Thai Foreign Minister Expresses Concern Over I C J Verdict: Preah Viharn

[webfact]

PREAH VIHEAR CONTROVERSY

FM expresses concern over ICJ verdict

File photo : Preah Vihear Temple

BANGKOK: -- Foreign Minister Surapong Tohvichakchaikul on Wednesday expressed deep concern about the verdict of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) concerning the Thai-Cambodian dispute over the Preah Viharn temple, saying that were it not in favour of the Thai side, it could lead to undesirable action by Thai people.

"Every country has to accept the ICJ's decision. Refusal to accept it may put Thailand in a difficult position in the world arena. It is necessary to explain to the Thai people what the previous government did that led Cambodia to bring the dispute to the ICJ," Surapong said.

It is unclear why the Foreign Minister has chosen to mention the controversy now. Both the Thai and Cambodian governments will be giving their final verbal statements to the court between April 15-19, and the ICJ, which is also known as World Court, will take at least six months before pronouncing its verdict.

Surapong said the government's consultant team on international law is in the process of preparing Thailand's preliminary stance, which will be submitted to the cabinet for approval before being given as an official statement at the ICJ hearings in April.

A team of legal experts, which includes members of the Council of State, is scheduled to discuss details of the final statement next month. The legal team is led by Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana.

Surapong said he would join next month's meeting of legal experts to acknowledge the final statement but will not join the Thai team appearing before the ICJ in April.

The Court earlier ordered Thailand and Cambodia to withdraw their military personnel from the Provisional Demilitarised Zone (PDZ) surrounding Preah Viharn temple and allow Asean observers to access the zone to monitor the ceasefire.

Surapong said the Thai-Cambodian Joint Working Group met for the third time from December 17-19, complying with the Court's order, and agreed to determine four areas in the demilitarised zone to get ready for demining them by the end of March.

He said the foreign ministry would continuously inform the Thai people on the conflict this year while officials from the Treaties and Legal Affairs Department would explain the issue to provincial governors nationwide so that they also relay the facts to the people.

"When both countries become part of the Asean Economic Community, the borderline is almost meaningless. There should not be clashes on the border as the two countries are neighbours," he said.

Expressing his grave concern on the outcome of the dispute, Surapong said, "We have to accept the decision. Some people will not understand it though."

The conflict, which has seen fighting on the border between Thailand and Cambodia, erupted shortly after the Unesco approved Cambodia’s bid to have the Preah Viharn temple named a World Heritage Site on July 7, 2008.

-- The Nation 2013-01-02

[moe666]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

[angsta]

The ever reliable Nation strikes again.

My guess is the vast majority of the population had no interest in this until someone started rattling his nationalistic saber a few years back. Isn't this the area where the Thai army slaughtered loads of Cambodian refuges whilst they simultaneously let Pol Pot take refuge? For the Thai's the less said about this the better.

[Bluespunk]

Maybe the govt feels they have lost the argument over the land and are preparing themselves for a climb down. Or they are trying to put pressure ( or appear to be doing so for home consumption) on the court. Dont want to give PAD a stick to beat PT with. None the less I've a feeling the yellow fascists will start crawling out of the woodwork if Thailand loses the case. Great!!

Edited January 2, 2013 by Bluespunk

[billd766]

In the other paper Foreign Minister Surapong Tohvichakchaikul asked the press not to politicise the resulys of the judgement then went on to say

"Every country has to accept the ICJ's decision. Refusal to accept it may put Thailand in a difficult position in the world arena. It is necessary to explain to the Thai people what the previous government did that led Cambodia to bring the dispute to the ICJ".

He said the foreign ministry would continuously inform the Thai people on the conflict this year while officials from the Treaties and Legal Affairs Department would explain the issue to provincial governors nationwide so that they also relay the facts to the people. (PTP style).

And if that isn't blatant politicism then I'm your Dutch uncle (sorry uncle Rubi).

[EyesWideOpen]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Edited January 2, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[Buchholz]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

and do so overtly...

Thaksin, the OP's Thai Foreign Minister and Thaksin cousin Surapong, Hun Sen

[smutcakes]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

and do so overtly...

Thaksin, the OP's Thai Foreign Minister and Thaksin cousin Surapong, Hun Sen

Well thats the proof everyone needed. You know you can search Abhisit and Hun Sen and get an equally smiling photo of them shaking hands together.

What did Thaksin agree/do with Hun Sen to cause the problem last time?

[EyesWideOpen]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

and do so overtly...

Thaksin, the OP's Thai Foreign Minister and Thaksin cousin Surapong, Hun Sen

I like this photo. With a little imagination and a good sense of history, you can almost see the blood on both their hands.......

It does seem a bit odd that with Abhisit as PM there was endless trouble at this temple. Once Yingluck was PM all the troubles

seemed to just disappear . Must be a coincidence......

[kimamey]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

I doubt that what the previous government did or didn't do would make any difference to the ICJ.

[bigbamboo]

When are Thai politicians going to learn that when you choose to go to court and you lose then that's it.

[ramrod711]

Maybe the govt feels they have lost the argument over the land and are preparing themselves for a climb down. Or they are trying to put pressure ( or appear to be doing so for home consumption) on the court. Dont want to give PAD a stick to beat PT with. None the less I've a feeling the yellow fascists will start crawling out of the woodwork if Thailand loses the case. Great!!

Yellow fascists? Maybe red terrorist/arsonists will cause trouble, it isn't like they haven't done it before. Would you like to see video.....for the 100th time?

[NCFC]

The ever reliable Nation strikes again.

My guess is the vast majority of the population had no interest in this until someone started rattling his nationalistic saber a few years back. Isn't this the area where the Thai army slaughtered loads of Cambodian refuges whilst they simultaneously let Pol Pot take refuge? For the Thai's the less said about this the better.

During Abhisit's tenure the Thai FM was Kasit, a known supporter of PAD. He was quite happy to allow yellow shirts to stir up trouble at the Cambodian temple site, even to the point where yellow shirt radicals invaded Cambodian sovereign territory and were promptly arrested by the Cambodians for their fooliness.

I believe the ring leader is still doing time in a Cambodian prison?

Since Yingluck became PM the policy has been to negotiate with the Cambodians over the dispute and allow the ICJ to make a ruling o0ver temple and the surrounding land.

I think most people will agree that talking over the issue is a better approach than dropping shells on each other. At least no one gets killed this way.

[whybother]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

[NCFC]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

I would ask myself why did I allow my neighbour to build a temple on my property?

[whybother]

During Abhisit's tenure the Thai FM was Kasit, a known supporter of PAD. He was quite happy to allow yellow shirts to stir up trouble at the Cambodian temple site, even to the point where yellow shirt radicals invaded Cambodian sovereign territory and were promptly arrested by the Cambodians for their fooliness.

I believe the ring leader is still doing time in a Cambodian prison?

Since Yingluck became PM the policy has been to negotiate with the Cambodians over the dispute and allow the ICJ to make a ruling o0ver temple and the surrounding land.

I think most people will agree that talking over the issue is a better approach than dropping shells on each other. At least no one gets killed this way.

"invaded"

Kasit WAS a PAD supporter, but he had denounced them before this temple stuff blew up AGAIN.

Do you think that people shouldn't be allowed to protest? Or is it only OK to protest if it's something you agree with?

[whybother]

I would ask myself why did I allow my neighbour to build a temple on my property?

This isn't about the temple. The temple has already been declared as Cambodian, and the Thais have (grudgingly) accepted that.

[Thai at Heart]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

Indeed, the border line is a nonsense, but, its been judged decided and accidentally or intentionally accepted by Thailand.

That's life........

[bigbamboo]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

As you say taking the natural watershed which is what happens in most border demarcations the land should belong to Thialand.

Unfortunately sloppy work by the Thais allowed the Cambodians to win the judgement decades ago.

But everything would still be cushty if the UN hadn't designated it a world heritage site.

[NCFC]

During Abhisit's tenure the Thai FM was Kasit, a known supporter of PAD. He was quite happy to allow yellow shirts to stir up trouble at the Cambodian temple site, even to the point where yellow shirt radicals invaded Cambodian sovereign territory and were promptly arrested by the Cambodians for their fooliness.

I believe the ring leader is still doing time in a Cambodian prison?

Since Yingluck became PM the policy has been to negotiate with the Cambodians over the dispute and allow the ICJ to make a ruling o0ver temple and the surrounding land.

I think most people will agree that talking over the issue is a better approach than dropping shells on each other. At least no one gets killed this way.

"invaded"

Kasit WAS a PAD supporter, but he had denounced them before this temple stuff blew up AGAIN.

Do you think that people shouldn't be allowed to protest? Or is it only OK to protest if it's something you agree with?

It's how you protest that counts.

Abhisit was happy enough to shell the Cambodian temple and surrounding lands, killing people in the process. Fortunately that has stopped under Yingluck's government and the matter is under international arbitration, and no one is getting killed or injured. Isn't this an improvement?

[whybother]

Indeed, the border line is a nonsense, but, its been judged decided and accidentally or intentionally accepted by Thailand.

That's life........

Only part of it has been judged. The area they are currently fighting over hasn't been.

[whybother]

It's how you protest that counts.

Abhisit was happy enough to shell the Cambodian temple and surrounding lands, killing people in the process. Fortunately that has stopped under Yingluck's government and the matter is under international arbitration, and no one is getting killed or injured. Isn't this an improvement?

It takes two to tango. The Cambodians lied about having troops in the temple grounds. The Cambodians also shelled Thailand (can't remember what deaths / injuries there were).

The fighting stopped before Yingluck was elected.

[Ricardo]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Or perhaps Thailand should also try to reclaim the Shan States, much of which was handed to the Thai puppet-government by the Japanese, or the small part of Laos which was also annexed during WW2 ?

The bottom-line is that borders have been flexible for hundreds of years in this part of the world. Thailand has to accept that, sometimes at least, the locals don't necessarily want to be Thai. There is no loss-of-face if a local plebiscite were to show that this temple area, or certain Southern-states or indeed other border-areas, want to be part of another country.

But I doubt that any Thai government can actually accept this POV and, far from PTP & PM-Yingluck having already solved this problem with Cambodia, these local difficulties will rumble onwards with regrettable continuing loss-of-life.

[Buchholz]

The ever reliable Nation strikes again.

My guess is the vast majority of the population had no interest in this until someone started rattling his nationalistic saber a few years back. Isn't this the area where the Thai army slaughtered loads of Cambodian refuges whilst they simultaneously let Pol Pot take refuge? For the Thai's the less said about this the better.

During Abhisit's tenure the Thai FM was Kasit, a known supporter of PAD. He was quite happy to allow yellow shirts to stir up trouble at the Cambodian temple site, even to the point where yellow shirt radicals invaded Cambodian sovereign territory and were promptly arrested by the Cambodians for their fooliness.

I believe the ring leader is still doing time in a Cambodian prison?

Since Yingluck became PM the policy has been to negotiate with the Cambodians over the dispute and allow the ICJ to make a ruling o0ver temple and the surrounding land.

Ring leader?

Reality = an old man and a thin middle-aged woman....

radicals invaded?

Reality = a small group walked over a poorly delineated scrub land border.... for which 2 were ridiculously convicted of "espionage on a military installation" (of which there is none) and illegal border crossing.

But at least by the Cousin Foreign Minister words in the OP:

"When both countries become part of the Asean Economic Community, the borderline is almost meaningless."

they should then have at least one their trumped up charges dropped.

[Buchholz]

During Abhisit's tenure the Thai FM was Kasit, a known supporter of PAD. He was quite happy to allow yellow shirts to stir up trouble at the Cambodian temple site, even to the point where yellow shirt radicals invaded Cambodian sovereign territory and were promptly arrested by the Cambodians for their fooliness.

I believe the ring leader is still doing time in a Cambodian prison?

Since Yingluck became PM the policy has been to negotiate with the Cambodians over the dispute and allow the ICJ to make a ruling o0ver temple and the surrounding land.

I think most people will agree that talking over the issue is a better approach than dropping shells on each other. At least no one gets killed this way.

"invaded"

Kasit WAS a PAD supporter, but he had denounced them before this temple stuff blew up AGAIN.

Do you think that people shouldn't be allowed to protest? Or is it only OK to protest if it's something you agree with?

It's how you protest that counts.

Abhisit was happy enough to shell the Cambodian temple and surrounding lands, killing people in the process. Fortunately that has stopped under Yingluck's government and the matter is under international arbitration, and no one is getting killed or injured. Isn't this an improvement?

more liberty with reality...

bombing was often initiated by Thaksin's .... err... Hun Sen's side....

People in glass houses shouldn't fire rockets into civilian villages...

A house burns in a Thai village near a 11th-century Preah Vihear temple at the border between Thailand and Cambodia February 4, 2011.

[geriatrickid]

It is absolute madness to accuse Thaksin of being the cause of this dispute. Abhisit and his crew misjudged the boldness of the PAD nationalists that sought to provoke Cambodia. I suggest that what he thought would be nice rallying point for the nation to get behind his unpopular government, quickly got away from him. Nothing like a violent confrontation wth a defined enemy to unite the nation. The problem is that the local Thais had no ethnic hatred to their Cambodian brothers and sisters. The Bangkok elite brain trust miscalculated.

[whybother]

It is absolute madness to accuse Thaksin of being the cause of this dispute. Abhisit and his crew misjudged the boldness of the PAD nationalists that sought to provoke Cambodia. I suggest that what he thought would be nice rallying point for the nation to get behind his unpopular government, quickly got away from him. Nothing like a violent confrontation wth a defined enemy to unite the nation. The problem is that the local Thais had no ethnic hatred to their Cambodian brothers and sisters. The Bangkok elite brain trust miscalculated.

It's also madness to blame Abhisit for this dispute given the decades that it's been going on.

[Bluespunk]

Maybe the govt feels they have lost the argument over the land and are preparing themselves for a climb down. Or they are trying to put pressure ( or appear to be doing so for home consumption) on the court. Dont want to give PAD a stick to beat PT with. None the less I've a feeling the yellow fascists will start crawling out of the woodwork if Thailand loses the case. Great!!

Yellow fascists? Maybe red terrorist/arsonists will cause trouble, it isn't like they haven't done it before. Would you like to see video.....for the 100th time?

i have no love for the red fascists either. The reds and the yellows both represent the worst in politics; intolerance, violence and contempt for any view that does not represent their world view.

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed, the border line is a nonsense, but, its been judged decided and accidentally or intentionally accepted by Thailand.

That's life........

Only part of it has been judged. The area they are currently fighting over hasn't been.

And how they left that tiny but undemarked, God only knows.

Its a crazy nonsense, but it would appear Cambodia is in the box seat over this issue.

[geriatrickid]

It is absolute madness to accuse Thaksin of being the cause of this dispute. Abhisit and his crew misjudged the boldness of the PAD nationalists that sought to provoke Cambodia. I suggest that what he thought would be nice rallying point for the nation to get behind his unpopular government, quickly got away from him. Nothing like a violent confrontation wth a defined enemy to unite the nation. The problem is that the local Thais had no ethnic hatred to their Cambodian brothers and sisters. The Bangkok elite brain trust miscalculated.

It's also madness to blame Abhisit for this dispute given the decades that it's been going on.

He's the one that misjudged the PAD nationalists. I offer that he thought he could use them for his own benefit.

Rather, I should say, his advisers thought it would work out and he did not nix the idea. It was the PAD facists that pushed the confrontation over the edge last time. until then the violence had been restrained.