The Trap.......

[Semper]

I have never understood alcohol addiction.

Feel good for a few hours and then feel miserable for a lot longer afterwards.

Bad drug choice.

Correct, but the only one legal in Thailand.

[theblether]

Know what's more annoying than a drunk?

Folks that give their views on the evil of alcohol.

Frankly, I don't care if some slob wants to drink his life away. If the idiot isn't driving and not abusing his family, it's not my concern. I have better things to worry about than alkies.

That's a highly ignorant post GK.

I would reckon that most of the people here know someone who has had a battle with alcohol, people usually recognize that alcoholism is an illness and a seriously debilitating illness at that. You appear to be dismissive of people who are suffering from that illness?

Anyway, you are overlooking the point of the OP, the OP was inspired by a guy I met yesterday who found himself being sucked in to a lifestyle based upon alcohol. He could see it going one way so he flew back to the UK and started working again to give himself a purpose in life. Better that than slip into a life of entrapped torture.

I know people who are retiring to Thailand soon, the OP was a salutary warning. Nothing more, nothing less...........arrive with plans to fill your days in, or you'll take the risk of finding alcohol filling you in.

You'll never find me talking about the evils of drink..........I'm a drinking man.........however you will never find me being as disgustingly contemptuous of my fellow man as you are here. Shameful, just shameful.

[jocko]

Know what's more annoying than a drunk?

Folks that give their views on the evil of alcohol.

Frankly, I don't care if some slob wants to drink his life away. If the idiot isn't driving and not abusing his family, it's not my concern. I have better things to worry about than alkies.

That's a highly ignorant post GK.

I would reckon that most of the people here know someone who has had a battle with alcohol, people usually recognize that alcoholism is an illness and a seriously debilitating illness at that. You appear to be dismissive of people who are suffering from that illness?

Anyway, you are overlooking the point of the OP, the OP was inspired by a guy I met yesterday who found himself being sucked in to a lifestyle based upon alcohol. He could see it going one way so he flew back to the UK and started working again to give himself a purpose in life. Better that than slip into a life of entrapped torture.

I know people who are retiring to Thailand soon, the OP was a salutary warning. Nothing more, nothing less...........arrive with plans to fill your days in, or you'll take the risk of finding alcohol filling you in.

You'll never find me talking about the evils of drink..........I'm a drinking man.........however you will never find me being as disgustingly contemptuous of my fellow man as you are here. Shameful, just shameful.

Some people think they are perfect .

[aussiebebe]

The OP's warning is as much about retirement as drinking, surely. 43 is young to retire, but even those in their 60s should heed the OP's advice. No matter what age you retire you'll get trapped in something if you're not proactive; you must fill your life with purpose; there's got to be 'what next?' and it's got to be something more than teeing up the next ball. Nowadays many people take semi-retirement.

[astral]

Excessive alcohol use can also cause cancer.

[David48]

Sadly ... the issue the OP discusses is not solely confined to us men.

Seven years of my life ... five of which I thought I could cure her or that her friends could be role models or that she would grow out of it.

One of the nicest people you will ever meet ... sadly she is lost to me now.

[stoneyboy]

Do you think that nationality plays a big part in The Trap,because I do,many alcoholics that I have known happened to be Scotsmen,and they are guys that still work yet can not keep off the drink.

Plus pub culture in the UK is a way of life is it not.

I actually miss my old local.

Edited November 10, 2012 by stoneyboy

[Neeranam]

Lifes about choices.

Some people lose the power of choice. This is one definition of addiction. It is not a moral failing.

[yermanee]

The OP's warning is as much about retirement as drinking, surely. 43 is young to retire, but even those in their 60s should heed the OP's advice. No matter what age you retire you'll get trapped in something if you're not proactive; you must fill your life with purpose; there's got to be 'what next?' and it's got to be something more than teeing up the next ball. Nowadays many people take semi-retirement.

I don't think it's about retirement, at least not in the way you mean it. There are many professions that involve social contact with customers, subcontractors or just the choice of profession as barkeepers, waiters etc.

Then there's also the social pressure with your colleagues where you're not considered one of the boys if you don't drink.

All this is before retirement. Rare are the one's that become addicted to alcohol because they are retired and are bored.

Sure there are retirees that become alcoholics but in most cases the drinking started long before that.

At a certain time in my career I was borderline but was lucky enough to realize what was happening and was strong-minded enough to do something about it, and guess what, some of my that time friends resented me for that.

Now I occasionally drink a few beers or glasses of wine but always in moderation and never mix them up.

Just my 2 cents

Yermanee

[theblether]

Do you think that nationality plays a big part in The Trap,because I do,many alcoholics that I have known happened to be Scotsmen,and they are guys that still work yet can not keep of drink.

The Scots and Irish are known for a drinking culture, it was ( is ) normal for a hard days work to be followed by a hard session in the pub, wake up, and repeat. So fair comment.

@yermanee, there was a point in my life where I was borderline too, I was very lucky as a co-worker was an AA member and he pointed out a few things to me that stuck with me.

He made a prediction, the prediction came true, when it came true I knew I was in bother, and pulled back.

Thank God he was there for me.

I still take a drink when it suits me, but I've seen how easy it is to slip over, so it's always a consideration now.

Edited November 10, 2012 by theblether

[Neeranam]

Do you think that nationality plays a big part in The Trap,because I do,many alcoholics that I have known happened to be Scotsmen,and they are guys that still work yet can not keep of drink.

I think so. Us Scots are brought up on hot toddies. It's culturally ok to drink lots of whisky.

In oz its normal to drink lite beer. I can't imagine anyone from where I come from doing that.

Likewise in the US there is pish like Miller and Bud. Whereas we had Tennants Super and Special Brew .I was partial to their Thunderbird though and JD.

[geriatrickid]

The blether takes me to task. Oh my;

That's a highly ignorant post GK.

I would reckon that most of the people here know someone who has had a battle with alcohol, people usually recognize that alcoholism is an illness and a seriously debilitating illness at that. You appear to be dismissive of people who are suffering from that illness?

Dismissive? Why? Because I find lectures on the evils of demon rum to be annoying? I don't dispute the position on having hobbies etc. is good for some people.. However, this is a thread that is preaching to the converted. The people that need to see the message are not reading the thread. That's what people like you don't get. This is the wrong target audience. The advice should be given to the bar stool people. I find the moralizing of reformed drinkers to be tedious and annoying. Yes, I get it, alcohol can cause problems and you nearly fell into the abyss of drunken horrors. Good for you for having saved yourself.What do you want, a gold star affixed at the end of your post?

Yes, some alcoholics are mentally ill, but not all alcoholics are. Obese people like to say it is "glandular" and not their fault either. Yes, some alcoholics are predisposed to alcoholism, just as some people are predisposed to other forms of dependant behaviour. I am no more dismissive of someone with an addiction than I am of other manifestations of mental illness. However, I realized long ago that one cannot help an alcoholic that doesn't want help, and a great many of the people I see boozing it up on Bangla road in the morning are beyond help. They would have ended up perched on a bar stool with or without the intervention of Major Barbara from the Sally Ann.

you will never find me being as disgustingly contemptuous of my fellow man as you are here. Shameful, just shameful.

Contemptuous? Hardly. I don't need the lecture. And quite frankly, if it makes the alcholic foreigners that litter the bar district happy, good for them. It's not as if some of them have robust lives anyway. These people are not there because they didn't have hobbies. The issue is much more complex than that.

Edited November 10, 2012 by geriatrickid

[theblether]

The blether takes me to task. Oh my;

That's a highly ignorant post GK.

I would reckon that most of the people here know someone who has had a battle with alcohol, people usually recognize that alcoholism is an illness and a seriously debilitating illness at that. You appear to be dismissive of people who are suffering from that illness?

Dismissive? Why? Because I find lectures on the evils of demon rum to be annoying? I don't dispute the position on having hobbies etc. is good for some people.. However, this is a thread that is preaching to the converted. The people that need to see the message are not reading the thread. That's what people like you don't get. This is the wrong target audience. The advice should be given to the bar stool people. I find the moralizing of reformed drinkers to be tedious and annoying. Yes, I get it, alcohol can cause problems and you nearly fell into the abyss of drunken horrors. Good for you for having saved yourself.What do you want, a gold star affixed at the end of your post?

Yes, some alcoholics are mentally ill, but not all alcoholics are. Obese people like to say it is "glandular" and not their fault either. Yes, some alcoholics are predisposed to alcoholism, just as some people are predisposed to other forms of dependant behaviour. I am no more dismissive of someone with an addiction than I am of other manifestations of mental illness. However, I realized long ago that one cannot help an alcoholic that doesn't want help, and a great many of the people I see boozing it up on Bangla road in the morning are beyond help. They would have ended up perched on a bar stool with or without the intervention of Major Barbara from the Sally Ann.

you will never find me being as disgustingly contemptuous of my fellow man as you are here. Shameful, just shameful.

Contemptuous? Hardly. I don't need the lecture. And quite frankly, I don't care about the alcholic foreigners that litter the bar district. These people are not there because they didn't have hobbies. The issue is much more complex than that.

I would say you have just confirmed my original response to you.

You stand by your opinion, and I'll stand by mine, that will be fine eh?

[jocko]

Do you think that nationality plays a big part in The Trap,because I do,many alcoholics that I have known happened to be Scotsmen,and they are guys that still work yet can not keep off the drink.

Plus pub culture in the UK is a way of life is it not.

I actually miss my old local.

As a social pass time the pub is a great place to be it is a shame that unfortunately some people get addicted and can end up on the road to ruin and of course you can drink straight from the supermarket.

[CharlieH]

Lost a cousin to drink, never could and never will understand the fascination for excessive alchohol or alcohol abuse.

Personally I dont touch the stuff in any form. Last "drink" I had was around 1982 I think ,BUT I dont scorn those that do either, its a matter of personal choice and self control. If you enjoy a drink that's your choice, but as stated by many, its about moderation and self control, recognising you have a probem before it becomes one which isnt always easy.

[MacChine]

why do so many expats drink, and i dont just mean drink i mean to the level of mega abuse.

Perhaps it has to do the same reason they move to developing countries, tied into some sort of genetic deficiency ?

I notice the UK are more than likely to over drink, it seems to be ingrained into the culture. Perfectly reasonable, responsible and well off men driving home drunk just about every night.

Edited November 10, 2012 by MacChine

[phuturatica]

I did the opposite when I came to Thailand. These days I barely drink and go out. I'm turning into a boring old woman.

[mogandave]

The man takes a drink, the drink takes a drink takes a drink then the drink takes the man....

[chrisinth]

Do you think that nationality plays a big part in The Trap,because I do,many alcoholics that I have known happened to be Scotsmen,and they are guys that still work yet can not keep of drink.

The Scots and Irish are known for a drinking culture, it was ( is ) normal for a hard days work to be followed by a hard session in the pub, wake up, and repeat. So fair comment.

@yermanee, there was a point in my life where I was borderline too, I was very lucky as a co-worker was an AA member and he pointed out a few things to me that stuck with me.

He made a prediction, the prediction came true, when it came true I knew I was in bother, and pulled back.

Thank God he was there for me.

I still take a drink when it suits me, but I've seen how easy it is to slip over, so it's always a consideration now.

Good OP TB, and yet another good point in your response to yermanee in this post.

Whereas the individual should be aware of the Trap, the friends of the individual should also be aware of the signs of this happening. The person who ends up with the problem is usually the last to know, normally through self-denial and at that point it can be too late.

On the subject of alcoholism, I made a smart-ass post the other day with reference to drinking and alcoholism because I didn't fully read what the person I replied to had said. I have apologized for this, but think it may be worth reading. The link is:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/595648-rampant-violence-in-isaan/page__st__150#entry5819378

Basically what it says is that you don't have to be an alcoholic to have a drink problem

[tim armstrong]

I have never understood alcohol addiction.

Feel good for a few hours and then feel miserable for a lot longer afterwards.

Bad drug choice.

I work with alcohol addiction. No two people are the same. But for sure if you take away the things that give you a purpose, make you laugh, and the friends you are used to, and, put yourself in a country where you don't speak the language, there are not too many options for a social life other than gather at places where you may get some company. I would say loneliness is a big factor, especially for men. To quote a poet,'Many men lead lives of quiet desperation' sad but true.

[Rob8891]

Good OP TB, and yet another good point in your response to yermanee in this post.

Whereas the individual should be aware of the Trap, the friends of the individual should also be aware of the signs of this happening. The person who ends up with the problem is usually the last to know, normally through self-denial and at that point it can be too late.

On the subject of alcoholism, I made a smart-ass post the other day with reference to drinking and alcoholism because I didn't fully read what the person I replied to had said. I have apologized for this, but think it may be worth reading. The link is:

http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5819378

Basically what it says is that you don't have to be an alcoholic to have a drink problem

Another good post! IMO, your last line is the most important....and very true in my own experience. I didn't see myself as alcoholic, but I was putting away around 2 bottles of wine every night a few years ago (and the witch never even approached princess status). The working day was sustained with a LOT of strong black coffee.

Luckily, a totally unrelated hospital visit highlighted what the alcohol was doing to me and I had a strong wake-up call (for a while), but the call of the red was too strong. Almost four years ago, I left my ex, and suddenly the need desire to obliterate hours of my life disappeared. Be clear, I am not putting the blame on her...she had her own drink problem, bet wasn't lucky enough to wake up and see it....maybe she's still hitting the bottle, I do not know.

Now, I have a very wary view of alcohol. I hardly drink... just the odd dram now and again. On reflection, maybe I was / am alcoholic, because if I were to start back on the wine, I could imagine me taking more and more......so, for me, it is easier to stay off it, as I do not want to find out the answer to my own question.

Why the hell do I feel the compunction to bare all to you lot??

[mogandave]

I used to have a drinking problem but she left me.

If you are wondering if you are an alcoholic, you can quit wondering.

[Semper]

I did the opposite when I came to Thailand. These days I barely drink and go out. I'm turning into a boring old woman.

On the contrary. Nothing wrong with drinking at home.

[BookMan]

Sadly ... the issue the OP discusses is not solely confined to us men.

Seven years of my life ... five of which I thought I could cure her or that her friends could be role models or that she would grow out of it.

One of the nicest people you will ever meet ... sadly she is lost to me now.

I have been in a relationship with a drinker myself and I would never be in one with a drinker again.

The element of alcohol can change the personality of a person while they are drinking and of course this changes the dynamics and strength of a relationship.

I find problem drinkers to be ultimately selfish: the alcohol always comes first.

IMO, the change to behaviour, to not drinking, has to come from the drinker themselves.

[transam]

I did the opposite when I came to Thailand. These days I barely drink and go out. I'm turning into a boring old woman.

Noooooooo, someone here who thinks about your red hair. ....................

[theblether]

Good OP TB, and yet another good point in your response to yermanee in this post.

Whereas the individual should be aware of the Trap, the friends of the individual should also be aware of the signs of this happening. The person who ends up with the problem is usually the last to know, normally through self-denial and at that point it can be too late.

On the subject of alcoholism, I made a smart-ass post the other day with reference to drinking and alcoholism because I didn't fully read what the person I replied to had said. I have apologized for this, but think it may be worth reading. The link is:

http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5819378

Basically what it says is that you don't have to be an alcoholic to have a drink problem

Another good post! IMO, your last line is the most important....and very true in my own experience. I didn't see myself as alcoholic, but I was putting away around 2 bottles of wine every night a few years ago (and the witch never even approached princess status). The working day was sustained with a LOT of strong black coffee.

Luckily, a totally unrelated hospital visit highlighted what the alcohol was doing to me and I had a strong wake-up call (for a while), but the call of the red was too strong. Almost four years ago, I left my ex, and suddenly the need desire to obliterate hours of my life disappeared. Be clear, I am not putting the blame on her...she had her own drink problem, bet wasn't lucky enough to wake up and see it....maybe she's still hitting the bottle, I do not know.

Now, I have a very wary view of alcohol. I hardly drink... just the odd dram now and again. On reflection, maybe I was / am alcoholic, because if I were to start back on the wine, I could imagine me taking more and more......so, for me, it is easier to stay off it, as I do not want to find out the answer to my own question.

Why the hell do I feel the compunction to bare all to you lot??

@Chrisinth......... Very interesting post Chris, and the link was compelling too

@Rob8891......also very interesting, it seems a good few us were on the edge at one point

Edited November 10, 2012 by theblether

[Semper]

The element of alcohol can change the personality of a person while they are drinking

Yes, that's the whole point of drinking / taking other drugs, to alter your mind.

[mogandave]

Sadly ... the issue the OP discusses is not solely confined to us men.

Seven years of my life ... five of which I thought I could cure her or that her friends could be role models or that she would grow out of it.

One of the nicest people you will ever meet ... sadly she is lost to me now.

I have been in a relationship with a drinker myself and I would never be in one with a drinker again.

The element of alcohol can change the personality of a person while they are drinking and of course this changes the dynamics and strength of a relationship.

I find problem drinkers to be ultimately selfish: the alcohol always comes first.

IMO, the change to behaviour, to not drinking, has to come from the drinker themselves.

IMO, unfortunately, alcohol does not change the personality, but amplifies it. Painful as it is, what they say when they're drunk is the truth.

[phuturatica]

I did the opposite when I came to Thailand. These days I barely drink and go out. I'm turning into a boring old woman.

Noooooooo, someone here who thinks about your red hair. ....................

What about my red hair?! *is confused*

[StreetCowboy]

A number of posts have been removed. Do not bait other posters and leave moderation to the mods. Thank you.

This forum really is hard core AA, isn't it? Abstinence is not the only option...

Some people can control their drinking.

SC