Debit Card Cash Withdrawals Worry Bank Of Thailand

[lemoncake]

as long as some unscrupulous retailers charge 2-4 percent for using a card..even a debit card.. this is the way of the future. surely its not down to consumer education but retailer training

No one is forcing you to use card. If you use it you pay the surcharge of which you are always advised.

What is so unscrupulous about charging for use of credit card?

[saengsureeya]

First of all......if you could slide your debet card through things that usually don't see the sun, the cash withdrawals would subside.

Second.....the BoT (read: the Govt) is afraid of missing a great deal of 7% VAT over cash purchases.

[belg]

in a lot of restaurants with member cards : 10% cash or 5% for credit card... a no brainer for me

ah yeah... as a farang without work permit (don't want too, don't need) try to get a credit card...

they give to farmers and people with very low income (below 20k) ...

try to tell them how much you have in your savings account, but that won't change their mind, as they want to follow the rules...

a 5k per month thai person can get a CC card in this country, a farang with 100x that on his "immigration" account, will not get it

[khunken]

First of all......if you could slide your debet card through things that usually don't see the sun, the cash withdrawals would subside.

Second.....the BoT (read: the Govt) is afraid of missing a great deal of 7% VAT over cash purchases.

Don't understand your first sentence. The second one is wrong - retailers pay VAT no matter what method of payment is used.

This is a stupid BOT statement. My bank won't issue me with an ATM card - it must be a debit card. I just use it as an ATM card. It is quicker & cheaper & safer to withdraw cash & pay by cash than use a debit card for payment - given the time taken, the possible disappearing of the card out of your sight for a minute or two & a possible surcharge (which goes back to the bank). What the BOT needs to do is make the banks more consumer friendly.

[Suradit69]

Whats not to understand ?? by its very name a Debit card means the amount withdrawn is debited from the money in the cardholders account , but from what i have read about the way things are done in thailand it wouldnt surprise me if I am wrong !

"Debit-card spending stood ..., mainly through cash advances"

I've never had a debit card so maybe I'm missing something, but aren't you making a withdrawal of your own money? An "advance" would imply you're getting money that you'll need to pay back later, which to me sounds like a credit card transaction.

Possibly the person writing the article and the person translating it into English became a little free and easy with the terms.

[poohy]

A debit card withdrawal is very different to a cash advance on a Credit Card

A debit card withdrawal is just a cash transaction ( getting your own cash )

However I think the article is referring to Credit card CASH ADVANCES which as a lending manager for a UK bank many years ago is the first sign of an account under strain i.e. living beyond its means

If this is the case yes the BOT should indeed be worried!

just my thoughts...

[Time Traveller]

All the banks need to do is introduce a 150 Baht charge for every ATM debit card withdrawal. That'll make people think twice about trying to get hold of their own money. Of course, there'd be massive complaints about so unfair a practice.

Doubt it. If banks did that they would soon realize people don't bother putting any money in deposit with the banks.

[Basil B]

Well with interest rates so low, and charges escalating to pay big bounces to under preforming executives, who in their right mind would keep there money in a bank.

I used to to hold shares in many banks here in the UK, what is clear individual shareholders voices have been drowned out by institutional share holders (mainly other banks who invest their clients money) who have formed an "Old Boys" network of "you scratch my back and I will scratch yours" so that top executives have turned into lazy fat cats who nobody can kick out.

[JoePai]

as long as some unscrupulous retailers charge 2-4 percent for using a card..even a debit card.. this is the way of the future. surely its not down to consumer education but retailer training

I think you will find some small businesses charge a fee because the banks charge them a fee so they have to pass it on - they do not (should not !) make a profit from it.

[Tolley]

I'm a bit confused about the article referring to debit card withdrawals as "cash advances" which I consider and altogether different thing.

It's hardly a wonder that Thais prefer credit cards to debit as every day they are bombarded with credit card promotions from retailers encouraging their use. As for debit card use, I've been in fairly large stores that said cash only or would only take it if the purchase was at least 250 baht. This is no doubt due to the fees imposed on the retailer. And of course the average Thai buying food, clothing and other items from small vendors and street stalls is going to need cash on hand. Since most banks only allow a few free debit card ATM withdrawals before tacking on a fee it would make sense they would withdraw larger amounts each time.

Another thing that baffles me here is that the debit cards are standard issue...no name or real security features. All you get is a PIN number as you would with an ATM card. The only time the pin is used is at the ATM. Every time I plunk my debit card down to buy something and then sign the receipt all I can think about is that I know that I just used my own card and signed my own name but they don't. I could have walked in with someone else's card or them mine and no one would be the wiser. Back home all debit transactions required the use of your pin.

Yes, must agree wholeheartedly with all said here, It was a real shock for me when i realised anyone could walk into any Big C / Lotus etc and buy themselves anything they want, up to the limit of my Atm/debit card, as non of the bank tellers even bothered to compare the signatures on the till slip and the back of the card.

I was always under the impression, when living in the UK, that the global financial markets of credit ./ debit card companies, Visa , Mastercard, American Express etc , where all united in fighting Credit Card/electronic around the world. But even when in the UK, running my own shop, I was also as equally shocked when USA , or some other EU nationals, would only be required to provide a signature and not a PIN.

Apparently this type of fraud is costing billions all over the world we are constantly being told in the UK. So, why is it so obviously not being dealt with, with as much zeal all over the world as is being implemented in the UK and presumably in one or two other countries as well (somewhere) or maybe not!!

I guess you havent seen the credit/debit cards that you just wave in front of a scanner for purchases below 200AUD. No signature required. Quite a few places in Oz have them.

[Pib]

This article just does not make sense even after reading it several times....it just seems to contradict itself throughout and seems backasswards. Me thinks the reporter who wrote the article needs to stick with using cash....and instead of reporting on financial issues, instead report on entertainment issues like TV soap show stars.

[lemoncake]

as long as some unscrupulous retailers charge 2-4 percent for using a card..even a debit card.. this is the way of the future. surely its not down to consumer education but retailer training

I think you will find some small businesses charge a fee because the banks charge them a fee so they have to pass it on - they do not (should not !) make a profit from it.

you are spot on, banks charge fees worldwide for credit card transactions, only in Thailand bank also charges some tax as well(sorry do not recall the tax name)

Bank fees are based on the business turn over, the higher the turnover the cheaper is the fee.

Hence why the big supermarkets do not charge for credit card use because they get a really cheap rate, while small operators pay on average 3%-5% per transaction and also pay premium for accepting platinum cards

[Rancid]

No real mystery here, banks love credit as due to the fiat money system they produce the debt out of thin air, costs them nothing and they charge interest on it. Baaaa. As an example lets look at the economy that has money valued at 1 billion dollars, people borrow 1 billion but have to repay 5% interest, so where is the 5% coming from when it already exceeds the total economy? Errh, money printing which then devalues everyones holdings by same 5%. Extreme example but think about it.

[ukrules]

I don't use my debit card in stores as they can be easily copied, cloned and used elsewhere by some fraudster.

This is the only reason why I only ever use my debit card at ATM machines.

[crazygreg44]

If the Thai banking system and Government are worried about this, they should ask the question, Why will most retailers and particularly small businesses NOT accept plastic transactions. Answer CASH IS KING here. no trace no tax to pay, simple !!

Big brother is just waiting to the point when every farmer finally holds a credit card or can pay by mobile phone NFC.

Then money bills will be abolished throughout the World.

It is a dream No.1 of bureaucrats of all governments to stop money going around unnoticed.

The more debit & credit cards are fluctuating, the higher the risk of "real" money getting abolished.

Some in this forum will say, that this is a far ahead and only a dream, or paranoid.

Just loved to gave ya a wake-up call . . .

[MEL1]

If the Thai banking system and Government are worried about this, they should ask the question, Why will most retailers and particularly small businesses NOT accept plastic transactions. Answer CASH IS KING here. no trace no tax to pay, simple !!

BIB love cash!

They use their cash cards daily, in bundles.

-mel.

[RubbaJohnny]

Simple allow competition from foreign banks

Edited December 26, 2012 by RubbaJohnny

[Johpa]

The article makes perfect sense from the bankers perspective. Banks make a small amount on fees when using a debit card for a retail purchase of goods or services. They make even more money, far more money, on fees when you use a credit card. They often make little or no money for a cash withdrawal using a debit card although they have saved some money by your not using a teller at the bank itself. So yes, if the purpose of the debit card is to make a small amount on many small transactions and the populace is instead using the debit card to withdraw cash and pay for those transactions with cash, then from the banker's perspective the behavior of the masses needs to change to a more profitable behavior.

[Unwisemonkey]

Most of you aren't reading between the lines.

They say, that the spending via debit cards is mostly through cash withdrawals. 2.35Trillion worth.

Banks make roughly 2% off debit card purchases - that's their "transaction processing fee" to the vendor (small vendors cannot negotiate their fees down to 2%, many are paying 4% or more). 2% of 2.35Trillion is 47 BILLION baht.

So, they want to 'educate' people to use their debit cards in-store rather than withdrawing cash and paying with that, because they're 'losing' at least 47 Billion baht in pure profit.

Nothing to see here other than the bankers' increasingly frantic cash grabbing. Banking, biggest legalised fraud ever.

As for the posters moaning about 'unscrupulous' vendors passing this extortion of their profits on to customers that use cards - wake up.

Agreed, I've yet to meet a Thai that doesn't understand when they are getting fleeced for cash by the banks. This is why they have multiple accounts at different banks. Even the company you may work for requires you to hold an account at a specific bank so they can avoid deposit fees. As an American I am used to getting so much of my banking for free. But charging for deposits is just slimy and greedy. I was appalled by the banking practices here when I first arrived. They charge so much that they are actually hurting the prosperity of Thai's because they have to hold multiple accounts to do transactions and cannot keep their monies in one interest bearing account.

[dighambara]

I'm a bit confused about the article referring to debit card withdrawals as "cash advances" which I consider and altogether different thing.

It's hardly a wonder that Thais prefer credit cards to debit as every day they are bombarded with credit card promotions from retailers encouraging their use. As for debit card use, I've been in fairly large stores that said cash only or would only take it if the purchase was at least 250 baht. This is no doubt due to the fees imposed on the retailer. And of course the average Thai buying food, clothing and other items from small vendors and street stalls is going to need cash on hand. Since most banks only allow a few free debit card ATM withdrawals before tacking on a fee it would make sense they would withdraw larger amounts each time.

Another thing that baffles me here is that the debit cards are standard issue...no name or real security features. All you get is a PIN number as you would with an ATM card. The only time the pin is used is at the ATM. Every time I plunk my debit card down to buy something and then sign the receipt all I can think about is that I know that I just used my own card and signed my own name but they don't. I could have walked in with someone else's card or them mine and no one would be the wiser. Back home all debit transactions required the use of your pin.

Yes, must agree wholeheartedly with all said here, It was a real shock for me when i realised anyone could walk into any Big C / Lotus etc and buy themselves anything they want, up to the limit of my Atm/debit card, as non of the bank tellers even bothered to compare the signatures on the till slip and the back of the card.

I was always under the impression, when living in the UK, that the global financial markets of credit ./ debit card companies, Visa , Mastercard, American Express etc , where all united in fighting Credit Card/electronic around the world. But even when in the UK, running my own shop, I was also as equally shocked when USA , or some other EU nationals, would only be required to provide a signature and not a PIN.

Apparently this type of fraud is costing billions all over the world we are constantly being told in the UK. So, why is it so obviously not being dealt with, with as much zeal all over the world as is being implemented in the UK and presumably in one or two other countries as well (somewhere) or maybe not!!

A PIN number was always required for debit or credit card purchases in the US - no fees charged for survival requirements i.e. Groceries...

[ableguy]

I'm a bit confused about the article referring to debit card withdrawals as "cash advances" which I consider and altogether different thing.

It's hardly a wonder that Thais prefer credit cards to debit as every day they are bombarded with credit card promotions from retailers encouraging their use. As for debit card use, I've been in fairly large stores that said cash only or would only take it if the purchase was at least 250 baht. This is no doubt due to the fees imposed on the retailer. And of course the average Thai buying food, clothing and other items from small vendors and street stalls is going to need cash on hand. Since most banks only allow a few free debit card ATM withdrawals before tacking on a fee it would make sense they would withdraw larger amounts each time.

Another thing that baffles me here is that the debit cards are standard issue...no name or real security features. All you get is a PIN number as you would with an ATM card. The only time the pin is used is at the ATM. Every time I plunk my debit card down to buy something and then sign the receipt all I can think about is that I know that I just used my own card and signed my own name but they don't. I could have walked in with someone else's card or them mine and no one would be the wiser. Back home all debit transactions required the use of your pin.

100% CORRECT

[sushi5734]

I think a lot of people are very wary of using cards to pay because absolutely nowhere checks the signatures for a debit or credit card purchase, most places give you the card back at the same time as they give you the slip to sign!!! I don't know if it's a case of not wanting to appear to question the customer and make them lose face or just laziness but it's just not done here at all!! Thailand has big problems with card fraud maybe if they did something about that, people would use cards to pay for more transactions.

[stoli]

I am glad to see that retailers are now adding a surcharge for using a credit card. American Express, Visa, and others, can change the rate charged to the retailer at will. When they decide to give the customer a 3% cash back for gasoline purchases, for example, these credit card companies don't do it out of their own pocket, thay just deduct it from what they owe the retailer. They make their marketing decisions, and charge you for them, without any input from you. They think they are buddha.

[MobileContent]

This article is totally rubbish and coming from the BOT makes me worried, However no name was quoted in the report so their might be a possibility that the Nation got it wrong once again.

I walked in a gold-shop last week and wanted to pay by a Krungsri Debit card but the gold-shop owner who has known me for a while, told me CASH ONLY so I negotiated 600 Baht down for the jewelry item.

Tesco was down last week and I couldn't pay with my Krungsri card. My K-Bank debit card doesn't work with Tops in Udon Thani, so its either Krungsri or cash.

I am very careful where I use the debit card here in Thailand. Paying cash is the way to go for me.

[schnazzy]

as long as some unscrupulous retailers charge 2-4 percent for using a card..even a debit card.. this is the way of the future. surely its not down to consumer education but retailer training

unscrupulous? the credit card companies charge 1-4% in charges for a card run under the logo and about 20-100b for a DEBIT transaction (with pin). while it is against both Visa and MC policies to surcharge credit cards, you can offer a cash discount. so why should I have to take a 2% hit just cause you want to used the visa logo on your debit card (if I am a retailer), drag your lazy arse to the ATM and get me cash! Also, cash is better in that, with a card (even some debit cards), the consumer has extra protection and sometimes including being able to return merchandise. Cash is based on posted policies in the store. 1 of 10 places I go take a card. Soon, it will probably be 1/5 but most girls I know don't even have a logo'd atm card. (aka debit card)

[Andre0720]

All the banks need to do is introduce a 150 Baht charge for every ATM debit card withdrawal. That'll make people think twice about trying to get hold of their own money. Of course, there'd be massive complaints about so unfair a practice.

For every ATM cash withdrawal, my bank at home charges me the equivalent of 150 bahts fee, and the Thai bank already does the same. So 300 bahts each cash withdrawal.

I now try to withdraw a larger amount each time, up to 30,000 bahts depending on the limitatiosn of the banks involved.

[noob7]

All the banks need to do is introduce a 150 Baht charge for every ATM debit card withdrawal. That'll make people think twice about trying to get hold of their own money. Of course, there'd be massive complaints about so unfair a practice.

For every ATM cash withdrawal, my bank at home charges me the equivalent of 150 bahts fee, and the Thai bank already does the same. So 300 bahts each cash withdrawal.

I now try to withdraw a larger amount each time, up to 30,000 bahts depending on the limitatiosn of the banks involved.

There are other options:

http://www.moneysavi...ap-travel-money

Get yourself a fee-free CC. Only 150 Baht Thai-ATM fee, no bank fees

Edited December 27, 2012 by noob7

[Sydebolle]

Well, it is a terminology issue. A debit card in Thailand is also called a "ATM" card, whereas a Credit Card is a credit card. In my case both apply. The ATM card has ONLY cash withdrawals, the Credit Card only such purchases. Difference? ATM = immediate debit if there is money in the account, no benefits otherwise. CC = billed next month and every 20 Baht clock one airline mile. Latter allows me to fly to Europe on a mileage ticket.

And if both used wisely then it is ideal, just never pay your CC just one day late because that's when they take you to the proverbial cleaners.

[fvw53]

Snip/

Another thing that baffles me here is that the debit cards are standard issue...no name or real security features. All you get is a PIN number as you would with an ATM card. The only time the pin is used is at the ATM. Every time I plunk my debit card down to buy something and then sign the receipt all I can think about is that I know that I just used my own card and signed my own name but they don't. I could have walked in with someone else's card or them mine and no one would be the wiser. Back home all debit transactions required the use of your pin.

What you are referring to is what they are calling ATM cards in the article. These are stock cards without your name on them. You can use them as debit cards in some retailers inside Thailand, but not overseas and not on the internet, their main purpose is as ATM cards (hence the reason 80% was in cash withdrawals, the rest purchases). Thai banks also offer real debit cards, mine is Visa with my name on it, and it is accepted worldwide.

Snip/

Another thing that baffles me here is that the debit cards are standard issue...no name or real security features. All you get is a PIN number as you would with an ATM card. The only time the pin is used is at the ATM. Every time I plunk my debit card down to buy something and then sign the receipt all I can think about is that I know that I just used my own card and signed my own name but they don't. I could have walked in with someone else's card or them mine and no one would be the wiser. Back home all debit transactions required the use of your pin.

What you are referring to is what they are calling ATM cards in the article. These are stock cards without your name on them. You can use them as debit cards in some retailers inside Thailand, but not overseas and not on the internet, their main purpose is as ATM cards (hence the reason 80% was in cash withdrawals, the rest purchases). Thai banks also offer real debit cards, mine is Visa with my name on it, and it is accepted worldwide.

Can you provide the name of the bank offering "real debit cards" such as VISA with your name on it?

[hellodolly]

as long as some unscrupulous retailers charge 2-4 percent for using a card..even a debit card.. this is the way of the future. surely its not down to consumer education but retailer training

It is my understanding that businesses that except debit cards have to pay 2 to 3 % to the banks for them.

Quite frankly it all confuses me. In Canada I have a debit card I use and every time I use it I have to put my pin number in and the money is taken out of my account. With the same bank I have a Visa account and when I use it money is paid by the Visa company but I have to pay it back.

What is an ATM card?