Gaza Crisis: Un's Ban Calls For Ceasefire After Israeli Airstrike Kills Civilians

[Morch]

Actually Israel's iron shield defence missiles have taken out almost 90% of incoming rockets.

Not.

90% of attempted interceptions were successful. An interception attempt occurs if the system detects and classifies an incoming rocket as a threat.

[uptheos]

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood have not opened the Rafah Crossing as of 1345 today....an important factor.

Guess they would sooner have an annoyed Hamas rather than an irate Israel......boy have Hamas got Hummus on their face!

[coma]

Israel's successful economy is many faceted. Agriculture, tourism, high tech, etc. Not sure how many people are aware of the massive success of their high tech sector, one of the major "Silicon Valleys" of the world.

I do not know if I would term an economy massively successful

while they still need Billions per year from others in aid

Nobody can argue this fact.

[uptheos]

Hamas would gladly enter into a ceasefire today............but, they would like to start firing rockets again on Thursday!

[kblaze]

3) Yes Hamas has done a poor job of governing and has done little to improve relations with Israel. However, your comment about Hamas building bomb shelters is laughable. Israel is using warplanes and tactical missile strikes that occur in seconds. Hamas has no way to know when and from where a strike is coming. Israel is able to use bomb shelters because the rockets are in the air for some time.

Hamas has done a horrible job of governing. How many years ago did Israel pull completely out of Gaza? 6? 7? Given a golden opportunity to build a functioning society what did they do from almost day one? Attack Israel. The people who cry about the blockade should ask themselves where Hamas gets all those rockets they shoot at Israel? Are they really surprised that Israel put up a blockade? As for Hamas not knowing when the attacks against them will come, I think you have it backwards. They know full well when they will be attacked...soon after they launch rockets into Israel.

Ok "horrible" is indeed more apt but "Golden Opportunity" is far too strong. Remember Gaza was an export driven economy; thus the private sector was crippled due to the blockade.

[coma]

Ban Ki Moon just cut a mean looking figure delivering his speech in Cairo on the current crisis in Gaza. I am sure both Israel and Hamas are shi%#ing thier respective pants after the stern warning from the head of the UN. What would the world be like without the UN?

Latest figures from the Gaza Cricket ground show the Palistinians leading in the body count 100- 3.

[uptheos]

Ban Ki Moon just cut a mean looking figure delivering his speech in Cairo on the current crisis in Gaza. I am sure both Israel and Hamas are shi%#ing thier respective pants after the stern warning from the head of the UN. What would the world be like without the UN?

Latest figures from the Gaza Cricket ground show the Palistinians leading in the body count 100- 3.

I understand Hilary is there to meet with Netanyahu and Egypt's leaders. Hamas is irrelevant because it is classified as a terrorist organisation by USA and all thinking people, so Hilary will simply give them the arse.

[coma]

Ban Ki Moon just cut a mean looking figure delivering his speech in Cairo on the current crisis in Gaza. I am sure both Israel and Hamas are shi%#ing thier respective pants after the stern warning from the head of the UN. What would the world be like without the UN?

Latest figures from the Gaza Cricket ground show the Palistinians leading in the body count 100- 3.

I understand Hilary is there to meet with Netanyahu and Egypt's leaders. Hamas is irrelevant because it is classified as a terrorist organisation by USA and all thinking people, so Hilary will simply give them the arse.

Mmm ! I see. Interesting observation.

[lemoncake]

Lemoncake; How can you not understand me?

I'm being as logical as possible; Bomb shelters are effective when you have time to get to them. Gazans don't have the time because of the weaponry used against them. Israelis do (of course not always) because of the weaponry used against them.

You seem to think that Hamas sat around a table and made a decision;

"Well fellow terrorists, we have 1000 dollars, enough for either a bomb shelter or 10 rockets. What shall we do? *Chorus of "Rockets!" rings out*"

How can you be so illogical? Israeli's are by far in worse situation than the Palestinians, because Israel sends sms messages, leaflets and phone calls in Arabic advising of the strike location, Hamas does not.

Even when Palestinians know of the air strike, they have nowhere to hide,

Israeli fighter jets are not invisible and do not just appear out of nowhere, so Palestinians have as much notice as Israeli's, the only difference is Israel build and developed an infrastructure while Hamas needs the casualties for the publicity, because in reality they(Hamas) could not care less

So no response abt bomb shelters? k.

They do not inform residents where a strike is. It would give their Hamas target the chance to flee. Frankly I'm shocked I have to explain that to you. The messages essentially say "stay away from Hamas, we are coming". I agree that it is better than nothing.

Yes the Gazans have nowhere to hide as the IAF air strikes use missles designed to penetrate buildings.

Your last comment made my jaw drop. Do you know how fighter jets work? If you see one, its already too late.

Finally, your comment that "Israel builds infrastructure, Hamas needs casualties", is just weird. Remember for every 5-10 civilian casualties, there is 1-2 Hamas militants. Why would they want casualties if they are losing top members of their organization? As much as Hamas tries to act tough, they don't want to be on the receiving end of a missle strike.

Yes Israel builds infrastructure; they are rich. Why? America...F*** Yeah!

what do you mean no response about bomb shelters? what was my post about? flowers in the garden

Fighter Jets are no different to the rockets, when you see one its too late already.

Yes Israel does inform the civilians of the bombing location, even the most anti Israel Al jAZEERA broadcasts so, try to keep up with times.

This is the reason why Hamas hides among civilians so if they do get hit, they can use the civilian toll for propaganda and its working well with some.

Your "rich" comments are just ridiculous, the amount of money Hamas wastes on rockets would be enough to develop the most undeveloped country, hope you know the costs of weapons aint cheap

Combine all the Arab states together and their money, they can cover all of Gaza in gold, but chose to use it on the rockets.

Nice to have an opinion, but its also nice to deal with reality and not made up imaginary "stories"

[Pakboong]

Again we have the world's most incompetent terrorists suffering on the short (long) end of a 30+ to 1 kill ratio. Any thinking man or woman would never consider such a ridiculous stat as a serious matter. Whatever has gone on, silly logic such as human shields and such are simply to simple to consider.

This matter, as in the past, when put to the who benefits test, does not stand up in the most basic of terms. I don't know what is going on, I only know what we think is going on is not the case. This would be a perfect opportunity for Iran go give the Palestinans their hardware to test it under real combat conditions but no such hardware is ever involved. Why not? Most consider Hamas to be an Iranian proxy. Not much of a proxy if the current situation is taken at face value.

What we are actually sure of is that we are not sure of anything.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Lets stop with the flaming shall we?

Stay on topic, and keep the discussion RELEVANT and civil, thanks.

[Steely Dan]

I hear that those evil Israelis have just destroyed Gaza's water park...no..wait.. it was Hamas, who objected to men and women mingling there. What a joy it must be having your beloved leaders storing their missiles next to your house, banning music and running a highly lucrative smuggling ring across to Sinai.

http://order-order.c...been-destroyed/

There is a point to this by the way. Hamas do benefit handsomely from control of goods going into Gaza, so any putative ceasfire based on the lifting of Israel's so called blockade is not really in their interests. Nor, apparently is improving the quality of life for their own citizens.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Steely Dan

[simple1]

The Israelis are saying that they are calling ahead of any strikes, so are they now saying if the intended target location is not contactable they abort the mission? FYI Gaza does not manage the telecommunications infrastructure; it is hosted and controlled by the Israelis.

As Hamas membership is very much embedded in the fabric of Gaza society e.g. members are in the police, social services etc. Israel is going to have to be very busy taking out the Hamas membership

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted as well as replies to them.

[OZEMADE]

The Israelis are saying that they are calling ahead of any strikes, so are they now saying if the intended target location is not contactable they abort the mission? FYI Gaza does not manage the telecommunications infrastructure; it is hosted and controlled by the Israelis.

As Hamas membership is very much embedded in the fabric of Gaza society e.g. members are in the police, social services etc. Israel is going to have to be very busy taking out the Hamas membership

By calling ahead it would probably serve two fold. One they are at least warning them of the intended strike and two if there are any weapons there and they tried to move them after the call/warning, the Israelis would see and strike immediately. If no one answers the phone, BAD LUCK.

[Scott]

When your post has been deleted, there is a reason. Re-posting will result in suspension.

Stay on the topic. Do not reply to off-topic posts. Be civil to one another.

[McMagus]

It isn't rocket science (no pun intended). If a foreign country was given land in Australia by the UN..then it progressively expanded its holdings on the same scale as is happening in Israel / Palestine ... I expect a few Aussies would be a tad pissed off and might even throw a few rocks at them. Israel can do no wrong as long as the west / Islam divide is maintained.

I am unable to upload a map showing Israeli expansion since 1946 but it makes chilling viewing. Just do a Google search on Israeli expansion and you will see what I mean.

[chooka]

Ban Ki Moon just cut a mean looking figure delivering his speech in Cairo on the current crisis in Gaza. I am sure both Israel and Hamas are shi%#ing thier respective pants after the stern warning from the head of the UN. What would the world be like without the UN?

Latest figures from the Gaza Cricket ground show the Palistinians leading in the body count 100- 3.

I understand Hilary is there to meet with Netanyahu and Egypt's leaders. Hamas is irrelevant because it is classified as a terrorist organisation by USA and all thinking people, so Hilary will simply give them the arse.

So how can you have peace talks if you give one side the arse and ignore them. I guess then that Israel and the U.S do not want peace, what are they going to discuss, the sales of arms from the U.S?

[simple1]

Ban Ki Moon just cut a mean looking figure delivering his speech in Cairo on the current crisis in Gaza. I am sure both Israel and Hamas are shi%#ing thier respective pants after the stern warning from the head of the UN. What would the world be like without the UN?

Latest figures from the Gaza Cricket ground show the Palistinians leading in the body count 100- 3.

I understand Hilary is there to meet with Netanyahu and Egypt's leaders. Hamas is irrelevant because it is classified as a terrorist organisation by USA and all thinking people, so Hilary will simply give them the arse.

So how can you have peace talks if you give one side the arse and ignore them. I guess then that Israel and the U.S do not want peace, what are they going to discuss, the sales of arms from the U.S?

US will communicate with Hamas via the Egyptians or maybe through Saudi/Qatar

[lemoncake]

It isn't rocket science (no pun intended). If a foreign country was given land in Australia by the UN..then it progressively expanded its holdings on the same scale as is happening in Israel / Palestine ... I expect a few Aussies would be a tad pissed off and might even throw a few rocks at them. Israel can do no wrong as long as the west / Islam divide is maintained.

I am unable to upload a map showing Israeli expansion since 1946 but it makes chilling viewing. Just do a Google search on Israeli expansion and you will see what I mean.

only Gaza is not occupied and terrorism increased since it was given back to Palestinians yet instead of developing, they continued with the same terror acts.

Yes you can be pissed off, but that does not change anything, perhaps time to think "outside the square" and actually do something productive with what you got.

No point picking a fight with some where you know you can not win.

If and i emphasize IF Palestinians did build an economy and did concentrate on developing, i have no doubt Israel will not have any support from anyone, but when they have spent past century on ONLY terrorism its hard to support them, though with nice fiction movies and propaganda it seems to work for some.

If Israel was as savage as some like to believe, the death toll would be thousands PER DAY and multiplying, just look at Syria

[Morch]

A Palestinian rocket struck the outskirts of Jerusalem on Tuesday, landing harmlessly in an open area in one of the longest rocket strikes fired from the Gaza Strip in nearly a week of fighting.

The rocket attack, the second aimed at the holy city since an Israeli offensive began a week ago, set off air raid sirens throughout the metropolis. A distant explosion could be heard in the city's downtown.

http://hosted.ap.org...-11-20-07-51-27

Edit - 2 rockets, one near a Palestinian village (same as last time), second nearer Hebron (Nablus). Apparently no harm done.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Morch

[coma]

Ban Ki Moon just cut a mean looking figure delivering his speech in Cairo on the current crisis in Gaza. I am sure both Israel and Hamas are shi%#ing thier respective pants after the stern warning from the head of the UN. What would the world be like without the UN?

Latest figures from the Gaza Cricket ground show the Palistinians leading in the body count 100- 3.

I understand Hilary is there to meet with Netanyahu and Egypt's leaders. Hamas is irrelevant because it is classified as a terrorist organisation by USA and all thinking people, so Hilary will simply give them the arse.

So how can you have peace talks if you give one side the arse and ignore them. I guess then that Israel and the U.S do not want peace, what are they going to discuss, the sales of arms from the U.S?

US will communicate with Hamas via the Egyptians or maybe through Saudi/Qatar

Yes. The US will indeed be communicating with Hamas one way or another. To think otherwise would be naive. They just don't want to be seen doing it infront of the world stage. But at the end of the day when it is all said and done and the dust settles [momentarily] it will be a fruitless exercise.

Edited November 20, 2012 by coma

[lemoncake]

Yes. The US will indeed be communicating with Hamas one way or another. To think otherwise would be naive. They just don't want to be seen doing it infront of the world stage. But at the end of the day when it is all said and done and the dust settles [momentarily] it will be a fruitless exercise.

Apparently according to some news reports, Hamas is the one who is not listening to Egypt at all, so perhaps any and all talks are fruitless.Though Iran may have some weight there

[coma]

Yes. The US will indeed be communicating with Hamas one way or another. To think otherwise would be naive. They just don't want to be seen doing it infront of the world stage. But at the end of the day when it is all said and done and the dust settles [momentarily] it will be a fruitless exercise.

Apparently according to some news reports, Hamas is the one who is not listening to Egypt at all, so perhaps any and all talks are fruitless.Though Iran may have some weight there

I think when it comes to peace negotiations between Israel and Palistine, Iran has no weight to pull at all. A much over stated player in this situation. Just my opinion of course.

[lemoncake]

Yes. The US will indeed be communicating with Hamas one way or another. To think otherwise would be naive. They just don't want to be seen doing it infront of the world stage. But at the end of the day when it is all said and done and the dust settles [momentarily] it will be a fruitless exercise.

Apparently according to some news reports, Hamas is the one who is not listening to Egypt at all, so perhaps any and all talks are fruitless.Though Iran may have some weight there

I think when it comes to peace negotiations between Israel and Palistine, Iran has no weight to pull at all. A much over stated player in this situation. Just my opinion of course.

correct, but Iran does have the pull on Hamas in all aspects as they are the ones supplying weapons, which Hamas already confirmed the other day.

[nurofiend]

The death toll on Palestinian side is a direct result of Hamas failure to protect its citizens, the fewer death toll in Israel is ONLY due to Israeli government pro active actions such as bomb shelters, warning sirens

i think that may be the most ill-informed comment i've heard in quite a while.

The comment shows a blatant lack of understanding of the situation.

On the contrary, it shows an acute awareness of the cultural divide between Gazan and Israeli culture. In Gaza martyrdom is a blessed event. In Israel, someone's death is considered a tragedy. Know what? I like the Israeli position alot better than I do of the Hamas march to martyrhood.

on the contrary it shows a lack of acknowledgment/awareness of the difference in firepower between the two.

[Steely Dan]

Again we have the world's most incompetent terrorists suffering on the short (long) end of a 30+ to 1 kill ratio. Any thinking man or woman would never consider such a ridiculous stat as a serious matter. Whatever has gone on, silly logic such as human shields and such are simply to simple to consider.

This matter, as in the past, when put to the who benefits test, does not stand up in the most basic of terms. I don't know what is going on, I only know what we think is going on is not the case. This would be a perfect opportunity for Iran go give the Palestinans their hardware to test it under real combat conditions but no such hardware is ever involved. Why not? Most consider Hamas to be an Iranian proxy. Not much of a proxy if the current situation is taken at face value.

What we are actually sure of is that we are not sure of anything.

Let's have a little fact check here shall we. First of all Iran do supply Hamas, Hamas have indeed admitted as much. As for their incompetence, I would suggest that they do have an improved arsenal as witnessed by missiles landing in the vicinity of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, however Iron Dome intercepts about 90% of the missiles thought to be a threat. It is actually too bad for Gaza's residents that they have no Iron Dome, seeing as Hamas hit their own with friendly fire twice as often as they hit the Israelis. Still, every death is a winner of sort as long as the media follow the narrative.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/hamas-rockets-hit-their-own-civilians-twice-as-often-as-they-hit-israelis/

Poor little Mahmood Sadallah, I expect the press will be along soon to record this human tragedy.

[simple1]

Again we have the world's most incompetent terrorists suffering on the short (long) end of a 30+ to 1 kill ratio. Any thinking man or woman would never consider such a ridiculous stat as a serious matter. Whatever has gone on, silly logic such as human shields and such are simply to simple to consider.

This matter, as in the past, when put to the who benefits test, does not stand up in the most basic of terms. I don't know what is going on, I only know what we think is going on is not the case. This would be a perfect opportunity for Iran go give the Palestinans their hardware to test it under real combat conditions but no such hardware is ever involved. Why not? Most consider Hamas to be an Iranian proxy. Not much of a proxy if the current situation is taken at face value.

What we are actually sure of is that we are not sure of anything.

Let's have a little fact check here shall we. First of all Iran do supply Hamas, Hamas have indeed admitted as much. As for their incompetence, I would suggest that they do have an improved arsenal as witnessed by missiles landing in the vicinity of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, however Iron Dome intercepts about 90% of the missiles thought to be a threat. It is actually too bad for Gaza's residents that they have no Iron Dome, seeing as Hamas hit their own with friendly fire twice as often as they hit the Israelis. Still, every death is a winner of sort as long as the media follow the narrative.

http://frontpagemag....y-hit-israelis/

Poor little Mahmood Sadallah, I expect the press will be along soon to record this human tragedy.

This incident was reported on CNN if I remember correctly sometime yesterday. As you said, with no facetiousness on my part "Poor little Mahmood Sadallah" As quoted from the anti Islamic web media source:

Blogger Elder of Ziyon notes, “CNN here does not admit that they reported the accusation as fact and still pretends that there is still a good chance that the child and neighbor were killed by an Israeli airstrike. Slightly more accurate; but no indication of regret for a slander.”

[Meetoo]

so what is the alternative? sit and wait to be wiped out? or perhaps give more privileges to those who openly state they want you dead.

proportional response? would that be rocket for a rocket?,aimed ONLY at civilians? would that be proportional and gain more support?

Palestinians are good at propaganda and pointing fingers, they start to fire rockets, blame Israel, they do not have enough money to support their corruption-blame Israel. Perhaps if less money was wasted on rockets, there would be more money for the people.

Hamas is good and firing rockets, why have they not bothered to build shelters for its citizens? Because civilian death toll benefits them.

Why do they store rockets in schools, and apartments?-because death toll benefits them,

Just now, out in the news, that building where family of 10 was killed, was actually also where 4 jihad commanders were hiding. 2 have been killed and this is confirmed by Palestinians(on Al jazeera now)

So if Gaza Government does not care about its own people, and does not protect them, why should Israel? and why should Israeli's suffer?

The death toll on Palestinian side is a direct result of Hamas failure to protect its citizens, the fewer death toll in Israel is ONLY due to Israeli government pro active actions such as bomb shelters, warning sirens

1) Both sides use propaganda (you could say every govt in the world does really)

2) No, Israel doesn't have to "sit back and do nothing", that is ridiculous.

3) Yes Hamas has done a poor job of governing and has done little to improve relations with Israel. However, your comment about Hamas building bomb shelters is laughable. Israel is using warplanes and tactical missile strikes that occur in seconds. Hamas has no way to know when and from where a strike is coming. Israel is able to use bomb shelters because the rockets are in the air for some time.

4) To clarify what another poster may have meant when responding that your comment was "ill-informed"-- Israel has the money to buy sophisticated, powerful weapons = more Gazan casualties. Gaza's economy is crippled due to the land and sea blockade Israel has strapped the Strip with, thus very little in terms of revenue for the government (Hamas), thus they have shitty weapons (rockets and mortars)that are generally sourced from neighboring ME allies. The fact that you don't acknowledge this glaring fact is what makes your comment "ill-informed".

The warning sirens and bomb shelters and the plans for escape that the Israeli govt has are great, no doubt, but the primary reason that 90% of the rockets don't cause damage or injury is because they are just shot randomly over the border and the bordering region is mostly farmland and their poor quality often results in them being "duds". The rockets are poor in quality and have a relatively small blast radius. The scary part for Israelis that there are new rockets that can travel 45 km. However Iron Dome, which they employ for "threat rockets", ones heading to a populated area, are 90% effective and thanks to the US' unending financial support ($205 million since 2010--and this only for Iron Dome development) are getting more effective and advanced.

From above Kblaze " Israel is using warplanes and tactical missile strikes that occur in seconds. / Israel has the money to buy sophisticated, powerful weapons = more Gazan casualties" YES AND who is financing this..?? Helping them $$$ to acquire these sophisticated war toys..?? Ummm.. Wonder ???

[Morch]

Palestinian gunmen shot dead six alleged collaborators in the Gaza Strip who "were caught red-handed", according to a security source quoted by the Hamas Aqsa radio on Tuesday.

"They possessed hi-tech equipment and filming equipment to take footage of positions," it said.

The Hamas radio said the men, who were suspected of working for Israel, were shot. It did not elaborate.

Gunmen chained the body of one of the alleged collaborators to a motorcycle and dragged it throughout the main streets of Gaza City.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/20/us-palestinians-israel-collaborators-idUSBRE8AJ0WA20121120