your masters is from?

And your fluency in Thai is?

The PM's command of the English language is still better than other important foreign leaders such as Putin of Russia, and Merkel of Germany. And the President of the USA speaks how many foreign languages?

BTW, how many expat managing directors ent over to manage the local company units actually speak Thai? One would think that such people living and working in Thailand would be fluent.

Criticism of the PM's English language skills is petty and usually made by insecure people.

And why would anybody want to speak Thai.. English is the language of the financial world, the language of international business, and also the main on-line language, go across the border to poor repressed Burma, and anyone with even a formal education speaks pretty damned good English.. go curl up with your red shirt wife and dog and give us all a break... Speak Thai ...haha... might as well speak Martian... khrup..

I wonder how many languages/dialects do you know? You are in a country whose native language is not English and you expect them to speak as if they had been raised with this language? English may be my 1st language but I want to be part of the community I now live in and therefore I am learning to speak/read/write in Thai, over and above my English, like I had done with Tagalog when I lived in the Phiippines. At home I speak a mixture of English, Tagalog and even a few words of Thai to teach my kids who just arrived. I WANT them to learn Thai and be able to read and write too, so that they too can be part of the commnity.

If you want to live here and expect the Thais to speak yr lanaguage as well as you do, sorry you will be disappointed. How many countries in Europe have you been to? Not all of them speak good English, despite being exposed since they were born.

Question is rather than just complaining and throwing brickbats, what can you do to help their learning process? You too have a responsibilty to the comunity in which you live, or you think u are a class above them?

For me, I make the effort to encourage Thais to speak English, but without putting them down or making them feel shy their spoken English is bad. I try to get them to realize is the ability to communicate that matters, not being able to speak perfectly. And I've done that with the counterfirls at the Supermarket, the lady who owns the palor my wife visits, the taxi-drivers I met, and many I met on the streets. It has been a rewarding experience to see some letting go of their shyness and try.

Yes, we can all do our part to contribute, not just sit back and bitch about nhy things are not the way we expect them to be. Doing so (the bitching part) makes you part of the problem. Would you rather not be part of the solution?

BTW, I speak English (my 1st language - and No, I am not a Caucasian), Mandarin/ Chinese (my 2nd language), Tagalog/Filipino, Thai, Malay/Indonesian, and the Chinese dialects - Fujian.Hokkien, Cantonese/HongKong, Teochew, some Hainanese. But forgotten all my Japanese. Still learning because being able to converse with locals where I go, in their language/dialect is a joy.

[FOODLOVER]

The point that i was trying to make was that someone in her position should speak Thai if she cant speak English in a way to properly convey her ideas and thoughts. It is what she knows. She is not the shop owner down the street that your are trying to coax out of her shell to try English, she is the pm of Thailand with a masters degree from KSU. If she uses her poor understanding of the English language to deflect her answers to her minions it is truly a farce that is being used to further baffle her audience with vast amounts of nothingness. The poor pitiful me i am trying only goes so far. What is the problem with her speaking Thai? Seems the Yingluck pity wagon came in full force so her plan has worked. Now that this little issue of her not being able to put words together in English has gotten the Yingluck supporters upset, what about the real issues of hundreds dead because of her incompetence due to her actions or lack there of with the flooding situation? Try defending her policies not her lack of English skills. Oh thats right, probably cant. Off to get my own slippers.

[Buchholz]

prachatai remains blocked. That's what was posted.

If you have an alternative website, that's wonderful... but it doesn't change that pratchatai is blocked as a factual statement.

So under the "class" of prachatai you get www.pratchatai.com which is blocked

Yes, I can amend my above post to :

www.pratchatai.com remains blocked.

If you have an alternative website, that's wonderful... but it doesn't change that www.pratchatai.com is blocked as a factual statement.

In addition to www.pratchatai.com being blocked, I note another famous Thailand website as a tremendous source of information on a wide array of subjects is now also blocked.

[TAWP]

Yes, the number of websites blocked has grown again recently.

[Buchholz]

Ironically enough, I discovered the blocking when seeking some specifics, from this treasure trove of information, on these two google results:

Website Censorship in Thailand – 2002-2007 | 2Bangkok.com

Website Censorship in Thailand – 2008-2011 | 2Bangkok.com

Well done to Chalerm's Internet Censorship War Room. It's working well.

.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Buchholz

[Skywalker69]

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough

She has certainly had plenty of practise in deflecting critical questions ("I don't know anything about it"; "someone else is looking into it"; or simply walk away)... but not enough in tackling them head on.

and has disarmed many with her charm.

The problem is the lack of substance behind the charm. Her brother at least had substance... but it's a toxic substance.

100% agreed. She also deflicting Parlament, why? IMO she can´t take a political debate.

[yoshiwara]

I see good old Nick is in there batting away................in the normal role of unbiased journalist.

I actually used the term "language fascists" when i had a chat with Pravit over these ridiculous attacks regarding Yingluck's English.

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's. I can't see what her English language abilities have to do with her capabilities as Prime Minister, and if you believe that stating this is "biased", than i just can't help you.

Personally i find attacks regarding her English language abilities extremely bad mannered.

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough, and has disarmed many with her charm. Some questions, such as the one asked in a heavy Irish accent, were indeed quite difficult to understand, and others were so convoluted that i also wondered what the heck these people were asking, or if they just enjoyed hearing themselves speak.

Many were quite suprised that Yingluck pulled the event of that well. My view is that many people underestimate her. I have followed her quite closely during the election campaign (as i followed Abhisit), and thought her far more capable than public opinion, and didn't really expect any less of her. Yingluck is not a great public speaker (to which she quite freely admits to), but is very eloquent and knowledgable in a more private setting. Abhisit is a brilliant public speaker and it takes a lot of mental preparation to find a question that unsettles Abhisit. Abhisit though, when he was Prime Minister, was in a more private setting far more guarded and uptight (with occasional burst of Engish humor and sarcasm), while Yingluck is extremely charming, far more open, and quite self-depreciating.

On both sides of the political divide there are politicians that are likable, and politicians that are everything else than. On a personal level - both Yingluck and Abhisit belong to the former. The latter i will not name here.

I actually used the term "language fascists"

Typifies a generally shallow analysis.

Edited April 1, 2012 by yoshiwara

[Siam Simon]

I see good old Nick is in there batting away................in the normal role of unbiased journalist.

I actually used the term "language fascists" when i had a chat with Pravit over these ridiculous attacks regarding Yingluck's English.

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's. I can't see what her English language abilities have to do with her capabilities as Prime Minister, and if you believe that stating this is "biased", than i just can't help you.

Personally i find attacks regarding her English language abilities extremely bad mannered.

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough, and has disarmed many with her charm. Some questions, such as the one asked in a heavy Irish accent, were indeed quite difficult to understand, and others were so convoluted that i also wondered what the heck these people were asking, or if they just enjoyed hearing themselves speak.

Many were quite suprised that Yingluck pulled the event of that well. My view is that many people underestimate her. I have followed her quite closely during the election campaign (as i followed Abhisit), and thought her far more capable than public opinion, and didn't really expect any less of her. Yingluck is not a great public speaker (to which she quite freely admits to), but is very eloquent and knowledgable in a more private setting. Abhisit is a brilliant public speaker and it takes a lot of mental preparation to find a question that unsettles Abhisit. Abhisit though, when he was Prime Minister, was in a more private setting far more guarded and uptight (with occasional burst of Engish humor and sarcasm), while Yingluck is extremely charming, far more open, and quite self-depreciating.

On both sides of the political divide there are politicians that are likable, and politicians that are everything else than. On a personal level - both Yingluck and Abhisit belong to the former. The latter i will not name here.

I actually used the term "language fascists"

Typifies a generally shallow analysis.

There is only one member of this forum (nicknostitz) who has extensive first-hand witness and research evidence of what went on during the 2010 troubles, and his evidence and hard facts mostly contradict the opinions of forum ranters such as the one quoted. nicknostitz has repeatedly asked the forum for any new witness/hard evidence in order to expand his own knowledge. So far, his forum critics have come up with jack sh!t on that crucial aspect, and instead concentrate on tying him down with infantile character assassination attempts on him. If you guys really wanted to get to the bottom of what went on in the streets in the 2010 troubles, you would be tapping nicknostz up for his knowledge instead of trying to drive him away from the forum.