Do You Get Dirty Looks From Thai Women?

[10ten]

I really hope this doesn't ruin your experience of Thailand. In terms of what you've experienced, obviously no-one can say for sure what's behind them (and I wouldn't deny that Thai people can be prone to racism), but a few things leap to mind, so here's my 2 satangs worth:

1. Bangkok is not a particularly friendly city any more. When I was little, it was much more like a huge village: Baiyoke 1 was still the tallest building in the city (it's only about the same height as Emporium), taxis were all driven by retired old grandpas who would take you anywhere and talk your ear off on the way and your day to day life ran as much on a system of good will and interpersonal relationships as on commerce. Bangkok has grown and globalised since then and the people have more and more become anonymous "big city" people who keep their eyes fixed on their iPhones, avoid any sort of human interaction and, I feel, have lost a lot of happiness. I don't think this is me looking back to a golden past that never existed (and actually, I think we've gained a lot in other ways since that time too) and I don't think it's just the change in perspective from childhood to adulthood (although obviously I was too young to see the bars and nightlife back then) - I really think that quality of social interactions and the amount of contentment in Bangkok has deteriorated hugely just over the 30 years that I've been alive. That all adds up to a lot more "stink-eye" to go around.

2. I may be wrong about this, but I feel that the perception of black people in Bangkok has declined over the past decade or so. When I was an undergraduate, an Ethiopian friend of mine visited Bangkok - she met my family, I showed her around town, took her shopping/out to eat/etc... Her perception was that, after arriving from China, she could walk down the street in Bangkok without people staring at her, she could go into a shop without encountering hostility, she could joke with Thais and expect to be met with giggling and laughter. Since then, though, I feel that Africans have developed a reputation (at least in my part of Bangkok) for being either drug dealers (if male and especially if Nigerian) or the sort of prostitutes who work near the bus stop in Nana (if female), and I think that unfortunately this has been generalised to all black people. So, if you are a black person arriving in Bangkok today, you're frankly not starting with the same clean slate my friend had when she came.

3. There are a few things in your text that don't strike me as particularly being related to your colour or even the fact that you're not Thai. Thais are not sensitive about commenting on appearance, and you shouldn't be sensitive about receiving those comments. If you have put on weight, a Thai will tell you to your face; if you are picking up a top that is too small for you, a Thai will tell you it's not going to fit. Seriously, don't worry about this - it's not meant to demean or belittle, it's either a neutral comment based on the evidence that is right in front of them (in this case, to save you both time trying on clothes that won't fit), or (if a significant amount of weight) an expression of concern from a friend/family member who is worried about your increasing size/decreasing attractiveness, or sometimes just as a greeting/conversation opener - it just happens to be about an issue that is highly sensitive for Westerners.

4. There seems to be a fashion for bitchiness at the moment - I really don't know why. There have always been little Thai princesses, but right now everybody seems to want to be a "Sassy girl" and seem to have modeled themselves on a นางเอก/นางร้าย paradigm. I don't have an explanation for this, but I hope it ends soon.

To top this off with one final piece of pop-psychology, I really think the a fundamental characteristic that is deeply ingrained within Thai people is playfulness. If you are good company (and this is likely to be based as much on your differences to Thai people as on your similarities - Thai people are curious, expect lots of questions) and quick to laugh, Thai people will accept just about anything. Obviously you will have your own point of view, but from a Thai perspective, whatever the preconceptions may be about black people in the abstract, they can be put aside in seconds if you're fun to be around. Anyway, as I said, I hope you enjoy your time in Thailand - it's not good for either you or us if you spend your time here miserable

[mooris7]

Most of the black people or African community in Bangkok are known for selling drugs on suk soi 11 area. This could be the stereo type you are falling victim to.

[ongchart]

Maybe they're jealous of your curves?

;-)

I think most Thais are friendly - next time someone stares at you just smile back. Most of them will feel embarrassed and return a sheepish

smile. Try it. Take it easy and enjoy your stay.

[snake24]

I really hope this doesn't ruin your experience of Thailand. In terms of what you've experienced, obviously no-one can say for sure what's behind them (and I wouldn't deny that Thai people can be prone to racism), but a few things leap to mind, so here's my 2 satangs worth:

2. I may be wrong about this, but I feel that the perception of black people in Bangkok has declined over the past decade or so. When I was an undergraduate, an Ethiopian friend of mine visited Bangkok - she met my family, I showed her around town, took her shopping/out to eat/etc... Her perception was that, after arriving from China, she could walk down the street in Bangkok without people staring at her, she could go into a shop without encountering hostility, she could joke with Thais and expect to be met with giggling and laughter. Since then, though, I feel that Africans have developed a reputation (at least in my part of Bangkok) for being either drug dealers (if male and especially if Nigerian) or the sort of prostitutes who work near the bus stop in Nana (if female), and I think that unfortunately this has been generalised to all black people. So, if you are a black person arriving in Bangkok today, you're frankly not starting with the same clean slate my friend had when she came.

This might sound offensive but it's not meant to be PC and has some truth to a certain extent. This isn't an isolated type of thing. It occurs in other countries like china say the guangzhou area where lots of africans go to and there's an increase in crime, drugs and prostitution. It happens in Europe too like how africans say somalians were sent to sweden and rapes increased and well there seems to be many examples where these africans appear crimes, violence etc increase and it is correct that there are many african prostitutes and drug dealers on sukhumvit soi 3 or around there and of course ppl are going to stereotype you in that manner if so many of you act in a certain way. Applies to everyone. Try saying you are from china, look chinese, are chinese etc and ppl are just going assume you are rude, boorish, spit everywhere etc you need to sometimes try to prove perceptions wrong or you can fight back. Not going to say africans or black ppl are predisposed to crime but i suppose it is because the majority of them come from poor countries or poorer sectors of society like black americans so that's why they behave like that. There hope i didn't offend the western PC crowd here. It gets really touchy especially when it involves black people but you can make the racist asian jokes like chink and flied lice and squinty eyes.

[douginbkk]

I would like some advice from the women comnunity in Bangkok because I keep getting dirty looks and I don't know what to do. I'm a black woman in her thirties, quite curvy and trying to follow the example by dressing smart and not scruffy or sexy. I only know scraps of Thai but I try to smile and be polite as best as I can. The Thai men stare but it's mostly the Thai women that look at me up and down like I'm some kind of monster. It happens in the street, on the BTS, evetywhere I go. Some are plain rude to me when I want to buy something. I've read on the internet that it was bad to be dark in Thailand. Is it true or is it something I'm doing wrong? I'm on my own in Bangkok and I have no one to give me some guidance. Any kind of advice from Thai or foreign women would be much appreciated. Tell me what is happening, it's really getting to me 

I don't agree with many of the posts on here about Thais looking down on you simply because of your skin color. Thais associate dark skin with laborers or rice farmers daughters. This is especially so in large cities like bangkok where much of the population consists of affluent ethnic Chinese (affluent by Thai standards). Thais can differentiate between black women and dark women from elsewhere in the world including Thailand. However they cannot differentiate between black women from say, North America and Nigeria. Black people from Africa, over the past few years have been making headlines in BKK especially regarding what people here call "Nigerian" scams. Theses scams on Thai women are extremely rampant here, especially those started through the local dating sites. I read Thai and these scams are so much reported and talked about through popular Thai web boards such as pantip.com and I think that this is your main problem. I mean, have you ever walked down Petchaburi Road in the Pratunam area or Nana, and seen the number of Africans loitering there in the evenings? It's all very negative looking and you can sort of fathom why many Thai women would have a negative view of black women. Like I mention, they can't differentiate between black people from Africa, or even "farangs" from say Europe or America.

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[Jackson86]

Once, a Thai girl who is drunk whispered "one shot..." to my ears though I didn't care about her and she left later on.

[kevozman1]

No

edit: Oh a necro >_>

[yingyo]

I like the *tsk* sucking of teeth when they notice you.

I always tsk twice in return without breaking stride or looking. The second one a big long funny one.

If I have to return the same way, in a shop or whatever they're usually head down embarrassed.

Just jealous resentfulness, mainly done subconsciously.

[muchogra]

Yeah, you get that when you are cheap while pretending you are from some advanced country!

[yingyo]

No need to write a reply that would make that look stupid.

Whoops.

[ChrisB87]

Always

[Ajaan]

I like the *tsk* sucking of teeth when they notice you.

I always tsk twice in return without breaking stride or looking. The second one a big long funny one.

If I have to return the same way, in a shop or whatever they're usually head down embarrassed.

Just jealous resentfulness, mainly done subconsciously.

I'm not aware of the full context in which you're hearing it, but note that it's possible you're sometimes misinterpreting the "tsk tsk" sound. In the West (at least in the US), it's used to show disapproval or to "scold" someone. This is not the case in Southeast Asia at all.

In Thailand, Laos and Cambodia--and possibly other countries--the "tsk" sound is used to convey shock, awe, disbelief, etc. It is not inherently bad, though it certainly can be...it all depends on the context in which it is used.

[Bikkii]

I only get dirty looks when I tell them what I would like to do with them given a day or two.

Generally no, normally the opposite but I am a baby here, only in my 30's.

[sbk]

You do realize this is the ladies forum and as such it is FOR women and not about women cheers.

[LaraC]

I only get dirty looks when I tell them what I would like to do with them given a day or two.

Generally no, normally the opposite but I am a baby here, only in my 30's.

Oh dont worry even when you are twice your age and your belly hangs so far over that you cant see your feet let alone your d... you will still get the same handsum man treatment.

But as SBK says, maybe you should read again what the topic is about..just for clarity like...

[sobe ceo]

I dunno, it seems natural that people will stare at something they seem alien.

I wonder if the poster has had a better time getting on' in Thailand.

i'm American and I got stared at in Africa tanzania and zanzibar, and I'm African American. In HK no stares, and i can understand if I get stares in bkk but that could be for any reason, personal style differences, i very well look different I'm sure… but thats just human nature. i realise I'm in a different country where they are not used to seeing so many different races and types.

anyhow hope the poster is doing well

[sobe ceo]

Most Thais can't tell the difference between Africans and Black British and up until a few years ago were incredulous that black people came from outside Africa or America.

Seriously? God I can't believe it!

To answer eek and 2unique, I'm a mixed white/black african with a fairly dark but not ebony skin. My father was Congolese and my mother is French and very white. I think I should have been darker because of my father but it didn't happen (although I have to be careful at the beach because then I burn like a toast) I spent 12 years in England before coming to Bangkok to do a teacher training course, in Silom to be exact. My students were intrigued about my skin colour, but in a nice, amusing way. It was like a mixed african background with parents from different countries was a completely alien idea to them.

I'm still in Silom at the moment and now I realise the stares are mostly from those young, gorgeous white office workers in the mornings BTS. But there was also the older girl at the bakery that was giving me such a sour face every time I walked in I stopped going there ... The women selling clothes on Silom, frowning with distaste and pointing at their rails, saying 'small, small'. Well I know I can't fit their tiny dresses and jeans, but I can fit some of the baggy tops and hell I'm going to buy them! The look on their faces when I walk by wearing the top is absolutely priceless. It's like "Gosh, did you see that? She can wear it!' The women at food stalls behave like I disturb them greatly from an important business when I come close ... The fashionable girls at the mall in Victory Monument smirked and stared when I was looking for business clothes and just on thursday, that very pretty, petite little girl in MBK did a pose and said scornfully 'What? For you?' when I asked if she had size 4 low top Converse. It was for me, there was nobody else in the shop and I couldn't help looking at her like she was stupid and she noticed, that wasn't awkward ... I don't know if she felt threatened by my colour, my money or just because I interrupted her conversation with her boyfriend sitting next to her but her total lack of manners infuriated me, I thought of doing something very brutal and spiky with her perfect hair ... It can't be my looks, I'm pretty average with enough BMI to share with a skinny thai girl. But I must agree when eek said it's not only skin colour. It's like I keep receiving nasty superficial attitude by women trying to impose their good looks on me. I mean even the cleaners here are perfect. Do they expect me to admit I'm physically inferior (big, black, strange?) and be a meek, supplicating wreck when I come to ask for something? I seriously have much better things to do with my time, sorry girls!

There's been other incidents and sometimes I just want to scream 'Yeah, I'm different. Get on with it!' I'm thinking about getting the T-shirt done in English and in Thai. Or maybe I should try something like 'Look a plane!' and point at the sky to get the attention off me?

I'm surprised that eek is having such reception in Chiang Mai. Everyone I talked to told me Chiang Mai is much nicer and relaxed than Bangkok and the people there are lovely. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll think of tumbleweed rolling by next time I get 'the look' and try not to laugh out loud , that might do the trick. I always try to make lemonade when life give me lemons instead of sucking the lemons, it taste better. Maybe you could suggest those ladies to do the same and stop giving attitude to you?

Sorry about the sarcastic, dry remarks. It's my way of venting my frustration. I don't mean to offend anyone

Well what I am seeing here has a lot to do with you shopping for clothes. I think you need to understand that size and being fat is just something that is talked about in the open. They are not trying to be offensive by telling you its too small. People calling you big or fat is not considered offensive in this culture and I think that takes a lot to get used to for people from the west.

[sobe ceo]

ur right, the people around my bldg notice my weight and comment on it lol " u fat Nid Noy" or "u Suay slimmer beautiful" took me a little bit to get used to...

[jamiesilver]

yes its true - unfortunately Thais look down on Indian and African - its certainly a racist country and they will quite often admit to it.
Sometimes i know Thais dont like the above because they say they are rude. which in some cases could be because sometimes speaking loud to Thais is considered rude.
I dont know for sure, but one thing is that Thais are not very educated in worldly matters and are incredibly xenophobic, so just ignore it or suffer in silence. it pays to have a thick skin in Thailand.

The white chinese are racist towards the daker skinned isaaan girls, then they in turn are racist towards african or indian - LOL - they just don't get Karma here do they?

[NancyL]

Can't they ban men from this forum? I've re-read this entire thread -- which was started a couple years ago and I can't see where the guys have done anything but derail it. In fact there should be a new thread on the General Forum under the same title "Do You Get Dirty Looks from Thai Women?"

Of course, most would be so obvious they wouldn't know.

[fitnesspm]

"quite curvy" ? i'm guessing you're fat. Thais look down on FAT westerners. All my Thai girlfriends in the past, shake their heads and we usually have a good laugh. Every time I head back to Australia, it's a shock to see so many FAT people around. FAT = you don't care about yourself. If you can't look at yourself in the mirror (i was chubby once and avoided looking at myself), there is a major issue! It's more of a problem with women cause it's biologically programmed for them to look good to they can attract a mate!

[EmptyHead]

All the time.

[EmptyHead]

"quite curvy" ? i'm guessing you're fat. Thais look down on FAT westerners. All my Thai girlfriends in the past, shake their heads and we usually have a good laugh. Every time I head back to Australia, it's a shock to see so many FAT people around. FAT = you don't care about yourself. If you can't look at yourself in the mirror (i was chubby once and avoided looking at myself), there is a major issue! It's more of a problem with women cause it's biologically programmed for them to look good to they can attract a mate!

As far as genetic programming is concerned, most men are attracted to women with curvy wide hips (fertile child bearing hips) rather than skinny snake hips, regardless of if they are even aware of that or not. We don't think, "Oh there's a musclular girl who likes to do sit-ups, I like her".

Aside from that, fat chicks get plenty, if not more than skinny girls, mostly due to them having higher estrongen levels than skinny girls.

Thank you and goodnight.

[Happy Grumpy]

As above.

Or put in a simpler way, most Thais are racist.

No doubt.

But it's interesting. I work with a 23 yr old blonde girl, blue eyes, nice smile, lovely happy character. She had to leave her last job because of being bullied and harassed by the Thai women there. Gets dirty looks everyday when just out and about. Like 'Who does she think she is'.

[Kalbo]

It just that they are not familiar with dark skinned "farang", so they are just curious to identify where you come from. Thai people are usually nice to foreigners esp "farang" or westerner. For uneducated Thais, they thought that all "farang" have pale skin.

Some stereotypes of dark skinned people are negative, but it was just the way they grow up with.

I think Thais like pale skin because most of them have dark skin. Vice versa, most caucasian men I know like dark skin woman, just because it's rare at where they live.

Thai people are not racist. They are usually nice to foreigners. They are just afraid to have to speaker English to foreigners. English is not Thai official language like neighboring countries which were ruled by English speaking countries.

As an Asian men lived in USA for 10 years, I can definitely tell you that I faced a lot worse treament from Americans that you did here.

You have to be strong once you stay outside your country and adapt to the environment. Don't try to change someone else because you will be dissapointed. Try to change your thought and attitude, you will be happier. ..

Neighboring countries ruled by English speaking countries ? Well, you were correct for about 50% of them. I suggest you revisit your history books.

[gfields54]

Thanks everyone for your comments. They shed a light on many things.

It's a shame that the Thais would think that dark means poor and uneducated. The majority of them are dark and must have their heritage tracking back to the fields centuries ago. Surely they should be proud of their hard work? What's the logic for a tropical nation to want to be white? Not amount of product or coverage or working in a nice indoor job is going to dissipate their dark colouring.

I have met some lovely people in Thailand and I don't want to put the entire population in the same basket. But I was having a bad day yesterday and the unfriendly look on the people's faces when I went to get some noodle soup at the street corner was just the cherry on the cake. I usually don't care what people think about me. Like I said it's mostly women so it might be a female thing too, something that I'm doing without realising. I've seen only a handful of black women so far in Bangkok (white caucasian on the other hand are very common). Maybe the thai women can't believe their eyes when they see my curves, skin colour and afro hair ... Surprisingly, a couple of Thais told me I looked indian and were quite puzzled when I explained I wasn't. So maybe that's the problem, I look Indian. Sounds like Indians are not particularly welcome in Thailand either.

Anyway, I'll try not to let it get to me and just carry on with my life as I did before. Will smile even harder if I have to!

One thing that has helped me ,learn the language, I am still learning, but it freaks the Thais out when , you can understand them and speak to them. Most thai are really good people, but some have old school ideas,

[Lukecan]

Yes they think you are a slave, thats why they look at you with disgust. Unfortunately thais hate being politically correct so they show their real emotions.

All I get from Thais is admiration, because I'm a 25 year old 6'0 tall white middle eastern guy who is muscular Unfortunately thais are very superficial.

[nonb]

Thais are racist!

[Typingdog]

I would like some advice from the women comnunity in Bangkok because I keep getting dirty looks and I don't know what to do. I'm a black woman in her thirties, quite curvy and trying to follow the example by dressing smart and not scruffy or sexy. I only know scraps of Thai but I try to smile and be polite as best as I can. The Thai men stare but it's mostly the Thai women that look at me up and down like I'm some kind of monster. It happens in the street, on the BTS, evetywhere I go. Some are plain rude to me when I want to buy something. I've read on the internet that it was bad to be dark in Thailand. Is it true or is it something I'm doing wrong? I'm on my own in Bangkok and I have no one to give me some guidance. Any kind of advice from Thai or foreign women would be much appreciated. Tell me what is happening, it's really getting to me 

You are a woman right. I am sorry that people in my country make you feel that. Even I am thai people with fair skin but I still get treat bad by customer service. I think it because I dress cheap lol . Thai people tend to judge people from how they dress. You gotta use brandname bag or dress nice like hiso people to get respect which is the opposite how I dress lol Yep! I know it's bad .But I take it easy and smile cuz I think maybe those people have bad day.

One time I was in market. Mbk night market. And I was eyeing on the cream white maxi dress. And I think I wanna buy it. So I wanna know the texture of the cloths and I touch it. The owner come out and quite angry. Said" don't touch it, it's expensive" almost got tear in my eyes lol . If she said that she doesn't want to get it dirty I still can understand.

Ok so cheer up! And sorry again

Other case is you are very exotic on the good way

I was in hair salon. And one black woman come inside. People comment that her waist very very slim but got damn big ass.

I think that is compliment in Thai way hehe I know it's rude.

[Dassie]

Converse, I've been told by my Thai gfs with 'darker' skin that it was, and still is, the norm to be discriminated against for this physical trait alone. I agree with all of the other posters that it sounds outrageous. But this latent racism it is very much a part of Thai culture. I have a light olive complexion which most Thais seem to like. I watch them fawn all over a very pale farang gf of mine whenever we're out for a massage. She says she does find it irritating, and she too doesn't understand the fascination for pale skin. I can recall twisting myself in to knots trying to 'fit in' by dressing more modestly than I would at home. I even attempted changing my style to 'blend in' amongst the gorgeous Thai women. Eventually it dawned on me that I could still look attractive and stylish in my own right by just dressing to please myself. Loving my curves, height, big curly hair, big feet and all! I'm far happier now for it. I too get snarky, withering and downright catty glances from Thai girls generally directly after they've eyed up my bf! LOL But, alas I cannot prevent that from happening. However I can, and do, make a point of looking as gorgeous as I can possibly make myself if I know that there'll be any Thai ladies at an event we've been invited to. Is it shallow of me? Maybe. But I like to show that us farang girls are every bit as desirable and beautiful as the local girls too. Call it what you like. I will make no apologies for that.

But back to your original topic...I'm no expert but I can only recommend it may smooth your way to life in Thailand if you can make friends with any nice, friendly Thais you meet, and perhaps try to learn a little more language. Just another suggestion is to check out chickynet.com for local events where you can meet like minded farang ladies and Thai ladies wanting to befriend farang women. I noticed that the place and the people seemed a lot more open and warm once I pushed myself to learn to speak Thai.

All the best to you Miss Converse ☺