Coping With Sexism In Thailand

[sbk]

PWG = privileged white girl

(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pwg)

Err no. and I give up because there really is no point in trying to continue. Irrelevant. typical, thats all I can say and you know what? you wont' even get that either

[driedmango]

PS... I completely understand the women's rights movement was needed..

Now women make more in Canada , and women think that is great, most suicide is male. Most homeless male, most depression male.. And Some feminist love and charish it..

Women in the west dump men like old rags.. They expect the to be perfect... They start to age now from child bearing years.. And are mean to young men ..our boys are being raised by daycare.. Its a mess.

[Sheryl]

PS... I completely understand the women's rights movement was needed..

Now women make more in Canada , and women think that is great, most suicide is male. Most homeless male, most depression male.. And Some feminist love and charish it..

Women in the west dump men like old rags.. They expect the to be perfect... They start to age now from child bearing years.. And are mean to young men ..our boys are being raised by daycare.. Its a mess.

? the origin of his grievance ?............

[fletchsmile]

PWG = privileged white girl

(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pwg)

Err no. and I give up because there really is no point in trying to continue. Irrelevant. typical, thats all I can say and you know what? you wont' even get that either

You know SBK,

I agree with you on this, no point continuing. Every single post of yours and MacChine on here has had either a put down, an insult or similar.

There's not a single post from either of you to say OK how can we work together male and female to improve this. Every time something constructive is attempted another issue gets raised that is negative instead or raise another put down to guys. Sure some of my points come across as negative too, but that's what happens when people are continually negative - it provokes negative reactions. At least I tried to be positive and constructive sometimes.

I guess neither of you is every going to understand that some western guys want to actively contribute to removing sexism. We want to remove it for everyone, and work together. It's not easy and there will be differences on how to achieve that.

Yes and I got you messages:

"I'm a guy, I can never understand women. If I don't agree with a woman's point of view or way of doing things and it affects women I'm sexist. The fact I have 2 daughters and a wife I want a better life for them and want to pass on some values on equality is just naiive. I'm a PWG (whatever that is)..."

To OP,

If you're still around. Hope things have improved, and you've learned something in this thread to help. Your choices will affect your happiness, Be proactive and choose to be happy. A positive attitude even in tough situations will more likely draw people to support you, particularly in Thailand where people like sanuk and don't want to be involved in confrontation.

Thanks to Sheryl and Ave. (Boo too in her own LSP style sometimes

Gives me hope there are still some women around as role models of what's needed for the future instead of the past to work together. Particularly liked Sheryl's post about that the west had made some good progress, but it had often come at a price.

Cheers

Fletch

[sbk]

There is no insult from me. I Perahspyou consider someone disagreeing with you to be insulting but I can assure you there has been no insult from me. But I would like to point out to you that this is actually the Ladies Forum and not the Men Telling Women How It Is forum. If you have difficulty with that concept and consider any challenge to that as an insult then suggest you move on to a forum where you dont' consider any challenge an insult.

[Boo]

troll post removed, you have been advised already that if you don't like the ladies forum rules then stay away, the next post of the same ilk will result in a long suspension.

[Boo]

I'm very bored with bitter posters spouting their hate towards women on this forum & particularly the ladies section. We get it, boo ho, you don't like white women but get over yourself., We don't care. ok.

[Douggie Style]

My partner is a Thai/Western businesswoman and gets treated with utmost respect by both cultures...she makes it clear she can't be trifled with

there are many things you can't control like the local culture but you can set firm boundries and behave in manner that generates respect..and I'm not talking about the sexes but the basics like being polite and a good person, approriate dress for the forum, developing a strength of will

My partner often gets stared at by Chinese men, she simply out stares them, it is funny to see..

I still vividly remeber being ostracised by the local playgroup when I primarily cared for my little baby girl (all women who congregated on the other side and not one made any effort and yes I did try to talk with them and no had no other motives) ...in the end I just read a newspaper in the corner...nice people individually, as a group the behaviour was nasty..women are certainily experts at making one feel not wanted...anyways week after week I turned up and said hello politely...then went and twiddled my thumbs in the corner..there was no one to complain too as everyone would have laughed...so learned to zone out

i am glad for the experience as made me stronger, maybe this is your opportunity to become stronger..

Edited April 19, 2013 by Douggie Style

[wprime]

- Networking often occurs in male-only spaces such as hooker bars, Soi
Cowboy, Nana Plaza, golf trips, poker games, etc. I am not invited,
cutting me off from the benefits of this networking. Networking that I
am allowed to attend is mostly binge drinking and talking shit about
women. I'm mainly talking about informal, after hours networking, not
formal networking venues like Chamber of Commerce events.

Networking occurs in many other places, restaurants, markets, etc, hardly male centred. I suspect you work in a male dominated workplace and as such find it difficult to network with co-workers who prefer the places you suggested. If you're keen on networking I suggest you expand beyond your workplace.

- Managers (male expats) are free from gender discrimination laws and
routinely objectify female employees, Thai women on the street, etc.
They get in the personal space of female employees. This would be
considered sexual harassment in the West. They talk so much shit about
Thai women it's amazing.

This one sucks, nothing you can do about it though.

- I moved here with my long term male partner. Everyone likes to tell me
how I can't compete with a Thai woman and it is only a matter of time
before he leaves me for one. Or alternatively, they tell me that women
professionals don't last long in Asia and I should leave.

They're probably right, don't take it as an insult, but as a signal to try harder.

[MacChine]

Fletch smile

I disagree with your assessment of my arguments, I am not insulting you and my views in resolving sexism are stated. Pay women the same wages, and stop having their marital status announced and revolving around a male partner.

Others,,

I actually am not talking about changing the name, (but that too is a good example of how ingrained sexism is, and how accepting of it women are...)

but the real issue is that Miss or Mrs declares a marital status. Men do not have to declare their marital status.

Women's marital status is used in their titling, while men's are not.

Women's marital status us announced to the casual observer in use on their ID's etc.

Men's are not.

ThIs leads me to conclusions that women's marital status is not private, whereas male's status is and this is indicative of the importance female marital status is to her ID.

Is she sexually available, essentially - It is sexism in the extreme.

If she can " choose" her marital statue, it still does not change that she has to declare one.

Miss is unmarried. Mrs. is married. Where's the no status declared such as Mr. denotes?

Mr./ Ms. is the simple, fair and equitable option to denote gender, but this option is not available to women on Thai governmental forms - at least not to foreigners.

SBK..

Tick the Mr. box ?? Sure , but only on forums !! ( noting TV has only the Mr. Miss or Mrs. options.. )

Declaring Mr. on official forms is false information re gender.

When marrying, at least in UK, a woman has the choice to change her name or not, I beleive the same is in Thailand. My point is that every woman I know has wanted to change her name & has done so. Nothing sexist about it, it is entirely her choice.

I changed all my official documents when I married yet used my maiden name for work for 9 years after with never an issue. You'll have to take my word for this but there has never been a suggestion that I am owned or a subject to violence relating to my name.

The whole Miss, Ms, Mrs thing is an issue for some people obviously but I personally think there are bigger fish to fry. If I were that bothered by it though I would just forgo a title entirely or if asked, tick the MR box.

Regardless of whether you have kept your own name or taken your husband's last name, you still have the option of Ms as opposed to Mrs.

Most of my friends and acquaintances in farang-land kept their names after marriage. This may be because they are all professional women and usually had well established careers prior to marriage so it would have been problematic to do otherwise. A few hyphenated.

Personally I did take my (ex) husband's name for the very simple reason that it was a vast improvement over my maiden name, which was unpronouncable, and I was tired of having trouble figuring out when my name was being called, always having to spell it out, etc. I had no fondness for it and didn't view it as any more "mine" than my husband's last name since after all, it was my father's name, not something unique to me. Just the way i saw it. I married young and was not yet professionally established, so there was no downside to the change. After I divorced, I kept it and frankly in the long run it was probably one of the best things I got out of that marriage.

Edited April 30, 2013 by MacChine

[Sheryl]

Fletch smile

I disagree with your assessment of my arguments, I am not insulting you and my views in resolving sexism are stated. Pay women the same wages, and stop having their marital status announced and revolving around a male partner.

Others,,

I actually am not talking about changing the name, (but that too is a good example of how ingrained sexism is, and how accepting of it women are...)

but the real issue is that Miss or Mrs declares a marital status. Men do not have to declare their marital status.

Women's marital status is used in their titling, while men's are not.

Women's marital status us announced to the casual observer in use on their ID's etc.

Men's are not.

ThIs leads me to conclusions that women's marital status is not private, whereas male's status is and this is indicative of the importance female marital status is to her ID.

Is she sexually available, essentially - It is sexism in the extreme.

If she can " choose" her marital statue, it still does not change that she has to declare one.

Miss is unmarried. Mrs. is married. Where's the no status declared such as Mr. denotes?

Mr./ Ms. is the simple, fair and equitable option to denote gender, but this option is not available to women on Thai governmental forms - at least not to foreigners.

SBK..

Tick the Mr. box ?? Sure , but only on forums !! ( noting TV has only the Mr. Miss or Mrs. options.. )

Declaring Mr. on official forms is false information re gender.

/quote

As has been explained already in this thread, Thai women DO have the option of not revealing their marital status. Married women can use either nang or nangsao as they prefer, i.e. "nangsao" may be either a married or an unmarried woman.

It is true that many (but by no means all) English language forms in Thailand don't have a Ms option but I really wouldn't read too much into that. I think it has more to do with unfamiliarity with foreign customs than anything else. For that matter, many Thais call both men and women "Sir". (always reminds me of Peppermint Patty in Peanuts)

They simply don't know any better. It's not big deal and hardly worth bothering about. Lord only knows what equivalent faux pas you and I may be making in Thai...

Of all the issues in Thailand relating to women's rights this is hardly one I'd prioritize.

[MacChine]

My priority on the subject, in this discussion is to instigate thought in what women's roles are in Thailand. Usage of specific long customs on women's identities is really a basis for sexism.

(Just reading a bit on hereditary lineage through males now..)

I'll take it on your word, the Thai woman has her non status title, so where's mine?

I do think the Thai govt needs to be pressed on offering foreign women this choice- having had it all my life, it is offensive to be subjected to this pre 60's mentality, that Thailand remains so backward on simple titling.

Is it just inefficiency in English? My experiences with Govt departments and bureaus, yeah, maybe, so it can be changed with a little pressure. Or maybe not

I though they were being facetious when hey called me sir. I was even complimented, a little.

Edited April 30, 2013 by MacChine

[sbk]

Just curious if you speak any Thai? The language is different and the ways in which they use English is alot clearer if you speak the language.

[MacChine]

No I speak barely enough to not eat spicy food, and would not even try to read it as I'm referring to English written forms, for governmental forms like a visa, forms in English.

And sorry mixed up last response for Boo as to you.

I am looking at a an employee ID and the newer cards, the names are also are in English. She is Miss. When I inquired about this she said the choice is Miss or Mrs, so are they now adopting the western style of sexism?

Fletchsmile,

I also suggested that foreign women be given incentives to do business, ( which I still think is a great idea) so that was three suggestions to end sexism in Tland.

Please respond to your ... misjudgements.

[sbk]

You are assuming things about the translation that are not factual is my point. if you can't understand how the language works then you won't understand how they use Englsh.

[Sheryl]

You are assuming things about the translation that are not factual is my point. if you can't understand how the language works then you won't understand how they use Englsh.

+1

[MacChine]

Absolutely, my knowledge of passa Thai is almost non existent, however, my complaint is regarding myself as a foreigner, and government forms that are in English and meant for foreigners;

There is no choice for foreign women to NOT declare marital status on English language forms .

If male, Mr is your title

Female have to declare marital status as Miss unmarried, or Mrs. married.

Women must declare marital status, but men enjoy privacy. It's par for the course in sexualizing and labeling sexual availability of females in every aspect of their existence.

[Shoeboat]

I've lived here ten years and if there were no western women here I wouldn't be here. I've never really had a bad experience with a Thai woman and I generally like Thai people but have little to do with them simply because there's little common ground. Western women can be more challenging to date, but I love a challenge and I like to work for something.

As for the workplace, I've never heard of any discrimination towards women here but that's just me. I'm sure it still happens but I wouldn't let it bother you. There's always plenty here to moan about.

[Markaew]

And it took under half an hour, but Hedghog is a common example of men brushing off sexism as an issue. Hedghog, you aren't effected by sexism here, you don't have to deal with it, and if you have nothing else to do than defend it, you're part of the problem.

You have had the benefit of a culture that favored you and now you think countries should be the same. They aren't. Thai culture is controlled by THAI MEN. What did you expect? You should have done your homework before you came here.

[drnkurmlkshk]

Thai culture is controlled by THAI MEN

What about the prime minister?

[Jasun]

Thai culture is controlled by THAI MEN

What about the prime minister?

Trick question?

[mike123ca]

I suspect she is more interested in the rights of her older brother than the women of Thailand.

[MacChine]

I wish I could offer a solution for the OP.

Moving jobs would seem the sensible option to me.

I don't think there is a solution, so moving job would be the only way this could have a happy ending. I learned over many years that you just can't change that mindset, no matter what you do so don't don't waste your time trying.

I honestly think in another 2 or 3 generations it will be a thing of the past, but I really do think it will take that long.

I think we are going backwards, with help of popular media that demand women's value be sexual. It all got warped somehow, we lost the plot and got complacent which is why I get pissed that younger women have no clue what a feminist really is about.

[DraxNet]

I don't know if the OP is still around but I guess I'll add my perspective:

It's true to say that much of it is cultural and what appears to sexism to a westerner is cultural norm to a Thai. I employ about 200 Thai's and not a day goes by when I'm in one way or another amazed by what appears to me to be 'crossing the boundaries' of decency is perfectly normal to them (ie; judging potential job candidates not on merit, but their photo; both male and female) but I have to hold back because this is their country and unless one of my employees is upset by their behaviour I have to respect these boundairies.

My English wife is a teacher out here though and she can certainly empathise with you a great deal. Whilst not such a male dominated profession as yours, she comes from a senior management position in the UK and is used to be able to demonstrate ability an aptitude to be promoted, but often is overlooked or 'bypassed' because not only is she farang but a female farang. Her solution much like another poster is to preserver with kindness and not react emotionally. Rather than forcing integration she finds a way for them to be interested in her (usually via a new teaching method or a extra-curricular idea, and she always ensures she copies the school's director in on any new ideas/processes because they are not adverse to stealing her ideas). In terms of the lifestyle she had also had the same things said to her about me finding a Thai woman out here etc etc (sorry, but ain't gonna happen; Thai women just aren't curvy in the right places and the ones that are usually come with 'hidden extras') but she also has come to adore the relaxed attitude to life and the lack of regulation to everything. Sure, it's frustrating at times for both of us but at the same time not for one minute do either of us regret the move and certainly do not feel inclined to return to the UK. I hope you reach the same conclusion!

"No, I work here and my wife is English. I don't want a pingpong show and I'm *not* Russian."

[driedmango]

No I speak barely enough to not eat spicy food, and would not even try to read it as I'm referring to English written forms, for governmental forms like a visa, forms in English.

And sorry mixed up last response for Boo as to you.

I am looking at a an employee ID and the newer cards, the names are also are in English. She is Miss. When I inquired about this she said the choice is Miss or Mrs, so are they now adopting the western style of sexism?

Fletchsmile,

I also suggested that foreign women be given incentives to do business, ( which I still think is a great idea) so that was three suggestions to end sexism in Tland.

Please respond to your ... misjudgements.

The Gov of Thailand giving incentives to women only to make it easier to do business in Thailand ? They only have disincentives unless you have big $$ and want to open something that will make lots of jobs, and they don't care if your male or female..

You sure don't understand Thailand much, what ever you happen to have between your legs if your not Thai, you don't have much rights.. I for one completely understand they have kept alot of their pastures for themselves, and if everyone that wanted to move here and buy up a cheap guesthouse or streetfood stall did, Thai people would have trouble competing with your capital and our imposing of our way on them (like you are trying to say to do)

[oiuy1]

Hello, it's OP. I abandoned this thread a few days after I made it when I realized that I wasn't going to have a real discussion. Most of the content seems to have been generated by men protecting their privilege, men projecting their issues of women onto me and my situation, and people telling me that farang men aggressively devaluing me is part of the local culture so I should accept it. I just left and never logged back in because I got enough of that in face to face interactions. It seems like most of the Ladies Forum posts get hijacked by idiots on personal crusades. It's unfortunate for the people who do have real content to contribute, I feel sorry for the mods and posters who have to deal with it. On the plus side, if anyone tries to tell me that I'm imagining sexist attitudes, I only have to point them to this thread (or most threads) to hear men repeat everything I've heard in an office and more. I'm being totally honest when I say Thailand's given me new empathy for women from previous generations.

Thanks to some of the women and men who posted empathetic advice. I left the company several months ago, as it obviously wasn't a professional work environment. I was newer to Thailand and needed to keep my work permit active while I found something better. I just felt alone and attacked. I've found some good contacts with women in the professional sphere here, so I've had outlets to discuss this. Since then I've found a better work situation with higher quality standards. Also, my boyfriend hasn't left me and I am still working in Asia. Last point I'd like to make is that when I got to know all of my female coworkers much better, I learned they hated the environment as much as I did. They just didn't speak up to defend themselves. I on the other hand did defend myself and I set clear boundaries, but the environment didn't improve. By the time I had quit, all of them had left the company and the CEO had no idea why he had such a problem holding onto staff. I'd like to see someone try to mansplain that.

Sexism is a problem in Thailand, both for Thai and farang women. I wish we could have a more constructive dialogue about it, but Thaivisa just isn't the place.

[Sheryl]

Hello, it's OP. I abandoned this thread a few days after I made it when I realized that I wasn't going to have a real discussion. Most of the content seems to have been generated by men protecting their privilege, men projecting their issues of women onto me and my situation, and people telling me that farang men aggressively devaluing me is part of the local culture so I should accept it. I just left and never logged back in because I got enough of that in face to face interactions. It seems like most of the Ladies Forum posts get hijacked by idiots on personal crusades. It's unfortunate for the people who do have real content to contribute, I feel sorry for the mods and posters who have to deal with it. On the plus side, if anyone tries to tell me that I'm imagining sexist attitudes, I only have to point them to this thread (or most threads) to hear men repeat everything I've heard in an office and more. I'm being totally honest when I say Thailand's given me new empathy for women from previous generations.

Thanks to some of the women and men who posted empathetic advice. I left the company several months ago, as it obviously wasn't a professional work environment. I was newer to Thailand and needed to keep my work permit active while I found something better. I just felt alone and attacked. I've found some good contacts with women in the professional sphere here, so I've had outlets to discuss this. Since then I've found a better work situation with higher quality standards. Also, my boyfriend hasn't left me and I am still working in Asia. Last point I'd like to make is that when I got to know all of my female coworkers much better, I learned they hated the environment as much as I did. They just didn't speak up to defend themselves. I on the other hand did defend myself and I set clear boundaries, but the environment didn't improve. By the time I had quit, all of them had left the company and the CEO had no idea why he had such a problem holding onto staff. I'd like to see someone try to mansplain that.

Sexism is a problem in Thailand, both for Thai and farang women. I wish we could have a more constructive dialogue about it, but Thaivisa just isn't the place.

Thanks for thr feedback, and glad to hear that things have sorted out for you.

ThaiVisa mods and admin would like to make TV a forum where women could post without harrassment and constructive dialogues be held, and we are working on it. readers and posters could help by promptly hitting the "report" button whenever anything inappropriate or sexist is posted, especially here in the Ladies' Forum.

[Boo]

Agree with Sheryl, instead of replying to the trolls just report, once that happens more mods are able to act in a much quicker fashion

We are working on possibly having a one strike & you are out policy but it takes time with technological constraints so in the meantime, work with us to make this a much nicer place to post in.

thanks

[MacChine]

Isn't that exactly the type of special consideration men complain of?

I say let them have their whine, just scroll past it. We're big girls, aren't we? I enjoy the challenge dialogue in an extreme manner, frankly and to exclude by changing rules in one forum only, to keep opinions out, specifically male opinions.... well heck, that's sexist too!!

Agree with Sheryl, instead of replying to the trolls just report, once that happens more mods are able to act in a much quicker fashion

We are working on possibly having a one strike & you are out policy but it takes time with technological constraints so in the meantime, work with us to make this a much nicer place to post in.

thanks

[manarak]

Hello, it's OP. I abandoned this thread a few days after I made it when I realized that I wasn't going to have a real discussion. Most of the content seems to have been generated by men protecting their privilege, men projecting their issues of women onto me and my situation, and people telling me that farang men aggressively devaluing me is part of the local culture so I should accept it. I just left and never logged back in because I got enough of that in face to face interactions. It seems like most of the Ladies Forum posts get hijacked by idiots on personal crusades. It's unfortunate for the people who do have real content to contribute, I feel sorry for the mods and posters who have to deal with it. On the plus side, if anyone tries to tell me that I'm imagining sexist attitudes, I only have to point them to this thread (or most threads) to hear men repeat everything I've heard in an office and more. I'm being totally honest when I say Thailand's given me new empathy for women from previous generations.

Thanks to some of the women and men who posted empathetic advice. I left the company several months ago, as it obviously wasn't a professional work environment. I was newer to Thailand and needed to keep my work permit active while I found something better. I just felt alone and attacked. I've found some good contacts with women in the professional sphere here, so I've had outlets to discuss this. Since then I've found a better work situation with higher quality standards. Also, my boyfriend hasn't left me and I am still working in Asia. Last point I'd like to make is that when I got to know all of my female coworkers much better, I learned they hated the environment as much as I did. They just didn't speak up to defend themselves. I on the other hand did defend myself and I set clear boundaries, but the environment didn't improve. By the time I had quit, all of them had left the company and the CEO had no idea why he had such a problem holding onto staff. I'd like to see someone try to mansplain that.

Sexism is a problem in Thailand, both for Thai and farang women. I wish we could have a more constructive dialogue about it, but Thaivisa just isn't the place.

Quite the contrary, I do think the TV ladies' forum is the right place to discuss such topics, because here you will not only get recomforting posts from fellow ladies who share your point of view, but also get the opinion of men about that subject, so that the discussion remains a contradictory one and doesn't leave reality.

Some posters are posting nonsense or over-the-top opinions and soon get banned. I see no problem with that. som nom naa.

Regarding your complaints, I would say many things you mentioned do not have their place in the office (such as invasion of personal space).

At the same time I do also believe they should be allowed to talk as much shit as they want about Thai ladies or other - why care about it? I think the men wouldn't object Ladies talking about their latest nightclub conquests. But here is the problem already: the ladies don't talk like that.

Then there is the question of the networking.

I can only speak about personal experience - personally, I hate networking. The usual networking events are full of superficial wannabee businessmen and -women exchanging platitudes and competing in exchanging as much pseudo-insider knowledge and privileged contacts as they can to appear as someone "in the know" that is well connected. At the end, 95% are just employees without any decision making powers, and western "networking" events are usually a huge, boring, loss of time, except for the people who like to chit chat in an upscale atmosphere to show themselves off. Many ladies like it, I hate it.

I guess many expats see it the same way as I do - and I am so bold to believe most people with significant decision-making powers will see it the same way.

Networking events usually take place outside of office hours, so it's like working extra hours, i.e. unpleasant.

I would rather network while doing something that is enjoyable by itself instead of standing around in some boring place talking with boring people.

If the event combines some activity that's pleasant for me with networking, I will probably attend, since I will enjoy the activity and still have a 5% chance of meeting someone interesting.

So the problem again shows its nose: do men enjoy the same leisures as ladies? answer: no, except for the odd lady achieving a golf handicap below 24 or who likes to watch naked gogo dancers, and for the odd men who like arts expositions, theater performances, etc.

What men do when they go out golfing between colleagues is making it enjoyable as well as useful.

But take out the enjoyable part, for example by replacing a gogo bar or the golf course by an arts expo or going out to a wine bar, and to the men it will feel like unpaid overtime work on a sunday!

In the past I have worked in an environment that was very masculine, i.e. financial trading. There were quite a few women working with the men, but mostly they were as tough as the men and they were respected for that. When we went karting, paintballing or to the strip club, they tagged along and had a ball as well.

The trading rooms were a harsh place at the time, and we have been very angrily shouting at each other and insulting each other more than one time (that came with the job), but always from equal to equal, no trace of sexism. High tension, high work pressure, tons of special privileges coming with the job, tons of paid-for events with open bar tab, loads of R-rated fun - and many events were shared by our peers in other banks, so that these events were also networking events.

"Hey, remember when Lars from Fixed Income at Deutsche was so drunk that he kept felling out of that taxi in Singapore when we hit Orchard Towers?"

Things were like that still into the nineties, but then came the PC times - privileges vanished, events were toned down (because of what would "the people" think if they knew we were enjoying ourselves like that), and at some point the only events were the annual exchange parties (even those have been slashed by now) and boring networking events with some drinks with people standing around small high bar-style tables.

That was the time me and most of my colleagues didn't bother attending anymore. All the lustre and fun of that industry was gone.

Today, the networking events in the financial industry are attended by employees who are business-business minded and their only interests are their image and their network. Many of these very dislikable persons got promoted into management, many of the others left.

I honestly don't know what the solution is for such a situation as in Thailand and if there is a solution at all.

If there is a men's network that works well with gogo bars and golfing events, I wouldn't jeopardize it by making contorsions to change venues to better accomodate ladies, especially if these are a small minority.

I hope I didn't bore the reader too much with that post that got much lengthier than I first wanted it to be.