Blocking Of Krabi Video Considered

[Amras]

But it doens't matter if we find it hard to believe, he may very well be guilty. But If we hold to our western ideals, he should still be treated as innocent until proven guilty. OR is it a case of we only apply our 'better western society and laws' where it serves our purpose. Can't pick and choose what we want. Go with a democratic process and believe in it, or do it the Thai way* (for some) and enact vengeance. It's one or the other.

It's the mindset of a select group of people, those in power, who we all know do what servers their own interests. It does not necessarily represent the other 80-90% of the general population, who are probably feed up with it as well, but have no idea how to combat it or illicit change.

It is also one politician who made these statements not the whole of Thailand. And as I said, he is an absolute horrible individual.

They want to block it not because of the damage to the tourists, but because they know Thai's are sick of it as well. They can't control tourists, but they can control what is seen by the general Thai public. This happens in the west, but it's much more difficult to see. Everything is just so blatantly obvious here.

I dont understand, what you are saying with the last paragraph....

It's complicated and would take too long to explain. Just surmise to say that the governments of every nation want to prevent uprising of their citizens against those in power in every case. This is much more important than losing a few tourists. Thai's already know about this, but if it's too long or to prominently public it affects opinions of the public on the current government (at which they can retaliate against). Hence why covering it up, its self serving interest for those in power now.

Either that (which happens everywhere) or they really are that hmmm "stupid" to think it would stop people outside seeing it and I'm giving the government too much credit on how cunning they are.

[longtom]

And not one word from Mr 'I will eradicate all crimes against tourists in 3 months' Chalerm.

[Buchholz]

But are the foreign press running with this story? The Australian ones haven't mentioned it yet......to my knowledge. It's the sort of story that you'd reckon would be good for ratings.

U.K.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223931/Recovering-hospital-Briton-Jack-Cole-stabbed-trying-save-girlfriend-April-Clifton-sex-attack-Thailand.html

South Africa

http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/2012/11/09/evil-man-from-krabi-youtube-video-slashes-business-at-thai-resort

It's also on 100's of different news and travel blogs, major travel forums like Lonely Planet, both English-language news sources in Thailand, and a dozen Thai-language news sources in Thailand.

It's getting around.

Google lists 24,000 hits for Evil Man From Krabi search:

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=Evil+man+from+Krabi+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=Evil+man+from+Krabi&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsu&ei=dzGeUKr9LNHJrAf9i4HoBw&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=60724a68baa7b8ec&bpcl=38093640&biw=1366&bih=585

[Bung]

I guess it was the simple solution. The suspect posts bail, he runs off up country probably into a remote wat to get away from it and the authorities share the now defaulted bail money. Sorted.

I suspect this is why in most cases like this bail is granted.

[nontabury]

MANCUB: Whilst I appreciate that you claim to be playing Devil's advocate to offset the bias shown by the majority of posters , you should also understand that such bias often stems from personal experience with said Authorities ! It is not Thai -bashing for the sake of it ...

If you peruse the Krabi forum ,you will find 3 recent current threads relating to this similar theme .

On a lighter note...."Back Home " for you sounds like one hellish place !

//////////::::::///////////

As a tourist/resident of Ao-Nang for 25yrs I would agree with most of what you write.

The Thai is accused of rape and allowed bail,this is usual in most places around the world,remember the case of the Australian girl in Phuket who falsely accused a Thai of raping here.I myself was in Krabi court earlier this year and witnessed a Thai man who was charged with raping a Thai girl,being granted bail.As for the supposedly confession to the Thai police in Krabi, don't put to much weight on that.What is very interesting is the report from the rescue service and from the doctor who examined the girl,these reports lead me to believe the Thai is guilty as charged,but I don't know for sure,this is up to the court to decide.

As for the actions of the Krabi police,can I say for once they seem to have done a good job,my worry is what may happen in Krabi court.

1/ He is found correctly innocent.

2/ He is found innocent,maybe because of the known corruption in Krabi court.

3/ He is found guilty,sentenced and serves his time.

4/ He is found guilty,appeals and is granted further bail,the appeal then stretches on for a few years,and then when the case fades from the media/public memory, he wins and is quietly released.

Take your pick.

Regarding the Thai official who said/insinuated that the Dutch girl was at fault because she agreed to sharing a meal and drinks with the Thai,maybe he has a young daughter, perhaps he could invite the Dutch father to take his daughter out for a meal and drink,and if the same thing happened,I wonder what his response would be.

Edited November 10, 2012 by nontabury

[JetsetBkk]

I suggest that everyone watching this subject some 356 people now, post the video to their facebook site.

I don't have a Facebook page, but I have music videos on Youtube - one that is fairly popular with over 3 million views. I've added a link to the Krabi video to my video and to others that are less popular.

[animatic]

A ridiculous thing to try and block it because it will NOT BE BLOCKED where the tourists are.

And as noted above this will make it more viral.

The best thing Thai authorities can do is haul this scumbag in and try him forthwith.

And crack down on rapists 100% of the time and advertise this sea change in legal attitude.

Otherwise the truth will get out...

Just like the FUSTAL refusal by FIFA the world does NOT work like Thailand,

you can't block it or buy it off to silence, get used to it and work to improve

your functioning not simply your false image to the world.

Edited November 10, 2012 by animatic

[Gang Warily]

Again I ask, as it seems people NEGLECT THIS SINGLE FACT.

WHERE does it say he has been found not guilty or acquitted of any charges against him? I have not seen, or read that anywhere.

As someone above me posted...the initial injuries were claimed as a motorbike accident...why wouldn't she have claimed someone just assaulted her.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. But none of us know the full story, only the small fragments in the media reports.

Or is everyone just outraged that a foreigner was attacked and that's it, no trial, no court, guilty.

According to the initial report, he did not plead guilty, rather he stated it was consensual and not rape.

See how facts get twisted.....................................

How about let the system do what it's supposed to do.......which seems like it was being done anyway.

The whole minister and tourism blocking thing, is a separate issue.

No we don't know all the facts do we? But I don't know of many people who would admit to a rape if they didn't do it and the perpetrator is said to admitted his rape, giving his excuses and then later changed his mind and said it was consentual. The mindset in this place is exposed wonderfully by the spokeman saying it can't be considered rape because she had dinner with the guy. It is beyond pathetic it is sickening.

The fact that people can defend what has been said is equally sickening. Yes everyone should be innocent until proven guilty (doesn't seem to be that way in dafamation cases for some reason maybe because it suits the ruling elite that way and makes it a more effective weapon for them but I move off point). If someone admits guilt then the balance turns against him. Yes there are cases where confessions are coerced but admission and later retracting everything as the scent you might get off because a foreigner is involved happens too many times here for that argument to hold much weight either - and why coerce a person to admit rape and hurt your country. I dont believe coercions are that widespread! And besides Thais are just not like that and hurting their country is the last thing they want to do because of the loss of face to themselves that would occur socially in the process. The only time that is acceptable is in the case where you stand to gain mightily financially - then you can commit treason by stealing money from the nations coffers through corruption and not lose a wink of sleep at the thought that you might be hurting the precious country. Give me a break Thais are all about loss of face; and their selfishness is astounding.

Time for so many changes here. The justice system needs to be rid of corruption and speeded up - a lot! Too much adjourn this adjourn that for the slightest reason. In cases involving foreigners there needs to be a special procedure because the victim cannot be expected to return to Thailand for every hearing at shoulder the travel costs involved in that. It is not acceptable to just let everyone off just because the person is not here anymore because anarchy will eventually result where people can assault and injure or murder tourists and just get away with it because the victim is either dead or cannot afford 20 return flights to Thailand while the courts pick their noses.

I don't have all the answers but there has to be a better way and the increasing criminality in this wonderful country has to be arrested before it gets out of control - it very nearly is in Phuket already - seems it's spreading.

No we don't know all the facts. I still haven't seen the original source that says he admitted to the rape. Could you provide it? (I honestly want to see it, not being an arse). The spokesman is a douche bag, in any nationality or country (remember there are people in the west that think exactly the same as him as well, ie provocative dressing invites rape etc). These people are everywhere, it's not a Thai thing.

You also seems to forget one major issue...regardless of our ideals, or whether or not we think Thailand needs to improve, in what ever regard........this is not OUR country.

If the Thai's want to accept this as the universal being for growing up in Thailand (corrupt police (not all), corruption in the government, an average court and judicial system), that is honestly their prerogative. Because the truth is, most of us are not citizens so don't inherit the rights that come along with citizenship, no matter how backwards we believe many things are in Thailand.

Can you imagine say the Chinese moving to Australia or the US and saying, wow you guys have to much freedom of expression, that needs to be changed now! Regardless of who we think is right or wrong it is up to the people of that nation to effect change. Not the visitors to it. After all, we have a choice to come here and accept all risks associated with it. Want to be 'safe', stay home where you know your rights. (I'm being the devils advocate here, as people seem to be emotionally charged to think only one sided).

There are many cases of implied guilt, confessions or coercion's, likely here and definitely back home in the west. It happens for many reasons. Not saying this is the case here, but it does happen.

I don't believe any country has an express judicial proceedings for crimes against visitors or tourists. I haven't seen it as most people can be on trial with the witness in absentia, if circumstances are required. Don't forget it is a criminal act, not civil. So they are prosecuted with the prosecution being the state (not the victim).

Not that it justifies it, but this also happens around the world, not just in Thailand, like so many posters here give the impression. It is not an idealistic west, vs the barbaric Thailand. There were 85,000 recorded cases on rape in 2010 in the US, at 29 per 100,000 people (Thailand had 4500 with a ratio of 7 per 100,000), according to the UN. Obviously these stats are hard to relate to actual figures, but it gives an indication that as a westerner you are 4 times more likely to be rapped in the US than in Thailand (most non reported rapes in Thailand would be low income, regional areas and against Thai's etc etc).

My point is, too many people jump on the Thailand is evil bandwagon and any chance they can get, yet forget all this stuff happens back home, but goes un-reported in the media, or gets very little coverage. Or we selectively forget that this stuff also happens back home, because many come here with a superiority complex about how they can fix Thailand and how much better there 'enlightened' way of thinking is.

Everything is Thailand is just so transparent, to see the stuff that goes on in the west, you need to dig below the surface. Most people don't so think it's all peachy. That just isn't the case.

Amras there seem to be a few basic things you do not understand, but first the fact that the guy handed himself in and confessed was information given to the father I understand through the Netherlands Embassy or Andrew Drummond and came from police in Krabi who then were confident of a successful prosecution..

1. Comparing rape statistics between Thailand and the US is absurd. Very few people report rape to police in Thailand and go thru the courts. Its a matter settled locally.

2. Its not a matter of Thais accepting their lot. They have to. They have no choice the way the system works - unless they are influencial.

3. Very little here is transparent except some ministerial statements.

4. Thailand has the ability to 'express' court proceedings and did so in the case of the rape and murder of Katherine Horton on Koh Samui.

5. The Thai government has been promising for years to speed up its court system so justice delayed is not justice denied. It has failed to do so. At the moment if you are charged with a crime and go to trial - that trial could last several years if you plead not guilty - the record is I believe 22 years in a trial during which several lawyers, witnesses and defendants died before its conclusion.

The info about the tour guide confessing comes from the andrew drummond site. In the light of the tour guide pleading not guilty that confession may now be irrelevant and confessions made in police stations should be treated with caution. The latest story is now updated with the following.

UPDATE: The young woman's father said from Amsterdam tonight that in the light of a 'hallucinatory' statement made at Ministry level in Thailand he was now seeking advice from his own government which has been monitoring the case. He had been invited to take part in a major programme in Holland early next week and was now considering it. While his own government had not taken action, he said, he had been informed that the Swedish government was issuing a travel warning in relation to Krabi.

And finally Nisa is correct on one point. The father has not complained about police. He has complained about the justice system. And his daughter has already given evidence in court, as did Carly Reisig about the murder of Leo Del Pinto in Pai, Mae Hong Son Province.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Gang Warily

[ttelise]

It's easy to get all upset by a comment like "this case cannot be considered rape", and assume that it's because Thai's don't believe in rape.. etc etc.

Well, lets look at it for a western perspective. A few years ago, if this sort of thing happened in the west it WOULD NOT be called rape, ii would be labeled "DATE RAPE"... sounds the same, but adding the word DATE in front of the word RAPE changes the meaning quite substantially, not only in name but in many cases in the form of punishment IF a perpetrator was found guilty.

I AM NOT SAYING that she was not raped, and I'm certainly NOT suggesting for one moment that the crime was any less heinous just because she had dinner with him and possible went back to his place, or invited him to hers..

What I AM SAYING is that when you translate a word into Thai you have to accept that meanings can differ, in the same way that meanings differed in the west 30 years ago to some extent. If you accept that in the west (in some countries) we have a DIFFERENT exp<b></b>ression that we call "Date Rape", then it's understandable that when you translate just the word RAPE that a Thai can say "this case cannot be considered rape". Defense lawyers in the west SAY THE SAME THING under circumstances where both parties had been drinking and they go into a bedroom environment of their own free will. I AM NOT SAYING that what happened is not rape, I just don't know what happened, and neither does anyone except the man and woman in the room at the time.

Also, for the record. The suggestion that bail was inappropriate is a difficult call. Bail is often given in the west to people accused of similar offences under similar circumstances.. remember he's a suspect and an alleged rapist that has not been given the opportunity yet to defend himself in a court of law. He may be an evil man, I just don't know and neither I suggest do you.

Useless drivel from village idiot. I AM NOT SAYING YOUR A VILLAGE IDIOT. I am just saying I'm not saying.

[Crushdepth]

They want to block the video *in* Thailand? Yeah that will stop foreign tourists seeing it.

Stupid bastard.

[Gang Warily]

It's easy to get all upset by a comment like "this case cannot be considered rape", and assume that it's because Thai's don't believe in rape.. etc etc.

Well, lets look at it for a western perspective. A few years ago, if this sort of thing happened in the west it WOULD NOT be called rape, ii would be labeled "DATE RAPE"... sounds the same, but adding the word DATE in front of the word RAPE changes the meaning quite substantially, not only in name but in many cases in the form of punishment IF a perpetrator was found guilty.

I AM NOT SAYING that she was not raped, and I'm certainly NOT suggesting for one moment that the crime was any less heinous just because she had dinner with him and possible went back to his place, or invited him to hers..

What I AM SAYING is that when you translate a word into Thai you have to accept that meanings can differ, in the same way that meanings differed in the west 30 years ago to some extent. If you accept that in the west (in some countries) we have a DIFFERENT expression that we call "Date Rape", then it's understandable that when you translate just the word RAPE that a Thai can say "this case cannot be considered rape". Defense lawyers in the west SAY THE SAME THING under circumstances where both parties had been drinking and they go into a bedroom environment of their own free will. I AM NOT SAYING that what happened is not rape, I just don't know what happened, and neither does anyone except the man and woman in the room at the time.

Also, for the record. The suggestion that bail was inappropriate is a difficult call. Bail is often given in the west to people accused of similar offences under similar circumstances.. remember he's a suspect and an alleged rapist that has not been given the opportunity yet to defend himself in a court of law. He may be an evil man, I just don't know and neither I suggest do you.

Useless drivel from village idiot. I AM NOT SAYING YOUR A VILLAGE IDIOT. I am just saying I'm not saying.

I agree. This guy is totally off the wall. Where does the date come into it? Where does the bedroom come into it. The woman accepted a lift from a friendly Thai back to her accommodation. She never got there. She demanded to get off the bike when she realised he was going in the wrong direction. he beat her and dragged her off the road side. Some date. Some bedroom.

Finally its a Minister of Tourism speaking. The Ministry has deep problems if he cannot understand English - the major language of tourism,

[bunuel]

Again I ask, as it seems people NEGLECT THIS SINGLE FACT.

WHERE does it say he has been found not guilty or acquitted of any charges against him? I have not seen, or read that anywhere.

As someone above me posted...the initial injuries were claimed as a motorbike accident...why wouldn't she have claimed someone just assaulted her.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. But none of us know the full story, only the small fragments in the media reports.

Or is everyone just outraged that a foreigner was attacked and that's it, no trial, no court, guilty.

According to the initial report, he did not plead guilty, rather he stated it was consensual and not rape.

See how facts get twisted.....................................

How about let the system do what it's supposed to do.......which seems like it was being done anyway.

The whole minister and tourism blocking thing, is a separate issue.

No we don't know all the facts do we? But I don't know of many people who would admit to a rape if they didn't do it and the perpetrator is said to admitted his rape, giving his excuses and then later changed his mind and said it was consentual. The mindset in this place is exposed wonderfully by the spokeman saying it can't be considered rape because she had dinner with the guy. It is beyond pathetic it is sickening.

The fact that people can defend what has been said is equally sickening. Yes everyone should be innocent until proven guilty (doesn't seem to be that way in dafamation cases for some reason maybe because it suits the ruling elite that way and makes it a more effective weapon for them but I move off point). If someone admits guilt then the balance turns against him. Yes there are cases where confessions are coerced but admission and later retracting everything as the scent you might get off because a foreigner is involved happens too many times here for that argument to hold much weight either - and why coerce a person to admit rape and hurt your country. I dont believe coercions are that widespread! And besides Thais are just not like that and hurting their country is the last thing they want to do because of the loss of face to themselves that would occur socially in the process. The only time that is acceptable is in the case where you stand to gain mightily financially - then you can commit treason by stealing money from the nations coffers through corruption and not lose a wink of sleep at the thought that you might be hurting the precious country. Give me a break Thais are all about loss of face; and their selfishness is astounding.

Time for so many changes here. The justice system needs to be rid of corruption and speeded up - a lot! Too much adjourn this adjourn that for the slightest reason. In cases involving foreigners there needs to be a special procedure because the victim cannot be expected to return to Thailand for every hearing at shoulder the travel costs involved in that. It is not acceptable to just let everyone off just because the person is not here anymore because anarchy will eventually result where people can assault and injure or murder tourists and just get away with it because the victim is either dead or cannot afford 20 return flights to Thailand while the courts pick their noses.

I don't have all the answers but there has to be a better way and the increasing criminality in this wonderful country has to be arrested before it gets out of control - it very nearly is in Phuket already - seems it's spreading.

No we don't know all the facts. I still haven't seen the original source that says he admitted to the rape. Could you provide it? (I honestly want to see it, not being an arse). The spokesman is a douche bag, in any nationality or country (remember there are people in the west that think exactly the same as him as well, ie provocative dressing invites rape etc). These people are everywhere, it's not a Thai thing.

You also seems to forget one major issue...regardless of our ideals, or whether or not we think Thailand needs to improve, in what ever regard........this is not OUR country.

If the Thai's want to accept this as the universal being for growing up in Thailand (corrupt police (not all), corruption in the government, an average court and judicial system), that is honestly their prerogative. Because the truth is, most of us are not citizens so don't inherit the rights that come along with citizenship, no matter how backwards we believe many things are in Thailand.

Can you imagine say the Chinese moving to Australia or the US and saying, wow you guys have to much freedom of expression, that needs to be changed now! Regardless of who we think is right or wrong it is up to the people of that nation to effect change. Not the visitors to it. After all, we have a choice to come here and accept all risks associated with it. Want to be 'safe', stay home where you know your rights. (I'm being the devils advocate here, as people seem to be emotionally charged to think only one sided).

There are many cases of implied guilt, confessions or coercion's, likely here and definitely back home in the west. It happens for many reasons. Not saying this is the case here, but it does happen.

I don't believe any country has an express judicial proceedings for crimes against visitors or tourists. I haven't seen it as most people can be on trial with the witness in absentia, if circumstances are required. Don't forget it is a criminal act, not civil. So they are prosecuted with the prosecution being the state (not the victim).

Not that it justifies it, but this also happens around the world, not just in Thailand, like so many posters here give the impression. It is not an idealistic west, vs the barbaric Thailand. There were 85,000 recorded cases on rape in 2010 in the US, at 29 per 100,000 people (Thailand had 4500 with a ratio of 7 per 100,000), according to the UN. Obviously these stats are hard to relate to actual figures, but it gives an indication that as a westerner you are 4 times more likely to be rapped in the US than in Thailand (most non reported rapes in Thailand would be low income, regional areas and against Thai's etc etc).

My point is, too many people jump on the Thailand is evil bandwagon and any chance they can get, yet forget all this stuff happens back home, but goes un-reported in the media, or gets very little coverage. Or we selectively forget that this stuff also happens back home, because many come here with a superiority complex about how they can fix Thailand and how much better there 'enlightened' way of thinking is.

Everything is Thailand is just so transparent, to see the stuff that goes on in the west, you need to dig below the surface. Most people don't so think it's all peachy. That just isn't the case.

Amras there seem to be a few basic things you do not understand, but first the fact that the guy handed himself in and confessed was information given to the father I understand through the Netherlands Embassy or Andrew Drummond and came from police in Krabi who then were confident of a successful prosecution..

1. Comparing rape statistics between Thailand and the US is absurd. Very few people report rape to police in Thailand and go thru the courts. Its a matter settled locally.

2. Its not a matter of Thais accepting their lot. They have to. They have no choice the way the system works - unless they are influencial.

3. Very little here is transparent except some ministerial statements.

4. Thailand has the ability to 'express' court proceedings and did so in the case of the rape and murder of Katherine Horton on Koh Samui.

5. The Thai government has been promising for years to speed up its court system so justice delayed is not justice denied. It has failed to do so. At the moment if you are charged with a crime and go to trial - that trial could last several years if you plead not guilty - the record is I believe 22 years in a trial during which several lawyers, witnesses and defendants died before its conclusion.

The info about the tour guide confessing comes from the andrew drummond site. In the light of the tour guide pleading not guilty that confession may now be irrelevant and confessions made in police stations should be treated with caution. The latest story is now updated with the following.

UPDATE: The young woman's father said from Amsterdam tonight that in the light of a 'hallucinatory' statement made at Ministry level in Thailand he was now seeking advice from his own government which has been monitoring the case. He had been invited to take part in a major programme in Holland early next week and was now considering it. While his own government had not taken action, he said, he had been informed that the Swedish government was issuing a travel warning in relation to Krabi.

And finally Nisa is correct on one point. The father has not complained about police. He has complained about the justice system. And his daughter has already given evidence in court, as did Carly Reisig about the murder of Leo Del Pinto in Pai, Mae Hong Son Province.

Yep! Knowing the Northern Europeans, this was more or less how I expected them to react to the Tourism Minister's statement. Northern Europeans often go to places like Krabi and Phuket en famille, and they take the safety of their children seriously. Expect further repercussions as this story snowballs and builds up momentum. The UN Undersecretary General to combat Sexual Violence, Margot Wallstrom, is from Sweden, and if she gets wind of this, things could get really interesting for the Tourism Minister.

[Buchholz]

They want to block the video *in* Thailand? Yeah that will stop foreign tourists seeing it.

Stupid bastard.

[waza]

MANCUB: Whilst I appreciate that you claim to be playing Devil's advocate to offset the bias shown by the majority of posters , you should also understand that such bias often stems from personal experience with said Authorities ! It is not Thai -bashing for the sake of it ...

If you peruse the Krabi forum ,you will find 3 recent current threads relating to this similar theme .

On a lighter note...."Back Home " for you sounds like one hellish place !

//////////::::::///////////

As a tourist/resident of Ao-Nang for 25yrs I would agree with most of what you write.

The Thai is accused of rape and allowed bail,this is usual in most places around the world,remember the case of the Australian girl in Phuket who falsely accused a Thai of raping here.I myself was in Krabi court earlier this year and witnessed a Thai man who was charged with raping a Thai girl,being granted bail.As for the supposedly confession to the Thai police in Krabi, don't put to much weight on that.What is very interesting is the report from the rescue service and from the doctor who examined the girl,these reports lead me to believe the Thai is guilty as charged,but I don't know for sure,this is up to the court to decide.

As for the actions of the Krabi police,can I say for once they seem to have done a good job,my worry is what may happen in Krabi court.

1/ He is found correctly innocent.

2/ He is found innocent,maybe because of the known corruption in Krabi court.

3/ He is found guilty,sentenced and serves his time.

4/ He is found guilty,appeals and is granted further bail,the appeal then stretches on for a few years,and then when the case fades from the media/public memory, he wins and is quietly released.

Take your pick.

Regarding the Thai official who said/insinuated that the Dutch girl was at fault because she agreed to sharing a meal and drinks with the Thai,maybe he has a young daughter, perhaps he could invite the Dutch father to take his daughter out for a meal and drink,and if the same thing happened,I wonder what his response would be.

Dont forget it took a month for this rapist to be found after he was identified and his sister tried to buy the victim off. Doesnt sound like the actions of an inocent man.

[MacWalen]

Seems that tourist safety record is going down the toilet! Stabbings, theft, chatting, rape, seems tourism is doing too well and authorities are taking tourists for granted. I am not happy to hear over and over again about crime committed against those who help the country to prosper. I don't know all the facts but girls are not accusing of rape just like that. Something happened for sure.

[robblok]

Its now on one of the big dutch forums like Thaivisa its not a hot topic yet but there is a link going to this forum now. I really hope it catches on. The stupid Dutch government would not apply any pressure.

[Thai at Heart]

She was obviously very naive. It isn't her fault that no one warned her about possible problems in Thailand. Very sad.

Try the guy forthwith, issue a public statement about how the police will continue to work their socks off to protect tourists.

it is very sad, but what the hell was she thinking? She was patently very naive about how men can be, particularly in Thailand. My missus has and never will take a taxi late at night on her own anywhere in Thailand.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[robblok]

She was obviously very naive. It isn't her fault that no one warned her about possible problems in Thailand. Very sad.

Try the guy forthwith, issue a public statement about how the police will continue to work their socks off to protect tourists.

it is very sad, but what the hell was she thinking? She was patently very naive about how men can be, particularly in Thailand. My missus has and never will take a taxi late at night on her own anywhere in Thailand.

Your Mrs is Thai, she knows the country.. tourists are living the dream and believing its safe here because this is how it is projected.

[DocN]

She was obviously very naive.

Try the guy forthwith, issue a public statement about how the police will continue to work their socks off to protect tourists.

it is very sad, but what the hell was she thinking? She was patently very naive about how men can be, particularly in Thailand. My missus has and never will take a taxi late at night on her own anywhere in Thailand.

You are so wise!

And not at all self- righteous!

Stupid woman...bringing it totally on herself, not knowing that in Thailand "No" means "Yes"!

...and they even had dinner before!

[mancub]

MANCUB: Whilst I appreciate that you claim to be playing Devil's advocate to offset the bias shown by the majority of posters , you should also understand that such bias often stems from personal experience with said Authorities ! It is not Thai -bashing for the sake of it ...

If you peruse the Krabi forum ,you will find 3 recent current threads relating to this similar theme .

On a lighter note...."Back Home " for you sounds like one hellish place !

//////////::::::///////////

As a tourist/resident of Ao-Nang for 25yrs I would agree with most of what you write.

The Thai is accused of rape and allowed bail,this is usual in most places around the world,remember the case of the Australian girl in Phuket who falsely accused a Thai of raping here.I myself was in Krabi court earlier this year and witnessed a Thai man who was charged with raping a Thai girl,being granted bail.As for the supposedly confession to the Thai police in Krabi, don't put to much weight on that.What is very interesting is the report from the rescue service and from the doctor who examined the girl,these reports lead me to believe the Thai is guilty as charged,but I don't know for sure,this is up to the court to decide.

As for the actions of the Krabi police,can I say for once they seem to have done a good job,my worry is what may happen in Krabi court.

1/ He is found correctly innocent.

2/ He is found innocent,maybe because of the known corruption in Krabi court.

3/ He is found guilty,sentenced and serves his time.

4/ He is found guilty,appeals and is granted further bail,the appeal then stretches on for a few years,and then when the case fades from the media/public memory, he wins and is quietly released.

Take your pick.

Regarding the Thai official who said/insinuated that the Dutch girl was at fault because she agreed to sharing a meal and drinks with the Thai,maybe he has a young daughter, perhaps he could invite the Dutch father to take his daughter out for a meal and drink,and if the same thing happened,I wonder what his response would be.

Dont forget it took a month for this rapist to be found after he was identified and his sister tried to buy the victim off. Doesnt sound like the actions of an inocent man.

Very valid points ...and indeed easily forgotten given the way the Authorities like to prolong proceedings and issue ever changing ,often conflicting ,sometimes baffling statements which only seem to cloud the issue. Similarities to the tragic story of the Canadian sisters on Phi Phi .

Also prompted me to look up the original report -Krabi forum 24 Sep -Krabi Tour Guide Denies Charges Of Sexually Assaulting A Dutch Tourist ,

which states that the events took place in July ...so nearly 4 months on already !!!

[Arkady]

A ridiculous thing to try and block it because it will NOT BE BLOCKED where the tourists are.

And as noted above this will make it more viral.

The best thing Thai authorities can do is haul this scumbag in and try him forthwith.

And crack down on rapists 100% of the time and advertise this sea change in legal attitude.

Otherwise the truth will get out...

Just like the FUSTAL refusal by FIFA the world does NOT work like Thailand,

you can't block it or buy it off to silence, get used to it and work to improve

your functioning not simply your false image to the world.

They don't want Thais to see it because they know there is a growing number who are fed up with the ever worsening corruption in the Thai justice system. Social media is making it harder for the minority of corrupt politicians and government officials to continue to repress the majority of ordinary decent people.

[Thai at Heart]

She was obviously very naive.

Try the guy forthwith, issue a public statement about how the police will continue to work their socks off to protect tourists.

it is very sad, but what the hell was she thinking? She was patently very naive about how men can be, particularly in Thailand. My missus has and never will take a taxi late at night on her own anywhere in Thailand.

You are so wise!

And not at all self- righteous!

Stupid woman...bringing it totally on herself, not knowing that in Thailand "No" means "Yes"!

...and they even had dinner before!

No, not at all. She was completely unaware of how dangerous Thailand actually is.

If people actually knew, as the media is starting to publicise, a lot of people might reconsider their travel plans. Just look at the stories over the last year.

Thailand is not as safe as it is publicized, particularly for single women. If embassies start putting out warnings for women traveling alone, i applaud it.

Being naive is what it is, and it definitely isn't her fault, that she didn't know because as a tourist you don't know until someone tells you. This isn't the sweet tourist idyll you see in the tourist mags.

Anyone can get into very serious problems here very quickly until they learn that that is the case. being unaware doesn't make it your fault, it makes you naive.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[stockholm1995]

If you want to fight for justice, share this video on your Facebook and ask all your Facebook friends to share it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GRErWjo809g

[annabel]

But are the foreign press running with this story? The Australian ones haven't mentioned it yet......to my knowledge. It's the sort of story that you'd reckon would be good for ratings.

U.K.

http://www.dailymail...k-Thailand.html

South Africa

http://www.timeslive...-at-thai-resort

It's also on 100's of different news and travel blogs, major travel forums like Lonely Planet, both English-language news sources in Thailand, and a dozen Thai-language news sources in Thailand.

It's getting around.

Google lists 24,000 hits for Evil Man From Krabi search:

https://www.google.c...iw=1366&bih=585

Maybe this is what the French Canadian Belanger family have to do to get to the bottom of their daughter's deaths in Phiphi Island ... .... need to get this across to them somehow !!!

[mancub]

The business of the girl's injuries allegedly being caused by involvment in a motorcycle accident seems to have conveniently been sidelined . Presumably because it was a the best lie that he ( they) could come up with at the time ?

These things seem to get over-looked or subsequently deemed in-admissiable once the case gets to court .

[jrincon17]

Is the daughter willing to come back to testify or is this a matter of they want justice done magically. Regretfully but unavoidably, you need to have victims relive their experience through testimony if you want prosecution ... even in his country.

From what I've seen it would probably be re-enacted with the alleged rapist taking part with a stupid grin.

It seems like it's the loss of income that's the main reason for this statement.

The only reason this is seeing the light of day is $$$$ money $$ money $$ money or the lack of it to some in this case

.

Mr Minister said"the incident could not be considered rape” Referring to a police report that said that they had had a meal together. This is an outrageous statement at best. What it is saying is that in Thailand, you can eat a meal with a lady, offer her a lift to her hotel and on the way brutally bash and rape her, and ho hum, it is OK. Outrageous.

​Lets Hope that the pressure holds people accountable. If every Thai Visa members wrote to a Krabi tourist operator and let them know their thoughts, action might come with the people being effected saying nail the bu$#@rd and give genuine justice.

As a concerned human being and a father , I would write to them. Anyone have an email address?

[tombkk]

If she was my girlfriend I wouldn't have left her alone...with people you barely know....but different people I guess.

Yeah sure ...so you're implying that it was the boyfriend's fault then ? You and Nisa make a fine double-act !

Different people ? I know how a Thai man would administer perceived justice ...in a manner alot swifter and more painful than that eventually may be served by his country's court of Justice !

Rule-of-law is a cornerstone of democracy.

I hope you are not suggesting to not wait for the judge's decision and incite violence against somebody who has not been proven guilty.

[mancub]

If she was my girlfriend I wouldn't have left her alone...with people you barely know....but different people I guess.

Yeah sure ...so you're implying that it was the boyfriend's fault then ? You and Nisa make a fine double-act !

Different people ? I know how a Thai man would administer perceived justice ...in a manner alot swifter and more painful than that eventually may be served by his country's court of Justice !

Rule-of-law is a cornerstone of democracy.

I hope you are not suggesting to not wait for the judge's decision and incite violence against somebody who has not been proven guilty.

I don't believe I,m suggesting or inciting anything of the kind....I'm merely expressing an opinion ...freedom of which being another cornerstone of Democracy .

[Amras]

Amras there seem to be a few basic things you do not understand, but first the fact that the guy handed himself in and confessed was information given to the father I understand through the Netherlands Embassy or Andrew Drummond and came from police in Krabi who then were confident of a successful prosecution..

1. Comparing rape statistics between Thailand and the US is absurd. Very few people report rape to police in Thailand and go thru the courts. Its a matter settled locally.

2. Its not a matter of Thais accepting their lot. They have to. They have no choice the way the system works - unless they are influencial.

3. Very little here is transparent except some ministerial statements.

4. Thailand has the ability to 'express' court proceedings and did so in the case of the rape and murder of Katherine Horton on Koh Samui.

5. The Thai government has been promising for years to speed up its court system so justice delayed is not justice denied. It has failed to do so. At the moment if you are charged with a crime and go to trial - that trial could last several years if you plead not guilty - the record is I believe 22 years in a trial during which several lawyers, witnesses and defendants died before its conclusion.

The info about the tour guide confessing comes from the andrew drummond site. In the light of the tour guide pleading not guilty that confession may now be irrelevant and confessions made in police stations should be treated with caution. The latest story is now updated with the following.

UPDATE: The young woman's father said from Amsterdam tonight that in the light of a 'hallucinatory' statement made at Ministry level in Thailand he was now seeking advice from his own government which has been monitoring the case. He had been invited to take part in a major programme in Holland early next week and was now considering it. While his own government had not taken action, he said, he had been informed that the Swedish government was issuing a travel warning in relation to Krabi.

And finally Nisa is correct on one point. The father has not complained about police. He has complained about the justice system. And his daughter has already given evidence in court, as did Carly Reisig about the murder of Leo Del Pinto in Pai, Mae Hong Son Province.

Unfortunately unless it is in a report somewhere, it's considered hearsay. Second hand information get's twisted, not saying it has, but it can be. Is there any report anywhere that states he confessed to it originally? I haven't seen it (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I would just like to read it). If I'm missing information all well and good. I'm not defending the actions at all, please don't think I am.

1. And I would of course count that most low income and regional occurrences don't get included (and occurs to Thais). My point was simply that in that figure it would include high profile (ie Bangkok) and tourist cases. My point was that this horrible thing happens everywhere and even in a civilized western country like the US it isn't/can't be stopped and happens extremely frequently. Thailand's still behind in many ways, we all know that, yet no one's up in arms about the fact the US has such a bad record of rape as well. If they can't fix it, or stop such a prevalence of it, how can anyone expect the "behind/backward" authorities in Thailand to be able to? That's the reality. Where's the magical solution. He hasn't got off it yet, he hasn't escaped trial or punishment. He only received bail. Jumping to conclusions (no matter what has happened in the past) is premature in this particular case. Is it not?

2. Thai's don't have to accept it, it's just that they do. I never said change would be easy, but it's happened with many countries before, it just needs more people to give a dam_n to get critical mass where it makes an impact.

3. I'd disagree. Corruption is blatant and obvious in all facets of Thai society. That's what I mean by transparent. Everyone know's what goes on and how it works. The same stuff happens elsewhere, however it is covered up much better that most people don't even see it, unless you dig.

4. Fair enough, however murder is a different situation to rape. Both bad, just clearly one is a completely different and worse matter than the other.

5. Yep and our politicians promise many things as well. What are the reasons for the long delays? Too many cases, inefficient court procedures. It's a huge system to fix and we all know how things are that need complete overhauls here. Change is slow.

As to the alleged confession. There is no 'evidence' in the strictest sense of the word of that. One journalist with an unamed source as 'police said'. If that is all there is to go on, I would say it is worth very little in any court of law. If it is in fact documented but has not been released, it's a different matter.

People do and are allowed to change their pleas in all democratic societies prior to appearing before a judge though.

I agree that he probably is guilty, but he has not been released or acquitted of any charges. The charges are still outstanding and it's been 6 weeks since he appeared in court. It isn't that long ago and it could still happen sooner than anyone thinks for his trial date to come up.

Maybe we should wait until something further happens before slamming down on this specific case as another failed case of the Thai justice system.?

[onthemoon]

Its now on one of the big dutch forums like Thaivisa its not a hot topic yet but there is a link going to this forum now. I really hope it catches on. The stupid Dutch government would not apply any pressure.

What's stupid about that? It's a legal case, not a political case. No government is supposed to interfere.

That's a basic principle of democracy.

Edited November 10, 2012 by onthemoon