How To Get A Little Extra Out Of A Suzuki Apv Carry 1.6L Engine ?

[Nakonamath]

Hi

We have a 2005 1.6L AUT Suzuki APV, Standard LPG system

The factory settings give 91 BHP,

the car is a 8 person seater, but it is heavy fully packed, and this means, high RPMs,

How can i pull a little extra horses out, and where ?

I am a familly father, and it is a familly van, im not going to change the head and plane the xxx, change crankshaft install turbo ect.

Im looking for a first step tuning.

i have been on the subject for some time, and it include,

Remove airbox, and replace with open suction filter,

Change exchaust,

ECU Piggybag

What am i missing ?

Some write about removing the Catalytic, other say it will have negative effect, i read about some performance Cats which should improove the backpreasure, and give more power, however i only read the text, i have no experience with this.

Special power plugs ?

Special Oils ?

Smaller wheels, larger wheels ?

I have talked with some Thai shops, but, as i am new on all this, i am a too easy Pray, as i have NO idea if the 10k exhaust is not as good as a 5k, and so on.

PS. i live in Bangsaen

Jack

Jack

[culicine]

Basic mods on a petrol engine yield modest increases in HP You would be looking at 15-20K baht for exhaust / intake mods that might give you 5 HP. There is a fear of a loss of torque across the low / mid range with these changes too. The torque is what you need when hauling many passengers. Open air intakes can be bad, especially in this climate as they tend to draw in more hot air from under the hood. This less dense air produces less HP. I assume you can get piggybacks for it, such as greddy e-manage. They might help a little with basic mods - maybe an extra 5 HP.

Have you ever run the vehicle on petrol, and not on the LPG? Is there any change in performance?

I know you don't want to go turbo, but it's the quickest way to produce the power you want. You would need fairly radical normally aspirated mods to produce the same power and could turn out to be more expensive.

I had a quote for 70-90K baht for a turbo kit for my honda civic 2.0 several years ago. That includes a piggyback. The engine would be safe on low boost. I've also seen turbo kits put on suzuki swifts / jazzes, so it should be doable.

A swift, not thailand

This is a turbo jazz from thailand

[VocalNeal]

Camshaft? Isky Torquer Cam about $150 in the US. Or practice meditation between gears changes?

[Nakonamath]

Basic mods on a petrol engine yield modest increases in HP You would be looking at 15-20K baht for exhaust / intake mods that might give you 5 HP. There is a fear of a loss of torque across the low / mid range with these changes too. The torque is what you need when hauling many passengers. Open air intakes can be bad, especially in this climate as they tend to draw in more hot air from under the hood. This less dense air produces less HP. I assume you can get piggybacks for it, such as greddy e-manage. They might help a little with basic mods - maybe an extra 5 HP.

Have you ever run the vehicle on petrol, and not on the LPG? Is there any change in performance?

I know you don't want to go turbo, but it's the quickest way to produce the power you want. You would need fairly radical normally aspirated mods to produce the same power and could turn out to be more expensive.

I had a quote for 70-90K baht for a turbo kit for my honda civic 2.0 several years ago. That includes a piggyback. The engine would be safe on low boost. I've also seen turbo kits put on suzuki swifts / jazzes, so it should be doable.

A swift, not thailand

This is a turbo jazz from thailand

[media=]

The reason why i have looked away of turbo is the lag of knowledge, i worry i ruin the engine, i have heard /read, about that before, and maybe it is too much worry out of too little, i dont know ?

I have seen other in thailand installed Turbo, i have tried to email him but he didnt respond. is it possible to install turbo on allmost any engine ?

I read as you write the turbo is the best trick, But why cant i just use some electric unit to force air into the air filter box and gain from that ?

Jack

[Nakonamath]

Camshaft? Isky Torquer Cam about $150 in the US. Or practice meditation between gears changes?

I have no knowledge about this, it seems as a too big change to the engine, ? what are my risks ? the car is out of warranty.

the mentioned parts above, are all without touch of the engine.

Any suggetions ?

Jack

[culicine]

Basic mods on a petrol engine yield modest increases in HP You would be looking at 15-20K baht for exhaust / intake mods that might give you 5 HP. There is a fear of a loss of torque across the low / mid range with these changes too. The torque is what you need when hauling many passengers. Open air intakes can be bad, especially in this climate as they tend to draw in more hot air from under the hood. This less dense air produces less HP. I assume you can get piggybacks for it, such as greddy e-manage. They might help a little with basic mods - maybe an extra 5 HP.

Have you ever run the vehicle on petrol, and not on the LPG? Is there any change in performance?

I know you don't want to go turbo, but it's the quickest way to produce the power you want. You would need fairly radical normally aspirated mods to produce the same power and could turn out to be more expensive.

I had a quote for 70-90K baht for a turbo kit for my honda civic 2.0 several years ago. That includes a piggyback. The engine would be safe on low boost. I've also seen turbo kits put on suzuki swifts / jazzes, so it should be doable.

A swift, not thailand

This is a turbo jazz from thailand

[media=]

The reason why i have looked away of turbo is the lag of knowledge, i worry i ruin the engine, i have heard /read, about that before, and maybe it is too much worry out of too little, i dont know ?

I have seen other in thailand installed Turbo, i have tried to email him but he didnt respond. is it possible to install turbo on allmost any engine ?

I read as you write the turbo is the best trick, But why cant i just use some electric unit to force air into the air filter box and gain from that ?

Jack

I think lag wont be so important on a small motor on low boost. Of course any forced induction stresses the engine, but it seems about 6-8 psi is ok without modifying internal parts. In my village there is even a chevrolet zafira with a turbo, and I've also seen a dodge neon with one. I'm pretty sure a good garage could customise a turbo kit, as most of the kits here seems to be of the customised type, rather than a "hks kit" etc.

I have seen small electric motors that are supposed to force more air into the engine. I highly doubt these are very effective, or more people would be raving about them.

having said all this, there are some posters here who know a lot more about turbo applications than me, so I will leave it over to them to give you more information.

[Nakonamath]

Basic mods on a petrol engine yield modest increases in HP You would be looking at 15-20K baht for exhaust / intake mods that might give you 5 HP. There is a fear of a loss of torque across the low / mid range with these changes too. The torque is what you need when hauling many passengers. Open air intakes can be bad, especially in this climate as they tend to draw in more hot air from under the hood. This less dense air produces less HP. I assume you can get piggybacks for it, such as greddy e-manage. They might help a little with basic mods - maybe an extra 5 HP.

Have you ever run the vehicle on petrol, and not on the LPG? Is there any change in performance?

I know you don't want to go turbo, but it's the quickest way to produce the power you want. You would need fairly radical normally aspirated mods to produce the same power and could turn out to be more expensive.

I had a quote for 70-90K baht for a turbo kit for my honda civic 2.0 several years ago. That includes a piggyback. The engine would be safe on low boost. I've also seen turbo kits put on suzuki swifts / jazzes, so it should be doable.

A swift, not thailand

This is a turbo jazz from thailand

[media=]

The reason why i have looked away of turbo is the lag of knowledge, i worry i ruin the engine, i have heard /read, about that before, and maybe it is too much worry out of too little, i dont know ?

I have seen other in thailand installed Turbo, i have tried to email him but he didnt respond. is it possible to install turbo on allmost any engine ?

I read as you write the turbo is the best trick, But why cant i just use some electric unit to force air into the air filter box and gain from that ?

Jack

I think lag wont be so important on a small motor on low boost. Of course any forced induction stresses the engine, but it seems about 6-8 psi is ok without modifying internal parts. In my village there is even a chevrolet zafira with a turbo, and I've also seen a dodge neon with one. I'm pretty sure a good garage could customise a turbo kit, as most of the kits here seems to be of the customised type, rather than a "hks kit" etc.

I have seen small electric motors that are supposed to force more air into the engine. I highly doubt these are very effective, or more people would be raving about them.

having said all this, there are some posters here who know a lot more about turbo applications than me, so I will leave it over to them to give you more information.

to be honest, one of my top search words for my search for power have been "turbo", but so far only found 1, who acctually instaleld it.

I am very interrested in getting more out of the engine as it should have been 1.8 or 2.0 in such car from the beginning.

1 thing is important, we do trips to Koh chang several times a year, the midification should not have a negative effect for hill climbing......

I did read about the performance cam last night, it seems applyable, as the engine i have is very well known type G16A, the block which basicly have been used the last 10 years +

my budget is around 50k as i want to update interior aswell, hopefully can do in less, but who wouldent wish for free HP :-)

Jack

[aussiebebe]

Hi, you mentioned you just want first-step tuning yet have a 'standard LPG system' - that's the first place I'd suggest investigating. Is it a multi-point system? Everyone complains about LPG power loss and has their own theory but a multi-point (if you don't have one) may be one solution.

[culicine]

Hi, you mentioned you just want first-step tuning yet have a 'standard LPG system' - that's the first place I'd suggest investigating. Is it a multi-point system? Everyone complains about LPG power loss and has their own theory but a multi-point (if you don't have one) may be one solution.

Also I hope the OP has been keeping the LPG system tuned with regular services and getting filters changed. Even the best systems can rob 5% of HP, so maybe a suggestion is to run on petrol when hauling many passengers, and lpg when with 1-2 passengers. You can do quite a bit with 50K, but not so much if he wants to upgrade the interior too.

[VocalNeal]

as the engine i have is very well known type G16A, the block which basicly have been used the last 10 years +

I was driving one 1600 cc Suzuki in Malaysia in 1986. If I'm right that is 26 years.

On that note a friend races or used to in Classic saloons in UK. He championed a 1650 Lotus Cortina for years but switched to BMW 1800 on the basis if you can't beat e'm join e'm. Why? Well aparently one is allowed to increase the engine by X% so 1558 Ford goes to 16xx. BMW 1800 was allowed 19xxcc.

This allowed the use of a 320 block which was available as a spare part from BMW as it was the same 40 years on and not searching for an old Ford block.

It all seems new but.....

Edited May 13, 2012 by VocalNeal

[funcat]

I'm absolutely no expert on this,but I have a bad feeling here....If you can do some "plug in" changes that will be OK,but going for turbo staff can be dangerous to the engine...and you already have the LPG installed....

Friend of mine had an aftermarket turbo kit installed on his G-wagon....he blown the engine soon after!

Changing exhaust system is probably OK,but if the engine is controlled by the ECU,it will be asking for trouble too...

...and the other thing is,if you will want to sell the car one day with all those modifications,you will have hard time to find a buyer...and the price will go down too.Maybe something to consider....

Edited May 13, 2012 by funcat

[guzzi850m2]

OP buy another car, 91BHP is not much if loaded up and trying to get more HP sounds expensive.

How much is the ever present Toyota Hiace? See them all over the place mostly hauling tourists.

What about the MU7, a true 7 seater I been told, bigger than all other Thai SUV's.

[Nakonamath]

Hi, you mentioned you just want first-step tuning yet have a 'standard LPG system' - that's the first place I'd suggest investigating. Is it a multi-point system? Everyone complains about LPG power loss and has their own theory but a multi-point (if you don't have one) may be one solution.

Multipioint Yes, and fully cleaned and ready, i have no what so ever noticeable changes when switch between lpg and Gasoline, even in Koh changs killer hills, the Lpg hits the same RPM on the gearing, as the gasoline.....

Jack

[Nakonamath]

Hi, you mentioned you just want first-step tuning yet have a 'standard LPG system' - that's the first place I'd suggest investigating. Is it a multi-point system? Everyone complains about LPG power loss and has their own theory but a multi-point (if you don't have one) may be one solution.

Also I hope the OP has been keeping the LPG system tuned with regular services and getting filters changed. Even the best systems can rob 5% of HP, so maybe a suggestion is to run on petrol when hauling many passengers, and lpg when with 1-2 passengers. You can do quite a bit with 50K, but not so much if he wants to upgrade the interior too.

Interior is 25.000 for the package we have ordered from the Upholstery, Roof, seats doors 2 color buffy cow leather, Quite cheap ! and there work is GREAT, remember i have 8 seats 3 rows !

urm the LPG, i cant notice any difference today i take 6 person to Bkk and back total 250 km no difference to notice, but maybe on the Dyno can pick it out.....

[Nakonamath]

I'm absolutely no expert on this,but I have a bad feeling here....If you can do some "plug in" changes that will be OK,but going for turbo staff can be dangerous to the engine...and you already have the LPG installed....

Friend of mine had an aftermarket turbo kit installed on his G-wagon....he blown the engine soon after!

Changing exhaust system is probably OK,but if the engine is controlled by the ECU,it will be asking for trouble too...

...and the other thing is,if you will want to sell the car one day with all those modifications,you will have hard time to find a buyer...and the price will go down too.Maybe something to consider....

Exactly the points, blown motor is not a thing i wish for, the sellingprice is not a big concern, the car is cheap, and i will keep it, next car will just be nr 2.

The intake, and exchaust, and ECU tuning, are the most safe methodes i have read about.... but i dont know,

Jack

[Nakonamath]

OP buy another car, 91BHP is not much if loaded up and trying to get more HP sounds expensive.

How much is the ever present Toyota Hiace? See them all over the place mostly hauling tourists.

What about the MU7, a true 7 seater I been told, bigger than all other Thai SUV's.

im not buying new car, it is good enough as it is, i just want to spend my pocket money on the car, rather than a new Iphone or 2

I do want a toyota Alphard, but that is not my wallet now, i paid 375.000 im pretty happy about the car at that price. the Alphard will be 4x that price

Jack

[Nakonamath]

If we forget what we read online, about this kind of thing.

http://www.youtube.com/unners148

does anyone have experience with this type of unit with 20.000 rpm,.

It seems quite powerfull, and does it do the same as a turbo ? it forces air into the intake just as a turbo right ?

the reviews i read, have been 3-4-5000 rpm blowers and they had all more or less failed.

Jack

[funcat]

If we forget what we read online, about this kind of thing.

http://www.youtube.com/unners148

does anyone have experience with this type of unit with 20.000 rpm,.

It seems quite powerfull, and does it do the same as a turbo ? it forces air into the intake just as a turbo right ?

the reviews i read, have been 3-4-5000 rpm blowers and they had all more or less failed.

Jack

Wow...if it was only that simple....but this one reply from the web worries me..."This is gunna create so much turbulence the freaking maf sensor will shut a brick. And your ecu will have no clue how much fuel to give your engine. Now with a proper tune it could help if u ran it all the time but a good tune costs a lot."...

I hope that if you try it,you will let us know if it works....

[VocalNeal]

There are electric "superchargers" they cost $2000 and up they require additional car batteries, usually two. They give 15 seconds of boost, something like 3 times, and then the batteries have to be charged independently of the main car battery.

Not exactly much use hauling a van full of people in Kao Yai.

[Nakonamath]

There are electric "superchargers" they cost $2000 and up they require additional car batteries, usually two. They give 15 seconds of boost, something like 3 times, and then the batteries have to be charged independently of the main car battery.

Not exactly much use hauling a van full of people in Kao Yai.

dam_n no, thats not the way to go, i need to have the stable extra horses, How to do ?

Intake, exhaust, and ECU ?

[aussiebebe]

Hi, so as your LPG is multipoint, yes you won't have any power loss there, that's good. However, if you've already spent half of your 50k budget on the interior, that leaves few realistic options. You'd be looking at a K&N (or similar) high-flow air filter or cold air intake (read up on all the drawbacks) plus new header for the exhaust and something like a 'Unichip' (or similar) computer. This is all way outside your budget.

[culicine]

Hi, so as your LPG is multipoint, yes you won't have any power loss there, that's good. However, if you've already spent half of your 50k budget on the interior, that leaves few realistic options. You'd be looking at a K&N (or similar) high-flow air filter or cold air intake (read up on all the drawbacks) plus new header for the exhaust and something like a 'Unichip' (or similar) computer. This is all way outside your budget.

Normal NA mods are worth about 10% increase in HP. So with his engine you would be looking at about 10HP increase, with a few more for a piggyback like greddy emanage blue to improve the tuning a bit. The unichip in Thailand runs at over 20K baht, and think there is a lack of good tuners here (I looked into that before). I'd worry about any kind of electronic supercharger as if this forces in extra air, you might need a piggy back to get the air fuel ratio correct. Not sure how it would work with the lpg.

[culicine]

I followed up with VSR tuning re: a turbo kit for your vehicle. I got this response. It seems well out of your budget and prices seems to have increased since I spoke to them last. Might be back to basic mods!

The cost for turbo setup is around 120,000 baht as a total package cost, with a estimate of 40% increase in both HP and TQ. The package includes turbo system components, fuel pump, 250cc injectors, and a tuned piggyback ecu.

[Nakonamath]

Hi, so as your LPG is multipoint, yes you won't have any power loss there, that's good. However, if you've already spent half of your 50k budget on the interior, that leaves few realistic options. You'd be looking at a K&N (or similar) high-flow air filter or cold air intake (read up on all the drawbacks) plus new header for the exhaust and something like a 'Unichip' (or similar) computer. This is all way outside your budget.

50k + the interior, 50k ish for the tuneup,

the header i search, i cant find anything, other than some home made shit, and there are no guarantie there will be a gain.

[Nakonamath]

Hi, so as your LPG is multipoint, yes you won't have any power loss there, that's good. However, if you've already spent half of your 50k budget on the interior, that leaves few realistic options. You'd be looking at a K&N (or similar) high-flow air filter or cold air intake (read up on all the drawbacks) plus new header for the exhaust and something like a 'Unichip' (or similar) computer. This is all way outside your budget.

Normal NA mods are worth about 10% increase in HP. So with his engine you would be looking at about 10HP increase, with a few more for a piggyback like greddy emanage blue to improve the tuning a bit. The unichip in Thailand runs at over 20K baht, and think there is a lack of good tuners here (I looked into that before). I'd worry about any kind of electronic supercharger as if this forces in extra air, you might need a piggy back to get the air fuel ratio correct. Not sure how it would work with the lpg.

Good answer, in fact i talk with this guy. www.unwinimports.com, many write garbage about this kind of product, but his electric turbo, is really powerfull, see the youtube where it crush cans in 1 sec.http://www.youtube.com/unners148

I can only imagen this must give the same effect as a Turbo except it is less powerfull..... with the piggyback i think it will be able to mix the fuel correctly yes..

[Nakonamath]

I followed up with VSR tuning re: a turbo kit for your vehicle. I got this response. It seems well out of your budget and prices seems to have increased since I spoke to them last. Might be back to basic mods!

The cost for turbo setup is around 120,000 baht as a total package cost, with a estimate of 40% increase in both HP and TQ. The package includes turbo system components, fuel pump, 250cc injectors, and a tuned piggyback ecu.

Shit, yes 120k is 1/3 of what i paid for the whole car. that is too much :-( how ever 40% sounds nice hehe, will it ruin my engine hehe

[culicine]

Hi, so as your LPG is multipoint, yes you won't have any power loss there, that's good. However, if you've already spent half of your 50k budget on the interior, that leaves few realistic options. You'd be looking at a K&N (or similar) high-flow air filter or cold air intake (read up on all the drawbacks) plus new header for the exhaust and something like a 'Unichip' (or similar) computer. This is all way outside your budget.

Normal NA mods are worth about 10% increase in HP. So with his engine you would be looking at about 10HP increase, with a few more for a piggyback like greddy emanage blue to improve the tuning a bit. The unichip in Thailand runs at over 20K baht, and think there is a lack of good tuners here (I looked into that before). I'd worry about any kind of electronic supercharger as if this forces in extra air, you might need a piggy back to get the air fuel ratio correct. Not sure how it would work with the lpg.

Good answer, in fact i talk with this guy. www.unwinimports.com, many write garbage about this kind of product, but his electric turbo, is really powerfull, see the youtube where it crush cans in 1 sec.http://www.youtube.com/unners148

I can only imagen this must give the same effect as a Turbo except it is less powerfull..... with the piggyback i think it will be able to mix the fuel correctly yes..

Well that's about 6000 baht after their discount. That's cheaper than a header. So even if you only 5HP extra then you really are not any worse off, as a header would give that at its maximum. Removing the cat should yield a few hp too, but not sure about if that's legal to do or not, though I doubt the inspection would even be interested in that, looking at some of the rubbish passing for cars on the road here. If you give it a go, let us know how it works out. I also think there is a similar product in Thailand like that, but I don't remember the details.

[Nakonamath]

Hi, so as your LPG is multipoint, yes you won't have any power loss there, that's good. However, if you've already spent half of your 50k budget on the interior, that leaves few realistic options. You'd be looking at a K&N (or similar) high-flow air filter or cold air intake (read up on all the drawbacks) plus new header for the exhaust and something like a 'Unichip' (or similar) computer. This is all way outside your budget.

Normal NA mods are worth about 10% increase in HP. So with his engine you would be looking at about 10HP increase, with a few more for a piggyback like greddy emanage blue to improve the tuning a bit. The unichip in Thailand runs at over 20K baht, and think there is a lack of good tuners here (I looked into that before). I'd worry about any kind of electronic supercharger as if this forces in extra air, you might need a piggy back to get the air fuel ratio correct. Not sure how it would work with the lpg.

Good answer, in fact i talk with this guy. www.unwinimports.com, many write garbage about this kind of product, but his electric turbo, is really powerfull, see the youtube where it crush cans in 1 sec.http://www.youtube.com/unners148

I can only imagen this must give the same effect as a Turbo except it is less powerfull..... with the piggyback i think it will be able to mix the fuel correctly yes..

Well that's about 6000 baht after their discount. That's cheaper than a header. So even if you only 5HP extra then you really are not any worse off, as a header would give that at its maximum. Removing the cat should yield a few hp too, but not sure about if that's legal to do or not, though I doubt the inspection would even be interested in that, looking at some of the rubbish passing for cars on the road here. If you give it a go, let us know how it works out. I also think there is a similar product in Thailand like that, but I don't remember the details.

I did a little follow up on this subject, where i read about the electric superchargers that dont work is simply because they are not powerfull enough, as some use leaf blowers, and i just see some Dyno tests where they got 35ish bhp, so the concept works, and im not installing a leaf blower no :-) however the way my air inlet is constructed, i have much space to play with, so i will try something with this application,, and then look at the Cat and back preasure and exhaust,...

i will post some before and after data.

Jack

[Nakonamath]

RAM supercharger, this seems to be the thing to try ?

If it does not work, fuc_k it, then i can use it as a leafblower HAHA

AS long it dont fuc_k up my car.

Jack

[culicine]

I was looking at reviews of these electric superchargers, and most seem to say they do very little. With limited budget, your best bet is a free flowing exhaust (1.75" pipe is adequate for a 1.6), header, twin loop muffler (to keep it quiet), either de-cat or get a high flow cat. Leave the intake unless you can get a cold air intake fabricated, then you will risk hydrolock when the roads are badly flooded. I use a washable and oilable K&N filter and have had it for many years. I also modified the airbox myself to increase airflow through it. I don't know if that is the cause, but I get a hard surge in performance from 5K rpm to redline, possibly due to increased air flow.

Does your car already have a 'header' - made of steel, or is it thick and heavy and made of cast iron? If the latter, then the header should definately help. I don;t think a piggyback would be needed with these simple mods, but it might hep with fine tuning.

Some contacts : www.mengheader.com, and do a search on "engineering tech header" - they seem to have some very nice looking headers for various cars.

Also consider some superlight allow wheels, they might help a little. Lenso have some.