Good Bye Bangkok Shopping

[think_too_mut]

Monday last week I went shopping to Siam Paragon and Emporium.

Business shirts and Jim Thompson ties were same price as Brooks Brothers in Tokyo and they did not have the non-iron version (but they were selling to me an unknown brand at the same price, with "wrinkle free" tag).

Jim Thompson ties are down to a satang same price as Brooks Brothers, being back in design and current fashion about 2 years behind BB.

Then, if that is so, I decided to buy nothing and get it all in Tokyo. Yesterday I bought my 5 shirts and ties. However, the shop assistant made a mistake and the sleeves are 1/2 inch longer than what I need. It will be replaced, over the phone and the shop will send someone to do it.

I'm wondering what would have happened had I spent 4K baht per shirt in BKK and they don't fit?

There is nothing cheaper there, no reason to spend same money, lose on exchange rate, drag it back home and be left in cold if something is not right.

For now, Bangkok, keep what you know the best: sell OTOP dried fruits at the airport for presents back home.

[OldAsiaHand]

I'm wondering what would have happened had I spent 4K baht per shirt in BKK and they don't fit?

Here you wouldn't have even tried to do anything about it. Your cash register receipt would have been given to you with this printed across it: "NO RETURNS!"

Merchants in Thailand don't really like their customers. They insist we accept that they have higher status than we do and therefore they make all the rules. They apparently assume that pissed off customers will quickly be replaced by new customers and are therefore are not worthy of any attention.

Gee, from the great success most Thai merchants achieve, you can see how well that works.....

[Nordlys]

I tend to agree with think_too_mut... If there's any same merchandise sold in Thailand that you can find in Tokyo, it tends to be cheaper in Tokyo... and that includes products with "made in Thailand" label.

As to the return policy, I was surprised to find when I bought one piece dress for my Thai wife a few years back at Eddie Bauer shop in Shinjuku, the store clerk told me I can return and exchange it for a new one whenever I return to Japan again at any Eddie Bauer outlet if the size won't fit my wife, even if that means more than a year after the purchase. But that might just be Eddie Bauer policy at every outlets in the world and nothing to do with Japan. Never heard of such a return policy in Thailand.

One thing I find it bewildered in Thailand is that they often sell demo products in second hand condition at the same price as the brand new, new-in-box merchandise whereas in Japan if it's been used for demo purpose that usually means automatic 30 - 40% off, even if it's been in glass case and in new condition.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Nordlys

[kyb789]

I came to this country with the thought of buying great quality clothes at a cheap price in the stores. After 2 yrs, I am still buying all my clothes back in the states during my visits home. Anything with a designer label or with quality attached to it costs me more in Thailand. Geez, I am buying socks made in China back home that last longer than anything I've bought here...at the same price.

[dannishgung]

I really doubt Siam Paragon can survive. All the major brand names like Channel, Hermes, LV, Gucci, Ferragamo, Versace ect all schedule to open in there. The major target of over 70% sales still target foreign tourists especially Japanese and other foreign customers.

A girl who works in one of Gayson's brand shop told me that she also very doubtful that all these sudden increase of brand name shops will all survive. Because the market is still so limited to the Japanese and other Asian and foreign customers and the sudden increses of the brand names shops in Gayson, and Siam Paragon with existing shops in Emporium and Pensinsula plaza.

Also the prices in Japan and other Asian countries are getting much cheaper now and maybe cheaper to buy in Japan's brand name shops than in Siam Paragon or Emporium now. Also Tokyo, Osaka, Hong Kong, Honolulu, ect tend to get new merchandises much earlier than Bangkok or southeast Asian countries. She told me many shops are losing big money but stay open to be flagship shop in Thailand. There is no more merits or advantages to buy in Bangkok anymore.

We will see what happen to all these brand name shops in Siam Paragon and Gayson. I would not be surprised to see them closed down after some times.

Edited January 16, 2006 by dannishgung

[buadhai]

We went into the Paragon a few days after it opened and the first thing I picked up to price was a rather plain white coffee mug different only in that in lieu of a handle it had two fabric pads glued to the side. This impractical object was priced at 920 Baht. My first thought was that I could buy a proper ceramic mug with a real handle for about 10 baht at the flea market near my house in Korat. In fact, both Ms. B and I are now drinking our coffee out of free mugs: one came with a gift pack of Ovaltine and the other was a New Year's present from the bakery.

A week or so later I went back to Paragon looking for a wool scarf for Ms. B. The cheapest one I found was very ordinary and cost 4K baht. I made a beeline for Central Chidlom and purchased a very nice cap and scarf set for less than one fourth the price.

Maybe there are people who can afford the Paragon and who truly want to pay those prices but I figure that once the novelty wears off the place will be a ghost town with most of the customers concentrated in the food court and lobby of the aquarium. People who actually want to buy stuff will certainly head elsewhere.

As for me, I might return in order to visit the lovely Kinokuniya bookstore; but that's about it.

Note to kyb789: I spent 26 years working on Saipan. During that time I never bought a pair of trousers or a dress shirt on-island -- I did all my shopping in either the US or Thailand.

[toyicebear]

ignorance is bliss..lol

If you want to buy something/anything at a good price in Bangkok the last place you want to go is Siam Paragon and Emporium... lol

[think_too_mut]

ignorance is bliss..lol

If you want to buy something/anything at a good price in Bangkok the last place you want to go is Siam Paragon and Emporium... lol

Yeah?

Where do you go for a good product? Chatuchak market?

[skylar]

ignorance is bliss..lol

If you want to buy something/anything at a good price in Bangkok the last place you want to go is Siam Paragon and Emporium... lol

Yeah?

Where do you go for a good product? Chatuchak market?

Use your common sense for heaven's sake. If you're looking for brand name stuff then Emporium and Paragon are the places you're after. I don't see why should brand name retailers be cheaper just because they are in Thailand than Japan, apart from the cheaper OH and VC - it means the retailers just make bigger margins. Although I heard that luxury accessories are cheaper in Japan than a lot of other countries because demand is just sky high for them. I won't buy trainers/runners/sneakers in Bangkok, because they are more expensive than anywhere I go normally.

If you want an Ovaltine mug, go for it. Personally, I love the free utensils that come with certain goods. If you want a 'unique' product, no matter how futile it is, it will be more expensive in a location that costs considerably more than your average supermarket's space.

[Phil Conners]

I read somewhere that merchants in Thailand feel you are privileged that they will sell you something you need (against some money) rather than the usual western idea that the customer is the one doing the merchant a favor by spending his dosh in that shop.

[Thaipwriter]

TTM, I take your point on board.

It's true that quality goods at reasonable prices are few and far between anywhere in Thailand.

The abundance of low quality goods piled high and sold cheap seems to keep most expats here ticking over quite nicely though.

Discerning expats in Thailand are a rare breed in my opinion.

Guys looking for the cheapest of everything far out number guys like you!

edit:farangs that cant spell are common too

Edited January 17, 2006 by Thaipwriter

[cclub75]

I really doubt Siam Paragon can survive. All the major brand names like Channel, Hermes, LV, Gucci, Ferragamo, Versace ect all schedule to open in there. The major target of over 70% sales still target foreign tourists especially Japanese and other foreign customers.

Indeed. And what about the "Zara" and "Mango" shops (not yet opened) ?

Thoses are 2 cheaps clothes brands (from Spain), in Europe ! It's very tasty to see thoses in "Siam Parangon".... the Parangon of the "Asian luxury bad taste".

Anyway, I agree, I foresee zero future for this shopping mall (it was full of people... underground in the food court).

As for prices... even electronic devices are cheaper in Europe (even with a VAT of 19.6 % !) Because the market is bigger, with volumes.

[flightcrew1]

I've been to Siam Paragon several times now. The first weekend it opened as I wanted to go to Kinokunya Bookshop since they were offering 20pct off the first four days. I'm delighted that we have a decent bookshop here now. I did/do shop the one at Emporium before but this is one is 4 times larger with a better variety of books.

That said...well I think the place is going to a huge "white elephant" after a few months. Matter of fact I was there yesterday sitting outside the skytrain entrance while a friend was smoking a cigarette and we were just chatting and people watching. In the half hour we sat outside only 1 customer (farang tourist) came out with a Siam Paragon Bag. No other brand name bags from any of the other stores. Who is shopping at Jimmy Choo shoes at 25,000 baht a pair. Yes they look great..but who?

The supermarket and food hall are great. But nothing I really can't find at Central Chidlom. Matter of fact I can find more at Chidlom. The one thing that bothered me was one concession was selling fried banana's and tara at 25B for 5 pieces. The same concession (same owner) at Emporium Food Hall sells for 10B for 5 pieces. I was amazed and asked why...he laughed and said this is Siam Paragon. Over the Christmas I did buy a load of wine which was reasonable. But again nothing I could not have bought at Wine Connection on Soi Convent.

[ovenman]

I tend to agree with think_too_mut... If there's any same merchandise sold in Thailand that you can find in Tokyo, it tends to be cheaper in Tokyo... and that includes products with "made in Thailand" label.

This is the underlying problem with the pipedream of making Bangkok the shopping hub of Asia. If the Thai stores cannot or will not compete on price for branded goods, shoppers will never come in droves as they do to places like Singapore or Hong Kong.

[The Coder]

If the Thai stores cannot or will not compete on price for branded goods, shoppers will never come in droves as they do to places like Singapore or Hong Kong.

And some here may not know this not only applies to foreigners, but also to well to do Thai's. In fact, so many well to do Thai's go to Hong Kong for shopping sprees that most places have a thai speaking salesperson on hand.

[ovenman]

Bottom line is that at some point the government needs to decide whether it seriously wants a shopping hub or whether it wants to continue viewing imported goods as a vehicle for extracting high duty taxes. They can't really do both.

[think_too_mut]

Bottom line is that at some point the government needs to decide whether it seriously wants a shopping hub or whether it wants to continue viewing imported goods as a vehicle for extracting high duty taxes. They can't really do both.

I believe the retailers should understand that brand name products are cheaper in Hong Kong or Singapore.

At the end of the day, they pay 1/4 of the rent and 1/10 of the salaries their competitors (HK, Singapore) do.

If they want to attract many shoppers, they should pass some of the savings to the public.

If not (as it is now) even Thais would go elsewhere for shopping.

How could Bumrungrad and Samitivej (possibly other hospitals and dental clinics) do their trade at a fraction of the cost (as in the West) and still be considered good, even world-class?

[dantilley]

Been to Siam Paragon a couple of times, been filled with people both times but no-one anywhere seems to be buying anything! Seems like people are just admiring the Ferraris and Lambourghinis, or just enjoying the air conditioning.

Edited January 19, 2006 by dantilley

[buadhai]

I've now developed sort of a different attitude towards places like Gaysorn, Paragon and Emporium. Think of them as museums where you can observe the trappings of the lifestyles of the rich and pampered. Best thing is, they're free. And, no dual pricing. And, when you're done with your gazing, chances are there are places where you can actually afford to shop not too far away. Big C close to Gaysorn, MBK close to Paragon and Lotus or Robinson not too far from Emporium.

[Buki]

Before I came here last month, I have heard that Bangkok was a shopping haven and that shopping here is considered cheap. To my surprise, I realize that the prices of their wares are a lot expensive compared to the ones back home. Though there are less designers outlets in my country, for the reason that they know that only a few can afford it. But there are places that I can buy cheap clothes. Though in Singapore, it is quite pricey, 1 dollar is about 1.6 Sing dollar, so its like spending dollars already in Singapore.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Buki

[Butterfly]

Has anyone noticed how rough those finition are in Paragon ? A lot of details that makes the place not so "classy"

It's rough when you look at the details, things that the consumers they target will notice when shopping. It doesn't bring credibility to the place.

[lost_in_isaan]

finition = finishings?

I'm not sure about Paragon but I noticed the same thing in Emporium after their gazillion baht Parisian concept makeover. You would think that after spending that amount of money they would make sure the details are taken care of. Instead there were plenty of rough edges and dirty glass.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Has anyone noticed how rough those finition are in Paragon ? A lot of details that makes the place not so "classy"

It's rough when you look at the details, things that the consumers they target will notice when shopping. It doesn't bring credibility to the place.

Isn't the whole Thailand a bit rough? Think about service, sometimes even in expensive places...

[jdinasia]

OK ... is it just me? (well no ... other people have mentioned alternatives) BUT ......

Emporium and Siam Paragon and Gaysorn are places for people that are looking for Status while shopping. NOT price. (Sadly I agree that most of the time the service isn't that great.) I do reccomend the personal shooper services around if you want to get good service.

However .... the deals are still available here. Just takes work to find. Pratunam etc. However ... wherever you come from the chances are the outlet malls there have better deals than any of the major stores here other than the occassional sale at Central or Robinson's.

Now ... Try buying a great handcrafted suit anywhere I have been but here and Vietnam for under $200 USD ..... never happen. 4-5 tailored shirts for $100 USD? ... never happen.

Edited February 22, 2006 by jdinasia

[Caoimhín]

Just been into Emporium for the first time as I needed some underwear. The shops must be struggling as they all seemed to be empty of merchandise especially anything a middle aged, middle class westerner like me wanted to buy, so I soon left. Seemed very busy though but not sure what the point of Emporium is, plenty of 'quality' for a cheaper price elsewhere.

[OldAsiaHand]

Emporium and Siam Paragon and Gaysorn are places for people that are looking for Status while shopping. Now ... Try buying a great handcrafted suit anywhere I have been but here and Vietnam for under $200 USD ..... never happen. 4-5 tailored shirts for $100 USD? ... never happen.

I don't agree. My experience is that, generally, when you pay $25 for a shirt, you get $25 worth of shirt. Yes, there are bargains around, but not often.

The people who shop in the Emporium aren't looking for $25 worth or shirt, or $200 worth of suit for that matter. They're looking for brand names they like and are prepared, and able, to pay the price for them.

If you think what you're getting in Pratunam is quality, then be happy with it and with what you paid for it. But don't sneer at others who have a different idea of qualitity and blow them off as 'looking for status while shopping.'

[jdinasia]

If the shoe fits! <<Vain attempt at clothing humor>>

If you choose to buy the same products available elsewhere for less, then there's gotta be a reason. Yeah I shop at Pratunam and at Robinsons and at Central etc etc etc. I'm not going to buy a shirt at Emporium for 1800 baht that I can buy at Central for 1200 baht the same day!

If you choose where to buy based upon the store and not upon the product then it's about status <imho>

Edited February 22, 2006 by jdinasia

[uhuh]

"The same concession (same owner) at Emporium Food Hall sells for 10B for 5 pieces. I was amazed and asked why...he laughed and said this is Siam Paragon."

Yes. This is not the only concession who does this. You are supposed to pay for the privilege of shopping at Paragon.

But sales are slow at Paragon, gf works there and sales in her shop are 70% less than expected. Oh, and she tells me the farangs complain about the prices...lol

Edited February 22, 2006 by uhuh

[TRIPxCORE]

Siam Paragon will wind up just like the Emporium is now. The one and only time I went to Siam Paragon it was just full of people walking the halls, window shopping and browsing the food court. Of course almost no one were in any of the over-priced shops. IMO, most of the people are there to say they have been there. Its a status thing for a lot of Thais. The next day a women can interject in a conversation among her girlfriends talking about the place to say "Ya, I went there yesterday. Aren't I special"? Or a man could be at work and interject in a conversation among his co-workers about the place saying, "Ya, I was there yesterday and I sat in the Ferrari, ate at a great restaurant and had a grand time". The place has had so much hype and so much publicity that you just wouldn't be cool if you didnt go to see it. Its not about shopping there. Its just about being there. Apperances!

To me, the place isnt worth my time. I spent literally 10 minutes waiting for a lift to arrive at my floor just to see how long it would take. After 10 minutes I felt like a complete idiot for waiting and left. The thing still hadn't come yet! In the future, the only reason I would visit that place is the same reason I ever bother to visit the Emporium. Only to go see a movie and perhaps to eat. That is it, same like everyone else.

[englishoak]

Siam, emporium etc are just over priced stores selling the same stuff you can get as cheap elsewhere. I was surprised at first but hey ho ..........

It is a status thing and a$25 shirt their is about the same quality as on in the uk for a similar price