How Strict Are The Working Laws Here

[petercallen]

I have heard all sorts of thing from different people including you cannot

work in your own yard, i work in my own yard

I want to buy a grass cutter to cut the grass down on the road verge opposite

the house and along the side wall outside, can i do this without being arrested

Or would my wife have to do it

[Somtamnication]

In theory, any work you do, you could get in trouble. In theory, you could be painting your gate, a tourist police car is driving by, can stop and make your life a living hell.

No idea if anyone ever has, but I seem to remember a story once about a farang being harassed by them once, about 8 years ago.

In these days of xenophobia, I would be careful. It will get worse.

I am on my way out the door to clean up my dog´s sh1t. Hope no one sees me. That chihuahua has bigger dumps than me!

[Lannatyne]

Sounds like updated advice from "Issues and Answers" is required. I'd suggest nobody will know for certain.

I believe that working within 'your own 4 walls' is acceptable. Taking that outside on the street, as you intend, may be risky, especially with the prying eyes of others.

Further, I also think that 'benefit' comes into it:

Paid labour - customer gets benefit of service / product and you get benefit of monetary reward.

Volunteer - as above, but you get the benefit of experience or 'mental reward'.

Therefore, if you are the only one getting benefit from cutting the grass outside your house, then you may be fine. If others get benefit, then it could be seen as a kind of volunteer work, for which you need permits.

It's all so bloody stupid, isn't it!!

Overall, the best way is for you to get the wife to that bit while you crack open a tinnie.

[petercallen]

One person told me who's wife had a restaurant he was not allowed to stack the drinks

in the fridge, his wife had to do it or he had to employ someone

[Lannatyne]

One person told me who's wife had a restaurant he was not allowed to stack the drinks

in the fridge, his wife had to do it or he had to employ someone

Absolutely!! That is physical work, by any definition, that a proper employee could do.

I remember a few years ago that some deluded farang tried to argue that he wasn't 'working' when he was keeping an eye on his employees when doing their jobs. Since when has 'supervision' and 'management' not been work - as the immigration police advised him.

[petercallen]

One person told me who's wife had a restaurant he was not allowed to stack the drinks

in the fridge, his wife had to do it or he had to employ someone

Absolutely!! That is physical work, by any definition, that a proper employee could do.

I remember a few years ago that some deluded farang tried to argue that he wasn't 'working' when he was keeping an eye on his employees when doing their jobs. Since when has 'supervision' and 'management' not been work - as the immigration police advised him.

Wasn't that the German guy who got arrested and deported for not having a work permit

[petercallen]

Sounds like updated advice from "Issues and Answers" is required. I'd suggest nobody will know for certain.

I believe that working within 'your own 4 walls' is acceptable. Taking that outside on the street, as you intend, may be risky, especially with the prying eyes of others.

Further, I also think that 'benefit' comes into it:

Paid labour - customer gets benefit of service / product and you get benefit of monetary reward.

Volunteer - as above, but you get the benefit of experience or 'mental reward'.

Therefore, if you are the only one getting benefit from cutting the grass outside your house, then you may be fine. If others get benefit, then it could be seen as a kind of volunteer work, for which you need permits.

It's all so bloody stupid, isn't it!!

Overall, the best way is for you to get the wife to that bit while you crack open a tinnie.

Questions and answers are very selective in what they post

I asked about the cleaning up the local rubbish cage site which was infested with rats

and flies and stunk to high heaven, not posted, when the Myanmar builders lived close

i paid them twice to clean it up, now the village headman has had someone clean it up again

[lavender19]

You will not be able to cut the grass outside but you can supervise your wife.

I have a very nice Honda 4 stroke brush/grass cutter for sale if you are interested.

Only been used about3 times

[Old Croc]

You will not be able to cut the grass outside but you can supervise your wife.

I have a very nice Honda 4 stroke brush/grass cutter for sale if you are interested.

Only been used about3 times

How much? (for the wife)

[petercallen]

You will not be able to cut the grass outside but you can supervise your wife.

I have a very nice Honda 4 stroke brush/grass cutter for sale if you are interested.

Only been used about3 times

Already bought one thanks, you should have posted earlier

We wanted a line feed head not a blade, When to Home Pro first, then House and Home,

Then Bangkok Hardware, True Value and Home works they all said they only had the blade type

Called into Home Pro on the way back and the regular lady who sells them was there

Bought a Asgatec brush cutter for 2990 baht which the other staff claimed was made in

Germany(not the regular lady) all Asgetec products are made in China

No way could you buy a brush cutter made in Germany for under $100

Also Home Pro had the best prices, which does not always happen they can be expensive

It came with both line and blade cutting heads

[NamKangMan]

You will not be able to cut the grass outside but you can supervise your wife.

I have a very nice Honda 4 stroke brush/grass cutter for sale if you are interested.

Only been used about3 times

By selling your brush/grass cutter, for monetary gain, is that not considered "work?" Better get the wife to sell it. Hopefully, she will not keep all of the money. :) :)

[NomadJoe]

Issues and Answers, Phuket Gazette, June 2008

Will mowing the lawn get me into trouble?

I am retired and living in Thailand on a non-immigrant O visa. My visa clearly states that employment is prohibited, which I am quite happy with since I never intend to work here.

Some of my friends, however, tell me that I am not even permitted to carry out minor jobs, such as cutting my own grass, gardening, house cleaning and so on. Can you please define the term “employment” as used by Thai Immigration because I understand it to mean any work carried out for financial reward. Ray Brown, Krabi.

“The retirement visa prohibiting employment means that you cannot do any kind of work “for anyone else” even if you don’t receive pay or any other reward for it.

For example, you cannot be a writer who sends your stories to publish in journals or newspapers, even if you don’t get paid, or work as a volunteer translating documents free of charge.

However, this doesn’t mean that you cannot do work for your daily life at your home. You are still able to clean the dishes, cut grass, cook or whatever in your home, just as anyone does in their normal daily lives.” Janya Yingyong, an officer at the Phuket Provincial Employment Office Work Permit Section.

http://www.phuketgaz...ils.asp?id=1038

[petercallen]

Issues and Answers, Phuket Gazette, June 2008

Will mowing the lawn get me into trouble?

I am retired and living in Thailand on a non-immigrant O visa. My visa clearly states that employment is prohibited, which I am quite happy with since I never intend to work here.

Some of my friends, however, tell me that I am not even permitted to carry out minor jobs, such as cutting my own grass, gardening, house cleaning and so on. Can you please define the term “employment” as used by Thai Immigration because I understand it to mean any work carried out for financial reward. Ray Brown, Krabi.

“The retirement visa prohibiting employment means that you cannot do any kind of work “for anyone else” even if you don’t receive pay or any other reward for it.

For example, you cannot be a writer who sends your stories to publish in journals or newspapers, even if you don’t get paid, or work as a volunteer translating documents free of charge.

However, this doesn’t mean that you cannot do work for your daily life at your home. You are still able to clean the dishes, cut grass, cook or whatever in your home, just as anyone does in their normal daily lives.” Janya Yingyong, an officer at the Phuket Provincial Employment Office Work Permit Section.

http://www.phuketgaz...ils.asp?id=1038

Sounds like if i cut the grass outside of the house block boundaries

to keep it neat and tidy i would be breaking the law

I will just have to show the Mrs how to use the brush cutter properly

should take me a whole ten minutes, cannot do it on the house block we

have no grass

[phl]

i honestly do not think doing any housework on your own house is a breach of any kind. BECAUSE you are not engaged in a commercial or business environment.

Sure tourist police can stop and TRY to make a case, but i doubt they would insist if you simply do not comply with them, AGAIN because you are not involved in a commercial activity of any kind.

Of course if your spouse owns a restaurant and you are painting it or stacking the fridge, you are in breach. because it is a commercial premises

[stevenl]

Commercial or not really is not the issue. Think of all kind of volunteer activities, all not allowed without workpermit.

[phl]

Commercial or not really is not the issue. Think of all kind of volunteer activities, all not allowed without workpermit.

correct but volunteers are involved in a commercial environment, being paid or not is not relevant. HOWEVER doing home chores is non commercial and therefore not a breach, because if following your logic(do not mean you personally) one could be arrested for carrying his/her own groceries from the store

or arrested for driving his own car

[stevenl]

Commercial or not really is not the issue. Think of all kind of volunteer activities, all not allowed without workpermit.

correct but volunteers are involved in a commercial environment, being paid or not is not relevant. HOWEVER doing home chores is non commercial and therefore not a breach, because if following your logic(do not mean you personally) one could be arrested for carrying his/her own groceries from the store

or arrested for driving his own car

Agree with you, I just think 'commercial' is not the correct word or criterium. Many volunteers are not involved in a commercial environment, but still volunteering illegal.

[phl]

Commercial or not really is not the issue. Think of all kind of volunteer activities, all not allowed without workpermit.

correct but volunteers are involved in a commercial environment, being paid or not is not relevant. HOWEVER doing home chores is non commercial and therefore not a breach, because if following your logic(do not mean you personally) one could be arrested for carrying his/her own groceries from the store

or arrested for driving his own car

Agree with you, I just think 'commercial' is not the correct word or criterium. Many volunteers are not involved in a commercial environment, but still volunteering illegal.

lol, commercial may not be the correct word, but i think we both understand what i am trying to say. you could say business, but basically any place of business or commercial activity,

I firmly standby to my earlier post, that home chores are not a breach of any kind.

Volunteers also are assisting others who are working and are being paid,

I may well be wrong, but then we would have heard by now many stories of foreigners being arrested for some silly things like cutting the grass in their own home or painting their own home

[Shot]

Commercial or not really is not the issue. Think of all kind of volunteer activities, all not allowed without workpermit.

correct but volunteers are involved in a commercial environment, being paid or not is not relevant. HOWEVER doing home chores is non commercial and therefore not a breach, because if following your logic(do not mean you personally) one could be arrested for carrying his/her own groceries from the store

or arrested for driving his own car

Agree with you, I just think 'commercial' is not the correct word or criterium. Many volunteers are not involved in a commercial environment, but still volunteering illegal.

This is something I have never understood. What if you volunteer for a job not currently being done? Such as picking up trash at a local beach? It just dosent make sense.

[phl]

Commercial or not really is not the issue. Think of all kind of volunteer activities, all not allowed without workpermit.

correct but volunteers are involved in a commercial environment, being paid or not is not relevant. HOWEVER doing home chores is non commercial and therefore not a breach, because if following your logic(do not mean you personally) one could be arrested for carrying his/her own groceries from the store

or arrested for driving his own car

Agree with you, I just think 'commercial' is not the correct word or criterium. Many volunteers are not involved in a commercial environment, but still volunteering illegal.

This is something I have never understood. What if you volunteer for a job not currently being done? Such as picking up trash at a local beach? It just dosent make sense.

, well if you go alone and start picking up trash you are NOT in breach, however if you go to the trash company and start to drive around with them or working along side them (even though being a volunteer) you ARE in breach

Edited April 18, 2012 by phl

[cdmtdm]

This is something I have never understood. What if you volunteer for a job not currently being done? Such as picking up trash at a local beach? It just dosent make sense.

the thai culture has no logic .....

[phl]

This is something I have never understood. What if you volunteer for a job not currently being done? Such as picking up trash at a local beach? It just dosent make sense.

the thai culture has no logic .....

of course it does, its a logic of no logic

[HongKongPhooey]

This is something I have never understood. What if you volunteer for a job not currently being done? Such as picking up trash at a local beach? It just dosent make sense.

the thai culture has no logic .....

Agree to a certain degree but seeing as nobody would ever, ever, ever get in to trouble for walking down a beach picking up rubbish, it's a bit of a moot point.

If you started a campaign and got 30 people all doing at the same time perhaps but not on your own.

[Bosse137]

About how strict the law is,my guess is,that as long as you "work" with something that belongs to you/your wife,the application of the law is not so strict.Unless,of course,someone is out to get you.But I could be wrong,as stated in some posts.What I want to know is,what is the penalty for breaking this law? Deportation? Jail? Paying a fine? What? Has it actually happened to anyone reading this?

[HongKongPhooey]

^ Would also be interested in first hand accounts. I would guess the penalties would be a gentle push toward the departure lounge with a don't come back stamp in your passport.

I would also be very surprised if we ever heard a first hand account from anyone who was caught and punished, for anything other than blatantly working without the right permit. I wouldn't hold your breath for any stories of people being marched off to the airport for mowing their lawn.

I know there was the time people couldn't help after the tsunami which was unbelievable even by Thai standards, but nobody got done as far as I know.

[PattayaPhom]

This is something I have never understood. What if you volunteer for a job not currently being done? Such as picking up trash at a local beach? It just dosent make sense.

the thai culture has no logic .....

I think on this subject its the foreign culture that has no logic. employment laws are strict but get a grip...work permit for washing your car etc....

[KarenBravo]

A number of years ago, it was reported in the Gazette that a man who carried a sack of lemons to his wife's pavement site, opposite the old wet market in Phuket Town, was arrested for working without a work-permit.

He was dobbed in by one of his wife's competitors. The usual punishment is a fine and then deportation, but, you can jump on the next plane back with no problems.

[stevehaigh]

A number of years ago, it was reported in the Gazette that a man who carried a sack of lemons to his wife's pavement site, opposite the old wet market in Phuket Town, was arrested for working without a work-permit.

He was dobbed in by one of his wife's competitors. The usual punishment is a fine and then deportation, but, you can jump on the next plane back with no problems.

immigration police are always hanging around my place busting the burmese laborers but they never give me any trouble even through its clear i'm doing some stuff on my own house. it all come down to who you piss off i think.

[bendix]

What makes people so paranoid. It is absolute nonsense to suggest that you can't do simple chores like lawn-mowing, painting etc at your home without fear of being deported. What next? Suggesting you cant put your clothes in a washing machine for fear you should be employing a maid instead.

Some people need to stop listening to bar stories, and get a bit more common sense.

[KarenBravo]

Some people need to stop listening to bar stories, and get a bit more common sense.

Common sense doesn't seem to apply in Thailand.

If you constantly used common sense, you will constantly be wrong-footed here.

You should know that.