2009 Click Fi: Backfire And Hard To Start

[Turkleton]

My wife got a nearly three years old Honda Click 110i from her friend, who left the country.

The bike was stored for almost two years and was never started all the time.

So, after I cleaned the tank, fuel pump and put new fuel into the tank, I could start the bike.

But the idling is poor and the engine tends to stall, if it is on low temperature. Its better when the engine is warm.

When I test-rode it, I noticed that the engine is backfiring sometimes.

My wife has a 2010 Scoopy, with an identical injection system.

So I swapped the complete Injection, part for part, from the Click into the Scoopy, to locate faulty parts.

But the Scoopy ran fine, even with the complete injection system from the Click... .

Everything back into the Click and poor running again.

So I have only two or three ideas more:

1. faulty sensor(s) for the ignition/injection (does somebody have a repair manual?)

2. valves not tight (rust or valve clearance), would also explain the backfire.

3. or something else

Any more or better ideas?

And no, this bike will definitely never see Somchai's garage from inside...

[Kwasaki]

You can get most service manuals online.

Have you checked the air filter.

Have you changed the plug and checked the leads.

Electrical connection may need cleaning up and checking.

Could be a mapping problem and for that, the easy way is a Honda service dealer.

Poor Running at Low Speed :-

Battery voltage low.

Spark plug dirty, faulty, maladjusted.

Air passage clogged.

Air cleaner clogged.

[Turkleton]

You can get most service manuals online

No luck until now. I googled for Click and Elite/NHX/Lead, because of the same engine.

Have you checked the air filter.

Have you changed the plug and checked the leads

Plug is new, with or without air filter makes no difference.

Electrical connection may need cleaning up and checking.

Battery voltage....hmm, I will check it.

But first, I check valve clearance now.

And it seems, some Somchai tinkered something before. There are some patched cables...

Overall power seems to be ok, compared with the Scoopy. No real difference

I am sure, its only a little "something"...but what.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Turkleton

[martindavies]

Are you using regular fuel or Gasahol?

[bikkalad]

Patched cables?..... Would have a good look at them

......might be braking Down somewhat?.. Resolder and heat shrink or tape,see if that helps? Does it have a kill switch problem? Battery terminals corroded?

[Turkleton]

Are you using regular fuel or Gasahol?

After I cleaned the tank, I put regular fuel 91 (the red, expensive one) into the bike.

Does it have a kill switch problem?

Yep the sidestand, but bridged already..

Voltage is ~13.5V when idling.

I adjusted the valve clearance, (inlet was 0!). Seems to run much smoother, no backfire so far, but I couldn't test ride it.

Will test it tommorow and report whats going on..

Thanks so far for everybody's help

[BSJ]

Never worked on one myself, but I reckon it could be a timing problem.

Workshop manuals are designed to confuse the average shade tree mechanic, hence the lack of manuals in your average Thai service department.

[Turkleton]

Grrr...same as before.

Again, hard to start and the engine dies immediately, if I twist the grip a little bit more quickly.

Its better when the engine is hot.

What I found out: If I turn the ignition switch on and off 3-4 times before starting, the engine starts much better, nearly like it *should be*.

Fuel pump? Tomorrow I will test the fuel pump from wifes Scoopy with the Click.

Never worked on one myself, but I reckon it could be a timing problem.

Could be possible. I hope, I can find the timing marks without a manual...

[taichiplanet]

No doubt you done this but did you try swapping batteries? Sometimes a battery is down on one cell. Might also be an earth problem, check the earth cable is clean and secure at the frame.

[Lickey]

I would say you are on the right track with the ignition switch Turk, many older Hondas that come to the mrs salon/shop ive seen the riders switch the ignition on and off several times before they will start, even the elec start later models,

Probaly a sealed unit so striping the panels ect off might be non-productive, try squirting some WD40 or similar down the keyhole, put the key in and work a few times, it might help some gungy or burnt contacts in the lower part..

[Turkleton]

The ignition switch is ok, the bikes starts always.

But compared with wifes Scoopy and my Wave, which always start within 1-2 seconds of cranking, the Click sometimes needs up to 10 seconds or even 2-3 tries.

What I meant, is: if I turn the ignition on+off, the electrical fuel pump is always running for 3 seconds.

My idea is, that the fuel pressure/amount is not sufficient, but after running the fuel pump three times the pressure is ok for starting the bike.

I just tried to start the bike 5 min. ago. It started ok (after the on-off trick). But the engine dies immediately, when I twist the grip.

Good to have a "spare fuel pump" (wifes Scoopy) for testing purposes...

Edited August 7, 2012 by Turkleton

[Kwasaki]

The ignition switch is ok, the bikes starts always.

But compared with wifes Scoopy and my Wave, which always start within 1-2 seconds of cranking, the Click sometimes needs up to 10 seconds or even 2-3 tries.

What I meant, is: if I turn the ignition on+off, the electrical fuel pump is always running for 3 seconds.

My idea is, that the fuel pressure/amount is not sufficient, but after running the fuel pump three times the pressure is ok for starting the bike.

I just tried to start the bike 5 min. ago. It started ok (after the on-off trick). But the engine dies immediately, when I twist the grip.

Good to have a "spare fuel pump" (wifes Scoopy) for testing purposes...

" But the engine dies immediately "

Have swapped the ECU from the Scoopy yet ??

Edited August 7, 2012 by Kwasaki

[Turkleton]

Have swapped the ECU from the Scoopy yet ??

yep, makes no difference.

Scoopy runs good, Click crappy

[Lickey]

Perhaps there is a blocked gauze filter in the fuel tank, sounds like the pump is hunting for fuel,

[Turkleton]

Ok, at least, I located the problem...

The temperature sensor was broken.

It should have a resistance of ~2000 Ohm when the engine is cold and going down to 200 ohm when hot.

But it had just ~10 ohm, cold or hot. Replaced it and now everything is ok.

I was not able to find a service manual for this bike, but I have a repair manual from a Wave 125i with a nice temperature diagram regarding this sensor.

This was the only thing I couldn't swap+test, because of different threads and connectors. (Click=water-cooled, Scoopy=air-cooled)

thanks to everybody for your help and suggestions

[Garry]

Thanks for the feedback & follow up. This temp sensor fault was obviously driving the bike ECU crazy with bogus signals.

Regardless of the size or type of bike, faults like this can ail any bike. Something else to note for my workshop memory. Thanks again :-)

Sent from my iPhone 3 using ThaiVisa app

[Lickey]

Yes, agree with Gary, thankyou for telling us what the problem was, theres not many posters who say thanks for other posters thoughts and ideas,

[BSJ]

It's often something you least expect!

[Kwasaki]

Ok, at least, I located the problem...

The temperature sensor was broken.

It should have a resistance of ~2000 Ohm when the engine is cold and going down to 200 ohm when hot.

But it had just ~10 ohm, cold or hot. Replaced it and now everything is ok.

I was not able to find a service manual for this bike, but I have a repair manual from a Wave 125i with a nice temperature diagram regarding this sensor.

This was the only thing I couldn't swap+test, because of different threads and connectors. (Click=water-cooled, Scoopy=air-cooled)

thanks to everybody for your help and suggestions

Glad your sorted, good old multimeter eh !!

It would be good if there was a plug in device one could use with a home computer and check things out like this.

I sensed it maybe a sensor.

[dickyknee]

I was not able to find a service manual for this bike

http://www.aphonda.co.th/technology/manual.html

It would be good if there was a plug in device one could use with a home computer and check things out like this.

there is a data link connector, no doubt that there is a honda diagnostics box to plug in here. otherwise the manual shows how to jumper this connector and it will start flashing the check engine light with any error codes.

[vel_tins]

http://www.aphonda.c...ogy/manual.html

Unfortunately in Thai

But better than nothing..

Now I need to find somebody, who can translate it....

Edited August 10, 2012 by vel_tins

[Garry]

Yes, agree with Gary, thankyou for telling us what the problem was, theres not many posters who say thanks for other posters thoughts and ideas,

Hi Lickey,

Thanks and I'm just following the netiquette that I've been using on model specific forums that I've been a part of for many years. These two websites below are a wealth of information for enthusiasts like myself. One would expect that smaller bikes would have similar forum's abound.

www.ducati-superbikes.com

www.ducati.ms

Sent from my iPhone 3 using ThaiVisa app

[Turkleton]

One would expect that smaller bikes would have similar forum's abound.

There are loads of smaller bike forum's, but unfortunately not here in Thailand.

Or I was just to blind, to find them.

Some english forum's regarding the Honda Lead/Elite/NHX (similar to the Click). But nobody could provide a service manual.

I also found some filipine/malayan forum's. Seems they are much more interested in their bikes, than Thai's.

I also think, most Thai don't care about technical things (most won't understand them anyway.)

They bring their bike to the next "Somchai" and period.

But even if you find a Thai bike forum, I think the language barrier is too high, especially when it comes to technical things.

[Garry]

One would expect that smaller bikes would have similar forum's abound.

There are loads of smaller bike forum's, but unfortunately not here in Thailand.

Or I was just to blind, to find them.

Some english forum's regarding the Honda Lead/Elite/NHX (similar to the Click). But nobody could provide a service manual.

I also found some filipine/malayan forum's. Seems they are much more interested in their bikes, than Thai's.

I also think, most Thai don't care about technical things (most won't understand them anyway.)

They bring their bike to the next "Somchai" and period.

But even if you find a Thai bike forum, I think the language barrier is too high, especially when it comes to technical things.

You've hit the nail on the head. Most of my info I gain from overseas forums. Fortunately with the Net, one is not hamstrung to only have to source local forum content.

Sent from my iPhone 3 using ThaiVisa app

Edited August 10, 2012 by Garry

[dickyknee]

http://www.aphonda.c...ogy/manual.html

Unfortunately in Thai

But better than nothing..

Now I need to find somebody, who can translate it....

forrest through the trees imo.

[rizla]

Ok, at least, I located the problem...

The temperature sensor was broken.

It should have a resistance of ~2000 Ohm when the engine is cold and going down to 200 ohm when hot.

But it had just ~10 ohm, cold or hot. Replaced it and now everything is ok.

I was not able to find a service manual for this bike, but I have a repair manual from a Wave 125i with a nice temperature diagram regarding this sensor.

This was the only thing I couldn't swap+test, because of different threads and connectors. (Click=water-cooled, Scoopy=air-cooled)

thanks to everybody for your help and suggestions

Hi i have the exact same issue on my g/f s 2009 fi click

What i`ve done so far

air filter checked/changed

fuel 91 benzine

plug pulled, gap set to correct gap (feelers)

fuel filter cleaned and delivery through to injector checked, spraying fine

all plugs wd40 `d

battery fully charged, and tight

etc etc...

Ok, so which sensor is it exactly please...there seems to be two on the right side of the engine, i`ve pulled the one with the two pins but there is another one below it with a single line to it ?

The one i pulled goes into the water cooling circuit...thanks

Edited September 5, 2012 by rizla

[rizla]

Ok, at least, I located the problem...

The temperature sensor was broken.

It should have a resistance of ~2000 Ohm when the engine is cold and going down to 200 ohm when hot.

But it had just ~10 ohm, cold or hot. Replaced it and now everything is ok.

I was not able to find a service manual for this bike, but I have a repair manual from a Wave 125i with a nice temperature diagram regarding this sensor.

This was the only thing I couldn't swap+test, because of different threads and connectors. (Click=water-cooled, Scoopy=air-cooled)

thanks to everybody for your help and suggestions

Hi i have the exact same issue on my g/f s 2009 fi click

What i`ve done so far

air filter checked/changed

fuel 91 benzine

plug pulled, gap set to correct gap (feelers)

fuel filter cleaned and delivery through to injector checked, spraying fine

all plugs wd40 `d

battery fully charged, and tight

etc etc...

Ok, so which sensor is it exactly please...there seems to be two on the right side of the engine, i`ve pulled the one with the two pins but there is another one below it with a single line to it ?

The one i pulled goes into the water cooling circuit...thanks

Oh, and the cost of such sensor...thanks again

[Turkleton]

Ok, so which sensor is it exactly please...there seems to be two on the right side of the engine, i`ve pulled the one with the two pins but there is another one below it with a single line to it ?

The one i pulled goes into the water cooling circuit...thanks

Yepp, this is right one, the one with the single line is the air-sensor.

[rizla]

Ok, so which sensor is it exactly please...there seems to be two on the right side of the engine, i`ve pulled the one with the two pins but there is another one below it with a single line to it ?

The one i pulled goes into the water cooling circuit...thanks

Yepp, this is right one, the one with the single line is the air-sensor.

Thanks, not in stock but have ordered one...250 bhat....i`ll report back when fitted..

[Turkleton]

Ahh forgot to mention, the fuel filter, fitted at the fuel pump tends to disintegrate. Take out the fuel pump and check it.