25 Rai, What To Do?

[mr78]

Me and the gf are planning to move back to Los in the (hopefully) near future. We're planning on starting up a business or two that may or may not generate some money, these businesses will take some time to get up and running, so we got the idea to grow something on her 25 rai that is not in use. And maybe if it turns out good skip the other ideas as they are not foolproof by any means.

The land is in a village outside of Nakhonsawan and people around there are mostly growing cassava corn and sugar. What I hope to learn from you is if we should just do what they do or are there something more profitable and/or easier to manage that we could grow? Someone told my gf that White Radish (hua pak gard?) would get a pretty good profit at 30b/kilo and we could get up to 3 crops during the cold season depending on the soil quality. Good/bad idea?

I also thought about a fish pond or two, but after reading some of the topics on that I realized that I would be in too deep (hehehe) trying that.

As you probably have figured out by now, I'm a newbie when it comes to this stuff. My gf and her family knows their stuff, but I would feel a bit more comfortable hearing what you guys have to say about it. Any advice/suggestion would be highly apprerciated!

Edit. I should probably say that we're not planning on getting rich from this, just get enough money to get by and maybe save a satang or two. We're easy going and are happy with the village life as long as we have a internet connection.

Edited January 9, 2013 by mr78

[Dancealot]

Good question Mr. 78. As a fellow newbie i advice you what i learned from the farmers here. Do it yourself first and try it out.

Try and see if you can cope with this.

[mr78]

Good question Mr. 78. As a fellow newbie i advice you what i learned from the farmers here. Do it yourself first and try it out.

Try and see if you can cope with this.

Hopefully I'll take the leap of faith soon and give it a go, my hope is that thaivisa will make my leap of faith into a little step of faith

I have thought alot about if I can cope with the farming lifestyle, and to be honest I really don't know, I can imagine it could be pretty stressful if a crop or two fails for instance. But there is only one way to find out and I am optimistic about the whole thing.

[Dancealot]

I like your positiveness.

Do not allow your little step to turn into a big change. And try 'the life' first, so to say: have taste before you commit to this.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Dancealot

[mr78]

I like your positiveness.

Do not allow your little step to turn into a big change. And try 'the life' first, so to say: have taste before you commit to this.

I think I will make sure to get the first crop planted as soon as possible after we arrive, and if I cant cope with the lifestyle we'll get her family to harvest it when the time comes.

I have thought about what you said about "the life" and as far as I know I am the only farang in the village, this might be a bit hard after a while as I like to have someone likeminded to talk to every once in a while. I will have to do some farang spotting in the surroundings and see if I can find someone to have a chat and a beer with from time to time.

To do list.

1. Farang spotting.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Depending on how much work you want to do. Something that does not require much work but takes a few years to produce is Mangoes.the labor is seasonal and they are always a desired fruit. Don't start from seeds as they typically don't provide fruit, they need to be grafted for best results. The time it takes to produce depends on the variety, typically 3-5 years. If you do plant some remember ultimately they are large trees so don't plant them to close together.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

[Mosha]

Check what the water situation is. Rainfall figures etc.

[David48]

To the OP ... the Farming Forum sees a lot of well intentioned folk like yourself who ask the general question ... 'I have the land or access to the land (insert size) ... what should I do ... I have never farmed before?"

Dancealot is a mate of mine from here and it's always good to read his positiveness but ...

For us it a case of ... ... until you supply further details.

• Where is the land?
  
• What is the soil quality like?
  
• Soil structure ... clay, sandy clay, sand?
  
• Access to water?
  
• Average rainfall?
  
• Land is cleared/regrowth vegetation/never been cleared?
  
• Access to machinery?
  
• Access to local labour?
  
• Experienced farming relatives?
  
• Have you explored the area and seen what other crops are grown?
  
• Explored the wholesale/retail market to discover prices for your product?
  
• Rent or buy the land?
  
• GF farmed before?
  
• ... ?
  

Complete the list yourself

You know that 'you' cannot own the land

So ... some food for thought ...

.

[Hedghog]

What about multiple crops.ie radish chilli bushes (from seedlings) banana trees,mango.

[IsaanAussie]

I like your positiveness.

Do not allow your little step to turn into a big change. And try 'the life' first, so to say: have taste before you commit to this.

I think I will make sure to get the first crop planted as soon as possible after we arrive, and if I cant cope with the lifestyle we'll get her family to harvest it when the time comes.

I have thought about what you said about "the life" and as far as I know I am the only farang in the village, this might be a bit hard after a while as I like to have someone likeminded to talk to every once in a while. I will have to do some farang spotting in the surroundings and see if I can find someone to have a chat and a beer with from time to time.

To do list.

1. Farang spotting.

I did what you are talking about. I got sample size alternate crops in the ground as soon as I could. The objective was obviously to see what grew and what problems existed, but there was also another question I needed answering. Would the family actually tend that crop if we weren't there? Could I count on them? Would they actually get the "we gotta farang now" hands dirty? In my case the answer was no they didnt. The positive thing was that the sweetcorn, sweet potatoes and the peanuts all produced some outputs even without water, fertiliser or weeding.

If you are planning on living as part of the family. Then test your expectations of what assistance and for how long it will be on offer. Test out their "real" level of knowledge by asking them what, how many, equipment needs etc... and then you let them run the show.

I suggest this as you stated you are unsure if you even want to do it. As a newbie, unsure of your abilities, doing it alone will be no fun. .

[cooked]

If I had suitable land I would be thinking about long term investment (teak, maybe eucalyptus, mangoes have been mentioned) even though I am getting to an age where I would probably no longer profit from it. We have a Rai or two where we (my BIL actually) cultivate various vegetables for market, next to a pool.

Anyway after a few months here I have had to admit that paper ideas worked out back home just aren't worth carrying through here. Market prices, the cost of fertiliser and pesticides, the very hard work...

You need to spend some time here first before deciding what you want to do.

[somo]

I think it would be best to go with something the locals are already growing and reserve only a small portion of the land

for trying new things. They have been there a while and do know a lot about what works and what doesn't. You will not be able to do all the work yourself so using the knowledge/skills of local labour will be essential. Later you can try imposing your approach and improving on what they do.

I can only talk about cassava but done right it is a relatively easy trouble free crop and there is clearly a ready market for it in your area. If you decide to go with it I will gladly give you a step by step guide to growing it but there is also a very good pinned topic about it.

I don't know your budget but you would need about 4k Baht/rai (more if you need to clear land first) to start growing cassava.

You have about 3 months until the rains so plenty of time to think about it.

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

[slapout]

To the op, you mention the 25 rai your gf owns is not in use. That is the first red flag, of about 4 more I noticed. As already mentioned there are several options and ways to approach them, but the first questions on the 25 rai, Why is it not being farmed at present, does the gf hold paper title to land, what would it take to clear, etc, etc.

Sorry I cannot give real advice on what you can/should/want to do as there are too many questions that pop to mind.

[jamescollister]

OP don't think a farang can live off the income from 25 rai of land unless he takes up living like a Thai farmer. Cold beer and good foods would be few and far between, don't see many Thai farmers living high off the hog out here.

Think if you are seriously looking at making a life farming you need to be looking at something more intense. Green houses, hydroponics 12 months a year farming. hard work and will cost a lot to set up.

As you have no experience, you could right off the first 3 to 5 years as a loss maker. Jim

[Jotham79]

If the land is cleared and your gf hold the title, then I would rent it out. 500 baht per rai for teh rainy season or 1,000 baht for the year. Sit back and see if someone can make any money off the land and understand that if you hire the work done your profit will be small if at all. If you can wait til July you can visit my farm in Petchabun. My claim to expertise is that I have not yet lost money on sugar, cassava, or rubber. Of course those are the only crops I haven't planted. Currently, I have jujubees, manila tamarind, magoes, maprang, guava, fish, frogs corn and teak. A few other small things like some poultry, bananas, and papaya are going on. I would visit as many places as you can and plan out what you want to do.

I agree with most of the others, if you don't lease or share crop, you will not show a profit for a while.

[mr78]

Thanks for all the solid advice and food for thought guys! I need it.

I'll try to answer some of the questions in this post.

The land is about 50 kilometers west of Nakhonsawan.

There is a dug pond on the sisters land, it's about 6*6m and is at the lowest level about 2 meters deep, I'm not sure exactly how far away it is but somwhere around 300 meters or so. The gf's land is on a lower elevation than the sisters so I figure that if we dig a pond we should get water? Or in worst case use a hose and a pump? Nobody have any use for the water so I don't know how quick the pond refills.

About 13 rai is cleared and have been recently farmed (cassava and rice), about 4 rai has last been farmed 2 years ago (rice) and the rest has never been cleared. The gf says that the soil on the cleared land (13 rai) is not the best as it has been farmed alot, but it produces normal crops of cassava and rice. The soil is neither sandy nor clay, so regular soil I guess?

There is good access to machines and operators in the area, and there wouldn't be a problem to get land cleared or soil turned(?) with a couple of days notice. There's pretty good access to local workers unless we plan to harvest at cassava harvest times when it can get a bit hectic.

Crops grown in the village area are mainly cassava sugar corn and rice. Less usual are mung beans and white radish.

Gf owns the land and has farmed before, the family are experienced farmers, but they stick with what they know and dont want to try something new as the old works fine, which is understandable if you can't afford to loose money.

We have done some research on market prices, but it's hard to know what is reliable and not. We got some idea about the market but have alot more research to do before deciding on what to go with.

Stuff we are thinking of growing are rice (to keep for ourself and maybe sell a bit) on about 5 rai, white radish, chilli, mung beans and sweet bamboo(?) for (what i hope) profit. These are just ideas and not written in stone, we have not decided on anything and are bouncing ideas back and forth, and doing some research.

And thanks again for taking the time to help us out, we are grateful for it!

Edited January 10, 2013 by mr78

[jamescollister]

OP try and think outside the square, there are opportunities a plenty out here if you see a need, or a market. Locals do things the safe way, they need to live, but some try something new and fail. Others Thai and farang sometimes try and win big time. Few and far between, but if you see the niche, you can do well. Jim

Edited January 10, 2013 by jamescollister

[mr78]

OP try and think outside the square, there are opportunities a plenty out here if you see a need, or a market. Locals do things the safe way, they need to live, but some try something new and fail. Others Thai and farang sometimes try and win big time. Few and far between, but if you see the niche, you can do well. Jim

We have thought about this and cracked quite a few "masterplans" on the subject. Problem is that we haven't been back in the village for quite some time and dont really know much about what the current market looks like. So we want to get something going to see how I adapt to the village life, and during that time have a look around and try to identify potential markets.

I have thought about everything from growing oaktrees to blueberrys

[jamescollister]

OP try and think outside the square, there are opportunities a plenty out here if you see a need, or a market. Locals do things the safe way, they need to live, but some try something new and fail. Others Thai and farang sometimes try and win big time. Few and far between, but if you see the niche, you can do well. Jim

We have thought about this and cracked quite a few "masterplans" on the subject. Problem is that we haven't been back in the village for quite some time and dont really know much about what the current market looks like. So we want to get something going to see how I adapt to the village life, and during that time have a look around and try to identify potential markets.

I have thought about everything from growing oaktrees to blueberrys

What do you do now, is it a skill that can be used here, there are many things that are open to try, not just growing. Farm land can be used with permission for other things that a farming related. Look at the big picture, not just what the locals do. Jim

[mr78]

What do you do now, is it a skill that can be used here, there are many things that are open to try, not just growing. Farm land can be used with permission for other things that a farming related. Look at the big picture, not just what the locals do. Jim

I used to be a construction worker, mainly escavation (spelling) but also some carpenting. But I gave that up a couple of years ago and became a struggling film editor/computer generated graphic "artist" working mainly on tv commercials. I have some ideas on doing something with my editing skills, but it's a very competitive field out there.

As for doing something with the land, there is a huge dam that the government expanded a while back and is now about 1 km from her land, this has more than doubled the price on the land and people from the village are starting to move there, and her land has 4 rai road frontage which is very good. So I have some ideas about that too, only our funds are not sufficient for these plans, and therefore I haven't done any research on wether my ideas are any good or not. First step is to try and get Nor Sor Sam (or better) titles on the land and take it from there. This should not be a problem as long we make sure to clear all the land first. Many people around there have got Nor Sor Sam titles during the years.

Edit. Sometimes I think the problem is that I have too many big ideas and they kinda get in the way of eachother...

Edited January 10, 2013 by mr78

[Michael Hare]

On 25 rai I could make a lot of money. Grow small seed crops like flowers, vegetables or grass seed crops. Very intensive but believe me, a lot of money can be made. The markets are there. The prices are stable.

[jamescollister]

What do you do now, is it a skill that can be used here, there are many things that are open to try, not just growing. Farm land can be used with permission for other things that a farming related. Look at the big picture, not just what the locals do. Jim

I used to be a construction worker, mainly escavation (spelling) but also some carpenting. But I gave that up a couple of years ago and became a struggling film editor/computer generated graphic "artist" working mainly on tv commercials. I have some ideas on doing something with my editing skills, but it's a very competitive field out there.

As for doing something with the land, there is a huge dam that the government expanded a while back and is now about 1 km from her land, this has more than doubled the price on the land and people from the village are starting to move there, and her land has 4 rai road frontage which is very good. So I have some ideas about that too, only our funds are not sufficient for these plans, and therefore I haven't done any research on wether my ideas are any good or not. First step is to try and get Nor Sor Sam (or better) titles on the land and take it from there. This should not be a problem as long we make sure to clear all the land first. Many people around there have got Nor Sor Sam titles during the years.

Edit. Sometimes I think the problem is that I have too many big ideas and they kinda get in the way of eachother...

Then you have a problem, doubt you can up grade the title to sam/ 3 or Gor, if the land has another title under another Government department. If the land is possession land [ no title] maybe. Otherwise you will just have to wait until the charnote surveys come. Out my way, think I will be pushing up daisy's before then.

A lot to think about and a lot to read, step carefully, a farang and his money can soon be departed. Jim

[mr78]

Then you have a problem, doubt you can up grade the title to sam/ 3 or Gor, if the land has another title under another Government department. If the land is possession land [ no title] maybe. Otherwise you will just have to wait until the charnote surveys come. Out my way, think I will be pushing up daisy's before then.

A lot to think about and a lot to read, step carefully, a farang and his money can soon be departed. Jim

She has a certificate of possession on the land. I don't doubt what you are saying as you surely have more knowlege than me in the matter, but people around there have had no problems (from what I've understood) to upgrade their land to nor sor sam. Maybe it's a fee involved or maybe I'm just misinformed... We'll find out eventually and I'll make sure to post about it and let you know how it turned out.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll see what google can tell me about it.

[jamescollister]

Then you have a problem, doubt you can up grade the title to sam/ 3 or Gor, if the land has another title under another Government department. If the land is possession land [ no title] maybe. Otherwise you will just have to wait until the charnote surveys come. Out my way, think I will be pushing up daisy's before then.

A lot to think about and a lot to read, step carefully, a farang and his money can soon be departed. Jim

She has a certificate of possession on the land. I don't doubt what you are saying as you surely have more knowlege than me in the matter, but people around there have had no problems (from what I've understood) to upgrade their land to nor sor sam. Maybe it's a fee involved or maybe I'm just misinformed... We'll find out eventually and I'll make sure to post about it and let you know how it turned out.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll see what google can tell me about it.

Yes if you can up grade please report back on how you did it.

I have some possession land, right of use, issued by the land reform something, but the nor sor 3 etc is a Provincial title not national. My understanding is the Province can only issue title on land they control. Good luck and get back with the outcome. Jim

[jaapfries]

The best thing to do (at least for us) is to plant-up a large portion of your land in "Ton-Son", which is the only tree in Thailand which does not have leaves, but rather like pine-needles. This is a very low-maintenance - High-return effort. Mind you; it does take about 7-8 years before you get any $$ back, but then it is very rewarding indeed.

Currently, you will nett about 650K - 750K per Rai.

[loong]

The best thing to do (at least for us) is to plant-up a large portion of your land in "Ton-Son", which is the only tree in Thailand which does not have leaves, but rather like pine-needles. This is a very low-maintenance - High-return effort. Mind you; it does take about 7-8 years before you get any $$ back, but then it is very rewarding indeed.

Currently, you will nett about 650K - 750K per Rai.

ต้นสน

As Dton son means Pine tree, conifer, it's not surprising that it has leaves like pine needles.

What makes pine so valuable as a cash crop?

Do you sell the timber, sap or what?

Does it have to be registered at the time of planting, the same as teak?

[TommoPhysicist]

If you need to make money, it will be a total disaster.

If it's a hobby, try not to waste too much money.

95% failure (or money loss) rate in farms that aren't run by farmers.

Edited January 11, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[cooked]

http://dokmaidogma.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/a-thai-pine/

[Khonwan]

mr78, I suggest you simply do what others are doing in your area for the first couple of years whilst you settle into your new life. Use the time to identify strengths and weaknesses, e.g. your wife’s relationship with the community and her (and your own) commitment to farming, the availability of labour and their skill-sets, etc.

If your land is not subject to water-logging, is not clay, is not too stony, I suggest you consider cassava since it is a relatively easy crop for a farming novice to grow and your investment should not be at risk since it is highly unlikely that you would make a loss.

Use the first couple of years to consider alternatives for later on. There are plenty of farming alternatives that can make a lot more money than basic crops like cassava, maize, rice, etc. but most of them will require a lot more effort from you. Learn to walk before you learn to run.

I’m not far from you – I’m in Mae Wong district; I’m a 100km drive west of Nakhon Sawan city. You’re welcome to visit.

Rgds

Khonwan

[mr78]

mr78, I suggest you simply do what others are doing in your area for the first couple of years whilst you settle into your new life. Use the time to identify strengths and weaknesses, e.g. your wife’s relationship with the community and her (and your own) commitment to farming, the availability of labour and their skill-sets, etc.

If your land is not subject to water-logging, is not clay, is not too stony, I suggest you consider cassava since it is a relatively easy crop for a farming novice to grow and your investment should not be at risk since it is highly unlikely that you would make a loss.

Use the first couple of years to consider alternatives for later on. There are plenty of farming alternatives that can make a lot more money than basic crops like cassava, maize, rice, etc. but most of them will require a lot more effort from you. Learn to walk before you learn to run.

I’m not far from you – I’m in Mae Wong district; I’m a 100km drive west of Nakhon Sawan city. You’re welcome to visit.

Rgds

Khonwan

This friday we got some not so good news and it seems that we won't be able to go to LOS for atleast 3-4 months, maybe even a year. We are trying to work around it, but we'll probably be too late for cassava. We'll see.

Anyway, thanks for the good advice, I think we'll follow it if we're able to get there in time. We'll be in Mae Poen district so I'll take you up on the invite when/if we make it to LOS