Thailand Loses Top Rice Exporter Title

[otherstuff1957]

If there is a massive crop failure in India or China then Thailand will make out like a bandit. Otherwise, they will simply have to count on the strength of the Thai economy to bail them out of this mess!

Vietnam was quoted as the number two exporter not China, but having said that if a big country like India were to experience a crop failure, chances are even greater for a small country like Thailand. Similarly, I doubt a massive crop failure in Vietnam wouldn't also affect Thailand in some ways due to geographical proximity, but what we're talking about is purely theoretical and more likely government/trade policies will dictate the outcomes as to which party can dominate rice exports into the future.

China and India are the two biggest rice consumers as well as being among the top producers. If either country's crop failed they woulbe out in the international market buying every grain of rice they could.

However, I don't think that the odds of this happening are in Thailand's favor. When the government can no longer borrow money or if the Agro bank (which is financing this scheme) goes belly up, they will have no choice but to pass the costs on to us in the form of higher taxes (probably a VAT increase).

[hellodolly]

There is a lot of talk of PTP/Thaksin, etc. benefiting financially (as opposed to politically) from the rice pledging policy. Examples include; #2; "Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune..." #8; "just wait till the red snouts have finished feeding at the trough... the only "good health" you will have then will be the toasts around the Shinawatra Banquet table"

Could someone please backup these claims with some evidence please? I thought posts were meant to be backed up by links, facts, quotes, etc.

Were you asleep when the Dems brought all this up in Parliament including Arisman's wife being a major beneficiary?

No he was not asleep. He has a automatic helmet that closes his hearing down and shuts his eyes when ever some thing negative about his dear PT Red Shirts comes up.

I am surprised he is not blaming it on the coup.

[hellodolly]

It will be easy for Thailand to regain its #1 exporter position, all they have to do is accept whatever price they can get for their deteriorating stockpile. But there will be a downside, such as huge losses of government revenue, accusations of dumping and possible retaliation from other rice producers.

All of the above is true. The big question is how worthless are they going to let the rice get before they dump it. Or are they going to open up rice kitchens in the needier areas of Thailand,

My money says they will let it rot and discard it.

[LaoPo]

Cant get it, its all rotting in Thai warehouses, but for Aussie Jasmin, Sunrice Medium Grain Rice at Coles. 10KG for $15

Jasmine Rice Organic Australian 25kg = $153.45

That's not expensive but I was talking: "Thai Jasmine Pandan rice", not Australian rice but the Organic Australian Jasmine Rice seems absurd in price.

[Bluespunk]

In what company would any employee be able to make such stupid decisions that allowed the company to pay more for a product than they can sell it for, lose so much marketshare that they fell from number 1 to number 3 within 1 year, and still stuffed the warehouse with products with a limited shelf life?

Then make up "phantom" deals that they can't prove and then say they are going to do exactly the same thing next year?

To call the PTP clowns would be an insult to clowns everywhere.

You wont think they are clowns when they hand out 5 million ton of rice to the poor...just before the next election. Thaksin to clever for some farang

You mean the loss from the pledging scheme and the bribe to the poor all out of the tax payers pocket instead of last time when it was out of Thaksin's own pocket.

It is a governments job to alleviate the plight of the poor. It also destroys the cornerstone of the amaat.

Except that this scheme has not helped the poor. It is a colossal failure in that respect. The main beneficiaries are those riding the PT gravy train, AKA the new amaat.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Bluespunk

[Mosha]

They did say they would be back to #1 this year. Don't panic.

[Bluespunk]

They did say they would be back to #1 this year. Don't panic.

Ah PT, the party of so many words, so many promises, so many claims, so little action , so few positive results, so much bull faeces.

[edwinchester]

There is a lot of talk of PTP/Thaksin, etc. benefiting financially (as opposed to politically) from the rice pledging policy. Examples include; #2; "Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune..." #8; "just wait till the red snouts have finished feeding at the trough... the only "good health" you will have then will be the toasts around the Shinawatra Banquet table"

Could someone please backup these claims with some evidence please? I thought posts were meant to be backed up by links, facts, quotes, etc.

It has been widely reported that the rent charged on rice growing land increased markedly since the subsidy was announced, not an unexpected event as rent is based on ability to pay. Generous people might assume that PTP were too stupid to realise that this may happen, and that it would undermine their policy.

Less generous people might point out that Thaksin,Yingluk and many members of this government, own large areas of land which they rent to rice farmers, and if their rents have increased, they have directly benefitted from a policy of their own making. That conflict of interest may not have been obvious (to the intentionally obtuse), but was certainly apparent when the policy was extended despite its appalling lack of success in its stated aim - to raise the income of poor farmers.

Not declaring a Conflict, or recusing oneself from decision making, is a clear case of corruption in office.

Cost to rent per rai in wifeys village has leapt from 1000 bht per rai to 2000 the last couple of years. The general feeling by the landowners is that they are earning more so they pay more, simple as that.

Talking to the people who rent it is obvious they are disappointed as they say costs have risen considerably and they also have to wait weeks for the payout in some cases.

Income has gone up but nowhere near what was expected. One told me they earned 5% more than last year on the same land.

[AleG]

Leave it to the... ehhh.. faithful to argue that nearly doubling the price of a staple food is a great policy to help the poor.

Besides that, if it's meant to help the poor, why are large lawnowners and agribusiness corporations the main recipients of the subsidy? If it's to help the poor wouldn't it be easier to set a cap on single or family owned farms and a limit on the land area that would receive a subsidy? That would be a policy set to help the lower rungs of the ladder without shoveling mountains of money into those poor downtrodden rich landowners.

[smutcakes]

There is a lot of talk of PTP/Thaksin, etc. benefiting financially (as opposed to politically) from the rice pledging policy. Examples include; #2; "Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune..." #8; "just wait till the red snouts have finished feeding at the trough... the only "good health" you will have then will be the toasts around the Shinawatra Banquet table"

Could someone please backup these claims with some evidence please? I thought posts were meant to be backed up by links, facts, quotes, etc.

Were you asleep when the Dems brought all this up in Parliament including Arisman's wife being a major beneficiary?

So what the opposition party state, is now known as reliable evidence...... here was I thinking the opposition party MAY have a vested interest in overstating or embellishing some things.

I expect there is major corruption, but other than here say no one has actually provided any proper evidence of it.

#55 Ozmick

I am not sure on the grand scheme of things how much a few thousand rai rent of rice fields would really budge TS's bank balance that much! You are probably right in what you say, but I am pretty sure nearly every policy from the beginning of time in Thailand which revolves around land rents, motorway construction, new town construction, there will be politicians benefiting from selling or renting the land. I would also wager heavily for every PTP politician benefiting in the way you describe, there will also be land owned by politicians of other parties as well. It does not make it right, but it is what it is in Thailand, and has been forever.

[Ticketmaster]

The reason Thailand has fallen behind in rice exports is because of its refusal to change anything. Vietnam, with its "planned economy" has, at government insistence, constantly implemented new technology and farming methods to improve production efficiency. India has also improved production by employing technology and improving farming methods. The US has the highest rice production per acre in the world because of its use of technology.

Thailand and Thais have a traditional unwillingness to change anything and that is the reason it falls behind in this globally competitive world. I really worry about what will happen to Thailand when Asean takes effect and artificial labor and trade barriers are torn down.

Will you blame the next round of bad weather on Thaksin?

[AleG]

The reason Thailand has fallen behind in rice exports is because of its refusal to change anything. Vietnam, with its "planned economy" has, at government insistence, constantly implemented new technology and farming methods to improve production efficiency. India has also improved production by employing technology and improving farming methods. The US has the highest rice production per acre in the world because of its use of technology.

Thailand and Thais have a traditional unwillingness to change anything and that is the reason it falls behind in this globally competitive world. I really worry about what will happen to Thailand when Asean takes effect and artificial labor and trade barriers are torn down.

Will you blame the next round of bad weather on Thaksin?

That would make sense... if the falling was because Thailand has produced less this year. Instead it has increased production and they are running around like headless chicken trying to find were to warehouse the growing mountain of rice that they can't sell anywhere.

It was Thaksin's party idea to create this situation, why should the blame for it not be placed were it belongs?

[Ricardo]

The really big money surely lies in the offshore speculation in rice-futures, where little or no information is available, but hard knowledge of the former-leading-exporter's actual production/stored/export numbers, and advanced-warning of any turning-point when deteriorating-stocks will be dumped on the market, would be worth billions ?

Just who those speculators might be, and of their possible links to Thailand, is hard to prove.

But the potential-rewards available must make African-diamonds or coal-mining shares a side-show !

[waza]

It will be easy for Thailand to regain its #1 exporter position, all they have to do is accept whatever price they can get for their deteriorating stockpile. But there will be a downside, such as huge losses of government revenue, accusations of dumping and possible retaliation from other rice producers.

All of the above is true. The big question is how worthless are they going to let the rice get before they dump it. Or are they going to open up rice kitchens in the needier areas of Thailand,

My money says they will let it rot and discard it.

With the PTP onion subsidy scheme, a lesser know but similar scheme, the onions rotted in the warehouses loosing 20 million.

"According to the ministry's report, the government has already spent about Bt200 billion for the rice pledging scheme and Bt60 billion for subsidising rubber, cassava and red onions.

The government plans to continue the cassava pledging scheme in the upcoming harvest season, but it will not stock cassava as tapioca chips or starch any longer as they have not made much money for the government."

This woman is a cassava farmer protesting about the corruption in the cassava pledging scheme

Edited January 5, 2013 by waza

[DLock]

In what company would any employee be able to make such stupid decisions that allowed the company to pay more for a product than they can sell it for, lose so much marketshare that they fell from number 1 to number 3 within 1 year, and still stuffed the warehouse with products with a limited shelf life?

Then make up "phantom" deals that they can't prove and then say they are going to do exactly the same thing next year?

To call the PTP clowns would be an insult to clowns everywhere.

You wont think they are clowns when they hand out 5 million ton of rice to the poor...just before the next election. Thaksin to clever for some farang

Yes I will still think he's a clown.

He may give out bags of "past its use by date" rice to get votes, in lieu of envelopes, but the damage to Thailand is clearly evident to anyone with half a brain.

Wake up.

[Ricardo]

With the PTP onion subsidy scheme, a lesser know but similar scheme, the onions rotted in the warehouses loosing 20 million.

<snip for brevity>

IIRC there was a similar problem with dried-fruit some years ago, a later-government had to pay further, for the eventual dumping of the rotting mess, which TRT (or was it PPP ?) had purchased to maintain prices but then failed to sell or give away in-time. Perhaps someone else has a link ?

With a track-record like this, no wonder there are many who suspect that the current rice-scheme may go 'pear-shaped', damaging the reputation of Thai-rice long-term (if old stocks are released) or losing long-established export-markets through demanding too-high a price, as already appears to be the case !

And 'informed sources' (Thaksin in that Der Spiegel interview last September) clearly plan that the scam scheme will continue for years more.

Cue further trillion-baht borrowing, by the government, to finance it all !

[Rich teacher]

There is a lot of talk of PTP/Thaksin, etc. benefiting financially (as opposed to politically) from the rice pledging policy. Examples include; #2; "Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune..." #8; "just wait till the red snouts have finished feeding at the trough... the only "good health" you will have then will be the toasts around the Shinawatra Banquet table"

Could someone please backup these claims with some evidence please? I thought posts were meant to be backed up by links, facts, quotes, etc.

This has been widely reported here and in other news sources. Google is your friend. Try "Thailand rice policy corruption". Read a few articles and then get back to us.

I'll help you a bit:

http://thediplomat.com/2012/11/10/rice-piles-how-thailand-lost-its-spot-as-worlds-top-rice-exporter/

Back to you. None of these articles have any proof whatsoever of members of Peau Thai and/or Thaksin benefiting from the policy. Maybe you should read my original post and get back to me.

[smutcakes]

There is a lot of talk of PTP/Thaksin, etc. benefiting financially (as opposed to politically) from the rice pledging policy. Examples include; #2; "Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune..." #8; "just wait till the red snouts have finished feeding at the trough... the only "good health" you will have then will be the toasts around the Shinawatra Banquet table"

Could someone please backup these claims with some evidence please? I thought posts were meant to be backed up by links, facts, quotes, etc.

This has been widely reported here and in other news sources. Google is your friend. Try "Thailand rice policy corruption". Read a few articles and then get back to us.

I'll help you a bit:

http://www.thaivisa....cases-thailand/

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

http://www.thaivisa....thai-editorial/

http://thediplomat.c...-rice-exporter/

Back to you. None of these articles have any proof whatsoever of members of Peau Thai and/or Thaksin benefiting from the policy. Maybe you should read my original post and get back to me.

Rich in case you missed it, the Democrats stated it at the parliament debate.

[AleG]

The really big money surely lies in the offshore speculation in rice-futures, where little or no information is available, but hard knowledge of the former-leading-exporter's actual production/stored/export numbers, and advanced-warning of any turning-point when deteriorating-stocks will be dumped on the market, would be worth billions ?

Just who those speculators might be, and of their possible links to Thailand, is hard to prove.

But the potential-rewards available must make African-diamonds or coal-mining shares a side-show !

I wonder if that's one of the reasons for the complete lack of transparency on the Government to Government deals.

IIRC there was a similar problem with dried-fruit some years ago, a later-government had to pay further, for the eventual dumping of the rotting mess, which TRT (or was it PPP ?) had purchased to maintain prices but then failed to sell or give away in-time. Perhaps someone else has a link ?

With a track-record like this, no wonder there are many who suspect that the current rice-scheme may go 'pear-shaped', damaging the reputation of Thai-rice long-term (if old stocks are released) or losing long-established export-markets through demanding too-high a price, as already appears to be the case !

And 'informed sources' (Thaksin in that Der Spiegel interview last September) clearly plan that the scam scheme will continue for years more.

Cue further trillion-baht borrowing, by the government, to finance it all !

If?

Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development, Dr Akinwumi Adesina, has raised the alarm that some countries, particularly Thailand and India, are dumping rice that are as old as 15 years in the country.

[lovetotravel]

There is a lot of talk of PTP/Thaksin, etc. benefiting financially (as opposed to politically) from the rice pledging policy. Examples include; #2; "Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune..." #8; "just wait till the red snouts have finished feeding at the trough... the only "good health" you will have then will be the toasts around the Shinawatra Banquet table"

Could someone please backup these claims with some evidence please? I thought posts were meant to be backed up by links, facts, quotes, etc.

This has been widely reported here and in other news sources. Google is your friend. Try "Thailand rice policy corruption". Read a few articles and then get back to us.

I'll help you a bit:

http://www.thaivisa....cases-thailand/

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

http://www.thaivisa....thai-editorial/

http://thediplomat.c...-rice-exporter/

Back to you. None of these articles have any proof whatsoever of members of Peau Thai and/or Thaksin benefiting from the policy. Maybe you should read my original post and get back to me.

Read them all. Here's a few points made. Pretty clear what's going on:

Yingluck may survive the debate but she still has to clear doubts over alleged money laundering by a dummy company involved in the government's rice price subsidy policy.

The debate, however, reveals another serious flaw in the rice scheme: it has created the opportunity for massive corruption. It seems the majority of money spent has gone into the pockets of people with political connections.

This is not mention the fresh allegation over a dummy company involved in government-to-government contract sales of rice, which has yet to be answered.

Last week, the Senate Committee on Economics, Commerce and Industry, of which Dr. Vitthaya is vice-chairman, filed a damning report blaming the scheme over rampant corruption and a rising mountain of debt as big as the piles of unsold rice fill warehouses across Thailand. A populist policy that was part of the platform propelling the relative unknown Yingluck Shinawatra to power last May, the scheme now threatens to severely damage the government. Some say it could even bring the Prime Minister’s coalition down.

...

Critics also say that coalition politicians are taking kickbacks on contracts from the millers and exporters to whom they have chosen to sell quotas of rice overseas, all while many of the poorest farmers are seeing their prices reduced significantly by the time the money filters down the food chain, albeit while still earning more than before Yingluck Shinawatra took power.

[craigt3365]

A few trolling/baiting posts have been removed from view.

[Halion]

Very old news..and things will get far worse. Thank you Yingluck and Family

[Ticketmaster]

Thaksin must be some kind of a god or something if half the things attributed to him are true. One Thai woman told me he controlled the Internet.

[billd766]

In what company would any employee be able to make such stupid decisions that allowed the company to pay more for a product than they can sell it for, lose so much marketshare that they fell from number 1 to number 3 within 1 year, and still stuffed the warehouse with products with a limited shelf life?

Then make up "phantom" deals that they can't prove and then say they are going to do exactly the same thing next year?

To call the PTP clowns would be an insult to clowns everywhere.

Clowns are professionals and know their job.

PTP government?????????????

[alant]

Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune but it has caused Thailand and the PTP government a massive loss of face and the Thai treasury a massive financial loss so far. The bad news is, its not over yet. With another year of this bad policy to go, one wonders how the PTP will spin this to their advantage.

Lost me with the Thaksin bit is he a rice farmer? As he isn't in the country I am wondering about the benefit he gets? Help appreciated.

[AleG]

Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune but it has caused Thailand and the PTP government a massive loss of face and the Thai treasury a massive financial loss so far. The bad news is, its not over yet. With another year of this bad policy to go, one wonders how the PTP will spin this to their advantage.

Lost me with the Thaksin bit is he a rice farmer? As he isn't in the country I am wondering about the benefit he gets? Help appreciated.

Thaksin has a long and sordid history of using state power to enrich himself. I don't expect the man to have reformed himself for the better.

[rubl]

Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune but it has caused Thailand and the PTP government a massive loss of face and the Thai treasury a massive financial loss so far. The bad news is, its not over yet. With another year of this bad policy to go, one wonders how the PTP will spin this to their advantage.

Lost me with the Thaksin bit is he a rice farmer? As he isn't in the country I am wondering about the benefit he gets? Help appreciated.

""Thaksin said the previous government "spoiled" exporters by selling them cheap rice and called on them to become better at marketing."

"Sales to Indonesia, Iraq and Ivory Coast, as well as other countries in the Middle East and Africa, will keep reserves down, he said."

""I don't think we have much because we keep selling," he said, referring to the rice stockpile next year.""

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

[Soi Dog]

This whole argument completely misses the real point. The Democrats transferred cash to the farmers through the price insurance scheme and now PT is doing it through a pledging scheme. So the argument boils down to the amount and the mechanism (i.e. who scams the farmers). The real point which is totally missing here is how to make farmers more independent and in control of their own destiny. Cash transfer schemes, whether from the Dems or PT, just make the farmers dependent on handouts and don't give them the means to figure out for themselves a better way to make a living. It makes no sense for farmers in the Northeast with only a few rai to try to make a living growing one crop a year of low yielding rice. They can't. So who is working to help them figure out ways where they can be more productive and independent? Answer: Nobody. The status quo demands that they remain subservient to the people with the cash.

[lovetotravel]

Thaksin, the criminals rice pledging scheme may have netted him and his syncophants a fortune but it has caused Thailand and the PTP government a massive loss of face and the Thai treasury a massive financial loss so far. The bad news is, its not over yet. With another year of this bad policy to go, one wonders how the PTP will spin this to their advantage.

Lost me with the Thaksin bit is he a rice farmer? As he isn't in the country I am wondering about the benefit he gets? Help appreciated.

He basically won the election based on this scheme. The farmers (may) have a bit more money in their pockets, but higher up the ladder, they've made big money. These wealthy people are the ones that support him and his party. It's all about money. The more his supporters get, the more they support and vote for him. Not much different than anywhere else in the world...unfortunately.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Of the 6.9 million tons, some 1.7 million were registered as government-to-government deals, which the private-sector association has questioned.

"The only government-to-government deal we saw evidence of was a 300,000 shipment to Indonesia in early 2012," said Chookiat Phaswongse,

So if you ignored the "Little White Lie" to help the economy policy, and counted it as 300k and not 1.7 Million, where would Thailand stand then?

I don't know the answer, I am just curious where they really rank for Rice exports?