My Wife Has Thrown Me In The Deep End!

[chasggg]

Some Thai wives don't want their western husbands learning Thai -- they want their husbands to be isolated and dependent upon them for even the simple transactions involving money, visas, property titles, etc. One of my pet peeves is watching the older western guys with their Thai wives conducting business at the bank, immigration, utility offices, etc, in Chiang Mai. These places have customer service reps who speak acceptable English, yet when a guy has a Thai wife, they will revert to talking to the wife in Thai. Often the customer service reps are speaking entire paragraphs about complex transactions, which the wife then conducts, often with minimal input from the western guy who is supplying the money. Certainly the poor guy is not getting a word-for-word translation of what he is signing or OKing.

My husband and I have been invited to a few social functions where we are the only western/western couple. All the other guys have the "good fortune" to be married to young, beautiful Thai wives while poor Hubby is stuck with his original western wife. Anyway, I'm in "no woman's land" at these functions -- I have little in common with the Thai wives and the guys don't want to talk with an old, pudgy white woman who reminds them of their first wife. So, I drink beer and hover. I understand the Thai language much better than I speak (and can read and write, too) All the wives talk about are the latest things their husband bought for them for them or their family -- how much money their husbands are spending on them. They try to out-do each other and you can see the jealousy building among them.

Once I shared with some of the guys what their wives were saying and they were shocked at their topics of conversation. I said, "what did you expect them to be saying -- how good you are in bed?"

Now that's the kind of post I wade through puddles of drivel for........brilliant.....!

[Brigante7]

My Thai wife does not want me to learn thai, I think she's worried that I'll understand what she's saying about me, but then sitting in a room full of thais and not being able to join the conversation suits me fine, I'd be hoarse after a day, they all shout when they talk.

[transam]

Some Thai wives don't want their western husbands learning Thai -- they want their husbands to be isolated and dependent upon them for even the simple transactions involving money, visas, property titles, etc. One of my pet peeves is watching the older western guys with their Thai wives conducting business at the bank, immigration, utility offices, etc, in Chiang Mai. These places have customer service reps who speak acceptable English, yet when a guy has a Thai wife, they will revert to talking to the wife in Thai. Often the customer service reps are speaking entire paragraphs about complex transactions, which the wife then conducts, often with minimal input from the western guy who is supplying the money. Certainly the poor guy is not getting a word-for-word translation of what he is signing or OKing.

My husband and I have been invited to a few social functions where we are the only western/western couple. All the other guys have the "good fortune" to be married to young, beautiful Thai wives while poor Hubby is stuck with his original western wife. Anyway, I'm in "no woman's land" at these functions -- I have little in common with the Thai wives and the guys don't want to talk with an old, pudgy white woman who reminds them of their first wife. So, I drink beer and hover. I understand the Thai language much better than I speak (and can read and write, too) All the wives talk about are the latest things their husband bought for them for them or their family -- how much money their husbands are spending on them. They try to out-do each other and you can see the jealousy building among them.

Once I shared with some of the guys what their wives were saying and they were shocked at their topics of conversation. I said, "what did you expect them to be saying -- how good you are in bed?"

Must agree, my Thai wife tells me the same stuff.

[Rsquared]

OK...just an update to my dilema, here I am in my sports bar (man cave) music on, playing on my wii against Tiger Woods, and I see something out of the corner of my eye......my neighbour has snuck in behind my back.

My wife is at work...so no translation. He begins saying a few words that I understand, then goes into pantomime (more confusion)....I think through his actions that one of my dogs has bitten someone....I panic, thinking of all the consequences that can arise from this episode.

Another beer for us, phone call to wife......no answer. Xxxx!

More beers, more pantomime, more confusion......double Xxxx. Phone wife....still no answer!

Finally, wife answers phone....I describe my anxiety about one of our dogs biting someone......hand the phone to neighbour....... unintelligible conversation continues, I get the phone back....wife says, neighbour suggests letting said dog free at night to discourage potential intruders from stealing fish from our dam down the back of our property so that it can bite intruders.

Such relief!!!

All the more reason for me to get my head down and learn this language.

Wish me luck.

Cheers.

[yourauntbob]

The highspeedthai computer program really helped me a lot. Using it off and on for about 2 years now and I am far from fluent but understand the general sentiment of most conversations as long as people are speaking slowly. I am sure if I was truly dedicated it I would be much further along.

Another good way: pick a word or two a day that is commonly used around your house and have your wife speak that word(s) only in Thai when using them. If you pick up 3 words a day and hear them regularly you will slowly pick up on the language. The same way that almost everyone knows "sa wa dee" and "cup koon krup" it will take a while and you will not be able to read or write but you slowly build. example: the misses never asks me to wash the dishes, she now says "long juhn" or if i am hungry "hu mai" or if i want to go out "by teowl mai" etc........

[nisakiman]

It is a fact of life that some people have a natural linguistic ability and others do not (and of course all the shades of grey in-between). I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence or education, but more to do with how your brain is wired. I have noticed that people who grow up bilingual seem to be able to absorb other languages quickly and easily, and I think that learning two languages simultaneously as a child must alter some of the synapses in the brain, and unlock the "language learning" area.

Native English speakers are in many ways at a disadvantage, because they have as their mother tongue what is nowadays the international language. As an English speaker, you can pitch up just about anywhere in the world, and there will be someone around who will speak English. So we lack the imperative to learn another language. It's made us lazy. All the members of TV who do not come from an English speaking country have HAD to learn at least English. As anyone who travels at all must. And when you MUST learn another language, then you do, even if you're not a natural. But if the wife does all the talking / translating, it's all too easy to take the lazy route.

I do speak another language, and know some of several others, but I'm not a natural. I have to work at it. When I leave Greece, I will retire to LOS, and start the process of learning Thai. It gets harder as you get older they say, but I intend to get to a conversational level. My wife uses quite a lot of Thai when she speaks to me, so I get a little bit familiar already! Plus I learned the basics (numbers, greetings etc) on my visits from years back. Lessons would probably help the OP. I never had lessons for Greek, but I'm sure it would have helped, and I think that's what I'll do when I come to learn Thai.

[Dancealot]

OK...just an update to my dilema, here I am in my sports bar (man cave) music on, playing on my wii against Tiger Woods, and I see something out of the corner of my eye......my neighbour has snuck in behind my back.

My wife is at work...so no translation. He begins saying a few words that I understand, then goes into pantomime (more confusion)....I think through his actions that one of my dogs has bitten someone....I panic, thinking of all the consequences that can arise from this episode.

Another beer for us, phone call to wife......no answer. Xxxx!

More beers, more pantomime, more confusion......double Xxxx. Phone wife....still no answer!

Finally, wife answers phone....I describe my anxiety about one of our dogs biting someone......hand the phone to neighbour....... unintelligible conversation continues, I get the phone back....wife says, neighbour suggests letting said dog free at night to discourage potential intruders from stealing fish from our dam down the back of our property so that it can bite intruders.

Such relief!!!

All the more reason for me to get my head down and learn this language.

Wish me luck.

Cheers.

Excellent thread but i am lazy to plough through it alone.

So RX, hereby i offer to do it together. We have to find a way to stimulate each other, perhaps a weekly contest....

http://www.thaivisa....one-word-a-day/

[loong]

Yep, learned Laos first, Isan was a little more difficult. In the village I live in the background is Thai/Laos so most speak Isan (laos style). Then picked up Thai which was not as difficult with the two backgrounds.

Not fluent by any stretch of the imagination but I get by with day to day conversations. I always suggest to people try learning Thai through music (ie Karaoke) as it helps with pitch (which is just another type of tone). Helps. Writing also helps. The word "mai" sounds very similar except "pitch" when you see it spelt though it looks as different as "yes" and "wood" in English. Helps as well.

You do realise Laos and Issan are pretty much the same language.

I'm not so sure about that.

Isaan seems to be a mixture of Lao and central Thai and depending on where you are in Isaan, the local language seems to either lean towards Lao or Thai.

Just because you can speak Lao, it doesn't automatically mean that you will understand Isaan.

In this village, there is a variety of dialects.

We all know that "R" is often pronounced as an "L" in Isaan, but it can also be "H" by some people. ie The Thai word for Love can be Ruk, Luk or Huk.

Words that begin with "Ch" are replaced with "S"

It can get very confusing.

[poanoi]

Try to find a teacher that can explain things to you, in a language you can appreciate.

Then practice with whomever gets in the way.

[Scully]

Yep, learned Laos first, Isan was a little more difficult. In the village I live in the background is Thai/Laos so most speak Isan (laos style). Then picked up Thai which was not as difficult with the two backgrounds.

Not fluent by any stretch of the imagination but I get by with day to day conversations. I always suggest to people try learning Thai through music (ie Karaoke) as it helps with pitch (which is just another type of tone). Helps. Writing also helps. The word "mai" sounds very similar except "pitch" when you see it spelt though it looks as different as "yes" and "wood" in English. Helps as well.

You do realise Laos and Issan are pretty much the same language.

I'm not so sure about that.

Isaan seems to be a mixture of Lao and central Thai and depending on where you are in Isaan, the local language seems to either lean towards Lao or Thai.

Just because you can speak Lao, it doesn't automatically mean that you will understand Isaan.

In this village, there is a variety of dialects.

We all know that "R" is often pronounced as an "L" in Isaan, but it can also be "H" by some people. ie The Thai word for Love can be Ruk, Luk or Huk.

Words that begin with "Ch" are replaced with "S"

It can get very confusing.

Ok it is regional by dialect but where rct lives near Khon Kean people speak Laos.

Laos language uses Thai words (or vice versa) but people from this part of Issan speak Laos.

I find Laos incredibly difficult to get nearly the right accent

[MrWorldwide]

I met a girl in Cambodia who claimed that she could find my hotel if I wrote the name in very large letters on a napkin so that she could compare the symbols with the sign on each of the hotels on that block - she felt no shame in the fact that she could neither read nor write in ANY language. For all that, her spoken English would wipe the floor with 90% of the women I've met in Pattaya - bargirl or otherwise. Where she developed that level of fluency was of less interest to me than the fact that she did it without so much as a Khmer-English dictionary. The point was made earlier - some people simply have a gift. An ex-GF came to Oz from Germany as a child and the Army snapped her up for 12 months of Bahasa Indonesia training followed by several years of monitoring their radio transmissions. Of course, you didn't read that here

(to my knowledge, she hasnt used her Bahasa since leaving the Army in the 90s - a huge waste, IMO)

[Rsquared]

I met a girl in Cambodia who claimed that she could find my hotel if I wrote the name in very large letters on a napkin so that she could compare the symbols with the sign on each of the hotels on that block - she felt no shame in the fact that she could neither read nor write in ANY language. For all that, her spoken English would wipe the floor with 90% of the women I've met in Pattaya - bargirl or otherwise. Where she developed that level of fluency was of less interest to me than the fact that she did it without so much as a Khmer-English dictionary. The point was made earlier - some people simply have a gift. An ex-GF came to Oz from Germany as a child and the Army snapped her up for 12 months of Bahasa Indonesia training followed by several years of monitoring their radio transmissions. Of course, you didn't read that here

(to my knowledge, she hasnt used her Bahasa since leaving the Army in the 90s - a huge waste, IMO)

Thank you for sharing that with us MrWorldwide, I do agree that some people have a natural ability to pick up on different languages.....my forte' is mathematics, and I even failed english a few times....so my ambition to learn Thai is a mangnomanious adventure.

Cheers.

[samran]

I met a girl in Cambodia who claimed that she could find my hotel if I wrote the name in very large letters on a napkin so that she could compare the symbols with the sign on each of the hotels on that block - she felt no shame in the fact that she could neither read nor write in ANY language. For all that, her spoken English would wipe the floor with 90% of the women I've met in Pattaya - bargirl or otherwise. Where she developed that level of fluency was of less interest to me than the fact that she did it without so much as a Khmer-English dictionary. The point was made earlier - some people simply have a gift. An ex-GF came to Oz from Germany as a child and the Army snapped her up for 12 months of Bahasa Indonesia training followed by several years of monitoring their radio transmissions. Of course, you didn't read that here

(to my knowledge, she hasnt used her Bahasa since leaving the Army in the 90s - a huge waste, IMO)

Thank you for sharing that with us MrWorldwide, I do agree that some people have a natural ability to pick up on different languages.....my forte' is mathematics, and I even failed english a few times....so my ambition to learn Thai is a mangnomanious adventure.

Cheers.

You'll like the Thai tonal rules then. Formula's all the way and shouldn't be too hard to remember.

[loong]

I met a girl in Cambodia who claimed that she could find my hotel if I wrote the name in very large letters on a napkin so that she could compare the symbols with the sign on each of the hotels on that block - she felt no shame in the fact that she could neither read nor write in ANY language. For all that, her spoken English would wipe the floor with 90% of the women I've met in Pattaya - bargirl or otherwise. Where she developed that level of fluency was of less interest to me than the fact that she did it without so much as a Khmer-English dictionary. The point was made earlier - some people simply have a gift. An ex-GF came to Oz from Germany as a child and the Army snapped her up for 12 months of Bahasa Indonesia training followed by several years of monitoring their radio transmissions. Of course, you didn't read that here

(to my knowledge, she hasnt used her Bahasa since leaving the Army in the 90s - a huge waste, IMO)

Thank you for sharing that with us MrWorldwide, I do agree that some people have a natural ability to pick up on different languages.....my forte' is mathematics, and I even failed english a few times....so my ambition to learn Thai is a mangnomanious adventure.

Cheers.

You'll like the Thai tonal rules then. Formula's all the way and shouldn't be too hard to remember.

Yet another post that strengthens the recommendation to learn to read Thai, if only a little bit.

Learn to recognose the Thai consonants and what class those consonants are and then tone is no problem.

I probably have the reading ability of a 5 year old, but it really helps me to get pronunciation and tones correct.

[Rsquared]

Thank you Loong, that is what I am finding with the program I am using at the moment....High Speed Thai, it is building a foundation albeit different to other learning courses I have looked at, but I feel confident and I just need to keep on trudging along.

Cheers.

[Dancealot]

Yet another post that strengthens the recommendation to learn to read Thai, if only a little bit.

Learn to recognose the Thai consonants and what class those consonants are and then tone is no problem.

I probably have the reading ability of a 5 year old, but it really helps me to get pronunciation and tones correct.

@ the farm 5-year olds correct my spelling. Very funny and they love to do it because they respect i am trying to write. Good fun and learning this way.

In a way i could say i am learning more from the students then from teachers. I am combining fun with learning.

for instance i get their attention when i am practising funny words.

Anal yse ขี้ for instance RXsquared...

[Rsquared]

Just a side note, I took LarryBird's advice and am reading "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. Iam about 75% of the way through and it is very inspirational and has given me a whole new aspect in the way to approach my studies.

Just love this new age technology....look up a book then download it to my Kindle.....I only wish I could download Thai directly into my brain.

Cheers. (enough time spent here...back to study).

[Familyonthemove]

Several people have mentioned the difficulty of understanding the tones as a barrier to learning Thai. I really struggled with tones (and still do after 4 years) and I think I'm tone deaf ..... but it's not really a barrier. Just try your best - and if you get the tone wrong (or have no tones like me!) then one of three things will happen:

1. The Thai person you are speaking to will understand from the context what you mean and probably correct your tone to help you learn (most likely option)

2. The error will be very funny and everyone will have a good laugh - including you when they explain the error (probable - Thai's like a good laugh)

3. They have no idea what you are saying - but hey - you're no worse off (rare)

The chances of a serious error in communication are unlikely - as it will be obvious your Thai sucks (like mine) but they will appreciate the effort and slowly you'll get better.

From my experience there's only a few tone errors that can cause real problems (far and near for example) but most times it's obvious what you mean.

Talking about horse riding is a good one for unintended humour ..... riding a dog, your mother or some wood .... or even worse .... having a crap on a dog, a horse or your mum!

Lets be honest - the real barriers most of us have to learning Thai are embarrassment and lack of effort. I've overcome the first hurdle - still struggling with the second.

[homeownership]

Try the Rosetta Stone Program, it helped me learn the grammar needed to contruct a basic sentence, after a while, you find yourself asking Thais what this is and what that is and building up your language. Learning Thai isnt a fixed point, it is like every language, each day new words are learnt, such as Gangdam Style.

Who would have thought "Gangdam" would become a word used by half the world. It is infact a posh part Seoul, South Korea.

[thaibeachlovers]

Try the Rosetta Stone Program, it helped me learn the grammar needed to contruct a basic sentence, after a while, you find yourself asking Thais what this is and what that is and building up your language. Learning Thai isnt a fixed point, it is like every language, each day new words are learnt, such as Gangdam Style.

Who would have thought "Gangdam" would become a word used by half the world. It is infact a posh part Seoul, South Korea.

If a stupid VDO is in fact revered by half the world, it is the saddest thing I ever heard.

[Pinot]

Married to a Thai and plan to spend the rest of life here. I'll never learn Thai. I know a few phrases like "PoudThai mai dai" ( I don't speak Thai). I'm a musician and know the words and music to 100's of songs but 4 years of failed high school French taught me I have trouble learning languages. I have a five second retention span on new words. Thai is an extremely difficult language to learn and I seem to do alright without it.

To the OP, how about just saying I don't speak Thai?

[Bagwan]

At my great age there is no mileage in wasting my time and effort to speak Thai. My remaining time is spent more profitably in teaching the kids in my Thai family English, Mathematics and Geography. I have picked up enough Thai words and phrases to get me by and I seldom have problems in either understanding or making myself understood. Of course living in Pattaya/Jomtien ensures that I do not have any great difficulty. I am sure that when I pass on the guy standing at the Pearly Gates will not address me in Thai. Everybody knows that he will speak English.

On the few occasions that the BIB have tried to shake me down I put on my puzzled face and speak a mixture of French and German. Five minutes of non-communication and then I am on my way, wallet unburdened. Not speaking Thai does have an upside.

I read recently that some guru stated that in 50 years time there will be only four spoken languages in use. English, Spanish, Mandarin and I forget the other. You can put the housekeeping money that it won't be Thai.

[Rsquared]

Married to a Thai and plan to spend the rest of life here. I'll never learn Thai. I know a few phrases like "PoudThai mai dai" ( I don't speak Thai). I'm a musician and know the words and music to 100's of songs but 4 years of failed high school French taught me I have trouble learning languages. I have a five second retention span on new words. Thai is an extremely difficult language to learn and I seem to do alright without it.

To the OP, how about just saying I don't speak Thai?

I could probably survive without learning Thai as well......but I choose to learn it as best I can.

Everyone has their reasons for learning or not learning, that's fine as long as everyone is comfortable with their choice. I can personally see more benefits in learning than not......but that's just for me.

Cheers.

[Vinny1967]

A major barrier for me is my accent.I try to repeat things her family try and teach me.In my mind I think I'm saying it right,but it's coming out differently because of my accent.I has the same problem when I was living in Holland.Thinking I'm saying things right but because of my twang I'd be saying something completely different.Thai is even harder because of all the tone and what not.Also I can't reach the high tones that they seem to be able to reach.

[loong]

A major barrier for me is my accent.I try to repeat things her family try and teach me.In my mind I think I'm saying it right,but it's coming out differently because of my accent.I has the same problem when I was living in Holland.Thinking I'm saying things right but because of my twang I'd be saying something completely different.Thai is even harder because of all the tone and what not.Also I can't reach the high tones that they seem to be able to reach.

If you are having trouble reaching the high tones, it is probably because you are trying to imitate the way that a woman speaks. Probably because you have very little interraction with Thai men.

Watch a few movies that have been dubbed in Thai, seems to me that it is the same bloke that does all of them. You will have no problem with imitating the way he pronounces high tones.

[Jigger]

In order to better my Thai, my girlfriend has been kind enough to only talk to me in Thai.... Its very hard at times but I am finding I am improving 10X faster then I ever did when trying to just learn via books and online.

Might be worth considering... Even if you only do it at night time.

[RedBullHorn]

The perfect place to practice a new language... The Toilet (while you're taking a dump) That's how i improved my Northern Thai and later the Thai language. I have 3 toilets in my house so nobody can complain that I'm holding up the space. My wife use to wonder what I'm doing inside, told her that's my office and I'm balancing my credit cards bills...and if you concentrate enough, it will be hours before finally come out. My longest hold up was 3 hours.

[Jigger]

The perfect place to practice a new language... The Toilet (while you're taking a dump) That's how i improved my Northern Thai and later the Thai language. I have 3 toilets in my house so nobody can complain that I'm holding up the space. My wife use to wonder what I'm doing inside, told her that's my office and I'm balancing my credit cards bills...and if you concentrate enough, it will be hours before finally come out. My longest hold up was 3 hours.

Cant do it.... My toilet time is for playing Angry Birds! 555

[NancyL]

I've lived here for about 4 years, studying Thai language for three sessions per week. I regard it as a hobby to keep my (retired) brain active. As has been mentioned by others on this thread, you don't need to know the Thai language to survive in Chiang Mai -- even without a Thai wife.

I've had three really good teachers (and others who weren't so good). The good ones have had extensive experience teaching Thai to English speakers and they all have the same assessment. We worry (and inexperienced teachers) worry w-a-y too much about the importance of tone with new students. For native English speakers (i.e. the tone deaf), the first order of business is to learn vocabulary and then talk-talk-talk as much as possible with native Thai speakers who are willing to gently correct (or model correct) tone. Basically, they say we English=speakers get way too hung=up on tone and reject learning the language when that is the initial primary focus.

They say that English-speakers have a nature progression of learning that is diffierent from those whose native language is a tonal language. First we have to learn vocabularly, then the correct way to pronounce the several dozen vowels, then tone. They say the final barrier is to correctly pronounce vowels -- to differentiate between short and long vowels.

I'd heard that learning a language is like peeling an onion, but I didn't really appreciate that statement until I was three years into learning Thai. Right now I'm working with a teacher who is new (for me -- but experienced) and we're going thru her self-written books and lesson plan. She's a big fan of flash cards drills for vocabulary (all of which I know, so far), but I'm insisting that instead of just saying the word, I also write it correctly and pronouce the tones correctly and I've asked her to correct me when I don't pronouce short and long vowels correctly.

This is an example of doing a "drill down" or "peeling the onion". I'm amazed that once I remember how to spell a word and can see it in my "mind's eye", I'm much less likely to mis-prounounce it. Also, once I've learned how to spell a word, somehow I don't forget it. The teacher is having great fun in sneaking in flash cards from weeks ago and discovering I can still spell the word. Also, she loves to "give me dictation" and says I can write as quickly as a native Thai speaker.

Wow! Somehow I've stumbled on the best way for me to learn a language. Those who think they are "hearing" or "tone-impared" should explore other ways to learn the language besides the parrot method.

[TomTao]

I'd heard that learning a language is like peeling an onion

Both can make you cry.