Thaiquila Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 OK, so wine lovers all know by now that they will have to shell out beaucoup de baht to get anything better than plonk, so what gives? Why, exactly, does this situation exist? I think in general it is clear that Thailand is not a traditional wine drinking culture and most wine is imported, so it is in the country's interest to tax it heavily as a luxury to discourage more foreign debt. Also, perhaps, it is seen as a farang thing and a way to soak farangs, who when push comes to shove, will buy wine when they need, no matter the ridiculous price. I also get that restaurants add insult to injury by not offering wine friendly prices. It seems like 1000 baht a bottle in a resto doesn't even insure getting something that is more than one dimensional taste. To break it down, lets take a basic, servicable Argentian Malbec that would cost about 120 baht in a supermarket in Argentina. How does this same bottle end up being something like 1500 baht in a retail market in Thailand? How much of the markup would be shipping, how much tax, and how much retail profit? (Posted in general for a reason, but maybe it belongs in Western food.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketsiam Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 300% import tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiquila Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 300% import tax That would explain alot. Do you know for a fact that the 300 percent tax applies to wine, and to wine from all countries? Or does wine from some countries get a better rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 There was talk that the recent Australia-Thailand FTA would reduce the amount of tax on imported Aussi wine, but nothing has come of it to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Australian wine that is 15A$ in Sydney is 600B in the booze shops attached to Lotus. I's about 150B markup. If you bought 2 bottles, it was 900B for both. At that price, it's the same as in Oz. Could be Oz taxes wine 300% too. Those removed, bring the prices 20% lower when sold in the US or UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Croc Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 There was talk that the recent Australia-Thailand FTA would reduce the amount of tax on imported Aussi wine, but nothing has come of it to date. The FTA is being phased in over a 5-10 year period. Should be able to get reasonably priced Oz wine eventually, but may take years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackula Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 In addition to Thailand's ludicrious import taxes: Traditionally bars and restaurants located in hotels operate on a 25% beverage cost.That means that the bottle of wine that the hotel pays 400 Baht for in a shop would cost you 1,600. It used to be easy money for the hotels but times are (thankfully) changing. Some hotels have seen the light and are starting to apply supermarket type pricing and mark-ups i.e. 50~100 Baht/bottle which they can justify via storage and labour costs. What they lose in revenue per bottle they can recoup in the increase in sales volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khall64au Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 In addition to Thailand's ludicrious import taxes:Traditionally bars and restaurants located in hotels operate on a 25% beverage cost.That means that the bottle of wine that the hotel pays 400 Baht for in a shop would cost you 1,600. It used to be easy money for the hotels but times are (thankfully) changing. Some hotels have seen the light and are starting to apply supermarket type pricing and mark-ups i.e. 50~100 Baht/bottle which they can justify via storage and labour costs. What they lose in revenue per bottle they can recoup in the increase in sales volume. Not in the wine bars around my neighbourhood....they just don't get it! And they wonder why people don't pop in like they used to? 150 - 240 baht per glass of average wine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Croc Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 In addition to Thailand's ludicrious import taxes: Traditionally bars and restaurants located in hotels operate on a 25% beverage cost.That means that the bottle of wine that the hotel pays 400 Baht for in a shop would cost you 1,600. It used to be easy money for the hotels but times are (thankfully) changing. Some hotels have seen the light and are starting to apply supermarket type pricing and mark-ups i.e. 50~100 Baht/bottle which they can justify via storage and labour costs. What they lose in revenue per bottle they can recoup in the increase in sales volume. Not in the wine bars around my neighbourhood....they just don't get it! And they wonder why people don't pop in like they used to? 150 - 240 baht per glass of average wine? You should try returning to Oz. Restaurants in Perth typically add 100 - 200% on to bottle shop prices. At least you can bring your own to most, albeit with a corkage charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khall64au Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 In addition to Thailand's ludicrious import taxes: Traditionally bars and restaurants located in hotels operate on a 25% beverage cost.That means that the bottle of wine that the hotel pays 400 Baht for in a shop would cost you 1,600. It used to be easy money for the hotels but times are (thankfully) changing. Some hotels have seen the light and are starting to apply supermarket type pricing and mark-ups i.e. 50~100 Baht/bottle which they can justify via storage and labour costs. What they lose in revenue per bottle they can recoup in the increase in sales volume. Not in the wine bars around my neighbourhood....they just don't get it! And they wonder why people don't pop in like they used to? 150 - 240 baht per glass of average wine? Old Croc... Aus$5-8 per glass of wine in (Phuket) Thailand is fugging outrageous for mediocre, average wine.......... think about it>! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Croc Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) In addition to Thailand's ludicrious import taxes: Traditionally bars and restaurants located in hotels operate on a 25% beverage cost.That means that the bottle of wine that the hotel pays 400 Baht for in a shop would cost you 1,600. It used to be easy money for the hotels but times are (thankfully) changing. Some hotels have seen the light and are starting to apply supermarket type pricing and mark-ups i.e. 50~100 Baht/bottle which they can justify via storage and labour costs. What they lose in revenue per bottle they can recoup in the increase in sales volume. Not in the wine bars around my neighbourhood....they just don't get it! And they wonder why people don't pop in like they used to? 150 - 240 baht per glass of average wine? Old Croc... Aus$5-8 per glass of wine in (Phuket) Thailand is fugging outrageous for mediocre, average wine.......... think about it>! I don't disagree. Just made a point about the rippoffs restaurants in Oz perpetuate to boost profits they can't make from food. Edited January 23, 2006 by Old Croc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khall64au Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Time and time again... I have thought that a good wine bar or franchised six outlets - would be a good proposition on Phuket. I guess no one else has come up with the same plan? I'd do it... but I just don't have the capital is all! It'd be a winner....... that's all I have to say about that!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naka Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 A bottle of reasonable Aussie red like Orlando Jacobs Creek is available on the web from an .au site for A$ 15.97. That's Bt 468. The same wine from Lotus, Tops etc is usually around Bt 560, that seems a reasonable price to me. Naka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 When I lived in the UK I set up a vineyard on my property (it was a very sunny location for the UK...). Perhaps I should do the same thing in Thailand! (I know that Siam Wineries has a lot of vineyards here, set up by a Frenchman I think. Don't discount all Thai wines because there are some good wines out there - and cheap!) Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierra01 Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 When I lived in the UK I set up a vineyard on my property (it was a very sunny location for the UK...). Perhaps I should do the same thing in Thailand!(I know that Siam Wineries has a lot of vineyards here, set up by a Frenchman I think. Don't discount all Thai wines because there are some good wines out there - and cheap!) Simon Can you list a few please Simon, and where to get them if poss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prudent_rabbit Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 The tax is 300% for local wines and 400% for overseas wines, bloomin expensive what ever way you look at it. I did see some wine at 160 baht a bottle but as the cost of that 160 baht is 300% tax, I doubt its good taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiquila Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Those taxes are so high you can't help getting the message that they think wine is a bad thing, and that is just, wrong, so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 If imported hard liquor cost about the same as good imported or local wine people would drink wine more often. If wine drinking becomes fashionable and affordable it's possible to ween social drinkers off Black Label and Chivas. Then they might start drinking wine instead of 100 Pipers at home.There will be very nice side effects in terms of general health and lower alcoholism rates. I mean the amount of alcohol people buy for the same money. There's a big choice of wines under 1000 baht but a bottle of whiskey can keep a whole company happy, unlike a bottle of wine. Problem is the cheap stuff they can afford - it's largely undrinkable and you can't popularise wine that tastes so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Those taxes are so high you can't help getting the message that they think wine is a bad thing, and that is just, wrong, so wrong. That sounds like Debbie Boone saying "How can it be wrong if it feels so right"? TQ - don't be a penny-pincher. Spend that money cause they don't allow Brinks trucks at them funeral processions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiquila Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) Those taxes are so high you can't help getting the message that they think wine is a bad thing, and that is just, wrong, so wrong. That sounds like Debbie Boone saying "How can it be wrong if it feels so right"? TQ - don't be a penny-pincher. Spend that money cause they don't allow Brinks trucks at them funeral processions... True, but I am on a budget and wine is a horrible value in Thailand. It is a shame because wine in moderation is very healthy. I think it is healthy to drink a little alchohol every day for the heart, so I will just go local, and drink hard liquor instead. I think the Thai government is very misguided in their anti wine policies, but like any country, the people get the government they deserve, and I accept this as the way it is (I was just curious as to why the price was so high), one of the downsides of life in Thailand. Edited January 24, 2006 by Thaiquila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Bob Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I was in the OTOP shop near sofitel in khon kaen the other day and they had quite a good range of wines in the 150-200bt range - all produced in thailand all from loei i think. Dont know what it tastes like but will give it a try soon. If anyone knows a good wine in this price range would be interested o know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool Water Palace Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Is there much (any?) home wine making in LOS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I was in the OTOP shop near sofitel in khon kaen the other day and they had quite a good range of wines in the 150-200bt range - all produced in thailand all from loei i think. Dont know what it tastes like but will give it a try soon.If anyone knows a good wine in this price range would be interested o know... Once you've tasted Thai-produced wine, you won't go back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooo Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 There is a new winery project up north,don't know the exact details but I will try & search & post. As for price of wine, I can only comment on Aus ones.They seem to have got cheaper over the last year or so.The quality we get here is OK.A mate of mine has a wine shop in Sydney & the prices are still on par,could be a smidgin higher.Could be that wine manufacturers are trying hard to crack Thai market , hence supplying our market here at below AUS market price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I had a lovely bottle of Thai red wine last night... named Pirom, Khao Yai Reserve.. a 2004 Tempranillo, estate bottled by the Khao Yai Winery. It could probably have done with aging another year or so in the bottle, but it was one of the best Thai reds I've ever had. I couldn't tell you how much it cost though... a new year's present... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyk Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Oh so tiresome these whinges about how its not how I want things to be and why THEY are wrong blahblahblah. THEY run their country the way it suits THEM, not for the benefit of falangs. What part of this do some people not understand? Get on the plane and go home or stop whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 The duties on Aussie wines have a set timetable for reduction - there is a web site that sets this out (try FTA Thailand Australia in Google). I think the preiod is 5 to 10 years. Europe however has not negotiated anything yet which leaves us with the nightmare prospect of the only cheap wine in Thailand being Aussie wine - AAAAARGH! Aussie wine is in fact cheaper in the UK than in Oz, so one must assume that at home the Aussies are paying a duty on the stuff. The import duty to Thailand would be levied on the pre-tax cost...hence the relatively small price differential. Now - can we import and store some decent European or S. American wines at a reasonable price please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 You can get reasonably good quality Chilean wines at reasonable prices here. Admittedly, they're the "quaff now" types, and not really meant for laying down for a few years, but they're still quite drinkable. Just my 2 satangs worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chang_paarp Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 The Oz government love wine and any alcohol sales. They have a duty of Au$45/litre of alcohol (1L wiskey @ 50% = $22.50 duty) plus the wine addtracts the WET (Wine Equalisation Tax) tax as part of the GST. So your $10 bottle of wine can give the government $4-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleyboy Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Is there much (any?) home wine making in LOS? I am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong but i am sure i read somewhere home brewing of any sort is illegal in Thailand. Wouldnt be fair on the govt if nobody paid their ridiculous taxes on booze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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