But we call the Honda CB650F a Japanese motorcycle, while we call the Benelli BN600 a Chinese motorcycle...

Well not all of us

But that is a funny way of putting it ...True 100% but funny too

Dear other users on Thai visa, you will never convince people that Benelli is a Italian product. While we can find proof who designed the motorcycle, we know where he was working when he designed the motorcycle, we know where he build the first prototype, we know were and who approved to start to make preparation to start mass production happened... Yes this was all in Italy.,

Lets compare that with the Honda CB650F, which we can also find a lot information about, the project leader of the design is Japanese, but is based in Thailand at Honda R&D Asia and most of his workers are from Thailand and even some are Indian... The Honda CB650F is prototype is build in Thailand and shown to the top branch of Honda Asia... which is mostly Thai nationals... The motorcycle gets its Honda HQ (Japan) approval on specs and performance figures... and goes into production without anybody in Japan ever touching the motorcycle....

The Honda CB650F is a marvelous machine and it's a serious competitor for the Benelli BN600. But we call the Honda CB650F a Japanese motorcycle, while we call the Benelli BN600 a Chinese motorcycle...

Its funny really that when you look back and read the reactions of some people here in the first few pages of this thread. So much unfounded hate and ignorance about the Benelli brand. Now a few people have driven one and even the haters admit that its not such a bad bike at all. Sure not on the same level with the latest and greatest Honda but even Benelli themselves were not making any claims like that.

The Chinese are here to stay, they buy western brands and use them as they seem fit, like it or not. They will improve and their first 4 cylinder motorbike is not a bad start at all, imagine where they will be 10 years from now and also imagine where Honda will be if they continue the way they do now with their new commuter line (cbr 250/500/650 bikes) .... its a slippery slope

Dear other users on Thai visa, you will never convince people that Benelli is a Italian product. While we can find proof who designed the motorcycle, we know where he was working when he designed the motorcycle, we know where he build the first prototype, we know were and who approved to start to make preparation to start mass production happened... Yes this was all in Italy.,

Lets compare that with the Honda CB650F, which we can also find a lot information about, the project leader of the design is Japanese, but is based in Thailand at Honda R&D Asia and most of his workers are from Thailand and even some are Indian... The Honda CB650F is prototype is build in Thailand and shown to the top branch of Honda Asia... which is mostly Thai nationals... The motorcycle gets its Honda HQ (Japan) approval on specs and performance figures... and goes into production without anybody in Japan ever touching the motorcycle....

The Honda CB650F is a marvelous machine and it's a serious competitor for the Benelli BN600. But we call the Honda CB650F a Japanese motorcycle, while we call the Benelli BN600 a Chinese motorcycle...

Its funny really that when you look back and read the reactions of some people here in the first few pages of this thread. So much unfounded hate and ignorance about the Benelli brand. Now a few people have driven one and even the haters admit that its not such a bad bike at all. Sure not on the same level with the latest and greatest Honda but even Benelli themselves were not making any claims like that.

The Chinese are here to stay, they buy western brands and use them as they seem fit, like it or not. They will improve and their first 4 cylinder motorbike is not a bad start at all, imagine where they will be 10 years from now and also imagine where Honda will be if they continue the way they do now with their new commuter line (cbr 250/500/650 bikes) .... its a slippery slope

Pokerkid,

You forget that Benelli was a motorcycle brand, and until now has been an uninterrupted manufacturer of motorcycles in Italy.... since 1911 (with exception of the war time at the Benelli company refused to produce war equipment) some of the Benelli family had to pay the highest price for that...

With 2 models produced in China out of the full international lineup I would hardly call Benelli a Chinese manufacturer. BMW produce more of its current motorcycles models in China.... and I can give many more examples...

Interesting discussion. Learned some new things. Thanks.

Maybe it's for people living in Thailand hard to imagine that when they bought a Honda scooter which featured combined braking they where actually paying a percentage to the designer of the Benelli BN600 motorcycle....

To be honest it's likely that most manufactures who produce smaller combustion sized engines pay at some point royalties to Mr. Pierluigi Marconi.

For instance how the engine lubricate the piston and crankshaft, or for the twin-swing axle suspension ... okay less relative on most modern motorcycles...

But lets get to the biggest direct... how a cable connection opens a shaft... (Additional to this was not so long ago was electronically added, which is currently in depute) But most lawyers have the idea that Mr. Maroni will win as the spirit of the action and reaction is the same while it's only differently transmitted....

Benelli is a Chinese owned company hence Chinese. Honda is a Japanese owned company hence Japanese. Doesn't really matter so much WHERE they are made. And as far as I'm aware the Honda CB 650 range are world bikes (ie same specs world over) the Benelli sold here in Thailand isn't the same specs as say what's sold in the UK. Fairly big difference!

Benelli is a Chinese owned company hence Chinese. Honda is a Japanese owned company hence Japanese. Doesn't really matter so much WHERE they are made. And as far as I'm aware the Honda CB 650 range are world bikes (ie same specs world over) the Benelli sold here in Thailand isn't the same specs as say what's sold in the UK. Fairly big difference!

Wouldn't that make Ducati a German bike? Shudder the thought :-)

Benelli is a Chinese owned company hence Chinese. Honda is a Japanese owned company hence Japanese. Doesn't really matter so much WHERE they are made. And as far as I'm aware the Honda CB 650 range are world bikes (ie same specs world over) the Benelli sold here in Thailand isn't the same specs as say what's sold in the UK. Fairly big difference!

Dear Casualbiker,

Honda is a international public company, and the majority of the shareholders are not always from the country of the rising-sun. To be honest if you had done your research you would have known that Honda is at the moment is not that much owned by the Japanese as you would like.

.........

All this technical talk is really interesting, for those that are interested.

At the end of the day, I'm a potential customer. If I have to pay the same money for a Kawa 650 or Honda 650 or Benelli (600/650 whatever), which should I buy and why?

My criteria:

- hassle free - ie starts every time, little maintenance required, reliable

- good servicing network - as I will need to service it as per manufacturers recommendation

- good after sales service (Honda Big Wing does track days, Kawa does riders instruction courses, Ducati has the DRE courses etc)

- good performance - acceleration, top speed

- resale value

- abundant after market parts

- affordable replacement parts (and servicing)

- x factor

Any PR / sales persons out there?

Benelli is a Chinese owned company hence Chinese. Honda is a Japanese owned company hence Japanese. Doesn't really matter so much WHERE they are made. And as far as I'm aware the Honda CB 650 range are world bikes (ie same specs world over) the Benelli sold here in Thailand isn't the same specs as say what's sold in the UK. Fairly big difference!

Dear Casualbiker,

Honda is a international public company, and the majority of the shareholders are not always from the country of the rising-sun. To be honest if you had done your research you would have known that Honda is at the moment is not that much owned by the Japanese as you would like.

.........

Richard, seriously, - HONDA is a "Japanese" public multinational corporation. (the corporate nationality of minor shareholders couldn't be less relevant to your point).

With 2 models produced in China out of the full international lineup I would hardly call Benelli a Chinese manufacturer.

Yes I forgot to mention that.

China bike haters focus so much on their hate that they can not see the truth out there, I think its called selective retention.

They read the news and see that Benelli has been bought by Keeway and that is enough for them to form an opinion .

At least one of the biggest China bike haters on this board took a test ride the other day on a Benelli and even he agreed that its a proper motorbike although it is true that the Honda is the bike to beat (for all manufacturers) and will be for many more years to come.

All this technical talk is really interesting, for those that are interested.

At the end of the day, I'm a potential customer. If I have to pay the same money for a Kawa 650 or Honda 650 or Benelli (600/650 whatever), which should I buy and why?

My criteria:

- hassle free - ie starts every time, little maintenance required, reliable

- good servicing network - as I will need to service it as per manufacturers recommendation

- good after sales service (Honda Big Wing does track days, Kawa does riders instruction courses, Ducati has the DRE courses etc)

- good performance - acceleration, top speed

- resale value

- abundant after market parts

- affordable replacement parts (and servicing)

- x factor

Any PR / sales persons out there?

Prices I think are as follows

( Since Benelli is naked style will use naked style models from the other tow brands)

Benelli 600 = 269k Baht

Kawasaki ER650 = 275k Baht

Honda 650F = 286k Baht

Out of those of course the Kawa is a twin so something to consider about engine characteristics etc.

Servicing....I dont know about Beneli I do know the other two are well established...but again we hear good & bad on some dealerships

I see new Benelli dealerships starting up but do not know the history as there is not much yet afaik

Performance = no 1st hand experience myself & for really using one & would not count folks who rode one for a few minutes

Have spoke to one owner who use to post here & he thought it was "The deal of the century" his words not mine.

Resale value = Thailand these days? Resale Sux for all bikes you buy new you take the biggest hit

Aftermarket parts I would guess the Kawa & Honda get more attention from after market folks. Then again many things these days are adaptable

so that may help.

Personally I think when Benelli first came they were a great deal for someone willing to try as there were really no 4cyl bikes yet in that size here.

Now that the Honda has arrived I think most would go that route based on their history/reputation etc.

Benelli if a good product will need time to grow their reputation & IMO at this stage should be price a bit lower to become attractive to those willing to take the chance

Here are some figures from a sheet I keep on most bikes.

The Honda I had the CBR so just adjust that price & price per HP because all specs are the same for the Honda's anyway

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Dear other users on Thai visa, you will never convince people that Benelli is a Italian product. While we can find proof who designed the motorcycle, we know where he was working when he designed the motorcycle, we know where he build the first prototype, we know were and who approved to start to make preparation to start mass production happened... Yes this was all in Italy.,

Lets compare that with the Honda CB650F, which we can also find a lot information about, the project leader of the design is Japanese, but is based in Thailand at Honda R&D Asia and most of his workers are from Thailand and even some are Indian... The Honda CB650F is prototype is build in Thailand and shown to the top branch of Honda Asia... which is mostly Thai nationals... The motorcycle gets its Honda HQ (Japan) approval on specs and performance figures... and goes into production without anybody in Japan ever touching the motorcycle....

The Honda CB650F is a marvelous machine and it's a serious competitor for the Benelli BN600. But we call the Honda CB650F a Japanese motorcycle, while we call the Benelli BN600 a Chinese motorcycle...

...imagine where they will be 10 years from now and also imagine where Honda will be if they continue the way they do now with their new commuter line (cbr 250/500/650 bikes) .... its a slippery slope

yeah, that is why Honda is the best selling motorcycle manufacturer on Earth for years and their sales are ever increasing as well.

Honda did a really good business on the bikes you mentioned.

All this technical talk is really interesting, for those that are interested.

At the end of the day, I'm a potential customer. If I have to pay the same money for a Kawa 650 or Honda 650 or Benelli (600/650 whatever), which should I buy and why?

My criteria:
- hassle free - ie starts every time, little maintenance required, reliable
- good servicing network - as I will need to service it as per manufacturers recommendation
- good after sales service (Honda Big Wing does track days, Kawa does riders instruction courses, Ducati has the DRE courses etc)
- good performance - acceleration, top speed
- resale value
- abundant after market parts
- affordable replacement parts (and servicing)
- x factor

Any PR / sales persons out there?

Prices I think are as follows

( Since Benelli is naked style will use naked style models from the other tow brands)

Benelli 600 = 269k Baht
Kawasaki ER650 = 275k Baht
Honda 650F = 286k Baht

Out of those of course the Kawa is a twin so something to consider about engine characteristics etc.

Servicing....I dont know about Beneli I do know the other two are well established...but again we hear good & bad on some dealerships
I see new Benelli dealerships starting up but do not know the history as there is not much yet afaik

Performance = no 1st hand experience myself & for really using one & would not count folks who rode one for a few minutes
Have spoke to one owner who use to post here & he thought it was "The deal of the century" his words not mine.

Resale value = Thailand these days? Resale Sux for all bikes you buy new you take the biggest hit

Aftermarket parts I would guess the Kawa & Honda get more attention from after market folks. Then again many things these days are adaptable
so that may help.

Personally I think when Benelli first came they were a great deal for someone willing to try as there were really no 4cyl bikes yet in that size here.
Now that the Honda has arrived I think most would go that route based on their history/reputation etc.
Benelli if a good product will need time to grow their reputation & IMO at this stage should be price a bit lower to become attractive to those willing to take the chance

Here are some figures from a sheet I keep on most bikes.
The Honda I had the CBR so just adjust that price & price per HP because all specs are the same for the Honda's anyway

just would like to correct the inform on that spread sheet:

1- Benelli 600 is 220 kg! wet which is 485 lbs - in Murican terms. - close to kawa z1000!.

2- Cb 650f is 206 kg which is 454 lbs for better comparison as cbr650f is heavier.

Also are you sure about the price Gweilo? I got this price info off Facebook, published in March this year, so not that recent but I can't find anything better.

Just to ad fuel to the fire.

I have heard though might not be true that model in Thailand is limited to 55 HP or so. Also seen the review of some Russian biker reviewing it, he opened up the bike from every single hole to show everything. The engine is great but the wiring quality if very cheap. Also one funny moment was when he opened passenger seat at the back there was a button that said CHOKE upon pressing which the drivers seat would unlock:)

Anyway I guy running a sport bike shop in CR said his friend assembling benellis not sure how credible but said materials are very cheap low quality except for those coming from Italy like engine.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Dear other users on Thai visa, you will never convince people that Benelli is a Italian product. While we can find proof who designed the motorcycle, we know where he was working when he designed the motorcycle, we know where he build the first prototype, we know were and who approved to start to make preparation to start mass production happened... Yes this was all in Italy.,

Lets compare that with the Honda CB650F, which we can also find a lot information about, the project leader of the design is Japanese, but is based in Thailand at Honda R&D Asia and most of his workers are from Thailand and even some are Indian... The Honda CB650F is prototype is build in Thailand and shown to the top branch of Honda Asia... which is mostly Thai nationals... The motorcycle gets its Honda HQ (Japan) approval on specs and performance figures... and goes into production without anybody in Japan ever touching the motorcycle....

The Honda CB650F is a marvelous machine and it's a serious competitor for the Benelli BN600. But we call the Honda CB650F a Japanese motorcycle, while we call the Benelli BN600 a Chinese motorcycle...

...imagine where they will be 10 years from now and also imagine where Honda will be if they continue the way they do now with their new commuter line (cbr 250/500/650 bikes) .... its a slippery slope

yeah, that is why Honda is the best selling motorcycle manufacturer on Earth for years and their sales are ever increasing as well.

Honda did a really good business on the bikes you mentioned.

I forgot that you don't get sarcasm . So I will try to say it as clear as can.

What i was trying to say is that many people (except newbies , commuters and rationalists) get bored with the latest offerings from Honda. Nothing wrong with those bikes except they lack character.

So if your into the latest and greatest japanese bike's Honda is the one to get but if you want some individuality and style look somewhere else.

interesting reading , i cannot comment on benelli Thailand but i can comment about them in Australia, as a close personal friend bought a TNT 1130 here in Brisbane and after i had problems with the electronic he was informed that he would have to take the bike to Sydney to get it fixed,

'why" he asked , and although the bike was only 4 months old and still under factory/manufacturers warranty, the "dealer" replied "we are only an agent, and don't do warranty work" .

so old mate had to transport bike, on a trailer as it was unrideable. approx 100 km's to get his warranty honoured.

i was tempted by a benelli myself after visiting the showroom in pattaya, the TNT range look absolutely horn but after speaking to people in OZ including the owner of a motorcycle workshop,i have decided against it, i will happily pay a premium price tag and get a less attractive big as i want something that i can own for a long time and not have reliability or servicing problems!

so i bought a yamaha bolt !

rob b

'

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Dear other users on Thai visa, you will never convince people that Benelli is a Italian product. While we can find proof who designed the motorcycle, we know where he was working when he designed the motorcycle, we know where he build the first prototype, we know were and who approved to start to make preparation to start mass production happened... Yes this was all in Italy.,

Lets compare that with the Honda CB650F, which we can also find a lot information about, the project leader of the design is Japanese, but is based in Thailand at Honda R&D Asia and most of his workers are from Thailand and even some are Indian... The Honda CB650F is prototype is build in Thailand and shown to the top branch of Honda Asia... which is mostly Thai nationals... The motorcycle gets its Honda HQ (Japan) approval on specs and performance figures... and goes into production without anybody in Japan ever touching the motorcycle....

The Honda CB650F is a marvelous machine and it's a serious competitor for the Benelli BN600. But we call the Honda CB650F a Japanese motorcycle, while we call the Benelli BN600 a Chinese motorcycle...

...imagine where they will be 10 years from now and also imagine where Honda will be if they continue the way they do now with their new commuter line (cbr 250/500/650 bikes) .... its a slippery slope

yeah, that is why Honda is the best selling motorcycle manufacturer on Earth for years and their sales are ever increasing as well.

Honda did a really good business on the bikes you mentioned.

I forgot that you don't get sarcasm . So I will try to say it as clear as can.

What i was trying to say is that many people (except newbies , commuters and rationalists) get bored with the latest offerings from Honda. Nothing wrong with those bikes except they lack character.

So if your into the latest and greatest japanese bike's Honda is the one to get but if you want some individuality and style look somewhere else.

well, i believe Honda is offering a lot of style as well.

you are always missing a major point poker kid.

Style, looks, fun, soul, sporty character, they are all in the eye of the beholder.

it is always an empty talk to discuss tastes.

I mean all of us are aware of the fact that Benelli cannot compete with cb650f in its current technology, quality and price.

And i was the one criticizing this bike and approaching it with a mean precaution - which is my right as a biker of course! - but again i was the one tested it and said it is a proper bike with some less quality components and even have some Italian soul when you close your eyes or look at it from the rear.

Benelli needs to review its price structure ASAP if they want to stay in the market longer in competitive terms.

as even a small kid knows Honda offers a better value and a better substantial product with Honda quality, service and reliability. Discussing this does not move us anywhere. But yeah, you found soul on this bike and it moves your heartbeat faster, you just get the Benelli. There is nothing wrong with that.

Anyway back to the topic.

I have seen the brochure rambling posted. What is this new 'bn600i' model? It is expensive than the base model so what it offers more?

anyone knows?

i always wondered what was going on with those different body styles, one might be a european spec ?

On the UK website they show the two models as well. But no clear difference between them.

i always wondered what was going on with those different body styles, one might be a european spec ?

That's what I thought too but doesn't look like it, the brakes on the "i" are Benelli rather than Brembo, and no Marzocchi either. Looks like a body styling difference.

i always wondered what was going on with those different body styles, one might be a european spec ?

That's what I thought too but doesn't look like it, the brakes on the "i" are Benelli rather than Brembo, and no Marzocchi either. Looks like a body styling difference.

Do the Thai Benelli 600's have Brembo and Marzocchi parts installed!

They don't, the 600R version sold in Europe does.

i always wondered what was going on with those different body styles, one might be a european spec ?

That's what I thought too but doesn't look like it, the brakes on the "i" are Benelli rather than Brembo, and no Marzocchi either. Looks like a body styling difference.

Do the Thai Benelli 600's have Brembo and Marzocchi parts installed!

Only European version do i think.

i always wondered what was going on with those different body styles, one might be a european spec ?

That's what I thought too but doesn't look like it, the brakes on the "i" are Benelli rather than Brembo, and no Marzocchi either. Looks like a body styling difference.

Do the Thai Benelli 600's have Brembo and Marzocchi parts installed!

The ones I saw in Ubon showroom did have them

i always wondered what was going on with those different body styles, one might be a european spec ?

That's what I thought too but doesn't look like it, the brakes on the "i" are Benelli rather than Brembo, and no Marzocchi either. Looks like a body styling difference.

Do the Thai Benelli 600's have Brembo and Marzocchi parts installed!

The ones I saw in Ubon showroom did have them

How much was the bike? I wonder if they were real or Thai Brembo!

i always wondered what was going on with those different body styles, one might be a european spec ?

That's what I thought too but doesn't look like it, the brakes on the "i" are Benelli rather than Brembo, and no Marzocchi either. Looks like a body styling difference.

Do the Thai Benelli 600's have Brembo and Marzocchi parts installed!

The ones I saw in Ubon showroom did have them

How much was the bike? I wonder if they were real or Thai Brembo!

Sorry, I didn't keep the price list. It maybe on FB??

Also are you sure about the price Gweilo? I got this price info off Facebook, published in March this year, so not that recent but I can't find anything better.

Holy christ! That BN600 GT is an abomination. Take the bags and topbox off and it still looks horrible! (I saw an image without bags on the web) That fairing belongs on a Keeway RGV200....or something similar.

I just dropped by the Benelli dealer on Kaset-Nawamin. They have both 600i and 600j in the showroom (as well as the other models, many 300..). I can confirm neither version of the 600 sold here has the Brembo or Marzocchi. I asked about it and was told they don't bring them into Thailand because they would be too expensive. Prices for i and j are as indicated in the image I posted earlier, no change.

As for the difference between i and j, it's the bodywork in front, the tank shape and i is also slightly higher. I only sat on the i version so not sure by how much it is higher. I'm 1.71m I could put both feet down but not flat (unlike on my CB500F).

Unfortunately they don't let people do test rides. I was told this is because they don't have an enclosed area for this and the main road is too risky. After seeing complete noobs try out CBR650 in Honda Big Wing and dropping the bike it's hard to blame them but still, I arrived on my bike and was fully geared, and who would buy without a test ride?

The sales person was very friendly overall you get a good vibe from the staff. They did turn the engine on for me and it sounds really nice, I guess they removed the DB killer and that thing makes a lot of noise. Overall quality looks fine to me, some things look good like braided wires, some less so like the plastic controls for signaling etc which felt a bit cheap and flimsy compared to my Honda. Design is obviously subjective, but I think they look great, especially in white.

One word about the workshop, there are only 2 mechanics, and quite a small area which didn't seem that well stocked. This is to be expected given it's a more exotic bike and they simply don't have the sales numbers Honda or Kawa have. If someone really likes the bike and uses it as a fun toy rather than a commute workhorse I wouldn't let it deter me too much.

P.S. before some people start accusing me of this or that, I will lay it here that I am partial to Italian machines, I drive an Alfa Romeo which was built here in Thailand (they were CKD assembled in Rayong). My personal point of view is that I care more about where the machine was designed / engineered rather than where it was built, and how much fun it is rather than maintenance cost. Obviously different people will have different needs and preferences. I enjoy and like my Honda but I don't have a brand loyalty, when I upgrade I will consider all marques. I'm not quite there yet ;-)

I drive an Alfa Romeo which was built here in Thailand (they were CKD assembled in Rayong).

Sorry a bit off topic, but since I'm a big Alfa Romeo fan. I had to look up which model was made in Thailand,...... never knew that the 156 was produced in Thailand as well:-) (and I have many books about the brand and it's history) Any other models were made here?? How's availablity of parts / service for the 156 in Thailand?