Isn't English your native language, TM?

Interesting question.

I was born in the mandate of Palestine in 1947. I am fluent in English, Danish, Norwegan and Swedish. I speak Hebrew, French, a little Arabic and can get around in Thai.

In how many languages are you native?

Gosh, too bad that you didn't focus on just one...then you would have gotten good at it.

Ehh, how did Darwin get into this discussion? And I don't think Darwin's theory of evolution is generally accepted as the truth? I thought it's one of those concepts which make perfect sense if you accept the basis, but cannot be proved?

No theory can be proved.

Scientific theories are never proven to be true, but can be disproven. All scientific understanding takes the form of hypotheses, or conjectures. A theory is in this context a set of hypotheses that are logically bound together.

There are two uses of the word theory; a supposition which is not backed by observation is known as a conjecture, and if backed by observation it is a hypothesis. Most theory evolves from hypotheses, but the reverse is not true: many hypotheses turn out to be false and so do not evolve into theory.

A theory is different from a theorem. The former is a model of physical events and cannot be proved from basic axioms. The latter is a statement of mathematical fact which logically follows from a set of axioms. A theory is also different from a physical law in that the latter is a model of reality, whereas the former is an explanatory statement of what has been observed, explaining the why and how of the observed physical law.

Theories can become accepted if they are able to make correct predictions and avoid incorrect ones. Theories which are simpler, and more mathematically elegant, tend to be accepted over theories which are complex. Theories are more likely to be accepted if they connect a wide range of phenomena. The process of accepting theories, or of extending existing theory, is part of the scientific method.

Is this some theory of yours? I have a theory that if I look in my pants that I will see an outy and not an inny......yep....I just proved my theory.....see.....theories can be proven. Try this one on yourself and see if you can make a theory....and then prove it to be true.....science is fun!!!

No theory can be proved.

Scientific theories are never proven to be true, but can be disproven. All scientific understanding takes the form of hypotheses, or conjectures. A theory is in this context a set of hypotheses that are logically bound together.

There are two uses of the word theory; a supposition which is not backed by observation is known as a conjecture, and if backed by observation it is a hypothesis. Most theory evolves from hypotheses, but the reverse is not true: many hypotheses turn out to be false and so do not evolve into theory.

A theory is different from a theorem. The former is a model of physical events and cannot be proved from basic axioms. The latter is a statement of mathematical fact which logically follows from a set of axioms. A theory is also different from a physical law in that the latter is a model of reality, whereas the former is an explanatory statement of what has been observed, explaining the why and how of the observed physical law.

Theories can become accepted if they are able to make correct predictions and avoid incorrect ones. Theories which are simpler, and more mathematically elegant, tend to be accepted over theories which are complex. Theories are more likely to be accepted if they connect a wide range of phenomena. The process of accepting theories, or of extending existing theory, is part of the scientific method.

Is this some theory of yours? I have a theory that if I look in my pants that I will see an outy and not an inny......yep....I just proved my theory.....see.....theories can be proven. Try this one on yourself and see if you can make a theory....and then prove it to be true.....science is fun!!!

Did not being able to understand really make you poop your pants?

Next time, suck your thumb, its less messy - and you never know, if you think hard enough the penny just might drop (instead of your over filled underpants).

Zzap,

I brought Darwin into this because it is Darwin that raised the whole question of life without God, and thereby necessitated the invention of 'Inteligent Design'.

Contrary to your claim, Darwin's theory of evolution has stood the test of over a century of testing and continues to be refined.

If you can find some credible publications that refute Darwin's theories and support the antithesis with evidence I'd be delighted to hear of them so I can have a read.

But please, spare me quotations from religious scritures.

-------

As for the contents of Chow's underwear - an odd example to bring up, and one for which an Austrian Gentlemen might have had one or two theories of his own.

"But please, spare me quotations from religious scritures."

No worries about that one, not my style. I'll get back to you later, with something to the point, maybe.

Let's see what else comes up, first.

Is this some theory of yours? I have a theory that if I look in my pants that I will see an outy and not an inny......yep....I just proved my theory.....see.....theories can be proven. Try this one on yourself and see if you can make a theory....and then prove it to be true.....science is fun!!!

But Chownah, what is your belly button doing in your pants...? Mine is (still, for now) in my shirt....

Is this some theory of yours? I have a theory that if I look in my pants that I will see an outy and not an inny......yep....I just proved my theory.....see.....theories can be proven. Try this one on yourself and see if you can make a theory....and then prove it to be true.....science is fun!!!

But Chownah, what is your belly button doing in your pants...? Mine is (still, for now) in my shirt....

Old age mate, everything starts to sag when you get old, and what was once in your shirt ends up in your underpants.

ahh!.. Thanks.

I´ll stay young then...

...

This is turning into a really interesting discussion, I'm glad I started it! However, if you read my previous posts, I am accepting that my 'starting' point is as a believer in an omnipotent God. I did not once quote a scripture, I have been very careful not to do so.

However, quoting Darwin is not a basis for anything. I studied Darwins 'Theories' many years ago - they prove nothing, nor are they attached to the original post. The problem with evolutionary 'theories' is that they are stated as fact, which they are not!!!

I was very fortunate to have a science teacher (many moons ago) who taught us the difference between theory and fact. I have no problem in saying that a belief in a God is an issue of faith based on personal experience and understanding. And that also, evolutionary theories are just that, theories. So don't quote them as fact!

If your 'opinion' is that Chaos theory is not an indicator of Intelligent design, fine, that is your opinion, that's why I posted this topic. It was not my intention to prove (or disprove) the existance in God.

Keep those thoughts coming...

My money is on aliens - like even among us to this day.

It's never been proven that the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids...

It's never been proven that the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids...

Then who did?

It's never been proven that the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids...

Then who did?

Aliens.

G_D created the aliens and they.....did a lot of stuff.

It's never been proven that the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids...

Then who did?

Aliens.

G_D created the aliens and they.....did a lot of stuff.

Boon Mee, I think your real purpose on TV is to get laughs!

suegha,

I have stated very clearly why I contend Darwin matters to this thread. He is at the route of the problem with the whole concept of Inteligent Design.

Rather than ignore Darwin, you need to address what he says, you also need to decide what exactly it is you want from Science, for example you tell us:

However, quoting Darwin is not a basis for anything. I studied Darwins 'Theories' many years ago - they prove nothing, nor are they attached to the original post. The problem with evolutionary 'theories' is that they are stated as fact, which they are not!!!

You are missreading what a Theory is. Darwins theories are not facts - They are theories; Go back to what Thomas Merton posted above to get an explanation of what a theory is and why a theory 'DEMONSTRATES/EXPLAINS' a theory does not 'PROVE'.

So Darwin's theroies explain and demonstrate. You can disagree with them but to sucessfully challenge them you would have to come up with an alternative, demonstratable hypothosis - Ah! You call that 'Inteligent Design', very well - Give us an example of Inteligent Design that cannot be explained by Darwinian Evolution Theory?.

Oh and what was that you said about

I was very fortunate to have a science teacher (many moons ago) who taught us the difference between theory and fact. I have no problem in saying that a belief in a God is an issue of faith based on personal experience and understanding. And that also, evolutionary theories are just that, theories. So don't quote them as fact!

Now, two things: Darwin did not say Evolution is a Theory. He said Evolution is a Fact - Demonstratable, Observable and Recordable' What Darwin did was explain the mechanism of Evolution. He took an observation that life forms evolve (something others had already been observing) and he produced a rational (faithless) explanation of how that happens.

He did not say his Theory was fact - he never claimed that.

However, and this is a problem people who denounce Darwin have to overcome, Darwin's Theory of Evolution has been repudiated by every branch of the natural sciences - No antithesis to Darwin has yet stood scietific examination. Moreover, new sciences including the study of gentics have demonstrated the reliability of Darwin's theories.

Now, if I can go back to something else you asked, right up there in your first post:

Does Chaos Theory (CT) prove the existance of Intelligent design?

This is what I mean when I say you need to decide what you want from Science. You can't trash Darwin's theories, tell us Theories prove nothing and then seek a proof of Inteligent Design in a mathematical theory.

The reason why you make this mistake is because you are not grasping what theory means. Again go read Thomas Merton's post.

In particular the bit about having a theory and working back to an Hypothosis.

Suegha,

Maybe this will help. Take some people who have never heard of Darwin's theories and show them all of the evidence from fossils and where they came from and what layers of earth they were found in and how the analyis of radioactive materials and trace elements and ALLLLLL that other stuff that scientists have been finding out for the last 100 odd years..........show these people all of that stuff and ask them to come up with some theories that explain it.

Intelligent design is one possible theory to explain it...but there is one catch that disqualifies intelligent design from being accepted as a scientific theory. That catch is that there is no way to test whether the theory of intelligent design is true or not...and science insists that its theories be testable.

Darwin's theories could be used to explain it...and in fact many people have looked at all of these discoveries and they find that Darwin's theories are positively great at explaining most all of that evidence. In fact there is sooooo much evidence that can be explained by Darwin's theories that scientists doing research in fields related to this mostly accept Darwin't theories without question. It seems that the scientists who try to find evidence that disagrees with Darwin's theories have a very very difficult time finding it.

I hope this makes it clearer why Darwin's theories are widely accepted in scientific circles and intelligent design is not.

Chownah

Who was it that said:-

"If there was no God, we would have to invent him".

Maybe we already have?

Here's an interesting link, check it out. It's one of many...

http://www.creationdesign.org/If%20you%20b...0evolution.html

Suegha,

Please spare us internet links to website written by creaitionists, they prove nothing other than that someone else believes the same as you and that they know how to produce a website.

Suegha,

Please spare us internet links to website written by creaitionists, they prove nothing other than that someone else believes the same as you and that they know how to produce a website.

I am not going to post arguments on this thread that would take an 'age' to post or read. You need to do your research, I have done mine! The link was one of interesting content that might get you thinking. Your starting point is preventing you from understanding. I know many scientists who 'do not' hold with evolution (all the contradictory theories, I might add).

As I said before, I accept my starting point is as a believer in an omnipotent God, I therefore belief what He says. I was not born with this view, I arrived at it through study and meditation.

Now, back to Chaos Theory...

Then I take it you don't need Chaos Theory to validate your faith, and if that is so, what was the point of your original post?

Oh and where did you hear what God said?

Oh no, we have another creationist on board

Do they also believe in the invisible hand of free markets ?

Then I take it you don't need Chaos Theory to validate your faith, and if that is so, what was the point of your original post?

Oh and where did you hear what God said?

Correct, I don't need any theory to validate my faith. The point of the OP was to generate some discussion, which I thought was very interesting.

Your question, "Oh and where did you hear what God said?" I don't know what the point of this is, however, I hear God speaking every time I read and study my Bible. He tells me exactly how it all began, and I rate His words higher than anyone elses!

I started the world.

You are all losers.

I'm GOD, The Klazy Krown.

So there.

If you don't take this post seriously.... You will burn in the eternal flames of darwinism forever...

I started the world.

You are all losers.

I'm GOD, The Klazy Krown.

So there.

If you don't take this post seriously.... You will burn in the eternal flames of darwinism forever...

If you get to be God I am your polar opposite!

I read and study my Bible. He tells me exactly how it all began, and I rate His words higher than anyone elses!

The Bible, that's a book right?

And... erm .... who wrote the bible?

I started the world.

You are all losers.

I'm GOD, The Klazy Krown.

So there.

If you don't take this post seriously.... You will burn in the eternal flames of darwinism forever...

If you get to be God I am your polar opposite!

Wot??? You are Darwin...Or the Devil...

I read and study my Bible. He tells me exactly how it all began, and I rate His words higher than anyone elses!

The Bible, that's a book right?

And... erm .... who wrote the bible?

John, Mark, Luke, and that other bloke, with a bit of help by some stoner Jews...Apparently.... Although it could have been Michael Crichton, and possibly, at a strech, J.R.R. Tolkien (one of his earlier ones, i presume)

I started the world.

You are all losers.

I'm GOD, The Klazy Krown.

So there.

If you don't take this post seriously.... You will burn in the eternal flames of darwinism forever...

If you get to be God I am your polar opposite!

Wot??? You are Darwin...Or the Devil...

TheDevilTheDevilTheDevilTheDevilTheDevil!

Tis better to reign in H3ll then serve in Heaven.

I read and study my Bible. He tells me exactly how it all began, and I rate His words higher than anyone elses!

The Bible, that's a book right?

And... erm .... who wrote the bible?

John, Mark, Luke, and that other bloke, with a bit of help by some stoner Jews...Apparently.... Although it could have been Michael Crichton, and possibly, at a strech, J.R.R. Tolkien (one of his earlier ones, i presume)

I read and study my Bible. He tells me exactly how it all began, and I rate His words higher than anyone elses!

The Bible, that's a book right?

And... erm .... who wrote the bible?

Well, I appreciate the sarcasm! I could be sarcastic in return and ask who wrote the books you read?

Who wrote the bible? God wrote the bible, and if you took the time to read it you would appreciate that. I have avoided quoting scripture in this thread, however, there are dozens of occasions where that is clearly stated.

Funny enough, I don't think you'd be particularly interested in my quoting them, so as it would be fruitless, I wont!

Thanks for your input...

Note to Kayo and TBB, thanks for the much needed frivolity!!!

I read and study my Bible. He tells me exactly how it all began, and I rate His words higher than anyone elses!

The Bible, that's a book right?

And... erm .... who wrote the bible?

Well, I appreciate the sarcasm! I could be sarcastic in return and ask who wrote the books you read?

...

Just need to correct your grammar:

"I could be sarcastic in return and ask who wrote the book you read, once?"

I once went to a lecture given by Doris Lessing at Copenhagen University, who said, "You know very little until you have read The Bible, The Koran, The Bhagavad-Gita and the The Dhammapada. When you have read them, then you will realise there is not much more you need to know".

Reading them certainly puts most "theories" in perspective.

A word of caution:

Never discuss you religious beliefs on Thaivisa (unless you are a Buddhist and use the Buddhist forum) - there are too many Saints and Mother Teresas out there; they wouldn't understand what you are talking about.