Copycat Businesses

[arthurwait]

I got it! I got it! I need to open a fish foot massage. There are already 6,000,000 of them they must be making a killing! Hey, they don't even have any customers inside but they are still open! Just goes to show you what a great business it must be! You can't lose. Oh look, Pom's Fish Foot Massage just closed down. What a perfect opportunity to stake my claim in this exciting new industry.

I don't see any reason you couldn't make it work; you are not planning to sell a commodity in an open market after all; you just need to differentiate your service offering and/or market your shop more effectively

For example, a quick search on google reveals that not 1 of those 6,000,000 fish foot massage shops you refer to has a site that is well-optimised for search engines

It is easy to make a profit without an original idea but very difficult to make a profit without good execution

If he got the real fish that actually bite and not the cheap subsitutes used in Thailand that don't he'd be up on the other 5999999 fish spas in Thailand.

[barefoot1988]

dam_n, i knew it. inlaws wanted a loan from me for a business because their neighbor had just open the same business and its the hot topics among the mooban

[jackinbkk]

There was a good article in the economist about trading IP this week

http://www.economist.com/node/21554540

[DanielToddGilbert]

I got it! I got it! I need to open a fish foot massage. There are already 6,000,000 of them they must be making a killing! Hey, they don't even have any customers inside but they are still open! Just goes to show you what a great business it must be! You can't lose. Oh look, Pom's Fish Foot Massage just closed down. What a perfect opportunity to stake my claim in this exciting new industry.

I don't see any reason you couldn't make it work; you are not planning to sell a commodity in an open market after all; you just need to differentiate your service offering and/or market your shop more effectively

For example, a quick search on google reveals that not 1 of those 6,000,000 fish foot massage shops you refer to has a site that is well-optimised for search engines

It is easy to make a profit without an original idea but very difficult to make a profit without good execution

You got to narrow it down to the area the fish foot massage is operating from. How many people type:

"fish foot massage <keyword area>"

about 2 every month? Who on earth sits at their computer and thinks "hey i fancy a fish foot massage I know I will Google it and pop along to the nearest one".

Well done Einstein, an epic fail.

I don't see any reason you couldn't make it work;

Edited May 18, 2012 by DanielToddGilbert

[brit1984]

I got it! I got it! I need to open a fish foot massage. There are already 6,000,000 of them they must be making a killing! Hey, they don't even have any customers inside but they are still open! Just goes to show you what a great business it must be! You can't lose. Oh look, Pom's Fish Foot Massage just closed down. What a perfect opportunity to stake my claim in this exciting new industry.

I don't see any reason you couldn't make it work; you are not planning to sell a commodity in an open market after all; you just need to differentiate your service offering and/or market your shop more effectively

For example, a quick search on google reveals that not 1 of those 6,000,000 fish foot massage shops you refer to has a site that is well-optimised for search engines

It is easy to make a profit without an original idea but very difficult to make a profit without good execution

You got to narrow it down to the area the fish foot massage is operating from. How many people type:

"fish foot massage <keyword area>"

about 2 every month? Who on earth sits at their computer and thinks "hey i fancy a fish foot massage I know I will Google it and pop along to the nearest one".

Well done Einstein, an epic fail.

I don't see any reason you couldn't make it work;

You have raised two good points that are of relevance to the thread (albeit one of them is implicit). Firstly (by pointing out the low search volume of searches on fish foot massages) you have reminded me (and others maybe) about the importance of doing some research. Secondly, and more importantly, you have (unwittingly) reminded us that most people find it easier to identify the risks of a business venture than the opportunities.

On your first point, I just did a quick check for "Bangkok fish spa" (the most relevant term) and it came out as 210 searches/month. Even by including other connotations the total for Bangkok is less than 1000 searches/month, which is very low (but still worth being top of google for as it would be easy to get there). From that research (which I should have done before my last post and which anyone going into such a business should obviously do) it is clear that focusing solely on such narrow search terms would be unwise.

The second point that you have (implicitly) raised is that people tend to notice risks more than opportunities. As a former private equity investor, I also used to have that mentality (as we looked at 1000s of potential investment for every 1 than we invested in). However, I am now an entrepreneur and am learning to focus more on the opportunities of a business venture. In the case of fish spas, for example, why focus only on fish foot massage? The successful fish spas in London offer all the normal spa treatments. If you went after the search term "Bangkok Spa" (which is still not super competitive) you would be going after 40,000 searches/month. The fish spa part of the business is just a way to differentiate yourself (or to have an interesting shop-front) but clearly your sales would come from a range of services.

My point is that it is not important whether your business is unique. The important thing is that you find a way to make your business profitable, despite the numerous difficulties you will encounter. I still can't see any reason why a fish spa couldn't be commercially viable.

By the way, I am not Einstein; he is dead and I am still alive (as are various businesses I have started, none of which were particularly unique)

[DanielToddGilbert]

If you went after the search term "Bangkok Spa" (which is still not super competitive) you would be going after 40,000 searches/month.

No you wouldn't, that is a "Broad" search now go back and try an "Exact" search, its more like 1600 a month, it would be fruitless and a complete and utter waste of time and money.

[brit1984]

If you went after the search term "Bangkok Spa" (which is still not super competitive) you would be going after 40,000 searches/month.

No you wouldn't, that is a "Broad" search now go back and try an "Exact" search, its more like 1600 a month, it would be fruitless and a complete and utter waste of time and money.

Why wouldn't you care about someone searching for "Spa in Bangkok"?

[ebmzlm]

Businesses are heavily duplicated in pattaya. One benefit is people are generally lazy, they are not interested in going to the best laundry shop, cafe, salon etc as long as its convenient.

As you originally stated there are now 11 coffee shops in your area, but you still go to the original as its convenient ie it's the closest to you.

A farlangs or Thai out of pure laziness will always use the closest most convenient store they need.

Hence why there are so many family marts and 7/11, located at the end of every Soi, because they know they will always get customers.

Everyone here is lazy simple as, which creates duplication!

[RubbaJohnny]

Farang Milk Shakes. Great marketing!

Most important part of that definition is no ice, so you've got to pre-chill your milk or you end up having to use too much ice cream if you want it thick. (Aussies distinguish between a "thick shake" and an ordinary "milk shake", for us Yanks the latter is simply an abomination.

I make a mean one myself, haven't found good malt powder so use Milo in the chokshake.

But I'd have to charge at least B100 per to make more than 20% margin not counting labor, so don't think they'd fly in a low-rent location.

I do have a great idea for a street vendor business in hi-so and farang neighborhoods but it's too easy to copy and I might actually want to do it one day so lips are sealed 8-)

If it is cat burglary pickings are good but pay offs too high,go for dogs endless demand from Career Vietmunchers

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I really think the term "lazy" is overused here, especially if you're talking about economic efficiency.

Conserving resources is inherently a good thing, one of natural evolutions prime directives.

Time energy planning and other prerequisites to effective work are very high costs, and only worth expending when the result is strongly desired.

In Buddhist philosophy strong desire for unnecessary things is not a virtue.

In consumer/capitalist cultural programming, such desire, as well as the "protestant" work ethic are promulgated as virtues in and of themselves, but that doesn't make them morally "good", just useful for that IMO cancerous system to fuel itself.

Each person and by extension each culture should decide for themselves what efforts they want to expend on achieving the goals they select for themselves. And of course accept the consequences of those choices good or bad.

Many many Thais seem to be able to get what they need (and sometimes even what they want) with a minimum of effort.

To me that's a very admirable trait.

[thaipod]

Reminds me of a story a guy in Pattaya who opened a foot relexology shop the only one on the street , he was doing good business . Withen two months one opened next door and two on the other side of the road

[brit1984]

I really think the term "lazy" is overused here, especially if you're talking about economic efficiency.

Conserving resources is inherently a good thing, one of natural evolutions prime directives.

Time energy planning and other prerequisites to effective work are very high costs, and only worth expending when the result is strongly desired.

In Buddhist philosophy strong desire for unnecessary things is not a virtue.

In consumer/capitalist cultural programming, such desire, as well as the "protestant" work ethic are promulgated as virtues in and of themselves, but that doesn't make them morally "good", just useful for that IMO cancerous system to fuel itself.

Each person and by extension each culture should decide for themselves what efforts they want to expend on achieving the goals they select for themselves. And of course accept the consequences of those choices good or bad.

Many many Thais seem to be able to get what they need (and sometimes even what they want) with a minimum of effort.

To me that's a very admirable trait.

I agree that being lazy (but efficient) can produce more than being hard-working (but inefficient).

But I don't think Thai people are necessarily more (or less) efficient, or more (or less) lazy than other people

However, given the abundance of food and accommodation (due to communal living culture) life here is easy

Thai people can (and some do) cover their basic "needs" and "wants" while being lazy AND INEFFICIENT

Edited May 19, 2012 by brit1984

[ebmzlm]

If you call lying, cheating etc etc an admirable trait. Then yes your right.

In reality there lazy. They'll do anything to ensure they have what they want, with no disregard to who or how they do so.

Don't be so naive!

Anyway I went a bit off the topic, look at my topic, again to much sympathy given for Thais

[Heng]

All we need now is a food stamp program to develop this laziness thing further.

80 satang on the Baht and you can easily convert them to cash at Heng's Mini Mart and Gas. Working on a promotional tag line...

Only a 20% loss for you on every transaction!

It's not like you had to work for it!

Face it, you're not genetically capable of figuring out basic accounting!

Edited May 19, 2012 by Heng

[SaNim]

Look at Starbucks. They claim to sell coffee and people lap it up.

I never seen anybody lapping up a Starbucks, sipping yes, sucking through a straw yes, lapping no.

[xthAi76s]

I really think the term "lazy" is overused here, especially if you're talking about economic efficiency.

Conserving resources is inherently a good thing, one of natural evolutions prime directives.

Time energy planning and other prerequisites to effective work are very high costs, and only worth expending when the result is strongly desired.

In Buddhist philosophy strong desire for unnecessary things is not a virtue.

In consumer/capitalist cultural programming, such desire, as well as the "protestant" work ethic are promulgated as virtues in and of themselves, but that doesn't make them morally "good", just useful for that IMO cancerous system to fuel itself.

Each person and by extension each culture should decide for themselves what efforts they want to expend on achieving the goals they select for themselves. And of course accept the consequences of those choices good or bad.

Many many Thais seem to be able to get what they need (and sometimes even what they want) with a minimum of effort.

To me that's a very admirable trait.

Hey there. I agree, but it's sadly more complicated than that for Thais.

The way I see it, to summarize, they are generally terribly inefficient (some would call it lazy), and it would be fine IF people tended to live well within their means/purchasing power -- however, there are numerous studies done suggesting that Thais are grossly indebted to their rampant consumerism. So, I don't buy the Buddhism tenet angle (although I used to). Thai perversion of Buddhism is just another excuse, imo, to justify not working as hard as people should be to properly satisfy their consumerist desires. Not much dissimilar, in this respect, to North American Christianity. In other words, I will pray for things to be done for me and for things to get better for me because I sure as hell am not planning on putting the work and sacrifice typically required.

I don't think this is a case where we can let Thais off the hook. They are largely quite inefficient. Not sure about lazy... only because it's hard to define. But, it's apparent from my reading that there seems to be no place within Thai 'culture' that promotes hard/efficient/exceptional work/output for its own sake. Nowhere.

Not really directly part of this topic but interesting nonetheless is why Japanese (Shinto) Buddhism and Chinese forms of Buddhism do... Makes one wonder.

Edited May 19, 2012 by xthAi76s

[Koratpat]

A farang guy I know wanted to open a business in the village. i suggested a few new ideas that might work but his wife decided to open a noodle shop ! we already had 4. needless to say, its closed now.

What were your 4 suggestions?

[Jingthing]

Look at Starbucks. They claim to sell coffee and people lap it up.

I never seen anybody lapping up a Starbucks, sipping yes, sucking through a straw yes, lapping no.

I see.

[BookMan]

Look at Starbucks. They claim to sell coffee and people lap it up.

I never seen anybody lapping up a Starbucks, sipping yes, sucking through a straw yes, lapping no.

I see.

Classic

[phl]

If you guys want to talk about copycats, let me tell you 2 story's both involving foreigners from Europe

I had an internet site selling some clothing, which was doing pretty well, not only in terms of sales but also google ranking, 3rd

One of my so called friends, simply copied my site(as in identical) and linked it all in a way that when people purchase through his site, it actually goes to my site, but he gets a cut(do not ask how he set it up, price on his copy site was $1 more on each item) speaking about the copy cat

Another so called friend, who happened to be from the same European country, i opened another business and site (tours) and occasionally asked him to translate emails from Italian to English, only to find few weeks later, he copied the entire business model and opened the exact same site but in Italian.

So its not only local thing, but seems to be a trait of many people

[xthAi76s]

If you guys want to talk about copycats, let me tell you 2 story's both involving foreigners from Europe

I had an internet site selling some clothing, which was doing pretty well, not only in terms of sales but also google ranking, 3rd

One of my so called friends, simply copied my site(as in identical) and linked it all in a way that when people purchase through his site, it actually goes to my site, but he gets a cut(do not ask how he set it up, price on his copy site was $1 more on each item) speaking about the copy cat

Another so called friend, who happened to be from the same European country, i opened another business and site (tours) and occasionally asked him to translate emails from Italian to English, only to find few weeks later, he copied the entire business model and opened the exact same site but in Italian.

So its not only local thing, but seems to be a trait of many people

I don't think anyone would (or has) EVER suggest(ed) that this is uniquely Thai or Asian... I think that no matter our educational achievement, none of us here who can communicate in any language actually believes that copying does not occur all over the world.

I think what we are discussing (at least some of us) is 1) the amount of copying and 2) tendency for Thais in the discussed businesses to exhibit very little ability whatsoever to distinguish themselves among their competitors. They seem uninterested in the idea that copying without accessing market potential or distinguishing product/service is less likely to lead to success.

It's no secret, for example, that the Japanese started their modern economy out (post-war) by copying... Think auto industry. However, what was different is that they used the copying to enter an already competitive market but over a (short) period of time began to out innovate the Americans and Europeans. The same pattern is beginning to be seen in the Chinese economy, say, in the computer networking tech field, just as an example.

What the Thais lack is intellectual curiosity and a cultural work ethic to drive them forward.

If you disagree, tell me ONE SINGLE Thai industry that excels internationally for which there is proof of substantive Thai innovation .........

Edited May 19, 2012 by xthAi76s

[phl]

If you guys want to talk about copycats, let me tell you 2 story's both involving foreigners from Europe

I had an internet site selling some clothing, which was doing pretty well, not only in terms of sales but also google ranking, 3rd

One of my so called friends, simply copied my site(as in identical) and linked it all in a way that when people purchase through his site, it actually goes to my site, but he gets a cut(do not ask how he set it up, price on his copy site was $1 more on each item) speaking about the copy cat

Another so called friend, who happened to be from the same European country, i opened another business and site (tours) and occasionally asked him to translate emails from Italian to English, only to find few weeks later, he copied the entire business model and opened the exact same site but in Italian.

So its not only local thing, but seems to be a trait of many people

I don't think anyone would (or has) EVER suggest(ed) that this is uniquely Thai or Asian... I think that no matter our educational achievement, none of us here who can communicate in any language actually believes that copying does not occur all over the world.

I think what we are discussing (at least some of us) is 1) the amount of copying and 2) tendency for Thais in the discussed businesses to exhibit very little ability whatsoever to distinguish themselves among their competitors. They seem uninterested in the idea that copying without accessing market potential or distinguishing product/service is less likely to lead to success.

It's no secret, for example, that the Japanese started their modern economy out (post-war) by copying... Think auto industry. However, what was different is that they used the copying to enter an already competitive market but over a (short) period of time began to out innovate the Americans and Europeans. The same pattern is beginning to be seen in the Chinese economy, say, in the computer networking tech field, just as an example.

What the Thais lack is intellectual curiosity and a cultural work ethic to drive them forward.

If you disagree, tell me ONE SINGLE Thai industry that excels internationally for which there is proof of substantive Thai innovation .........

as much as you like me to disagree, i am sorry i can not oblige.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I really think the term "lazy" is overused here, especially if you're talking about economic efficiency.

Conserving resources is inherently a good thing, one of natural evolutions prime directives.

Time energy planning and other prerequisites to effective work are very high costs, and only worth expending when the result is strongly desired.

In Buddhist philosophy strong desire for unnecessary things is not a virtue.

In consumer/capitalist cultural programming, such desire, as well as the "protestant" work ethic are promulgated as virtues in and of themselves, but that doesn't make them morally "good", just useful for that IMO cancerous system to fuel itself.

Each person and by extension each culture should decide for themselves what efforts they want to expend on achieving the goals they select for themselves. And of course accept the consequences of those choices good or bad.

Many many Thais seem to be able to get what they need (and sometimes even what they want) with a minimum of effort.

To me that's a very admirable trait.

But, it's apparent from my reading that there seems to be no place within Thai 'culture' that promotes hard/efficient/exceptional work/output for its own sake. Nowhere.

Many here have observed that Chinese Thais are often different.

My point is that "hard/efficient/exceptional work for its own sake" is not a good thing, only to the extent it achieves the desired goal.

If someone sets no ambitious goals in life and simply takes up space then shuffles off this mortal coil that's their perogative, no moral judgement applies.

If you call lying, cheating etc etc an admirable trait. Then yes your right.

In reality there lazy. They'll do anything to ensure they have what they want, with no disregard to who or how they do so.

No, lying cheating etc are not admirable as I make clear in many many posts.

But the term "lazy" assumes all kinds of culturally programmed values which have little to do with objective universal morality.

And I didn't mean to imply that Buddhism was the driving force behind the lack of driving force here, just contrasting the difference between "desire is the cause of all suffering" as opposed to "work in itself is good and being lazy is bad".

I suspect a fair bit of it has to do with the fact that in cold climates humans had to work hard to avoid death, while in warmer ones that often isn't the case.

[phl]

I suspect a fair bit of it has to do with the fact that in cold climates humans had to work hard to avoid death, while in warmer ones that often isn't the case.

i do no think its the climate, i think its education.

at schools they are taught to copy/repeat, they are NOT taught to think, or to be rational, just to follow.

perfect example is calling some company and reception has been trained to answer the phone"hello welcome......."

make a call and speak before she does, usually you get silence in response because she does not know what to say or do as you have broken the "training"

[WilliamCave]

I agree with u on this seen it many times here.

A soi near were I lived before had to salons and some other Thais figured they could do a good business there to with in 4months there were 5 salons needless to say most are gone now down to 2 again.

[Geekfreaklover]

The rationale for the Thai copycats: If the business plan has been well tested before then nobody loses face when it goes wrong.

[WilliamCave]

My Thai sister in law opened a Thai whiskey bar outside her house. just a bar selling the strong multi coloured Thai whiskey and she was doing very well by local standards. Within a week...............

a free market would dictate that in this situation the one that did it best would triumph.

A friend of mine opened up a coffee and sandwich shop beside another enterprise that was offering a similar, but inferior service.

her prices were higher, the quality of her coffee and food were better, and, most importantly, her service was far superior in that she could serve 2-3 people in the time the competition took to serve 1.

she was able to do this because she was organised and actually took the time to observe the competition and determine where they were going wrong.

happy, well trained staff, an understanding of the product, customer relations, well-defined processes and quality control drove the competition out in a matter of months.

others have tried in the area and since failed.

I am in 100% aggrement with u on this.

I have a western friend and his wife opened a small local store and coffee shop they put the other two stores out of business with in two years.

He has 8 tables out side for the local farmers to sit and drink coffee in the morning and watch the news before going of to work.

The place is organized vey clean good service and lots of stock coolers every thing is priced.

You are correct service and being clean and knowing the completion

[AverageFarang]

What the Thais lack is intellectual curiosity and a cultural work ethic to drive them forward.

If you disagree, tell me ONE SINGLE Thai industry that excels internationally for which there is proof of substantive Thai innovation .........

Sex tourism.

[xthAi76s]

What the Thais lack is intellectual curiosity and a cultural work ethic to drive them forward.

If you disagree, tell me ONE SINGLE Thai industry that excels internationally for which there is proof of substantive Thai innovation .........

Sex tourism.

Perhaps, right. However, for any man who has ever participated in the sex tourism industry in Central or South American and esp south China, Korea and arguably the best, Japan, he might tell you Thais are poor in this area as well. The reason so many are here participating has less to do with how good the industry is and much more to do with the relative strength or weaknesses of currencies.

In my opinion.

[josephbloggs]

Also I have noticed that thai's give up their ideas in a moment. you only have to go up to their stall in a market and tell them 'what a great idea, how do you make it or how is it done'. And they tell you !

My wife takes advantage of this and then opens something similar in the village. when the villagers ask tell her, ''what a great idea, how do you make it or how is it done', she won't tell them or tells them that it was my idea and they need to go ask me. End of conversation.

Oh yeah, well done you. Take advantage of someone's trust and/or naivety, copy their idea, then brag about it on the internet. Big pat on the back to you and your wife. And great idea for telling them it was your idea to put them off the case. Feel proud my friend, feel proud.