From Village Girl To .........

[TommoPhysicist]

Good point.. this is how i see a good relation. Many guys rather pay and keep power over the girl. Its the only way to keep them.

And "power" is the way I see it in so many ways..

You're both absolutely right, my POV is very much driven by the fact that I have no desire to allow a SO to have much say in my life, it's my way or the highway and I admit in theory that may not be the healthiest stance.

Why would any 'person of means' allow someone else to control their life?

Just seems a daft thing to allow.

[brit1984]

Good point.. this is how i see a good relation. Many guys rather pay and keep power over the girl. Its the only way to keep them.

And "power" is the way I see it in so many ways..

You're both absolutely right, my POV is very much driven by the fact that I have no desire to allow a SO to have much say in my life, it's my way or the highway and I admit in theory that may not be the healthiest stance.

Why would any 'person of means' allow someone else to control their life?

Just seems a daft thing to allow.

My 18-month old daughter controls my life

Maybe I am daft or not a "person of means"

[2unique]

would like to drill down into what love in this instance constitutes. Love of money? Of him? of the security he provides or just plain old fashioned love...

The word "love", in addition to the two meanings I expounded on above, is also (very confusingly, but that's typical for English) is also used in a third sense of "very much liking" things and experiences rather than the context of human relationships.

I love to go to the beach. I love my cat. I love ice cream. I love money.

Of course these have nothing to do with the meanings previously discussed wrt human relationships.

People who base their choice of mate on purely financial considerations are in effect coming on board as employees, offering their services in exchange for wages. It should be obvious by now that IMO there is nothing wrong with this.

Unless there is also deception involved, which of course is not always the case. Often the sponsor will goes along and allows him/her self to be deceived, because s/he's lazy or of low intelligence, but this doesn't reduce the moral culpability of the person perpetrating the fraud, in fact most criminal consider those con artists who prey on the weak and stupid to be nearly the lowest of the low in prison pecking order, only above the pedo's.

in my limited experience no "good" girl becomes a foul mouthed tramp with a sense of entitlement overnight. She was taught what was hers, she already believed it was hers and she decided the short "con" rather than the long game was the way to get it.

It is very very rare to find a girl in Pattaya or other farang-oriented environs, whether explicit sex workers or not, who will stay with a man without some expectation of financial reward.

Those working the long con as you put it are generally the more intelligent ones, and certainly not "good" in both our terms.

However IMO those who require a guaranteed minimum stipend per month are usually the more honest ones, and aren't working any kind of con at all.

My reason for calling it a con (offset) by quotation marks was not having a problem with her requirement but with her methodology, she looked for a quick sale for a quick commission, industries involved in quick sales teach us to look amongst family then friends first. She did, failed to close what she thought was a deal and then blamed the customer for not wanting the product.

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

[elliss]

MR OP ,

a facts of thai life ,- why work ,,,

be it in the laundry ,in a restauarnt , even teaching, for a pittance,,

when a half good looking girl ,, can earn much, much more money ,, 20.000 - 60.000 bht ,/ mounth

,,,, in the bars of phucket ,bkk , pattaya , granted would be less in the back waters , surin , udon , kk , etc.

thats the reason many issan ladies go for the easy opttion ,much easier , many money.

a lot better than working in the rice fields , many sure.

and the chance, of hooking a good / fat ATM..

i don,t blame them , i would do the same ,, if i had the bits and pieces, they have.

life is not fair ,

[TommoPhysicist]

My 18-month old daughter controls my life

Maybe I am daft or not a "person of means"

Now you're just being silly and argumentative.

This morning I went out for coffee, my 9 month old son came with me, the owner grabbed him off me for two hours and he was passed around the female customers, then I had him on my lap while the local college girls introduced themselves to us. And he's a wow with the hookers at the local bar. He also just delayed me posting this reply by 3 minutes.

He doesn't control my life, he enhances my life and introduces me to many attractive ladies (especially when mum isn't around, today she's attending high-school).

PS. I never allow him to be taken out of my sight.

Edited June 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[brit1984]

MR OP ,

a facts of thai life ,- why work ,,,

be it in the laundry ,in a restauarnt , even teaching, for a pittance,,

when a half good looking girl ,, can earn much, much more money ,, 20.000 - 60.000 bht ,/ mounth

,,,, in the bars of phucket ,bkk , pattaya , granted would be less in the back waters , surin , udon , kk , etc.

thats the reason many issan ladies go for the easy opttion ,much easier , many money.

a lot better than working in the rice fields , many sure.

and the chance, of hooking a good / fat ATM..

i don,t blame them , i would do the same ,, if i had the bits and pieces, they have.

life is not fair ,

I think prostitutes in any country can earn more than the average worker.

In Thailand, as in most countries, most women (and men) choose another career path.

If you are decent looking, you could make big money as a male prostitute in London / New York.

My suspicion is you wouldn't really want to be a sex worker, if you thought about it.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

MR OP, a facts of thai life, - why work, be it in the laundry, in a restauarnt, even teaching, for a pittance when a half good looking girl can earn much, much more money 20.000 - 60.000 bht, / mounth in the bars of phucket, bkk, pattaya, granted would be less in the back waters, surin, udon, kk, etc. thats the reason many issan ladies go for the easy opttion, much easier, many money. a lot better than working in the rice fields, many sure. and the chance, of hooking a good / fat ATM.. i don,t blame them, i would do the same if i had the bits and pieces, they have. life is not fair,

Don't know what happened with your formatting there. . .

I know several young hot con artists that have assets in the many millions of baht in their name (hence in effect their property now), zero living expenses and disposable cash income well over 150K/mo and now don't even have to "work" that hard to maintain it.

I realize that only reinforces your point, just sayin'. . .

I do try to keep my SOs from learning or at least being reminded of such realities, so let's not help spread it around in the more innocent Thai circles too much OK fellas?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This morning I went out for coffee, my 9 month old son came with me, the owner grabbed him off me for two hours and he was passed around the female customers, then I had him on my lap while the local college girls introduced themselves to us. And he's a wow with the hookers at the local bar. He also just delayed me posting this reply by 3 minutes.

He doesn't control my life, he enhances my life and introduces me to many attractive ladies (especially when mum isn't around, today she's attending high-school).

From personal experience, don't leave him alone with untrusted girls, not just talking about the sex workers either, some practices Thais consider normal are IMO not healthy and back home would definitely be prosecuted as abuse.

I have to say I don't bring my young ones to explicit sex industry venues, I want them to understand what they're seeing from a proper POV first, probably wait until they're at least eight or so. . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

My reason for calling it a con (offset) by quotation marks was not having a problem with her requirement but with her methodology, she looked for a quick sale for a quick commission, industries involved in quick sales teach us to look amongst family then friends first. She did, failed to close what she thought was a deal and then blamed the customer for not wanting the product.

OK, understand. From her POV she was the one who'd been deceived, she's most likely not capable of realizing that she could have got more by playing it long.

Which to me is a positive, not a negative, whether ignorance or honesty, often functionally equivalent.

[brit1984]

My 18-month old daughter controls my life

Maybe I am daft or not a "person of means"

Now you're just being silly and argumentative.

This morning I went out for coffee, my 9 month old son came with me, the owner grabbed him off me for two hours and he was passed around the female customers, then I had him on my lap while the local college girls introduced themselves to us. And he's a wow with the hookers at the local bar. He also just delayed me posting this reply by 3 minutes.

He doesn't control my life, he enhances my life and introduces me to many attractive ladies (especially when mum isn't around, today she's attending high-school).

My point is that there is nothing daft about adjusting your life for the people you love...

For example, the wife often likes to talk to me about various topics that I find quite boring

Should I just tell her not to speak to me unless she wants to talk about cricket?...

[BigJohnnyBKK]

And "power" is the way I see it in so many ways..

You're both absolutely right, my POV is very much driven by the fact that I have no desire to allow a SO to have much say in my life, it's my way or the highway and I admit in theory that may not be the healthiest stance.

Why would any 'person of means' allow someone else to control their life?

Just seems a daft thing to allow.

Now you're being extreme Tommo.

Big difference between controlling one's life and having a fair say as equals.

I personally don't want either, but recognize the latter is fair enough and healthy for those that are willing to take their chances and pay the price if it goes pear-shaped.

However it is true it is a much more difficult row to hoe, actively negotiating issues with a strong-minded loved one is a real challenge for a thoughtful and caring person, much more so than just being the boss. . .

[TommoPhysicist]

My point is that there is nothing daft about adjusting your life for the people you love...

For example, the wife often likes to talk to me about various topics that I find quite boring

Should I just tell her not to speak to me unless she wants to talk about cricket?...

That really isn't the same as allowing another person to control your life, now is it?

@BJBK

My previous wife in the UK told me who I could see (male friends), where I could go, and who was allowed to visit me in my house. Now that's extreme!

Edited June 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[robblok]

My 18-month old daughter controls my life

Maybe I am daft or not a "person of means"

Now you're just being silly and argumentative.

This morning I went out for coffee, my 9 month old son came with me, the owner grabbed him off me for two hours and he was passed around the female customers, then I had him on my lap while the local college girls introduced themselves to us. And he's a wow with the hookers at the local bar. He also just delayed me posting this reply by 3 minutes.

He doesn't control my life, he enhances my life and introduces me to many attractive ladies (especially when mum isn't around, today she's attending high-school).

My point is that there is nothing daft about adjusting your life for the people you love...

For example, the wife often likes to talk to me about various topics that I find quite boring

Should I just tell her not to speak to me unless she wants to talk about cricket?...

Good point, i like to be in control and most of the time i am. Does not mean i always get it my way. Just set certain limits. But shopping with the wife I would consider cruel and unusual punishment.

But of course I do things with her that i don't always like. That is the point in a relationship. Unless of course you rent a slave that does everything you want.

[DrTuner]

So she learned that there's a quicker way out of poverty then breaking your back on low grade jobs and took her chances with the OP as well. Backfired, got angry but doubtless has recovered and on her way to prosperity.

I do like happy endings.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

That really isn't the same as allowing another person to control your life, now is it?

@BJBK

My previous wife in the UK told me who I could see (male friends), where I could go, and who was allowed to visit me in my house. Now that's extreme!

I agree, but no one's advocating that as healthy, and of course just like virgin vs whore, it's not a black and white issue but an infinite greyscale continuum.

You and I just prefer to keep to the one end rather than attempting to negotiate the much more delicate balance, which admittedly may not even be possible in some contexts/with some partners.

[2unique]

My reason for calling it a con (offset) by quotation marks was not having a problem with her requirement but with her methodology, she looked for a quick sale for a quick commission, industries involved in quick sales teach us to look amongst family then friends first. She did, failed to close what she thought was a deal and then blamed the customer for not wanting the product.

OK, understand. From her POV she was the one who'd been deceived, she's most likely not capable of realizing that she could have got more by playing it long.

Which to me is a positive, not a negative, whether ignorance or honesty, often functionally equivalent.

I must admit I didn't see that angle when I read the OP - I'll go back and read - if she felt there was a relationship offered and was then stating the terms along which the relationship would function then my ramblings are of course incorrect and I must really learn to stop skim reading longer posts!!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Unless of course you rent a slave that does everything you want.

Bit of a contradiction of terms there, renting someone willing to pretend they're being your slave perhaps.

Actually those I prefer to pay by the hour 8-)

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I must admit I didn't see that angle when I read the OP - I'll go back and read - if she felt there was a relationship offered and was then stating the terms along which the relationship would function then my ramblings are of course incorrect and I must really learn to stop skim reading longer posts!!

Just as possible my interpretation is colored by my own experiences and biases.

But I think the fundamental cross-culture sexual-political misunderstanding is that the OP thought that she was being a prostitute by making such an offer, while she was thinking that he would like to rescue her from having to be one.

[pattayadingo]

Just think about it like this, once you are no longer able to pay or get sick... what happens to the ones you pay to keep you company.

Funny how Thailand accumulates so many losers whose money can run out.

Thailand isn't the sort of country where those foreigners who aren't fully financed should be living.

Ok so its clear to you she stays with you for the money. No problem there, you know it your ok with it. You rented her you know your only redeeming asset is your money. I have no problem with that its your choice.

Money always can run out and people always can get sick. Has nothing to do with being a looser. Its a fact of life.

I agree with robblok on this.

Sounds to me like a man with a wallet but no personality. You see these type of guys in the bars. All the women sat round having drinks bought and laughing about it later. I prefer to have the women come to me because I am me and not because I buy them drinks

[pattayadingo]

Just think about it like this, once you are no longer able to pay or get sick... what happens to the ones you pay to keep you company.

Funny how Thailand accumulates so many losers whose money can run out.

Thailand isn't the sort of country where those foreigners who aren't fully financed should be living.

Meaning that you are so seriously wedged up that you have covered your big arse for any eventuality! Come on Tommo you are talkiing a load of crap!

@ edwin

[TommoPhysicist]

I agree with robblok on this.

Sounds to me like a man with a wallet but no personality. You see these type of guys in the bars. All the women sat round having drinks bought and laughing about it later. I prefer to have the women come to me because I am me and not because I buy them drinks

Why waste money buying girls drinks ....... when you can just buy the girl? ........ DOH!

On a more personal note.

The only drink my wife will accept is fruit juice or iced tea. Very strict Buddhist (sadly), no alcohol or beef ever, no sex or meat on Buddha days (and she won't cook beef for me on Buddha day either).

Edited June 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[pattayadingo]

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Tradition in Thailand is that you effectively buy your wife (no matter what her social background or educational level).

As my wife said to me (after about 6 months) "No woman in Thailand marries a man because she loves him, she marries a man she (or her parents) think can provide for her and her children, if later she learns to love him, that's a bonus (but not important)."

Sorry if this news upsets anyone but most Thai girls marry for love, not money.

bit simplistic - start a new topic, would like to drill down into what love in this instance constitutes. Love of money? Of him? of the security he provides or just plain old fashioned love...

as regards Laundry bird, it is conceivable that she changed in a short while but its more likely that this is who she always was and just learnt how to express it better if not correctly.

in my limited experience no "good" girl becomes a foul mouthed tramp with a sense of entitlement overnight. She was taught what was hers, she already believed it was hers and she decided the short "con" rather than the long game was the way to get it.

Or maybe she is desperate to escape an environment that is alien to her and tried in a haphazard way to find a way out and failed. then she used words she had learned from other women in the bar. Kee Neow (sticky sh*t) & Farang Kwai are normal Thai phrases. The F word isn't.

Of course I might be wrong on the point that she has always had this in her but I can only judge on what I knew of her before and what I heard the other day.

I bet there are many 'good' women start out in bars with the best of intentions and fall prey to the way the system works in these places. Watching and listening to the people you work with every day can easily change an impressionable person.

[pattayadingo]

Ok, lets get back on topic please, and drop these personal arguments.

My apologies for replying to the comments you are referring to. I saw this post of yours afterwards.

I feel it is a good topic overall and would hate to see it closed because of some comments.

[TommoPhysicist]

Kee Neow (sticky sh*t) & Farang Kwai are normal Thai phrases.

Just to correct you the 'kee' in 'kee neow' is not sh*t .... this usage of the word 'kee' is used as a modifier to turn an adjective into a negative personal trait. In this form of 'sticky' it implies a person unwilling to part with money. For example, loser = kee pair, drunkard = kee mao, nag = kee bon, lazy= kee giat.

Edited June 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[pattayadingo]

Sorry if this news upsets anyone but most Thai girls marry for love, not money.

I was going to 100% agree with this last, but on reflection I realize the truth isn't that straightforward. And of course for most Thai girls who marry older farang that isn't true at all, with the difference in age probably having a high negative correlation with the probability of your proposition.

The other qualifying factor is that since most Thai girls are dirt poor, the ones that allow themselves to marry for only love, without regard to any considerations of their future financial security would be pretty stupid wouldn't they. And I don't think most Thai girls are stupid, do you?

The degree to which a Thai girl already has some financial security in her life, IMO is generally the degree to which she'll permit the former to have more influence in her choice of mate above the latter.

However once you get up into the truly higher socio-economic circles, I suspect most girls there would not be willing to lose face and marry a totally skint guy, and if he's a farang even more so.

So perhaps the safest generalization (again IMO) is:

Most Thai girls will wait until they find the best of both worlds.

Some good points in that post.

Personally I'd believe it a case of 95% money with a big age difference of 30+ years. It has to be a rarity where a young woman in her 20's would be with an older man in his 60's for love, though it does happen.

Yes, if a woman needs love - and many Thai women would like a loving relationship IMHO - and they can have love with some reasonable amount security they would opt for that option very quickly.

Obviously there have to be other factors like family and peers to contend with because if the family say no to a relationship, especially the mother, that is usually the kiss of death in a relationship. Peers can be dealt with with a strong personality.

[impulse]

Its strange at what lengths some people go to to establish their wealth to their forum!

It's funny that youngsters don't realise the funding that most 'boomers' have in place.

If I were wealthy I would be in Mauritius, I talking stable income streams guaranteed for life.

Possibly, but keep in mind that most folks who are currently retired spent their working life when defined benefit pensions plans were still on offer, and it was normal to spend a whole career at one company. All they had to do to "earn" a comfortable retirement was show up for work every day and watch that pension grow...

And before anyone slams me because they did it different and better, remember, I said "most folks".

Most of today's youngsters (and I'm not one of them) work in a system where they have to take responsibility for their own retirement, and face the prospect of (probably) changing companies every few years, if not changing careers as more and more jobs become obsolete or get offshored.

It's not hard to understand why either side would have a difficult time walking in the other's shoes.

For me, I'm a tweener. My first job had a defined benefit pension that later converted to a 401K. I left that job after 8 years with a whopping $2,400 vested because they weighted pension benefits so heavily toward people with over 20 years. Strangely, they laid a lot of people off when they hit 19.5 years.... I haven't had a defined benefit pension program since then (1988).

Edited June 17, 2012 by impulse

[pattayadingo]

MR OP , a facts of thai life ,-

why work ,,, be it in the laundry ,in a restauarnt , even teaching, for a pittance,, when a half good looking girl ,, can earn much, much more money ,, 20.000 - 60.000 bht ,/ mounth,,,, in the bars of phucket ,bkk , pattaya, granted would be less in the back waters , surin , udon , kk , etc.

thats the reason many issan ladies go for the easy opttion ,much easier , many money. a lot better than working in the rice fields , many sure. and the chance, of hooking a good / fat ATM.. i don,t blame them , i would do the same ,, if i had the bits and pieces, they have.

life is not fair ,

Having been in the Merchant Navy and been around a few places over the years I do know a bit about life and hardships. I also know that many women in prostitution are not always happy with what they do. Once you sit and chat to a lot of these women they are often choosy about who they will go with even for money.

A big problem is that too many people look at 'the goods for sale' and not at the woman or have any desire to get to know them and what they really think. Myself, I am happy to sit and talk to them, they can be interesting people. Yes many can be and are cold hearted. The life can make them that way. Many others have hearts but also have little option once they are into the 'trade'.

Life is not fair. If life was fair there would not be so many lonely old men as customers and not so many women working to supply them.

[pattayadingo]

This morning I went out for coffee, my 9 month old son came with me, the owner grabbed him off me for two hours and he was passed around the female customers, then I had him on my lap while the local college girls introduced themselves to us. And he's a wow with the hookers at the local bar. He also just delayed me posting this reply by 3 minutes.

He doesn't control my life, he enhances my life and introduces me to many attractive ladies (especially when mum isn't around, today she's attending high-school).

From personal experience, don't leave him alone with untrusted girls, not just talking about the sex workers either, some practices Thais consider normal are IMO not healthy and back home would definitely be prosecuted as abuse.

I have to say I don't bring my young ones to explicit sex industry venues, I want them to understand what they're seeing from a proper POV first, probably wait until they're at least eight or so. . .

How often I have seen foreign families take their children to a bar where the women are working and seen them swoon over a white child and that child being passed around. Some children are too young to understand what is going on others are old enough to see and understand to a degree.

When I see this happening at midnight and later, I have to question the morals and guidance of the parents. Women being groped and kissed and other occurrences like that cannot be all that good for a child to be watching.

When was the last time you saw a Thai child in a bar where women are selling themselves openly? I cannot recall such a time. Maybe that makes the morals of these working women better than that of some customers. Yet again I reiterate that not all these women are bad people for working where they work but do it out of what they deem to be a necessary evil.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Having been in the Merchant Navy and been around a few places over the years I do know a bit about life and hardships. I also know that many women in prostitution are not always happy with what they do. Once you sit and chat to a lot of these women they are often choosy about who they will go with even for money.

A big problem is that too many people look at 'the goods for sale' and not at the woman or have any desire to get to know them and what they really think. Myself, I am happy to sit and talk to them, they can be interesting people. Yes many can be and are cold hearted. The life can make them that way. Many others have hearts but also have little option once they are into the 'trade'.

Life is not fair. If life was fair there would not be so many lonely old men as customers and not so many women working to supply them.

Just realize that a lot of what you hear is slanted towards what may get them more of what they're looking for.

Everyone has choices in life, and yes life is hard for most people on this planet, no one said it's supposed to be "fair" whatever that is supposed to mean.

When I was 16 a very wealthy man offered to take me on as his protege, buy me a Porsche etc in exchange for sexual favors.

I talked it over with my mum, and her advice, I'll never forget it, was.

"It's your decision - just make sure you never put yourself in a position where you owe someone else to the point where you lose the ability to keep making choices for yourself."

I didn't think the old queen would be that bad, but didn't want to pretend I was gay for money, so turned him down.

[brit1984]

I agree with robblok on this.

Sounds to me like a man with a wallet but no personality. You see these type of guys in the bars. All the women sat round having drinks bought and laughing about it later. I prefer to have the women come to me because I am me and not because I buy them drinks

Why waste money buying girls drinks ....... when you can just buy the girl? ........ DOH!

On a more personal note.

The only drink my wife will accept is fruit juice or iced tea. Very strict Buddhist (sadly), no alcohol or beef ever, no sex or meat on Buddha days (and she won't cook beef for me on Buddha day either).

Your wife sounds like a lovely lady. I hope the way you talk about women on this forum does not reflect the way you treat her in real life.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules