400 Baht Fines At Villa?

[Jerry Cornelius]

After spending some time in Hua Hin we decided to stop in at Villa yesterday to get a few items which we can't get up country. On the way back to our car I noticed a sign which indicated that a 400 Baht fine would be given if you parked your vehicle and left the engine running. The fine would be collected on exiting the car park. For a moment I thought I was back in Europe.

Now I'm 99.9% sure this heinus crime isn't covered by the laws of this land. If sitting in your car with the engine running is illegal then the cops would soon get rich fining drivers stuck in any tailbacks. So it got me thinking about how they would enforce collection of any fine they unilaterally imposed and if it was even lagal to do so.

I mean if you get to the exit and the security guy asks for 400 Baht and you refuse to pay. What's he going to do when you're just sitting there blocking the only exit? Call the cops?

It's the first time I've ever used a Villa car park so I don't know if they're all the same or not but somehow I can't stop thinking it's nothing but a scam.

Has anyone ever paid the 400 Baht?

[MrRealDeal]

If it's private property and it sounds like it I guess they can charge for whatever they want.

[Berkshire]

Have never heard of or seen such a thing. Rather bizarre.

[Jerry Cornelius]

If it's private property and it sounds like it I guess they can charge for whatever they want.

Maybe, I suppose it could depend on who owns the land but I would assume it would be Villa in this case. Even so, to do such a thing they would have to inform all patrons and the signs are in English only. There's no way they could impose their rules on a Thai customer.

I've not come across anything like this before in Thailand.

[impulse]

I suspect cars have been stolen out of the parking lot, made very easy by leaving them running. Then the owner of the lot gets sued and it costs them a lot of time and money to settle things.

Or if it's covered parking, they may have had other customers complain about the fumes or refuse to shop there because of the fumes they have to endure in the car park.

They may have neighbors filing complaints because of the noise and/or fumes.

Or they may just be do-gooders trying to decrease the carbon footprint related to their operations.

I can think of a lot of reasons they may want to incent you to turn off the engine on their property. Their property, their prerogative on the terms and conditions of allowing me to use it. I have no issues with that. If I don't like it, I can shop right down the street.

Edited January 18, 2013 by impulse

[Jerry Cornelius]

Have never heard of or seen such a thing. Rather bizarre.

My thoughts also.

I would like to know if this is typical of all Villa's car parks as I've only visited the car park of the at Hua Hin.

[HeijoshinCool]

Khun Pong, the owner of Villa, would never authorize such a thing.

Give him a call. PM if you want his number. His English is quite good.

Heads, I would think, will roll. Probably the one on the shoulders of the attendant.

[Jerry Cornelius]

I suspect cars have been stolen out of the parking lot, made very easy by leaving them running. Then the owner of the lot gets sued and it costs them a lot of time and money to settle things.

Or if it's covered parking, they may have had other customers complain about the fumes or refuse to shop there because of the fumes they have to endure in the car park.

They may have neighbors filing complaints because of the noise and/or fumes.

Or they may just be do-gooders trying to decrease the carbon footprint related to their operations.

I can think of a lot of reasons they may want to incent you to turn off the engine on their property. Their property, their prerogative on the terms and conditions of allowing me to use it. I have no issues with that. If I don't like it, I can shop right down the street.

It isn't a covered car park. In fact it's quite small holding maybe 25-30 cars in all.

I'm pretty sure the property would be owned/leased by Villa which is why I would like to know if their other stores do this. There are no such signs at Village market which has a much larger car park that is underground.

If you're foolish enough to leave your car unattended with the engine running and it gets stolen then serves you right in my opinion. I'm not sure about Thai insurance companies but if that happens in a western country your insurance is unlikely to pay up. The owner only needs to signpost a disclaimer to cover this eventuality.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has seen these signs at a different Villa.

The signage is in English only so the unilateral rule can't be used against German, Russian, French, Danish and of course Thai folks.

To me it's just a silly scam which hasn't been thought through properly and has no lawful provenance. The presence of such scams doesn't prevent me from going about my daily business and neither willl this one.

I'll still use Villa without hesitation but if the engine is kept running I'll make sure my wife is driving and smile.

[bendejo]

I noticed in Malaysia that it's pretty common that guys will sit in their cars with the engine running, and not just in areas where wife/kids/etc are off doing something. Maybe they're showing off that they have cars. Maybe it's their refuge away from the family, and they run the engine to power the AC. Leaving the car empty with the engine running -- is that common? Not too smart.

[arthurwait]

Isn't there a place you can eat with tables outside there IIRC ? Probably what it's about.

We tell the coaches here to turn the engines off but they are much bigger unserviced pollution machines, not the cars though.

[impulse]

Leaving the car empty with the engine running -- is that common? Not too smart.

Used to live in Wyoming and it was so cold in the winter, folks would leave their cars running in the parking lot of the fast food places and go in to eat. You came back out and your car (or just as likely- your pickup truck) was still there and still running. Never once did I hear of a car stolen, but that was 20 years ago. I doubt it's as friendly today... People didn't lock their front doors, either- or their back doors.

Today, I'm amazed at the number of people who leave their cars running, lock the doors with the clicker and dash into a store for a quick purchase. Can't say I've seen it a lot in Thailand, but I don't drive here yet so I don't pay attention.

Edited January 18, 2013 by impulse

[Jerry Cornelius]

Isn't there a place you can eat with tables outside there IIRC ? Probably what it's about.

We tell the coaches here to turn the engines off but they are much bigger unserviced pollution machines, not the cars though.

Not sure about that but I think there may be a delicatessen or something similar there. There weren't any tables that I saw but it was early. Only Villa and the flower shop were open at the time.

If they also serve meals outside then the fact that they're postioned in a shopping area may encourage them to try and provide a better dining experience for their customers away from the common roadside bistro or cafe. But, why use threats to get your point across.

A polite notice can be more effective when the reasoning behind the request is understood. The signs are in English only.Their approach suggests that all English speaking folks are to be threatened and cajoled into complying with their personal desire.. They have no respect so don't get any of mine.

I wonder if they put ash trays on their tables. mmmm

[dantilley]

Why would anyone want to park their car with the engine running anyway? Seems like a pretty obscure and odd thing to be fining people for, can't imagine they'll get much income from it.

[Khonwan]

A law actually does exist – introduced perhaps 10/15 years ago – and, if I recall correctly, the fine was/is Bt2,000. The fine-warning was posted all over the country, and I’m sure I’ve come across them recently too.

[arthurwait]

Isn't there a place you can eat with tables outside there IIRC ? Probably what it's about.

We tell the coaches here to turn the engines off but they are much bigger unserviced pollution machines, not the cars though.

Not sure about that but I think there may be a delicatessen or something similar there. There weren't any tables that I saw but it was early. Only Villa and the flower shop were open at the time.

If they also serve meals outside then the fact that they're postioned in a shopping area may encourage them to try and provide a better dining experience for their customers away from the common roadside bistro or cafe. But, why use threats to get your point across.

A polite notice can be more effective when the reasoning behind the request is understood. The signs are in English only.Their approach suggests that all English speaking folks are to be threatened and cajoled into complying with their personal desire.. They have no respect so don't get any of mine.

I wonder if they put ash trays on their tables. mmmm

Probably because a great many people in Thailand take no notice of the signs or rules. Thai and Farang. Which we experience multiple times a day with smokers here.

Why are the signs in English ? Well it's Hua Hin most their customers will be farang. Most the Thais that live there can't afford to shop there except those married to farangs and all the Bangkok middle class Thai tourists that go to Hua Hin can buy all the stuff in Bangkok so would hardly shop there and can most likely read English.

[KhunBENQ]

Why would anyone want to park their car with the engine running anyway? Seems like a pretty obscure and odd thing to be fining people for, can't imagine they'll get much income from it.

Sorry to ask, but how long have you been in Thailand?

If I would get 400 Baht for every stinking Diesel pickup that is running unattended on our local Tesco parking lot, it would not a need a pension.

One of the annoying daily experiences: running motors with no sense.

My big applause to Villa market for this tiny bit of awareness!

And if read the other posts, I realize that many must be from US citizens who don't care about fuel gussling and spoiling the environment.

That is one of the common habits with Thais.

On the other hand: the signs being in english only would be a harsh kind of discrimation.

@Jerry Cornelius: you habe doublechecked that? Can you read Thai?

Edited January 19, 2013 by KhunBENQ

[dantilley]

Coming up for 8 years. Never seen a car parked in a car park with the engine running.

[cgphuket]

Why would anyone want to park their car with the engine running anyway? Seems like a pretty obscure and odd thing to be fining people for, can't imagine they'll get much income from it.

Actually, some people do so they can their A/C running and the car cool.

[Payboy]

They should do that at my golf course. All those chauffeurs waiting with the engine & a/c running, while the nai takes 6+ hours to complete their painfully slow rounds.

[Fgis]

A private property cannot charge anything if you are not under contract with them (liek yoru condo) or even.

If they want to charge for something that happened on their property they have to go to the court or suxx your willy to get some coins !

[cbrer]

Email Villa and ask.

I've contacted them about products before and they replied better than expected.

Edited January 19, 2013 by cbrer

[loong]

Coming up for 8 years. Never seen a car parked in a car park with the engine running.

I've never seen it either.

Seen motorbikes left running outside of shops very occasionally. Maybe they are worried that they will not start again if switched off.

[rixalex]

Coming up for 8 years. Never seen a car parked in a car park with the engine running.

I've never seen it either.

Seen motorbikes left running outside of shops very occasionally. Maybe they are worried that they will not start again if switched off.

15 years. Never seen it, at least never without a person being in the car. Delivery vehicles when loading/unloading perhaps.

Modern cars don't take more than a few minutes to get cool. Seems a bit daft.

[KhunBENQ]

Actually, some people do so they can their A/C running and the car cool.

An everyday event on our Tesco parking lot to name just one example.

Specially in the hot season.

Seems some posters live in a better part of Thailand.

[Ragnarok]

Villa grocery stores are very up to date with environmental concerns. You have to bring your own bags to the Nichada Villa. I'm sure the rule about the cars running is to save the environment. It probably concerns drivers who sit in a/c cars while waiting. Schools have this problem too.

[dantilley]

Actually, some people do so they can their A/C running and the car cool.

An everyday event on our Tesco parking lot to name just one example.

Specially in the hot season.

Seems some posters live in a better part of Thailand.

Where is this Tesco with the car engine runners?

[PTG]

Villa grocery stores are very up to date with environmental concerns. You have to bring your own bags to the Nichada Villa. I'm sure the rule about the cars running is to save the environment. It probably concerns drivers who sit in a/c cars while waiting. Schools have this problem too.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Schools have the sign to stop people like me who happily leave the AC and car on for an hour if I have to wait out in the sun while the ex did her thing, (spending my money on crap she did not need).

[Camelot]

It is the law and one of many pollution control measures authorised by the Clean Air Act of a decade or more ago. I've seen the sign in several car parks including the seven-storey one at my office. It usually says a 2,000 baht fine because that is the maximum.

In Bangkok I think this is also covered by a municipal ordinance. Might be the same in Hua Hin. Never heard of anyone actually being arrested or fined, but I do know someone who was given a warning by police for leaving his car engine running while the vehicle was not in use. Parking attendants all seem to know about it.

Nice of Villa to offer a discount.

[KhunBENQ]

Where is this Tesco with the car engine runners?

I am living in the "Isan jungle" near Chum Phae, 80 km west of Khon Kaen.

Maybe I gone open my ears and nose to find more examples.

Edited January 20, 2013 by KhunBENQ

[MacChine]

It's commonly done, (usually by the SUV types) to leave the engine running by those who can't stand heat, yet move to the tropics for some strange reason. Makes me sick how spoiled and utterly unconscious some people are regarding heat, pollution and fuel consumption.

btw If you plug up the exhaust pipe, the engine will cut out. Potatoes work well for this.

Why would anyone want to park their car with the engine running anyway? Seems like a pretty obscure and odd thing to be fining people for, can't imagine they'll get much income from it.