Do You Get Dirty Looks From Thai Women?

[Converse]

I would like some advice from the women comnunity in Bangkok because I keep getting dirty looks and I don't know what to do. I'm a black woman in her thirties, quite curvy and trying to follow the example by dressing smart and not scruffy or sexy. I only know scraps of Thai but I try to smile and be polite as best as I can. The Thai men stare but it's mostly the Thai women that look at me up and down like I'm some kind of monster. It happens in the street, on the BTS, evetywhere I go. Some are plain rude to me when I want to buy something. I've read on the internet that it was bad to be dark in Thailand. Is it true or is it something I'm doing wrong? I'm on my own in Bangkok and I have no one to give me some guidance. Any kind of advice from Thai or foreign women would be much appreciated. Tell me what is happening, it's really getting to me 

[g00dgirl]

Yes Thais are very extreme in their belief that the darker the skin the poorer and less educated the person ... as in having to do manual labor out in the hot sun for little money. White skin represents the upper class, people who deserve respect in their eyes.

If I were you I would just feel sorry for those who treat you disrespectfully and consider them to be less well educated and superficial.

White skin is unfortunately the absolute ideal and even deodorant needs to be skin whitening to sell well ...

Maybe you can find some better educated Thais or socialize with expats.

[LucidLucifer]

As above.

Or put in a simpler way, most Thais are racist.

[Krupnik]

Hi Converse

Sorry to hear about your reception from Thai women. I am a little surprised actually because I would have thought that they would have a more liberal attitude in Bangkok, being the capital and used to foriegn women. Like others said, unfortunately dark skin is viewed in a bad way here. For Thais it means that you are poor, have to work outside so you're darker from the sun, that is the theory behind it, I alway wondered about it because many of my students who have dark skin are infact rich.

I am a farang like you and although I have white skin, I often get a cold reception. Not usually when I am in Chiang Mai, which is a tourist place where Thais are used to foreigners, but when I am in other provinces or areas that are not used to farangs, I get stared at and sometimes receive an unfriendly manner, especially when in small local shops and stuff.

I do not to let it get to me, try to do the same. Remember that it is their problem for being small minded to think this way just because of the colour of your skin.

[beachyman]

Hi Converse

Sorry to hear about your reception from Thai women. I am a little surprised actually because I would have thought that they would have a more liberal attitude in Bangkok, being the capital and used to foriegn women. Like others said, unfortunately dark skin is viewed in a bad way here. For Thais it means that you are poor, have to work outside so you're darker from the sun, that is the theory behind it, I alway wondered about it because many of my students who have dark skin are infact rich.

I am a farang like you and although I have white skin, I often get a cold reception. Not usually when I am in Chiang Mai, which is a tourist place where Thais are used to foreigners, but when I am in other provinces or areas that are not used to farangs, I get stared at and sometimes receive an unfriendly manner, especially when in small local shops and stuff.

I do not to let it get to me, try to do the same. Remember that it is their problem for being small minded to think this way just because of the colour of your skin.

My wife is Caucasian and she gets the stink eye from top to toe from a lot of thai women but mainly ones that, in my opinion, seem like current or former "women of the night". It could be racism, bad experiences with farangs, jealousy, dislike or a combination of factors. It seems to be dependent on areas too- a lot less of it around where we live or ramhankhen but in Lak si or lad phrao wow I even sometimes notice it blatantly.

Don't let it get you down, you shouldn't worry about people's opinions except your loved ones!

[JuliaThazinMayerhofer]

That's interesting - I am also Caucasian and my skin is super white and it's impossible for me to tan. But Thais here totally love it and I get a lot of attention and stares, but all in a very nice way.

But having said, yes unfortunately it's true that Thais are still quite racist - my colleague is Indian and sometimes also does not have an easy time here.

[strollling]

I wouldn't care if I went to the zoo and the animals looked me up and down.

[beachyman]

That's interesting - I am also Caucasian and my skin is super white and it's impossible for me to tan. But Thais here totally love it and I get a lot of attention and stares, but all in a very nice way.

But having said, yes unfortunately it's true that Thais are still quite racist - my colleague is Indian and sometimes also does not have an easy time here.

Yeah no I agree most times it is seemingly positive but in certain areas, or types of people, it seems like it is considered less of a novelty and more of scorn. Further away from touristy places the better.

But it's a bit off topic for the OP as it may indeed be a racist/bad experience type of negativity that people she encounter project much like your Indian friend. Shame, most Thais are so wonderful...

[beachyman]

I wouldn't care if I went to the zoo and the animals looked me up and down.

Comparing Thais to animals is quite harsh and rude in and of itself. Some thoughts some people may be medieval but certainly you can't dismiss a whole country of people. I have two black friends both who are in loving relationships with professional Thais, have met their families, etc.

[sbk]

I suspect beachyman has it spot on, its a combination of the things he has listed.

What I would do, when encountering this, is to give them a very sweet and friendly smile instead. You might be surprised by the reaction.

[Converse]

Thanks everyone for your comments. They shed a light on many things.

It's a shame that the Thais would think that dark means poor and uneducated. The majority of them are dark and must have their heritage tracking back to the fields centuries ago. Surely they should be proud of their hard work? What's the logic for a tropical nation to want to be white? Not amount of product or coverage or working in a nice indoor job is going to dissipate their dark colouring.

I have met some lovely people in Thailand and I don't want to put the entire population in the same basket. But I was having a bad day yesterday and the unfriendly look on the people's faces when I went to get some noodle soup at the street corner was just the cherry on the cake. I usually don't care what people think about me. Like I said it's mostly women so it might be a female thing too, something that I'm doing without realising. I've seen only a handful of black women so far in Bangkok (white caucasian on the other hand are very common). Maybe the thai women can't believe their eyes when they see my curves, skin colour and afro hair ... Surprisingly, a couple of Thais told me I looked indian and were quite puzzled when I explained I wasn't. So maybe that's the problem, I look Indian. Sounds like Indians are not particularly welcome in Thailand either.

Anyway, I'll try not to let it get to me and just carry on with my life as I did before. Will smile even harder if I have to!

[strollling]

The majority of them are dark and must have their heritage tracking back to the fields centuries ago.

Not the ones with power.

[2unique]

Also to consider is location, whenever I have to walk around near Sukhumvit Soi 3 I get rude looks particularly when turning onto Sukhumvit. It's almost as if I'm crossing out of an accepted African zone illegally! Most Thais can't tell the difference between Africans and Black British and up until a few years ago were incredulous that black people came from outside Africa or America.

There seem to be more African women (to my untrained eye) working the Sukhumvit area and it may be that they are looking at you as someone entering their market! The reason I say this is that That's are usually more tolerant of black women than black men again this is only from personal experience when my sister visits.

If I may be so bold, where does this happen and where do you hail from originally?

Sent from Android please excuse errors in type or judgement

[how241]

Yes Thais are very extreme in their belief that the darker the skin the poorer and less educated the person ... as in having to do manual labor out in the hot sun for little money. White skin represents the upper class, people who deserve respect in their eyes.

If I were you I would just feel sorry for those who treat you disrespectfully and consider them to be less well educated and superficial.

White skin is unfortunately the absolute ideal and even deodorant needs to be skin whitening to sell well ...

Maybe you can find some better educated Thais or socialize with expats.

+1

[eek]

Edit: this is based on my experience in Chiang Mai, not sure if you feel it applies or not.

I get stink looks, up and down looks, but mainly if im dressed very well or out in a club. So dont worry OP, I dont think its just your skin colour. What age are the woman giving you these looks? Usually i find its from women half my age, which is ridiculous! Looking at me like they just sucked lemons. I had gotten used to it, until i went to Pai, and was smiled at without the sucking lemons look. Got back to Chiang Mai, and there it sometimes is, the eyes up down up down, sucking lemons look. (I remember one night i popped out of my condo, just to the little downstairs shop. Was wearing jammie bottoms (presentable!) and a white tshirt. It was a Friday night and a couple of girls decked out with heels, false eyelashes, trowel of make up etc etc, obviously out for the night, did a smug look up down on me. I thought to myself, well, you know, i will wake up looking like the same person, can the same be said of you? lol!) Anyway, i usually do as sbk said, i smile. ..and usually it jolts the girls into some sense of embarrassment. Not always (particularly in clubs, where whole bloody posse's of them do the saloon bar silence on me sometimes. Times when i think tumbleweed is going to roll in), but mostly. Makes me wonder what the truly very attractive farang girls get!

Try not to let it get to you OP. Do understand though. Arm yourself with a smile and a feeling of its THEIR problem, not yours, and surround yourself with people who arent so superficial. Tbh, think about it this way, its really quite sad that some girls need to weigh you up physically. Just shows they value themselves and others purely by looks. I had a pretty bad accident a few months back, which now requires a work on my nose and face, and, you know, im still ok...purely because i dont measure my self-worth based on my appearance. I want to look good of course, but i know my appearance is one small aspect of who i am. With some of these girls, their worlds may just fall apart if they lost their looks. Ignore them and carry on enjoying life!

[Converse]

Most Thais can't tell the difference between Africans and Black British and up until a few years ago were incredulous that black people came from outside Africa or America.

Seriously? God I can't believe it!

To answer eek and 2unique, I'm a mixed white/black african with a fairly dark but not ebony skin. My father was Congolese and my mother is French and very white. I think I should have been darker because of my father but it didn't happen (although I have to be careful at the beach because then I burn like a toast) I spent 12 years in England before coming to Bangkok to do a teacher training course, in Silom to be exact. My students were intrigued about my skin colour, but in a nice, amusing way. It was like a mixed african background with parents from different countries was a completely alien idea to them.

I'm still in Silom at the moment and now I realise the stares are mostly from those young, gorgeous white office workers in the mornings BTS. But there was also the older girl at the bakery that was giving me such a sour face every time I walked in I stopped going there ... The women selling clothes on Silom, frowning with distaste and pointing at their rails, saying 'small, small'. Well I know I can't fit their tiny dresses and jeans, but I can fit some of the baggy tops and hell I'm going to buy them! The look on their faces when I walk by wearing the top is absolutely priceless. It's like "Gosh, did you see that? She can wear it!' The women at food stalls behave like I disturb them greatly from an important business when I come close ... The fashionable girls at the mall in Victory Monument smirked and stared when I was looking for business clothes and just on thursday, that very pretty, petite little girl in MBK did a pose and said scornfully 'What? For you?' when I asked if she had size 4 low top Converse. It was for me, there was nobody else in the shop and I couldn't help looking at her like she was stupid and she noticed, that wasn't awkward ... I don't know if she felt threatened by my colour, my money or just because I interrupted her conversation with her boyfriend sitting next to her but her total lack of manners infuriated me, I thought of doing something very brutal and spiky with her perfect hair ... It can't be my looks, I'm pretty average with enough BMI to share with a skinny thai girl. But I must agree when eek said it's not only skin colour. It's like I keep receiving nasty superficial attitude by women trying to impose their good looks on me. I mean even the cleaners here are perfect. Do they expect me to admit I'm physically inferior (big, black, strange?) and be a meek, supplicating wreck when I come to ask for something? I seriously have much better things to do with my time, sorry girls!

There's been other incidents and sometimes I just want to scream 'Yeah, I'm different. Get on with it!' I'm thinking about getting the T-shirt done in English and in Thai. Or maybe I should try something like 'Look a plane!' and point at the sky to get the attention off me?

I'm surprised that eek is having such reception in Chiang Mai. Everyone I talked to told me Chiang Mai is much nicer and relaxed than Bangkok and the people there are lovely. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll think of tumbleweed rolling by next time I get 'the look' and try not to laugh out loud , that might do the trick. I always try to make lemonade when life give me lemons instead of sucking the lemons, it taste better. Maybe you could suggest those ladies to do the same and stop giving attitude to you?

Sorry about the sarcastic, dry remarks. It's my way of venting my frustration. I don't mean to offend anyone

[kurnell]

I know a couple of brown guys here and they don't seem to have many problems. Maybe it is because you are a woman, or maybe you are a little sensitive?? Maybe both.

[eek]

kurnell, sections of Thai women do seem to be very competitive, and/or (out of habit or whatever) do seem to weigh other women up. Men for the most parts only see the general nice side and smiles. Wonder why eh. ;p

Converse, Chiang Mai isnt so very bad, im just passing on the negative part, as it was relevant. (For the most part, everyday life etc, the people are lovely. ) Its funny you brought it up, because it was something my boyfriend mentioned some months back, and thats when i really started to observe (i noticed it in clubs, but that can happen all over the world. Some groups of women can get a bit catty in clubs. Normal). Interesting to read it from other women. Anyway, dont let those silly girls kill your spirit. You sound like you have a good attitude (and, as an aside, a very interesting background. More than what many giving you daggers can say). Go ahead, think of the tumbleweed, please do! ..and get a smirk on your face from it. I dont think the looks are going to stop, so best thing to try do is not let it bother you. Turn it around and think how funny it is that you are even on their radars. Better yet, learn to be unfazed if possible.

The girl in MBK..unbelievably rude! Not sure whats the best approach with this kind of things, but when someone is ever rude to me here, i do a bit of an indirect reverse insult. (Might be a bit silly, but not sure what alternative). I get on my phone and pretend to talk to someone i know in Thai (a pretend Thai boyfriend is a good one, because you can drop in a comment about does he have the credit card on him..lol). In this particular case i would say something along the lines of .. im in "x" shop, and there are many items i want, but the girl is rude/not polite, so will go to another store". Chances are she earns commission too, so gets her where it hurts. Then once you come off the phone, any clothes you have in your hands, give it the old casual snooty "hmm..no, I dont want, thank you" (better if you can say in Thai), then hand her the item(s) to put back and walk out with an important air. ^^^

(Edit: same conversation could work in English though (not sure if you speak Thai or not), just find that if i use Thai they get a double whammy shock factor )

[Geekfreaklover]

Basically Thai people do not consider tight fitting figure revealing clothes to be appropiate unless one is of the right colour (White) and the right shape (Slim).

[regine]

As above.

Or put in a simpler way, most Thais are racist.

Shouldn't you change your ridiculous post to read "most Thai women are racist" as the OP isn't having issues with Thai men, just Thai women.

[eek]

Sure might be the case at times geekfreaklover, but personally Im slim, toned, apparently attractive (so im told), and take pride in what i wear. I think your comment is too narrow tbh.

[regine]

kurnell, sections of Thai women do seem to be very competitive, and/or (out of habit or whatever) do seem to weigh other women up. Men for the most parts only see the general nice side and smiles. Wonder why eh. ;p

I completely agree with this. It's a woman issue. Women from any country can be catty, even when you're dealing with your own race, culture, etc.

[DragonQuest]

I think your just being paranoid , dont worry about it, who cares if they look? If they look it only means their jealous because they want what you got!

[2unique]

As above.

Or put in a simpler way, most Thais are racist.

Shouldn't you change your ridiculous post to read "most Thai women are racist" as the OP isn't having issues with Thai men, just Thai women.

I don't think the post is ridiculous! It does suggest a mindset that relates to possibly why the op is getting this reaction. Whether by ignorance or nationalism a large number of Thais are racist.

There are a large number of "farangs" living here that will make any number of excuses for Thai people rather than face up to the fact that they may be less than perfect.

I'm surprised the op hasn't received the if you don't like it go back home card as yet.

As a black man happily married to a Thai woman with a child who's been subjected to racism from fellow 3 year olds I dare you to tell me I'm wrong, bitter or delusional.

It is what it is. Every race has its share of racists, some places deal with it Asia mostly doesn't.

We love our non racist varied and mixed friendship group, the rest get to miss out on this fantastic group of people. As in if they don't like us, their problem never ours.

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[regine]

As above.

Or put in a simpler way, most Thais are racist.

Shouldn't you change your ridiculous post to read "most Thai women are racist" as the OP isn't having issues with Thai men, just Thai women.

I don't think the post is ridiculous! It does suggest a mindset that relates to possibly why the op is getting this reaction. Whether by ignorance or nationalism a large number of Thais are racist.

There are a large number of "farangs" living here that will make any number of excuses for Thai people rather than face up to the fact that they may be less than perfect.

I'm surprised the op hasn't received the if you don't like it go back home card as yet.

As a black man happily married to a Thai woman with a child who's been subjected to racism from fellow 3 year olds I dare you to tell me I'm wrong, bitter or delusional.

It is what it is. Every race has its share of racists, some places deal with it Asia mostly doesn't.

We love our non racist varied and mixed friendship group, the rest get to miss out on this fantastic group of people. As in if they don't like us, their problem never ours.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

I find the fact that you as a black male supporting racial generalisations quite sad. So, I assume then as a black male that you have all the stereotypical black male characteristics? You take no offence when people generalise you because of your race?

So, in your opinion it's not wrong to say that a large number of Thais are racist. So it must be okay when people say that a large number of black men are not educated, have no job, have multiple children with multiple partners, are involved in gangs, etc. Same thing isn't it? I'm not saying all black men, just most, or a large number at least.

[samsiam]

What about the black soccer players that recently were in the paper claiming they had to work as giglos here and put up with woman paying them for sex to get by.

[regine]

As a black man happily married to a Thai woman with a child who's been subjected to racism from fellow 3 year olds I dare you to tell me I'm wrong, bitter or delusional.

Children are brats and can be downright mean, as most people know. They pick on each other because on the clothes they wear, colour of hair, how much they weigh, if they wear glasses, and yes, even the colour of their skin. Is it racism? I don't know what your child experienced.

Thai culture is different as well. Giving someone the nickname "fatty" in Western culture is offensive, it's not in Thai culture. Picking on people because they are different is fair game.

To a 3 year old, saying "I'm not playing with you because you're black" is the same thing as saying "I'm not playing with you because you have red hair", or "because you're fat", or "because you wear glasses", or "because you smell". But who knows, maybe your 3 year old's peers do have a race based agenda going on in the playground.

[2unique]

As above.

Or put in a simpler way, most Thais are racist.

Shouldn't you change your ridiculous post to read "most Thai women are racist" as the OP isn't having issues with Thai men, just Thai women.

I don't think the post is ridiculous! It does suggest a mindset that relates to possibly why the op is getting this reaction. Whether by ignorance or nationalism a large number of Thais are racist.

There are a large number of "farangs" living here that will make any number of excuses for Thai people rather than face up to the fact that they may be less than perfect.

I'm surprised the op hasn't received the if you don't like it go back home card as yet.

As a black man happily married to a Thai woman with a child who's been subjected to racism from fellow 3 year olds I dare you to tell me I'm wrong, bitter or delusional.

It is what it is. Every race has its share of racists, some places deal with it Asia mostly doesn't.

We love our non racist varied and mixed friendship group, the rest get to miss out on this fantastic group of people. As in if they don't like us, their problem never ours.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

I find the fact that you as a black male supporting racial generalisations quite sad. So, I assume then as a black male that you have all the stereotypical black male characteristics? You take no offence when people generalise you because of your race?

So, in your opinion it's not wrong to say that a large number of Thais are racist. So it must be okay when people say that a large number of black men are not educated, have no job, have multiple children with multiple partners, are involved in gangs, etc. Same thing isn't it? I'm not saying all black men, just most, or a large number at least.

Feel free to point out where I supported racial generalizations - you're response is so far away from what I posted its incredible! I don't support any type of sweeping generalization.

Also point out where I said it would be okay to walk up to any Thai and assume they were racist. Then point out where I support that it is ok to judge or pigeon hole a person by stereotype or generalization.

Can't? Didn't think so, feel free to apologize. Trying to make a point by disingenuous misrepresentation of what I said is "sad"

Also while we're here - Since when does a large number indicate most or all? Volume doesn't indicate percentage does it? A stereotype wouldn't be a stereotype without it occurring in numbers. Doesn't make it correct it just makes it a stereotype. For you to give the selection of examples you did re black males means at some point that has been the perception of more than 1 person.

BTW I don't expect an apology, it just wouldn't be TV! But do read my post in the context it was intended as in ridiculous was too strong a word for the post in question. Then consider you may have been tilting at windmills despite me being uneducated and involved in a gang with my multiple children because I have no job.

Sent from Android please excuse errors in type or judgement

[regine]

Feel free to point out where I supported racial generalizations - you're response is so far away from what I posted its incredible! I don't support any type of sweeping generalization.

Saying "a large number of Thais are racist" is a racial generalization. You supported it as you're the one that said it.

Also while we're here - Since when does a large number indicate most or all? Volume doesn't indicate percentage does it? A stereotype wouldn't be a stereotype without it occurring in numbers. Doesn't make it correct it just makes it a stereotype. For you to give the selection of examples you did re black males means at some point that has been the perception of more than 1 person.

One quantity relative to another quantity is a percentage. Large number of Thais to the total number of Thais would be a large percent, whereas a small number of Thais to the total number of Thais would be a small percent. Over 50% would mean most.

I'm sure if you meant something else you would have said something along the lines of "a large number of Thais, but only a fraction of a percent of the total population!".

[2unique]

Feel free to point out where I supported racial generalizations - you're response is so far away from what I posted its incredible! I don't support any type of sweeping generalization.

Saying "a large number of Thais are racist" is a racial generalization. You supported it as you're the one that said it.

Also while we're here - Since when does a large number indicate most or all? Volume doesn't indicate percentage does it? A stereotype wouldn't be a stereotype without it occurring in numbers. Doesn't make it correct it just makes it a stereotype. For you to give the selection of examples you did re black males means at some point that has been the perception of more than 1 person.

One quantity relative to another quantity is a percentage. Large number of Thais to the total number of Thais would be a large percent, whereas a small number of Thais to the total number of Thais would be a small percent. Over 50% would mean most.

I'm sure if you meant something else you would have said something along the lines of "a large number of Thais, but only a fraction of a percent of the total population!".

And if I'd known how precious people would get I still wouldn't have jumped through that many hoops .

to clarify as a word was misse- A large number doesn't equate to +50% and its still not a racial generalization as much as you'd like it to be.

Given that you think it is, what then gives you the right to say that I should hold myself to a higher standard because supposedly I must identify with being stereotyped? That's like saying someone who has been abused shouldn't perpetuate abuse. Or were you making an inverse racial generalization...

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