Trip Report For Phnom Penh, Cambodia

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

News items in the News section today re another bird flu death in Cambodia...

Six-year-old Cambodian girl dies from bird flu

2012-04-03 07:53:41 GMT+7 (ICT)

PHNOM PENH, CAMBODIA (BNO NEWS) -- A six-year-old girl died from bird flu in central Cambodia late last week, the country's health ministry and the World Health Organization (WHO) confirmed on Monday. It is the second bird flu death in the country so far this year.

The Cambodian Health Ministry said 6-year-old Noy Makara of the Kampong Tralach district in Kampong Chhnang province had fallen ill on March 22 after eating the meat of a sick chicken. Her family initially attempted to treat her with medicine and injections, but the girl's condition continued to worsen.

"She did not get better and her family sent her for treatment at the Kuntha Bopha hospital on March 28," Morm Malay, deputy director of the provincial health department, told the Phnom Penh Post. He said the victim died on Friday, and hospital tests confirmed she had contracted the H5N1 strain of avian influenza.

Friday's bird flu fatality is the second in Cambodia so far this year, following the death of a 2-year-old boy in northwestern Banteay Meanchey province in early January. The latest death is the first ever confirmed case of H5N1 influenza in Kampong Chhnang province.

MORE...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's another similar past news report from The Phnom Penh Post re counterfeit alcohol...

Whiskey and wine in Phnom Penh I can understand. But a serious doubt there's much of a counterfeit market for cranberry flavored vodka or tequila... If the Cambodians are going to do such things, whiskey and wine seem far more likely targets.

Fake liquor makers charged

Monday, 24 January 2011

A French-Cambodian national and his three Cambodian co-workers were charged at Phnom Penh Municipal court today for producing and distributing counterfeit alcohol, said Ky Punnara, Phnom Penh Municipal court prosecutor yesterday.

“We detained them for breaking the Copyright law, according to which they will face a prison sentence between one and five years,” said Long Sreng, chief of Cambodia’s economic police yesterday.

Cambodian police seized more than 200 bottles of fake whiskey and French wine.

They also confiscated 2,000 liters of methanol in Russey keo district’s Chroy Changva commune on Friday after being tipped off by French officials.

http://khmernz.blogs...rs-charged.html

And another very nasty AP report from 2010 involving the deaths of 14 locals from drinking tainted wine. Not counterfeit, just placing local brew in a contaminated container.

http://thecareact.or...s_14_people.pdf

The BBC had a report last December on counterfeit vodka in the UK that contained the following tell-tale signs...

How to spot fake alcohol

• Spelling mistakes on the label
  
• Bottles of the same product look different
  
• Bottles not filled to same level
  
• Label not straight
  
• Smell of nail varnish
  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16366628

Edited April 8, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[emilyb]

In a different thread, another member was arguing those kinds of prices in PP likely mean the products are counterfeit. But if you look at all the different price comparisons I've posted above for soft drinks, beers and now spirits, you'll find consistently lower prices on PP sourced products. So while I don't doubt some counterfeiting occurs, the breadth of the price advantages I found either means the counterfeiting is massively rampant or, more likely, foreign products are managing to make their way into Cambodia for sale at better prices than in Thailand. For example, would someone really be going to the trouble of producing counterfeit, lower priced Dr. Pepper for sale in Cambodia??? I'm open to differing arguments on the subject.

Yeah, that's closer to the mark, no one is counterfeiting every one of those random Western products in Phnom Penh, certainly not enough to set the market rate (Johnny Walker makes a lot more sense if you think about it - supply/demand). If I saw anything ridiculously cheap I might be worried, but mostly it's down to Thailand's import tarriffs - especially on certain goods (alcohol's a big one). Alcohol imports are heavily, heavily taxed and heavily, heavily regulated in Thailand, which is what accounts for the massive price differentials (ask any winery or spirits importer here - even try to import the grain for brewing and you'll find out). Of course all goods are heavily taxed and regulated here, so that's why you get these random Western goods cheaper in Cambodia where it's pretty much just ship it in, box it and sell it. No one's counterfeiting Dr. Pepper pr Cheeto's or Degree deodorant. I could show you news articles about counterfeit products in Thailand, but it doesn't mean that all products of all varieties are coutnerfeit here either.

As for the ongoing mobile debate, read this and you'll be fine:

3G is ubiquitous in the cities and more and more commonly available throughout Cambodia, has been for some time now (at least a couple of years). Contracts for new towers are getting filled all the time. Get a Mobitel (cellcard) SIM card if you're mostly in the city or Metfone if you plan to travel a lot in the provinces. Go to the downtown HQ of either to get your SIM card and do not buy at the airport or at Somchai's Phone Shop. SIM cards are more heavily regulated and you'll usually need to go to HQ to get all your services turned on. Do not use beeline (no 3G) or any other company. At the moment, Mobitel (cellcard) has the fastest 3G in urban areas and decent coverage around the country while Metfone is a bit slower but has the most coverage.

If you want roaming access you can pay a deposit of $500 to your provider and they'll turn it on as part of a postpaid plan.

On a final note, Cambodian SIM cards have these crazy expiration dates, so it's best to talk that out with the ladies at HQ. Essentially, your credits only last 30 days and the card only survives 60 days beyond your credit expiration (I think that's the mark), so you have to be in the country something like every 60 or 90 days to renew it or it expires. If you have postpaid this does not apply.

On visas:

tombkk's info is spot on as well. It can be a little confusing as things have been changing and there's been a little bad info in the thread. If you want to stay long-term (e.g. 12 months at a time, or 6 or whatever) as has been discussed, you will apply for an "Ordinary Visa" and not a business visa. You may apply for this at the Cambodian Embassy, at the land border or at the airports where these are available and easily obtainable contrary to at least one earlier post. You will need $25 for the visa and, usually, $1 fee if you forgot your photograph - land borders, as always, feature more entrepreneurial staff so do it at the airport if possible. Extensions, as tom and others have mentioned, are available ubquitously from visa services in the range of $280 (the government fee is $275 last I read). You hand over the passport, a couple of photos and the money and you're done.

Edited April 8, 2012 by emilyb

[DP25]

Here's another similar past news report from The Phnom Penh Post re counterfeit alcohol...

Whiskey and wine in Phnom Penh I can understand. But a serious doubt there's much of a counterfeit market for cranberry flavored vodka or tequila... If the Cambodians are going to do such things, whiskey and wine seem far more likely targets.

There doesn't need to be much demand. There is demand enough that people buy them in stores, that means there is enough demand for them to sell counterfeits. It's not like it's hard for them to make labels and fill up bottles. They don't need to sell many for it to be worth it, this is a country where millions of people live on under $1.25 per day.

The prices you listed just seem too low

Jose Cuervo Especial

Phnom Penh $10

US $15.19

http://www.liquormar...quila-6330.html

Smirnoff Cranberry

Phnom Penh $9.40

US $16.99

http://www.liquormar...erry-vodka.html

A lot of places are selling these bottles for more too. Maybe you can get it a couple bucks cheaper at some other place in the US, but the Cambodian prices are too low. I don't see how Cambodia can import this stuff across the Pacific and sell it cheaper than in the US. I wouldn't trust them at all to be real at those prices.

And it's not just Cambodia that has this problem. In South Korea, they are starting to put chips on bottles, which you can scan with your cell phone in order to ensure the bottle isn't counterfeit.

http://thenextweb.co...an-cell-phones/

The plan is to attach RFID chips that contain production history data to whiskey bottles, so that anyone with a cellphone can use a plug-in scanner (which is to be stored in major bars and pubs) to see if the costly bottle of liquor he is about to order is real or bogus. National Tax Services is rolling this out to make sure they are collecting liquor taxes to the fullest. They are starting with 2 million bottles of whiskey.

Edited April 8, 2012 by DP25

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's valid points you raise... All I can say is, the things I can look at..

1. I purchased them from a reputable supermarket.. And one of the two bottles had the customs duty paper tag taped on the bottle top.

2. I've posted clear photos above of the bottle labels front and back... And with close examination, they look flawless... none of the telltale signs of fakes...

3. Also, they have different but valid UPC codes and different bottle sizes from the same versions of those products sold in Thailand.

4. Re the tequila, the back bottle label being printed in Spanish gives an interesting clue that perhaps the product was not sourced from the USA and thus not likely to have wholesale USA pricing. I don't believe Cuervo bottles meant for the U.S. market come with bottle labels printed in Spanish text.

5. Also, I think you have to be careful about using online retailing sources for the pricing of spirits.. I cited above in one post at the in-store pricing for similar products at one of the U.S. drug store chains, and the in-store pricing was much closer. The online sources for spirits do seem to be much higher.

For example, in their weekly instore ad right now, CVS drugs is selling 750 ml bottles of Smirnoff vodka for $9.99... And CVS prices certainly are higher than what you could typically find at places like Costco or Walmart.

6. As I noted previously, elsewhere in the same store, they also were selling Bailey's liqueur at very good prices... But when I checked the bottles and boxes, they either had the expire date taped over or they were a couple months from expiring. If the market was easily selling counterfeit booze, then they'd likely have no need to be using covered or close to expiring label dates. I should note, Bailey's has shorter expire dates because of its contents compared to regular spirits.

But, it's an interesting question and issue... how can the consumer know and tell.. However, in this world of international and multi market retailing, I'd say just noting that the prices are different from those in the U.S. isn't enough to draw any conclusion on that factor alone.

Edited April 9, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Chantra]

Thanks for the excellent info in this thread.

It's 15 years since I was last in PP, but one fond memory I have is of the FCC (Foreign Correspondents' Club) located in a lovely colonial building on the riverside. Great atmosphere and good grub at very cheap prices. Unlike other FCCs, no membership was required. Is it still going and, if so, is it recommended?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the FCC, yes it is, and it seemed to get generally good reviews from those that I read prior to and during our recent trip. They not only have an eatery and bar, but I gather also operate a small hotel there with rooms to stay.

[emilyb]

I still really enjoy the FCC, but it's not exactly the outpost of civilization it once was, what with Phnom Penh now becoming littered with Gloria Jeans and Pizza Company and so on. The only thing that bugs me about the FCC is the outrageous prices - like $3.50 for a beer that's $2 next door, or $3.50 for a fruit shake. Still, I can't keep myself from going back for the exact same reason - I remember it from a decade ago and the bar is still awesome and has a great mix of people.

[tombkk]

I still really enjoy the FCC, but it's not exactly the outpost of civilization it once was, what with Phnom Penh now becoming littered with Gloria Jeans and Pizza Company and so on. The only thing that bugs me about the FCC is the outrageous prices - like $3.50 for a beer that's $2 next door, or $3.50 for a fruit shake. Still, I can't keep myself from going back for the exact same reason - I remember it from a decade ago and the bar is still awesome and has a great mix of people.

Yes, and the folks you go there don't mind spending US$ 3.50 for a beer. I have an American customer who always wants to have lunch with me at the FCC, because the (Western) food is so good there.

I myself enjoy the atmosphere and the view.

[DP25]

For example, in their weekly instore ad right now, CVS drugs is selling 750 ml bottles of Smirnoff vodka for $9.99... And CVS prices certainly are higher than what you could typically find at places like Costco or Walmart.

They are selling it on sale, possibly as a loss leader, and it is still higher than they charge in Phnom Penh. Your Smirnoff bottle says it's produced in the US, I just don't see how they can sell it for that price in Cambodia. It is not free to ship it to Cambodia, and no one is going to import it so far and for such a small market and then sell it at a loss. And I can't find Costco prices online, but I don't recall ever seeing bottles of Cuervo there for $10.

I also don't think those recommendations to look for misspellings is very good advice. They have the real bottles, they are going to make an exact copy of the label. And if the real bottle they have is in Spanish or some other language, that's what they would use. I wouldn't expect any mistakes there.

I fully realize and expect many items to be cheaper than in Cambodia than Thailand, but all the other items that are not alcohol are still more expensive than in the US. I don't think it's a coincidence that the one item that is cheaper than US prices is also an item that easily faked. Bars everywhere fake it too, there have been reports on these forums of bars using cheap stuff in expensive bottles before. One guy caught a Thai bar doing this a few weeks ago, because they made a mistake and refilled the bottle with the wrong type of liquor.

Edited April 9, 2012 by DP25

[louse1953]

Interesting re the Koreans... Just nearby NagaWorld, there was some kind of huge Korean-Cambodian exhibit/retailing complex -- kind of a mall sized place of its own. I really wanted to go inside to explore, but didn't get that chance... Love Korean food... dog soup, no thanks. BTW, I had beef bulkogi at Jeju, and the thin sliced beef they used was perfectly tender and tasty... Ooops...I hope I wasn't eating Rover!

Funny you mentioned Lone Star as a similar kind of place to Freebird. At Freebird I had a very good char-grilled hamburger and fries for $4.50, while my wife had an order of beef-kebobs with peppers and onions that she thought was fine. I think the most expensive item on their menu was a couple of steak dinners in the $10 to $11 range. Whenever I'm traveling, I always use the traditional hamburger as a measurement of whether the place can reproduce a reasonable American meal. And Freebird passed that test.

We didn't stop by Lone Star, but I did read about it. Funny I said above because, when I read review comments on Lone Star, a lot of people rated it highly for its food and atmosphere... But there were a fair number of really bad comments from women complaining about their perceptions of it being a boorish, man's, sexpat kind of place. Since you're presumably a woman, I'll take your view as a positive counterpoint to the other opinions I read...

Lastly, thanks for clarifying re the visa situation. That's a detail that obviously is a very important consideration for any Thailand-based farangs who might consider PP as an alternative. Made my day, that's for sure!!!

Separately, for everyone here, while in PP, I embarked on my own quest to sample everything that I could find available from the local beer market there, including some of the brands Emily mentioned above... More on that to follow.

If you have a Thai wife,don't think she is going to move there permanent.

[louse1953]

Thanks for a lot of great info above, Emily... It matched and reinforced some of the impressions I had from my quick visit. While my wife was shopping, I actually was focused on looking around at everything I could see and find to assess the potential liveability of PP for a farang such as myself.

It's funny you mentioned about the expiry dates... I was shopping to bring back some spirits or liqueurs, as the prices in PP are much better than BKK. And I believe it was at the new Bayon Market, I found they had a great selection overall, and in particular, a stock of probably five different flavors of Baileys in liter bottles. But when I checked the boxes, someone had carefully taped over the place where the expiration date was printed. And on those flavors that didn't have the dates taped over, the visible date was due to expire in a couple of months. So I ended up passing on those, and selecting something else. I pointed out the taped-over dates to a store clerk, and she just nodded and walked away.

Question about the visa method you mentioned, which confirms the account I had mentioned above. If someone goes that route and pays $280 or so a year to a "fixer," what exact kind of stamp or visa ends up getting placed into one's passport??? Do you end up with something official that legitimately entitles you to legally be there for the full year? In looking at the MFA website, I didn't see anything that appeared to correspond to that one year stay notion.

Re smoking, my wife and I are both serious non-smokers, and bothered to be in smoking environments. But I was surprised when we spent some time in NagaWorld, that for a casino, it wasn't nearly as smokey as what we have encountered in places like Macau and elsewhere. And when we were dining out or having drinks elsewhere in the evening, at least at the places we visited, smoking or a smokey environment didn't seem to be a problem at all.

During our stay, we didn't eat any Khmer food at all, although we saw it on offer, of course. I was surprised to find a quite good American bar and restaurant there on 240 Street called Freebird where we had a great dinner and drinks provided by a great serving staff. Sure wish BKK had someplace even remotely close to that, which it doesn't.

Had an afternoon refresher of drinks and ice cream at the Blue Pumpkin on Sisowath Quay that was pleasant, comfortable air con and free wifi. Had so-so food at Munich Beer on Sothereos Blvd, but the local brewed beer there was quite good. Some of the American-run places there appeared to serve some Mexican (or Tex-Mex) items on their menus, but I didn't spot any solely Mexican eatery around town. And as I mentioned above, the Korean meal we had at Jeju at NagaWorld, while expensive for PP standards, was surprisingly good and authentic, and the service was first-rate.

As you noted above:

Burgers, sandwiches, pizzas, pastas, mains, vegetable sides and so on are all better, on average, in Phnom Penh by a long shot (and relatively cheap).

This farang could get along quite well on a staple diet consisting of those kinds of things. Give me some decent ingredients from the store, and I'll cook my own Mexican meals at home... (Ooops...forget to check if the farang-oriented markets there stocked any flour tortillas.... Dang...)

About the atmosphere of the city, I'm glad you mentioned it. I don't recall seeing a single local transit bus during our stay there in PP.. Tour and regional buses yes, but not local transit... And unlike BKK, the tuk tuks there are far less noisy and obnoxious, in addition to driving much more sanely. My Thai wife won't take a tuk tuk in BKK, but she was perfectly comfortable using them in PP throughout our stay. The PP version of tuk tuks do seem to provide a very convenient and perfectly affordable way of getting around the city even if one isn't using or having a car.

Lastly, it's also interesting you confirmed my impression about the weather in PP. From my reading ahead of our trip, I was prepared to be sweaty and miserable. But in reality, far from it. I tend to FEEL much hotter in BKK where just a walk from home to the BTS will leave my shirt damp from sweat because of the humidity. Whereas in PP, even when we were out in the mid afternoon sun, yes it felt hot, but I wasn't sweating and when we went into the shade even in non-air conditioned places like the Central or Russian markets, it was perfectly comfortable.

Again, thanks for all the great info.

I got a 30 day business visa when I drove across the border from Trat and after 25 days had it changed to a one year visa of the same. It is unlimited entry/exit Cambodia. Paid $295.00 US.I went to ANA Travel in Snooky and had it back in 5 days from PP.

No proof of funds or any other baloney like here.Just renew it each year and stay as long as you wish...Cambodia WANTS people to visit and stay. Unlike Thailand where they want you to spend a couple thousand after a couple weeks and get out. I love Cambodia. Easy visas and things are a bit cheaper overall. Sihanoukville can be the perfect mecca if you know your way around...But half the fun is getting out and about to find the places that suit you best...Happy travels...I forgot to mention that both visas, 30 day and the one year, take up full pages in your passport...Kind of a pain but wholly worth it.

Gotta be more to make me change countries than visa hassles,which for me is not a problem.Why all this talk about English skills,if you learnt Thai,maybe things would be easier,and the locals respect you more,even though Thai is 2nd language where I live.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you have a Thai wife,don't think she is going to move there permanent.

I'm not expecting necessarily that she and/or I would...

But she enjoyed the stay there. And I'm chiefly responsible for safeguarding our future. So in my view, it's best to be prepared for the unexpected and to know one's options should bad things arise.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And now today, ThaiVisa announces the launch of its new Myanmar forum and plans to launch one for Cambodia in a month or so... Obviously, some other folks here likewise are sensing rising interest in alternate locations beyond Thailand.

[OLDAUSSIE]

Interesting re the Koreans... Just nearby NagaWorld, there was some kind of huge Korean-Cambodian exhibit/retailing complex -- kind of a mall sized place of its own. I really wanted to go inside to explore, but didn't get that chance... Love Korean food... dog soup, no thanks. BTW, I had beef bulkogi at Jeju, and the thin sliced beef they used was perfectly tender and tasty... Ooops...I hope I wasn't eating Rover!

Funny you mentioned Lone Star as a similar kind of place to Freebird. At Freebird I had a very good char-grilled hamburger and fries for $4.50, while my wife had an order of beef-kebobs with peppers and onions that she thought was fine. I think the most expensive item on their menu was a couple of steak dinners in the $10 to $11 range. Whenever I'm traveling, I always use the traditional hamburger as a measurement of whether the place can reproduce a reasonable American meal. And Freebird passed that test.

We didn't stop by Lone Star, but I did read about it. Funny I said above because, when I read review comments on Lone Star, a lot of people rated it highly for its food and atmosphere... But there were a fair number of really bad comments from women complaining about their perceptions of it being a boorish, man's, sexpat kind of place. Since you're presumably a woman, I'll take your view as a positive counterpoint to the other opinions I read...

Lastly, thanks for clarifying re the visa situation. That's a detail that obviously is a very important consideration for any Thailand-based farangs who might consider PP as an alternative. Made my day, that's for sure!!!

Separately, for everyone here, while in PP, I embarked on my own quest to sample everything that I could find available from the local beer market there, including some of the brands Emily mentioned above... More on that to follow.

If you have a Thai wife,don't think she is going to move there permanent.

My Thai wife lived there with me for 5 years and really enjoyed it. I have an English friend he and his Thai wife live in Sihanoukville and have a very successful business.

[OLDAUSSIE]

Some of the members might find these links handy.

Cambodia yellow pages: http://www.yellowpages-cambodia.com/

Information about Cambodia on bongthom. http://www.bongthom.com/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks for those posts and info, Aussie...

[bendix]

_{A very good thread and there is some excellent information on here.}

_{I'm a big fan of Phnom Penh and love the gentle ambience of the place. There is nothing better in my mind than buzzing around the city late at night on the back of a motodop, through darkened streets with no traffic. Contrary to some of the posts here, I've never felt in the least unsafe, even down the darkest streets, and I find the people very very welcoming.}

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

[jeffgood]

_{A very good thread and there is some excellent information on here.}

_{I'm a big fan of Phnom Penh and love the gentle ambience of the place. There is nothing better in my mind than buzzing around the city late at night on the back of a motodop, through darkened streets with no traffic. Contrary to some of the posts here, I've never felt in the least unsafe, even down the darkest streets, and I find the people very very welcoming.}

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

Agree the local food is not as nice as Thailand, but there are some lovely restaurants in PP! Pacharan (Spanish Tapas) kicks the arse of any tapas restaurant in BKK for example.....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

The pejorative comment about American food aside, there's lots of international food choices available in PP. No reason to confine one's self to some quite good American food choices there.

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

http://www.martini-cambodia.com/

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g293940-d324073-Reviews-Martini_Pub-Phnom_Penh.html

Edited April 11, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[cardholder]

_{A very good thread and there is some excellent information on here.}

_{I'm a big fan of Phnom Penh and love the gentle ambience of the place. There is nothing better in my mind than buzzing around the city late at night on the back of a motodop, through darkened streets with no traffic. Contrary to some of the posts here, I've never felt in the least unsafe, even down the darkest streets, and I find the people very very welcoming.}

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

Agree the local food is not as nice as Thailand, but there are some lovely restaurants in PP! Pacharan (Spanish Tapas) kicks the arse of any tapas restaurant in BKK for example.....

At the risk of being pilloried, I think Thai food is often overrated.

I agree that Khmer food is generally dull and Amok is as boring as it gets. However, in my experience they simply do not drown their food with chillies and garlic. Bok la hong is a 'mai pet' version of som tam and when we take wives to Cambodia we have to ask for extra chillies in most things.

What Cambodia does have, as a result of external influences that have been encouraged, is a diversity of international cuisine. I had a fantastic Chicken Caesar salad in a side street restaurant/kitchen in Siem Reap - totally unexpected.

[kerryk]

_{A very good thread and there is some excellent information on here.}

_{I'm a big fan of Phnom Penh and love the gentle ambience of the place. There is nothing better in my mind than buzzing around the city late at night on the back of a motodop, through darkened streets with no traffic. Contrary to some of the posts here, I've never felt in the least unsafe, even down the darkest streets, and I find the people very very welcoming.}

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

When you say American rubbish do you mean when evaluated with a deep fried Mars bar palate or is it American food prepared poorly.

You get what I am saying? I assume you think chocolate fried in pig fat or boiled sheep innards are the height of fine flavor, so I'm wondering how you judge cuisine.

If the American food was sold in America would it sell? Is it properly prepared or poorly prepared and what kind of American food are you talking about? Or is it just another chance to randomly bash America?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Funny true tale... During our recent trip to PP, when we were riding around in a tuk tuk, we found ourselves driving behind a motorcycle driver who had a rack on the back and was carrying around in the open air 5 or 6 full-body roasted pigs.

Now that we're back in BKK, for some reason, my wife seems to be less interested in eating pork. For some reason, seeing the piggies on the back of the motocy rubbed her the wrong way.

[bendix]

_{A very good thread and there is some excellent information on here.}

_{I'm a big fan of Phnom Penh and love the gentle ambience of the place. There is nothing better in my mind than buzzing around the city late at night on the back of a motodop, through darkened streets with no traffic. Contrary to some of the posts here, I've never felt in the least unsafe, even down the darkest streets, and I find the people very very welcoming.}

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

When you say American rubbish do you mean when evaluated with a deep fried Mars bar palate or is it American food prepared poorly.

You get what I am saying? I assume you think chocolate fried in pig fat or boiled sheep innards are the height of fine flavor, so I'm wondering how you judge cuisine.

If the American food was sold in America would it sell? Is it properly prepared or poorly prepared and what kind of American food are you talking about? Or is it just another chance to randomly bash America?

Get over yourself . . it was a throw-away line. Why be so sensitive.

As for your references to deep-fried mars bars and haggis, I think you're confusing me with someone Scottish. I'm not.

My point is that so much of the American food in PP tends to be that burger, nachos, fries, tex-mex high fat stuff. Because the local cuisine is so bland, you end up spending all your time eating tons of carbohydrates and stodge. Nothing wrong with that now and again, of course - I'm as big a fan of burritos and jalapenos relenos as the next man - but after a week of it I yearn for something fresh and exotic.

[bendix]

Funny true tale... During our recent trip to PP, when we were riding around in a tuk tuk, we found ourselves driving behind a motorcycle driver who had a rack on the back and was carrying around in the open air 5 or 6 full-body roasted pigs.

Now that we're back in BKK, for some reason, my wife seems to be less interested in eating pork. For some reason, seeing the piggies on the back of the motocy rubbed her the wrong way.

When I was in PP back in February the big news story was the banning of restaurants spit-roasting whole cows outside the restaurant.

Oh, and the Khmer Rouge trials of course . . .

[kerryk]

_{A very good thread and there is some excellent information on here.}

_{I'm a big fan of Phnom Penh and love the gentle ambience of the place. There is nothing better in my mind than buzzing around the city late at night on the back of a motodop, through darkened streets with no traffic. Contrary to some of the posts here, I've never felt in the least unsafe, even down the darkest streets, and I find the people very very welcoming.}

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

When you say American rubbish do you mean when evaluated with a deep fried Mars bar palate or is it American food prepared poorly.

You get what I am saying? I assume you think chocolate fried in pig fat or boiled sheep innards are the height of fine flavor, so I'm wondering how you judge cuisine.

If the American food was sold in America would it sell? Is it properly prepared or poorly prepared and what kind of American food are you talking about? Or is it just another chance to randomly bash America?

Get over yourself . . it was a throw-away line. Why be so sensitive.

As for your references to deep-fried mars bars and haggis, I think you're confusing me with someone Scottish. I'm not.

My point is that so much of the American food in PP tends to be that burger, nachos, fries, tex-mex high fat stuff. Because the local cuisine is so bland, you end up spending all your time eating tons of carbohydrates and stodge. Nothing wrong with that now and again, of course - I'm as big a fan of burritos and jalapenos relenos as the next man - but after a week of it I yearn for something fresh and exotic.

Well OK as long as you state it that way. At least the food is not that British Rubbish you get in Pattaya.

[cardholder]

_{A very good thread and there is some excellent information on here.}

_{I'm a big fan of Phnom Penh and love the gentle ambience of the place. There is nothing better in my mind than buzzing around the city late at night on the back of a motodop, through darkened streets with no traffic. Contrary to some of the posts here, I've never felt in the least unsafe, even down the darkest streets, and I find the people very very welcoming.}

_{If only its national cuisine was as good as Thailand's it would be paradise. It gets a bit boring eating American rubbish all the time.}

_{How a whole thread has appeared on PP with absolutely no mention of Martinis is beyond me. Get a grip on yourselves people.}

When you say American rubbish do you mean when evaluated with a deep fried Mars bar palate or is it American food prepared poorly.

You get what I am saying? I assume you think chocolate fried in pig fat or boiled sheep innards are the height of fine flavor, so I'm wondering how you judge cuisine.

If the American food was sold in America would it sell? Is it properly prepared or poorly prepared and what kind of American food are you talking about? Or is it just another chance to randomly bash America?

Get over yourself . . it was a throw-away line. Why be so sensitive.

As for your references to deep-fried mars bars and haggis, I think you're confusing me with someone Scottish. I'm not.

My point is that so much of the American food in PP tends to be that burger, nachos, fries, tex-mex high fat stuff. Because the local cuisine is so bland, you end up spending all your time eating tons of carbohydrates and stodge. Nothing wrong with that now and again, of course - I'm as big a fan of burritos and jalapenos relenos as the next man - but after a week of it I yearn for something fresh and exotic.

Well OK as long as you state it that way. At least the food is not that British Rubbish you get in Pattaya.

We having a pop at everyone today keeryk ?

If you are eating British rubbish you are eating in the wrong places - there are some excellent British dishes.

Please don't tell me you are an Ozzie - food culture is a strong point there, is it ?

[kerryk]

Naw, It was Bendix's throwaway remark about American Rubbish up set me stomach as I had faggots and mashed for lunch and was just getting ready for my afternoon morris dancing lesson.

[cardholder]

Naw, It was Bendix's throwaway remark about American Rubbish up set me stomach as I had faggots and mashed for lunch and was just getting ready for my afternoon morris dancing lesson.

Faggots - now you are talking! - Here's ours:-

Edited April 11, 2012 by cardholder

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When I was in PP back in February the big news story was the banning of restaurants spit-roasting whole cows outside the restaurant.

And still in March and April as well...