Are Falang Bars/restaurants Actually Worth The Hassle?

[Plucky]

I'm not thinking of going down this route. It is just that I see many about and wonder if the bother of ownership is offset by the benefit of having your own business etc. The idea of opening something over here seems fraught with problems but do-able.

I would be interested in any experiences people have had in this arena whether they have been huge successes or nightmares.

Edited September 17, 2012 by pimping

[OZEMADE]

Basically NO.

I know a lot of people and friends that went down this path renting, purchasing bars and even making bread in a shop.

All went broke and the only ones that survive are the owners of the building/premises and of course the staff and Police that you had to pay.

As a foreigner you cant work there unless you have a business visa etc, you cant even stack the beer shelves, as this is taking away the employment of a Thai, you cant go behind the bar even if you own it and you dont have a business visa.

Nah give it a miss and enjoy life.

[Plucky]

Jesus that's harsh. I wonder how many people have lost the shirts off their back and everything they grafted years for back home?

[RealisticRon]

Yes it is if you've only ever worked for yourself all your life. If you've only ever had a boss like most folk you've got about 0 chance of it working.

[MrRealDeal]

That pretty much depends on your tolernce for "hassel" and you skill at owning a bar or resturaunt , for one person yes for another absolutely not.

[RudieTheFoodie]

If you open up and have no idea about the business and therefore no high quality product, even if you start with a lot - you will lose it all eventually. If however you are experienced and have an excellent product - you have a good chance of success.

[Swiss1960]

First, you need to deal with all the legal issues of ownership and being allowed to work in your own business... basically, as owner of a bar, you are not even allowed to clean the tables without a work permit...

Second, you need to have a clear business plan... do you want to open a beer bar or a high-end restaurant? Do you have the know-how for such a business?

Third, you need to be ready and willing to work 7 days a week in your own business and treat yourself like a slave to keep it up and deal with all the hassle with staff not showing up for work the day after you paid their salary...

If you think you can manage all this - yes, you can have highly successful foreign-owned and managed businesses, but the only ones I have ever seen are high-end restaurants or pubs like Bruno's or Mulligans (both in Pattaya), so far I have never seen a successful foreign-owned beer-bar / girlie-bar.

[KNJ]

What rubbish, I know many expats that have highly successful businesses, some who actually arrived in Thailand with nothing.

Doing business, whether a bar or anything else is about one thing business.

Plannning and reasearch, being able to identify risk, capitalise on opprtunities, business accumen, financial understanding people management, customer service, the right product, the placement are all key.

If you cannot make a success in your home country then it is increasingly likely you will be able to make a success in Thailand. That is where we see so many failures, people sell up there house, or split it with their ex and think they can just rock up with a pot of money ( many times insufficient ) and buy a vbusiness, whilst having done non of the above on a limited shoestring and make money are the vast majority of those that fail.

If you are not a millionaire by 30 statistically you are never likely to be.

If you want to make money, in most cases you need money not only for investment but running costs as well, and additionally money to live until you are in profit.

Back to teh Bar question I have known many failures but equally a large number of successes. It can be done. Not a route I would want to take as it is damm hard work,

Good Luck

[chrisinth]

Basically NO.

I know a lot of people and friends that went down this path renting, purchasing bars and even making bread in a shop.

All went broke and the only ones that survive are the owners of the building/premises and of course the staff and Police that you had to pay.

As a foreigner you cant work there unless you have a business visa etc, you cant even stack the beer shelves, as this is taking away the employment of a Thai, you cant go behind the bar even if you own it and you dont have a business visa.

Nah give it a miss and enjoy life.

The business visa means nothing. If you are caught behind the bar and you don't have a work permit, for that place of work, then your problems begin

[Morakot]

Falang Bars? Who wants this? Most people want beer at a bar...

[meatboy]

back in the 80's when patts.was booming i saw a lot go under,you are only putting money in other people's pockets,went back to patts.last year did not see one that i knew.safer in the bank.

[ThaidDown]

If you are talking about a bar or a bar that sells food then certainly agree with OZEMADE's 'Basically no'

Over the years I've known (or known of) a few, and I stress a few , that have made reasonable money, I've also known more that have survived or are surviving. That means they are covering their (frugal) living expenses each month. Of these I know of two that go back to the UK each low season to do mini-cabbing to eke out a living here.

That leaves the large majority that have lost money, some almost all they had. Its not a rosy picture, even if you do make money the landlord hearing of this may triple the rent at the next renewal.

Also if you have no experience of running/managing a bar or restaurant it would be even harder.

[cdnvic]

If the person is experienced in the trade from before and do their research beforehand, it can be a good living and an asset to the community. If the potential owner is not experienced and at any time uttered the phrase "How hard can it be?" they should save themselves a lot of pain, and their customers a lot of dysentery by simply flushing half their money down the loo and being thankful they got off luckier than most.

[BookMan]

If you are not a millionaire by 30 statistically you are never likely to be.

This seems most unlikely. Where do you get the information for this?

[Morakot]

If you are not a millionaire by 30 statistically you are never likely to be.

This seems most unlikely. Where do you get the information for this?

75% of statistics are made up on the spot, including this one.

[RealisticRon]

Spain for years and years had plane loads of mugs landing daily with their life savings and opening a business when they've never had a business in their lives. Most failed, got divorced, became alcoholics and went home. It used to be a joke when an easyjet plane flew in to land in the distance "another plane load of mugs"

No different here except most folk come here single.

[submaniac]

Jesus that's harsh. I wonder how many people have lost the shirts off their back and everything they grafted years for back home?

Well if you ask a question and you want an honest response...I mean would you rather hear the truth or should we say what you want us to say?

It's like this. You're not the first to ask about owning a restaurant or bar. This has been discussed before. The people that actually did it came out of the woodwork. The near unanimous opinion is that it is ALOT of grief. Ask smokie about his bar. There's another post in the past three weeks (from one of our Scandanivian posters) who opened up a restaurant and got denied a liquor license because it was near a school. There's posts from other members whose wives opened up a restaurant and they were merely "helping" in the restaurant and they got shaken down by the police. To be honest I can't really think of one post off the top of my head where I have ever read where a TV poster told a "success story" about opening a restaurant or bar. I have read "success stories" by posters (which I never know if it is true or not) about their business, but those aren't restaurant or bars.

The big issue is that as a non Thai you aren't supposed to work and all that. Supposing you could overcome that (which is difficult, but not impossible) you still have to run a business. Like finding a place, paying rent, paying employees, paying bills and whatnot. Yeah, when I started up from working for other people to doing it myself I learned alot of appreciation for what my previous employers had to put up with. It sounds so easy initially in your head, but once you actually try and do it....

[KNJ]

If you are not a millionaire by 30 statistically you are never likely to be.

This seems most unlikely. Where do you get the information for this?

Old saying, I just Googled it and take it back figures for UK are;

50 years, six months and two weeks old,

while women have to wait past retirement until they are 72 years, four months and three weeks old

[chrisinth]

@ pimping,

Actually some good comments have come out there from both Swiss1960 & KNJ, although not all I would agree with.

Running a bar or restaurant in Thailand. This is based on 13 years of the wife owning a bar/restaurant in LOS. Some pointers:

1/ Before you even begin, recognize who your primary customers are going to be, what their requirements are going to be and what sort of an establishment it will be, ie. Family, Girls, etc. If you go for the Girl option, who’s feet are you going to step on? If you decide to sell food is it going to be ‘A bar that sells food’ or ‘A restaurant that sells drink’? (Big decision right there!)

2/ Get it into your head that you will never own it and that it will be in a Thai’s name! Yes, I have heard there are ways around this; if that is the way you want to go, get proper legal advice first.

3/ Establish what your goal is! I was realistic, as the reason we opened ours was really to give me something to do, so our sights were set on as long as it ran in the black and paid the overheads, we were happy. Truthfully, I gave it a one year life when we first started, but was proven wrong!

4/ Get the legal aspects correct first time round. Licenses for local and foreign spirits, local and foreign cigarettes, business license, hygiene certificate (if running a kitchen) and a good book-keeping system for tax purposes (you will be tax free for the first year).

5/ Make sure you are up to the task, not everyone can do this that is for sure. If you are not naturally a ‘listener’ then forget it right now! Be prepared to work 18 hour days with little time off. Again, this is dependent on what sort of establishment you are looking at, how many staff you are going to employ, etc, etc.

Anyway, just a few of many points I would consider. BTW, I enjoyed every minute of it, but situations change and trying to make it work while doing a full time job as well burns you out......................

Edited September 17, 2012 by chrisinth

[elliss]

. if you have enough money , to have a quality life in thailand , then enjoy it.

if you have a thai buisness as a means of having money , to live in thailand , you have my sympathy.

what with the obstacles , hoops and hassle involved , IF you are fotunate enough too be successful,

you have the jealousy of some members of the farang community .

all is not what it appears to be in LOS.

Edited September 17, 2012 by elliss

[Mosha]

Make sure you aren't the bar's best customer.

[theslime]

How to make a small Fortune in LOS, start with a big one. Old as the hills.

[phuturatica]

From my experience... I have not heard that many success stories.

I certainly wouldn't do it and I don't think its worth the hassle.

[MrRealDeal]

If you are not a millionaire by 30 statistically you are never likely to be.

This seems most unlikely. Where do you get the information for this?

You are correct it's simply False , the fact is most millionares had middle class or slightly upper middle class jobs and saved and invested over time , not that they all struck it rich before 30.

[meatboy]

Make sure you aren't the bar's best customer.

that will be the gf.or the wf's family and her brother.

[Songhua]

My wife and I are currently running our fourth business (Thai restaurants) (in Australia, not Thailand). But prior to that we had a poolroom/drinkies establishment in Phuket in the early 90's. That went dismally due to lack of understanding and knowledge and we lost our shirts.

What we learned was that, if the business is doing badly, recognise it early and GET OUT. If it is doing well, stick with it. If it is doing very well, make your money on it then GET OUT or be darn sure you're going to make even more money.

Of our restaurants, we have grown three of them to be very successful and the other was a shocker.

It all comes down to demographics, location and know-how. Not one or the other .... all three.

Why do people keep buying bars in areas like BangLa (which, by the way, is now more of a sightseeing trip for gawking tourists than an entertainment area - I saw Korean tour groups taking photos of drunken Aussies last time I was there)? Can't really say ... we did the same thing.

When we come back to Thailand, I think we'll try aiming at the seventy million rather than the gawkers. Easier to sell ten of something at ten baht than trying to sell one at a hundred.

[HardenedSoul]

Don't listen to the naysayers. If you think it through and get advice from those who've succeeded, you should be spared the ignominy of having your clocked cleaned. Sure, a lot of people fail in the bar industry but if you were look more closely at many of those failures, you'd find some pretty glaring mistakes that can be swerved with the most rudimentary common sense.

[richardjm65]

We started off making good bread, pizzas and burgers at home, plus selling beer and soft drinks. We did it because we needed some sort of income before my pension kicked in. After a while, we moved the operation into a shophouse in our small town and did quite well, always aware of the fact that you don't buy anything that you don't actually need for the business.

All food was home made. Each menu item was freezable, so there was no waste. Chalkboards on the walls were our menu, so we could add more items or scrub items that were not that popular. Customers would come by for bread and find we could also supply cheese, butter, ham, bacon, mustard, and so on. We made large pork pies and sold them by the slice - made really good sandwiches using our own bread and the best possible fillings. Home made pate, soups, stews and sauces, we had 'em.

We were doing something that was not being done in our town, so we were not getting fingered by jealous competitors. We sold our beers, (draft and bottled), at a slightly higher price than the other outlets to discourage the price conscious, and that included the Thai kids - once again, we were not treading on anyone's toes. So it worked and was successful until that pension kicked in and we decided to call it a day.

Now, I had no work permit and I guess the police knew that. They were customers too but never tried to shake us down for bribes or discounts. I think it worked because we had a good location, and the right quality at the right price and we carefully avoided getting cross-threaded with other businesses. But most of all, it worked because my wife wanted it to work and she was prepared to put in the time and effort. That was important, because it seems that many Thai ladies lose that work ethic once they've married a foreigner - after that, many have no intention of ever working again.

Our biggest problem was getting staff, reliable or otherwise, so it really boiled down to just the two of us with occasional staff and at busy times, help from her friends. The ideas I had for opening up the other two floors and a roof garden remained ideas only - no way we could have coped with that work load.

I was so glad when we closed and at last had time to attend to our house and land. It worked for us, but I'd never do it again. Hardest for me was having to deal with those dickheads who sometimes happened by - but I did improve my anger management skills a bit. There's no way I would have tried a similar venture in Bangkok, Pattaya, CM or Phuket.

[BookMan]

My wife and I are currently running our fourth business (Thai restaurants) (in Australia, not Thailand). But prior to that we had a poolroom/drinkies establishment in Phuket in the early 90's. That went dismally due to lack of understanding and knowledge and we lost our shirts.

What we learned was that, if the business is doing badly, recognise it early and GET OUT. If it is doing well, stick with it. If it is doing very well, make your money on it then GET OUT or be darn sure you're going to make even more money.

Of our restaurants, we have grown three of them to be very successful and the other was a shocker.

It all comes down to demographics, location and know-how. Not one or the other .... all three.

Why do people keep buying bars in areas like BangLa (which, by the way, is now more of a sightseeing trip for gawking tourists than an entertainment area - I saw Korean tour groups taking photos of drunken Aussies last time I was there)? Can't really say ... we did the same thing.

When we come back to Thailand, I think we'll try aiming at the seventy million rather than the gawkers. Easier to sell ten of something at ten baht than trying to sell one at a hundred.

What makes a succesful Thai restaurant in Australia songhua?

I took my GF on a road trip from Sydney to Sunshine coast. Absolutely no problems finding Thai food. Every town seems to have one at least.

[jacktrip]

after talking with several reasonable people who have lived here longer then i, all with the same story, and hearing no long term success stories.

i concluded that running a business in thailand with minority ownership would never be an option for me. some lessons i dont need to learn first hand.

Edited September 17, 2012 by jacktrip