It's inherently dangerous to ignore the real movement here and a real shame that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this.

Thaksin himself makes himself the main focus.

would he ever have got this far if they hadn't been marginalised and abused for years previously?

I think his use of money to get what he wants, such as investments in a variety of propaganda channels, payments (either regular or once-off) to people who work for his interests, has more to do with how far he has come.

Now are we to expect the reds to sit back and watch a repeat of the charade we have seen in Thailand previously, as their elected Government are removed and replaced with someone more palatable to the powers that be? Too many people are getting wise to how the system works and if some form of reconciliation isn't established soon I'm afraid we're going to see more violence on the streets.

It doesn't have to be one-or-the-other. The people should come up with their own leaders, leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establshment, who are not dishonest or corrupt, who are competent (in education, skills and experience) for the positions that they take on, and who will genuinely work hard for the people that they represent.

I'm not waiting on anyone to admit anything, but the topic is "Red shirts told to 'fight' Attempt to unseat Govt".

The discussion on why people dislike, seriously dislike, despise or even hate k. Thaksin seems somewhat beside the point. I mean when in a forest a tree falls, but there is no one to hear it, does it make noise? IMHO

And then a lot of ex-pats told him he was wrong, which first he chose to ignore.

And you try telling me what my opinion is on any given subject, it will receive a similar reaction.

You seem to entirely miss the point and are taking this subject far too personally.

No one is telling you what your opinion is. Just because you feel that your personal motivation doesn't match one that Nurofiend suggested was motivation for many, is proof of absolutely nothing other than you don't agree with his opinion. It doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

The irrationality with which you guys defend an opinion which requires no defence says more about your own sensibilities and lack of logical thought than it does anything else.

Ferangled

So i am having a knee jerk reaction and yunla is over simplifying things. I tell you what it would be far simpler if we label this and all the other threads " the world and what you think of it by Ferangled and Nurofiend thread". That way the rest of us can take the week off and you two can tell us what we all think and what is reality in the world. Granted it may not be good for the thread count but it will save many people from banging their heads against the wall..

That would be a fairly irrational approach and perhaps a more informed mind would question the actual content of the posts and give your own opinions rather than attacking someone else's point of view and acting childishly.

Everyone is fairly entitled to their own opinion, no one expects everyone to agree, but taking a differing opinion as a personal assault is quite ridiculous.

It's a fairly sad indication of your mindset if when faced with someone that disagrees with you or makes points that you object to, you prefer to bang your head against the wall or distract from the actual subject of debate than post up your opinions and support them.

Yunla makes some valid points and actually expresses her opinion and backs it up, I simply suggested I thought that particular post was overly simplifying the events so I posted my opinion and supported it. That's the essence of debating a subject. It doesn't make Yunla's opinion any less valid and I certainly don't take it as a personal attack because she expresses a different point of view to me.

The basis of your posts seems to be you're wrong because I don't agree with you... sorry if that doesn't wash with me or sway my sentiment in your favour, it just seems a very knee jerk and childish response.

Hey Thaddeus

It seems we are both taking this personally and we are both Irrational. I find it such a weight off my shoulders to be told what I think by these two, do you feel the same?

Ferangled for the very last time, I am not banging my head against the wall because someone disagreed with me, if you display a little courtesy and read the last few pages you will see that Nurofiend made a rather generic statement about expats in Thailand. I and others have corrected him as that is not how I or those other respective members think at all. Nurofiend now insists on letting us know he is right and we are wrong, we do not know our selves, and you are jumping on his bandwaggon. Do yourself a favour and get off it. I am the worlds expert in all there is to know about me and what/how I think, and Nurofiend comes nowhere close to a millionth of that level of knowledge

Rubi

I mean when in a forest a tree falls, but there is no one to hear it, does it make noise

Now that is a subject worthy of a thread of its own and some pontification. Quantum mechanics would likely say ..no.

The Red leaders bring to mind a scenario: A family is sitting around the table at dinner. One of the younger boys (let's call him 'Red') is told to go wash his hands before sitting down for a meal. The boy could protest by saying something like, "I just washed them a half hour ago" or "I haven't touched anything since I last washed them earlier today" but instead, the boy explodes and yells; "if you tell me to wash my hands one more time, I'm going to burn this house down, and every house in the neighborhood!"

The point here is; The Reds feed on volatile speech and action - often far out of proportion to the situation at hand. It's advantageous for their spokesmen to scream about impending coup d'etat and such, any time something doesn't go their way - in order to get their mindless rabble all worked up in a lather.

And then a lot of ex-pats told him he was wrong, which first he chose to ignore.

And you try telling me what my opinion is on any given subject, it will receive a similar reaction.

You seem to entirely miss the point and are taking this subject far too personally.

No one is telling you what your opinion is. Just because you feel that your personal motivation doesn't match one that Nurofiend suggested was motivation for many, is proof of absolutely nothing other than you don't agree with his opinion. It doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

The irrationality with which you guys defend an opinion which requires no defence says more about your own sensibilities and lack of logical thought than it does anything else.

Ferangled

So i am having a knee jerk reaction and yunla is over simplifying things. I tell you what it would be far simpler if we label this and all the other threads " the world and what you think of it by Ferangled and Nurofiend thread". That way the rest of us can take the week off and you two can tell us what we all think and what is reality in the world. Granted it may not be good for the thread count but it will save many people from banging their heads against the wall..

That would be a fairly irrational approach and perhaps a more informed mind would question the actual content of the posts and give your own opinions rather than attacking someone else's point of view and acting childishly.

Everyone is fairly entitled to their own opinion, no one expects everyone to agree, but taking a differing opinion as a personal assault is quite ridiculous.

It's a fairly sad indication of your mindset if when faced with someone that disagrees with you or makes points that you object to, you prefer to bang your head against the wall or distract from the actual subject of debate than post up your opinions and support them.

Yunla makes some valid points and actually expresses her opinion and backs it up, I simply suggested I thought that particular post was overly simplifying the events so I posted my opinion and supported it. That's the essence of debating a subject. It doesn't make Yunla's opinion any less valid and I certainly don't take it as a personal attack because she expresses a different point of view to me.

The basis of your posts seems to be you're wrong because I don't agree with you... sorry if that doesn't wash with me or sway my sentiment in your favour, it just seems a very knee jerk and childish response.

Hey Thaddeus

It seems we are both taking this personally and we are both Irrational. I find it such a weight off my shoulders to be told what I think by these two, do you feel the same?

Ferangled for the very last time, I am not banging my head against the wall because someone disagreed with me, if you display a little courtesy and read the last few pages you will see that Nurofiend made a rather generic statement about expats in Thailand. I and others have corrected him as that is not how I or those other respective members think at all. Nurofiend now insists on letting us know he is right and we are wrong, we do not know our selves, and you are jumping on his bandwaggon. Do yourself a favour and get off it. I am the worlds expert in all there is to know about me and what/how I think, and Nurofiend comes nowhere close to a millionth of that level of knowledge

Neither does he profess to be! Get off your high horse, no one is attributing any opinion to you and no one is telling you or Thaddeus what to think. Nurofiend made a statement of his opinion:

"Itruly believe that an aspect of why a lot of expats hate him is the affect that the turmoil had on them personally and to their own comfort in the country"

He hasn't said all ex pats, he hasn't even stated this as fact, simply given his opinion. Both you and Thaddeus have made it abundantly clear that you don't believe this is true and that it doesn't apply to you...great, whatever.

Now you expect everyone to take you as indicative of every expat in Thailand? Get a grip and stop taking it so personally, he is entitled to his opinion and whether or not it is factually accurate is not proved or disproved by you expressing that you don't agree!!! Get over it.

If you even attempted to put your own view across then fine but you don't you simply pour scorn on the opinion of others. It's lame and childish and you seem to completely miss the point. It's not about whether you or Nurofiend are correct, this is a forum for people to express their opinions and discuss Thai news.

Rubi

I mean when in a forest a tree falls, but there is no one to hear it, does it make noise

Now that is a subject worthy of a thread of its own and some pontification. Quantum mechanics would likely say ..no.

Now don't you go scientific on me, young man.

Having read all posts I can with confidence tell you that acording to well established TVF opinions noise is made and listening carefully from afar you could probably faintly hear 'thaksin, oh thaksin, where art thou thaksin'

The subject is about the Red Shirts being asked to fight attempts at unseating the Pheu Thai government not yet again why the convicted fugitive criminal scum bag Thaksin is not loved by westerners with a functioning brain. Hate him? He should be dragged back to Thailand, and facing charges for financing and leading the 2010 attacks on Thailand and the Thai Army within the streets of Bangkok which lead to over 90 deaths. The other main players from the Democrat lead governement at the time are happy to front up but snake belly Thaksin needs lawlessness in Thailand above the judicary to set him free. He is a scab on Thailand. By no means the No1 problem whiich is corruption and lawlessness but certainly a scab that needs removed.

The people who will "coup" this government is Pheu Thai themselves through their own stupidity. No one is trying to coup Pheu Thai apart from the fairies in their heads. What the opposition to Pheu Thai is doing is stopping Pheu Thai from putting Thaksin above the law. Stop trying to screw over the constitution for the benefit of one convicted fugitive criminal Thaksin and there will be no leade being set down coup paths.

It doesn't have to be one-or-the-other. The people should come up with their own leaders, leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establshment, who are not dishonest or corrupt, who are competent (in education, skills and experience) for the positions that they take on, and who will genuinely work hard for the people that they represent.

That is something I would have to agree with entirely but I fear is tragically unlikely given the endemic corruption and greed. Too many have vested interests and will not simply walk away, as Mr T demonstrates so abundantly well.

Rubi

I mean when in a forest a tree falls, but there is no one to hear it, does it make noise

Now that is a subject worthy of a thread of its own and some pontification. Quantum mechanics would likely say ..no.

Now don't you go scientific on me, young man.

Having read all posts I can with confidence tell you that acording to well established TVF opinions noise is made and listening carefully from afar you could probably faintly hear 'thaksin, oh thaksin, where art thou thaksin'

Theres small choice in rotten apples.

-Hortensio,

What, this gentleman will out-talk us all.

-Gremio

And where two raging fires meet together;

They do consume the thing that feeds their fury.

Though little fire grows great with little wind,

Yet extreme gusts will blow out fire and all.

The Taming of the Shrew.

What has been said well always bares repeating in like circumstance or other.

Abhisit's government gave the people free education upto M3 they also gave an allowance for uniforms and books . They streamlined health to be free NOT 30b a visit.

Just two that I can remember.

Oh and Phua Thai scrapped the uniform /book allowance to pay for computer tablets. They also want to reinstate 30b per hospital visit....why..... because that was thaksins idea. so they (phua Thai) are doing well.. don't you think.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

Yes Abhisit has much in common with the current administration, he promised many populist policies including providing free education, textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery school students and increasing the minimum wage... what actually materialized from this and had a positive impact on the country?

He also doubled the military budget and suppressed free speech in Thailand, with the press freedom ranking shooting from 107th to 158th during his time as PM and he invested some 100 million baht in setting up an internet war council to suppress and monitor internet usage...

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs....

We could go on all day about the rights and wrongs of these administrations but clearly it achieves nothing, both show signs of being inherently corrupt and self serving and neither have the best interests of the people of Thailand at heart.

Umm ferangled Abhisit's government DID give the people free education up to M3, uniform suppliment. textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery.

This government has taken it all away again PAY for its populist schemes. And the Dem's offered the increase in basic wage as an election promise ( it was 25% increase for all provinces per year for 2 years)

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Umm ferangled Abhisit's government DID give the people free education up to M3, uniform suppliment. textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery.

This government has taken it all away again PAY for its populist schemes. And the Dem's offered the increase in basic wage as an election promise ( it was 25% increase for all provinces per year for 2 years)

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Funny how on a thread about this current Shinawatra government and the red shirts, we end up talking about Abhisit and the Dems. Not by accident i believe.

Over the years, my, how we have seen the Thaivisa Thaksin supporter evolve. The four main stages, from 2001 to now:

1) Thaksin is great!

2) Thaksin is still great. Flawed? Sure, but what genius isn't?

3) Thaksin isn't so great, but still much better than all the rest

4) Thaksin isn't great... but enough about him, enough about his sister, let's talk about the Dems, Abhisit, the PAD, the airport, the nasty elites (of which Thaksin is of course separate), Suthep, Sonthi, The Nation.... etc.

Apart from a few desperate fanatical stragglers, they are all now at stage 4, but the admiration they felt in stage 1, buried and embarrassing though it may be, still exists. We don't talk about that though now.

It doesn't have to be one-or-the-other. The people should come up with their own leaders, leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establshment, who are not dishonest or corrupt, who are competent (in education, skills and experience) for the positions that they take on, and who will genuinely work hard for the people that they represent.

That is something I would have to agree with entirely but I fear is tragically unlikely given the endemic corruption and greed. Too many have vested interests and will not simply walk away, as Mr T demonstrates so abundantly well.

Yes there would be challenges, especially with competition with the big money of the Shinawatra clan flying around which funds propaganda, bribes, supplemental salaries of key players and social engineering / "community building" gatherings; but it would at least be progress. Almost any alternative to having Thaksin and his Pheu Thai party ruling the country is better. Abhisit is one example of someone who would be a good leader of the people, as he has never been seen to act in the kind of greedy and corrupt self-interest we see in many other politicians and ex-politicians including Thaksin. That doesn't mean Abhisit is the peoples' only hope, but neither is Thaksin their only hope (and the rural poor who have been brainwashed into supporting Thaksin so strongly need to realize this). There is no need for a "cult of personality". There may still be other very good people out there who just need to be given a chance.

Umm ferangled Abhisit's government DID give the people free education up to M3, uniform suppliment. textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery.

This government has taken it all away again PAY for its populist schemes. And the Dem's offered the increase in basic wage as an election promise ( it was 25% increase for all provinces per year for 2 years)

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Funny how on a thread about this current Shinawatra government and the red shirts, we end up talking about Abhisit and the Dems. Not by accident i believe.

Over the years, my, how we have seen the Thaivisa Thaksin supporter evolve. The four main stages, from 2001 to now:

1) Thaksin is great!

2) Thaksin is still great. Flawed? Sure, but what genius isn't?

3) Thaksin isn't so great, but still much better than all the rest

4) Thaksin isn't great... but enough about him, enough about his sister, let's talk about the Dems, Abhisit, the PAD, the airport, the nasty elites (of which Thaksin is of course separate), Suthep, Sonthi, The Nation.... etc.

Apart from a few desperate fanatical stragglers, they are all now at stage 4, but the admiration they felt in stage 1, buried and embarrassing though it may be, still exists. We don't talk about that though now.

Yes, now it's naught but, talk about the Thaksin haters,

and the oppositions alleged in-achievements, usually falsely,

but talking about what that Kuhn T. actual DOES when he has some control,

isn't such a good talking point no mo!

And then a lot of ex-pats told him he was wrong, which first he chose to ignore.

And you try telling me what my opinion is on any given subject, it will receive a similar reaction.

You seem to entirely miss the point and are taking this subject far too personally.

No one is telling you what your opinion is. Just because you feel that your personal motivation doesn't match one that Nurofiend suggested was motivation for many, is proof of absolutely nothing other than you don't agree with his opinion. It doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

The irrationality with which you guys defend an opinion which requires no defence says more about your own sensibilities and lack of logical thought than it does anything else.

Ferangled

So i am having a knee jerk reaction and yunla is over simplifying things. I tell you what it would be far simpler if we label this and all the other threads " the world and what you think of it by Ferangled and Nurofiend thread". That way the rest of us can take the week off and you two can tell us what we all think and what is reality in the world. Granted it may not be good for the thread count but it will save many people from banging their heads against the wall..

That would be a fairly irrational approach and perhaps a more informed mind would question the actual content of the posts and give your own opinions rather than attacking someone else's point of view and acting childishly.

Everyone is fairly entitled to their own opinion, no one expects everyone to agree, but taking a differing opinion as a personal assault is quite ridiculous.

It's a fairly sad indication of your mindset if when faced with someone that disagrees with you or makes points that you object to, you prefer to bang your head against the wall or distract from the actual subject of debate than post up your opinions and support them.

Yunla makes some valid points and actually expresses her opinion and backs it up, I simply suggested I thought that particular post was overly simplifying the events so I posted my opinion and supported it. That's the essence of debating a subject. It doesn't make Yunla's opinion any less valid and I certainly don't take it as a personal attack because she expresses a different point of view to me.

The basis of your posts seems to be you're wrong because I don't agree with you... sorry if that doesn't wash with me or sway my sentiment in your favour, it just seems a very knee jerk and childish response.

Hey Thaddeus

It seems we are both taking this personally and we are both Irrational. I find it such a weight off my shoulders to be told what I think by these two, do you feel the same?

I feel so happy right now, sort of like a Daily Mail reader, I was so chuffed I went to makro.

Now all I need is some one to relieve me of having to make earth shattering decisions, like to go to macro or not, and I will be on cloud nine.

I may even be able to see the top of Khun T's ego from there.

It doesn't have to be one-or-the-other. The people should come up with their own leaders, leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establshment, who are not dishonest or corrupt, who are competent (in education, skills and experience) for the positions that they take on, and who will genuinely work hard for the people that they represent.

That is something I would have to agree with entirely but I fear is tragically unlikely given the endemic corruption and greed. Too many have vested interests and will not simply walk away, as Mr T demonstrates so abundantly well.

Yes there would be challenges, especially with competition with the big money of the Shinawatra clan flying around which funds propaganda, bribes, supplemental salaries of key players and social engineering / "community building" gatherings; but it would at least be progress. Almost any alternative to having Thaksin and his Pheu Thai party ruling the country is better. Abhisit is one example of someone who would be a good leader of the people, as he has never been seen to act in the kind of greedy and corrupt self-interest we see in many other politicians and ex-politicians including Thaksin.

Yes I expect the fact that Thaksin was removed by the military and the doubling of the military budget under Abhisit were completely unrelated and coincidental... you first post hit the nail on the head, "leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establishment".

To my mind Abhisit doesn't quite fit this criteria... nor it would seem is he capable of winning a general election.

Umm ferangled Abhisit's government DID give the people free education up to M3, uniform suppliment. textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery.

This government has taken it all away again PAY for its populist schemes. And the Dem's offered the increase in basic wage as an election promise ( it was 25% increase for all provinces per year for 2 years)

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Funny how on a thread about this current Shinawatra government and the red shirts, we end up talking about Abhisit and the Dems. Not by accident i believe.

Over the years, my, how we have seen the Thaivisa Thaksin supporter evolve. The four main stages, from 2001 to now:

1) Thaksin is great!

2) Thaksin is still great. Flawed? Sure, but what genius isn't?

3) Thaksin isn't so great, but still much better than all the rest

4) Thaksin isn't great... but enough about him, enough about his sister, let's talk about the Dems, Abhisit, the PAD, the airport, the nasty elites (of which Thaksin is of course separate), Suthep, Sonthi, The Nation.... etc.

Apart from a few desperate fanatical stragglers, they are all now at stage 4, but the admiration they felt in stage 1, buried and embarrassing though it may be, still exists. We don't talk about that though now.

There is also this flavor: It isn't about Thaksin....The red shirts are a peoples movement, it has nothing to do with Thaksin......

Thaksin really is a nasty piece of work isn't he

Sent from my dog.

Maybe he is a narcissist? A term most of his red warriors have never heard of i guess.

I think we're getting off topic here, "Red Shirts Told To Fight 'Attempts To Unseat Govt' " is the topic, let's keep the discussion on that line.

Thaksin really is a nasty piece of work isn't he

Sent from my dog.

Maybe he is a narcissist? A term most of his red warriors have never heard of i guess.

The difference between a narcissist and a psycopath is the narcissist doesnt resort to violence. Given that Thaksin has a history of supporting and inciting violent acts, it would be fair to say he has a psycopathic personality disorder.

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/^[1][2] from the Ancient Greek ψυχή "psyche", -soul, mind and πάθος, "pathos" -suffering, disease, condition^[3][4]) is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions.

Interpersonal-Affect items

• Glibness/superficial charm
  
• Grandiose sense of self-worth
  
• Pathological lying
  
• Cunning/manipulative
  
• Lack of remorse or guilt
  
• Emotionally shallow
  
• Callous/lack of empathy
  
• Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Psychopathy

Yep sure sounds like him.

Why else would he call the redshirts to arms to fight for his ego.

Thaksin really is a nasty piece of work isn't he

Sent from my dog.

Maybe he is a narcissist? A term most of his red warriors have never heard of i guess.

The difference between a narcissist and a psycopath is the narcissist doesnt resort to violence. Given that Thaksin has a history of supporting and inciting violent acts, it would be fair to say he has a psycopathic personality disorder.

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/^[1][2] from the Ancient Greek ψυχή "psyche", -soul, mind and πάθος, "pathos" -suffering, disease, condition^[3][4]) is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions.

Interpersonal-Affect items

• Glibness/superficial charm
  
• Grandiose sense of self-worth
  
• Pathological lying
  
• Cunning/manipulative
  
• Lack of remorse or guilt
  
• Emotionally shallow
  
• Callous/lack of empathy
  
• Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Psychopathy

Yep sure sounds like him.

Why else would he call the redshirts to arms to fight for his ego.

Megalomania (ˌmɛɡələʊˈmeɪnɪə) — n

1. a mental illness characterized by delusions of grandeur, power, wealth, etc

2. informal a lust or craving for power

__________________

Amoral  [ey-mawr-uhl, a-mawr-, ey-mor-, a-mor-]

1. not involving questions of right or wrong;

without

moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.

2. having no

moral standards, restraints, or principles;

unaware of or indifferent to questions of right or wrong:

acompletely amoral person.

__________________

Sociopath [soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-]

antisocial, often criminal,

and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

__________________

Main Entry: Insidious

Part of Speech: adjective Definition: sneaky, tricky

Synonyms:

Machiavellian , artful, astute, corrupt, crafty,crooked, cunning, dangerous,

deceitful,deceptive, deep, designing, dishonest,disingenuous, duplicitous,

ensnaring, false, foxy, guileful, intriguing, like a snake in the grass, perfidious,

perilous, secret, slick, sly,smooth, snaky, sneaking, stealthy, subtle,

surreptitious, treacherous, wily, wormlike

Notes:

insidious (Latin insidere 'to lie in wait for,'from sedere 'sit')

describes stealthy, treacherous behavior;

incidious behavior arouses ill will, animosity, or hostility

=========================================

"a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience."

Saying you have one is not the same thing as actually having one.

Saying you have social responsibility to acquire power over others

is ALSO not the same thing as having true social responsibility for others.

They are antithetical.

1. of the

nature of or involving antithesis.

2. directly opposed or contrasted; opposite.

No matter how veiled the insinuations are, do not go there:

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

From this point on, anymore veiled insinuations/speculations, suspensions will be issued.

Umm ferangled Abhisit's government DID give the people free education up to M3, uniform suppliment. textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery.

This government has taken it all away again PAY for its populist schemes. And the Dem's offered the increase in basic wage as an election promise ( it was 25% increase for all provinces per year for 2 years)

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Funny how on a thread about this current Shinawatra government and the red shirts, we end up talking about Abhisit and the Dems. Not by accident i believe.

Over the years, my, how we have seen the Thaivisa Thaksin supporter evolve. The four main stages, from 2001 to now:

1) Thaksin is great!

2) Thaksin is still great. Flawed? Sure, but what genius isn't?

3) Thaksin isn't so great, but still much better than all the rest

4) Thaksin isn't great... but enough about him, enough about his sister, let's talk about the Dems, Abhisit, the PAD, the airport, the nasty elites (of which Thaksin is of course separate), Suthep, Sonthi, The Nation.... etc.

Apart from a few desperate fanatical stragglers, they are all now at stage 4, but the admiration they felt in stage 1, buried and embarrassing though it may be, still exists. We don't talk about that though now.

5) Thaksin is a greedy self-centered bast@rd.

I think we're getting off topic here, "Red Shirts Told To Fight 'Attempts To Unseat Govt' " is the topic, let's keep the discussion on that line.

Off topic posts removed.

A series of discussions not related to the current topic have been removed. This topic is not about the posting habits or opinions of other members, stop the personal attacks. Let's get back on topic.

and exactly what due process makes killing your own citizens ok?!

Killing your own citizens is acceptable if all three below apply:

1) those citizens are in the process of breaking the law

2) those citizens are putting law-abiding citizens/police officers/soldiers lives in danger

3) those citizens refuse to surrender when apprehended

How many of the couple of thousand killed in the war on drugs campaign, could all those three be applied to?

You should have been in charge of the Thai Police during the Red occupation in the center of town. Then the situation would have been resolved quickly.

That is probably a true statement.

IMO, there is one thing that is perfectly clear about 2010 (is this thread about 2010??? ) and that is that the actions of the Abhisit gov't made the situation worse, not better.

An approach closer to the idea expressed by Ferangled would have achieved, IMO, a better result for all sides involved...

But I suspect that we are firmly OT now.

Lets make things quite clear here. It was the actions of red leaders who were inciting a crowd to illegal violence and arson that made matters worse. The Abhisit Government then contributed to the problems by trying to allow the reds enough leeway to end the matter peacefully. If Abhist can be blamed for anything it was not enough military intervention in a timely fashion, and indeed had the police behaved like police and done their jobs instead of disappearing, the Army would never have been needed for an intervention. Instead we were treated to comedy scenes from the Keystone cops such as the lardy one, Arisman escaping police custody by climbing down a rope!!

At the end of the day you can chastise a parent who's wayward rogue son has murdered someone, as maybe they could have taken control of the thug earlier, but ultimately, the thug is legally responsible for his own actions, he had choice. The reds had choice, and they chose a path of violence. It must even strike a chord somewhere with your intellect that it was remarkable that after the Government conceded to the red demands, the reds then changed their minds and no further demands were put on the table. The reds simply wanted a fight (the red leaders and red thugs that is), and sadly the poor and elderly rural farmers were cannon fodder to be sacrificed by their own cowardly leadership.

IF the lessons of 2010 are not analyzed and adhered to, then the re-run in 2012 could potentially be 10 times worse. The current situation is actually critical, and as you seem to lay the last problems at the feet of the Government, where do you lay the fault of the current problems?

Well after Thaksin did his runner, as he was not in command at the time-we had some makeshifts at the helm-Abhisit was voted by parliament to take the helm, under shizen circumstances, holding an ricketty lot together. He stuck to the task under bad conditions until elections. Who the hell do these red shirt nuts think they are, whipped up into a frenzy by a pigged off ex stirrer who wants his throne and money back. I for one would not have wanted to run a country on Abhisits terms, like a chicken run with no wire.

The red-shirt leadership urged supporters to fight what they claimed is the attempt to unseat the Yingluck administration through a coup d'etat or a Constitution Court ruling.

The latter is how the democrats did it last time, the former is what the PAD are proposing now.

Wouldn't it make sense for the opposition to work on their own platform and improving their perceived value to the Thai people in order to be competitive in the next election?

The red-shirt leadership urged supporters to fight what they claimed is the attempt to unseat the Yingluck administration through a coup d'etat or a Constitution Court ruling.

The latter is how the democrats did it last time, the former is what the PAD are proposing now.

Wouldn't it make sense for the opposition to work on their own platform and improving their perceived value to the Thai people in order to be competitive in the next election?

Of course that would be the best way.

The red-shirt leadership urged supporters to fight what they claimed is the attempt to unseat the Yingluck administration through a coup d'etat or a Constitution Court ruling.

The latter is how the democrats did it last time, the former is what the PAD are proposing now.

Wouldn't it make sense for the opposition to work on their own platform and improving their perceived value to the Thai people in order to be competitive in the next election?

Buying block votes and making unrealistic lolly scramble campaign promises is a good platform? Put pressure on the judicarcy by broadcasting their and their families home contacts? Its a great model that the current band of Thaksins criminals have alright.