The Importance Of Preparing A Will In Thailand

[Jip99]

I like the power of attorney (POA) option 'cause it does give the wife the legal ability to move money out of my account (although, unfortunately, there maybe no one at work that day that understands the POA option). But, with an MTD account, she can do this online with ibanking -- and a POA gives her legal cover. And, no need to go to the bank with my passbook.

Even if she exercised this a day or two after my death, it's doubtful the bank manager would know the exact time of death, nor would he probably care or investigate. And, of course, if she did this while I was in a coma, on my way to exit, she'd be completely legal.

Hmmm. Maybe no probate afterall.... Thanx, Pib, for identifying the POA option.

All mandates cease upon death - including PoA's. They are only of use during the lifetime of the donor.

Can't speak for other countries (but I can guess) but in the UK you cannot nominate a beneficiary for a bank account. Well you can, it;s called a Will - and that is the overriding legal document for dispersal of assets.

A joint bank account is different - that passes by succession to the surviving account holder (wife, brother, friend...).

That said, as far as Thailand is concerned, most friends have a post-death plan for their partners to withdraw funds via ATM and online banking. A Will is merely a back up.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Cheers. I guess I can make out the will in English and then get it "officially" translated (and then checked by someone who can read Thai). Got to be cheaper than paying the 10,000 I was quoted by another Bangkok law firm.

Yes, In no way was I meaning to suggest or imply that a Thai will needs to be drafted by an attorney in order to be legally valid. It doesn't, especially for a will that's not complicated.

But, whatever Thai will version a person does do does need to comply with the specific procedures under Thai law for that particular type of will -- handwritten, amphur or other.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That said, as far as Thailand is concerned, most friends have a post-death plan for their partners to withdraw funds via ATM and online banking. A Will is merely a back up.

It would be interesting to hear from surviving spouses who've gone the ATM or online bank routes what success (or lack of) they've had in handling things that way.

Unfortunately, those folks here relying on those approaches for future planning aren't going to be around in the aftermath to tell just how things worked out.

[JimGant]

All mandates cease upon death - including PoA's. They are only of use during the lifetime of the donor.

Legally speaking, yes. But practically speaking, the bank probably won't know of your death, at least in the near term. Thus, if your wife (whomever) has her name on the back of your passbook, she should probably be able to drain your account. (I say 'probably' because the POA action of getting her name on the back of the passbook doesn't seem to be mainstream knowledge, as John's posting above re MTD account indicates.)

That said, as far as Thailand is concerned, most friends have a post-death plan for their partners to withdraw funds via ATM and online banking. A Will is merely a back up

As previously discussed, if you have a fixed account (at least with Bangkok Bank) -- and it is not joint due to Immigration requirements -- you cannot have the wife tap this account by ATM or online. The workaround is the MTD account, earlier discussed on this thread. Or you could just have a plain savings account, which she can tap online -- but which pays lousy interest.

Or, make her a POA on your fixed account -- and hope for the best.

Can't speak for other countries (but I can guess) but in the UK you cannot nominate a beneficiary for a bank account. Well you can, it;s called a Will - and that is the overriding legal document for dispersal of assets.

So, in the UK, your bank account can't go to a designated beneficiary -- but must go through probate? And here I thought the lawyer mafia in Thailand was bad.......

[Pib]

Can't speak for other countries (but I can guess) but in the UK you cannot nominate a beneficiary for a bank account. Well you can, it;s called a Will - and that is the overriding legal document for dispersal of assets.

So, in the UK, your bank account can't go to a designated beneficiary -- but must go through probate? And here I thought the lawyer mafia in Thailand was bad.......

Jim,

I was a little surprised to see above statement about the UK also...but Thailand does mimic European govt style and laws more than U.S. govt style/laws, not to imply one is better or worst than the other. After some googling it seems beneficiaries may be designated by UK folks but with only a couple of exceptions the money is generally only released during the probate process. Seems much more stringent than in the U.S. in regards to a beneficiary on a bank account where it's pretty much show-up at the bank with the death certificate and if you are the designated beneficiary on the bank account you can walk out the door with the deceased money...a beneficiary designation on a account even overrides what a will may direct like this partial quote from a Wall Street Journal article.

Ihttp://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303714704576383523441136038

Increasingly, investors have the option of naming beneficiaries directly on a wide range of financial products. The appeal: When the account owner dies, the assets go directly to the beneficiaries named on the accounts, bypassing the sometimes long and costly probate process. The problem: Because these beneficiary designations override your will, they need to be carefully coordinated with your overall estate plan.

In my googling, the following U.K. website seems to provide a good overview of the UK probate process via a Q&A format: Link.

[JimGant]

Pib, good catch with that link....

Here's one quote from it:

Normally, you need a grant of representation or confirmation if the value of the deceased’s estate (after paying the funeral account) is over £5,000.

These days, banks and building societies impose their own discretionary limit upon when they need a grant of probate or confirmation. (my emphasis)

Kinda like in Thailand, where we're seeing that probate on a bank account is not required -- unless the bank says so. (But, to my knowledge, no one has reported on de minimis demarcations for probate, or not.)

[dirtycash]

i just made a will with decent lawyer in north pattaya road, just up from fairtex gym same side . 4k all in. glad i made one to protect my condo and bank accounts for my children. you need one so do not be lax, make one now if you have asset in los.

[zapatero]

Regarding the accessibility of joint accounts after one of the owners deceases.

I cannot remember of seeing this nuance in this thread, but it may be helpful to some. I just talked with the bank managers at two different banks where my wife and I have joint accounts. My question was, "will my wife have any problem accessing our joint account when I die?" Their answer was, "it depends on how your joint account was established". i.e., if the account was established with an "OR" ownership then both managers told us that there would be no problem. However, if the account was established with "AND" ownership, then both parties would have to be present to access the account -- which in our context would be inconvenient. Neither manager even mentioned the need for a will.

Both managers did indicate however that the account ownership should be changed to the surviving party ASAP. And this would require the presentation of a death certificate.

FWIW....

[chris2004]

i just made a will with decent lawyer in north pattaya road, just up from fairtex gym same side . 4k all in. glad i made one to protect my condo and bank accounts for my children. you need one so do not be lax, make one now if you have asset in los.

I need to make a will here soon. Do you remember the name of the lawyer, 4k sounds good.

[Star Dust]

Very Useful. Does a Will and Testament have to be 'Registered' with anyone ?

Yes, with your local Amphur. The Amphur retains the original & provide an official receipt, at least that was my experience with the Banglamung Amphur in Chon Buri

Hi.

Yep. I can confirm that. Same it was for me at my local Amphur up north in Udon

[Star Dust]

Regarding the accessibility of joint accounts after one of the owners deceases.

I cannot remember of seeing this nuance in this thread, but it may be helpful to some. I just talked with the bank managers at two different banks where my wife and I have joint accounts. My question was, "will my wife have any problem accessing our joint account when I die?" Their answer was, "it depends on how your joint account was established". i.e., if the account was established with an "OR" ownership then both managers told us that there would be no problem. However, if the account was established with "AND" ownership, then both parties would have to be present to access the account -- which in our context would be inconvenient. Neither manager even mentioned the need for a will.

Both managers did indicate however that the account ownership should be changed to the surviving party ASAP. And this would require the presentation of a death certificate.

FWIW....

Hi.

Very, very good question.

I'm at the Siam Commercial Bank and have been sitting there with my wife listening to similiar statements about our joint account by our bank managers.

My bank said the same. When I kick the bucket, my wife and our lawyer (we use a local guy) would get the will from the local Amphur, hand it in at the bank and gain access to my accounts.

Because we had some annoying experiences with Siam Commercial Bank regulations in the past concerning such verbal statements by bank employees which in the end always turned out differently then we were told before my wife decided to terminate the joint account, and set up seperate accounts where at our bank they even had an information brochure regarding Last Will/Spouses access to the account, and further proceedures for terminating my account once she had emptied it over to her account.

Now, with the right questions and some research that is actually quite easy to set up.

How about our accounts in our home countries? Do you still have one?

I have 2 in Vienna, Austria. How's that gonna work. Last will translaed in German? My wife flying to VIE, contacting a lawyer there (100Euros only for him looking at you) and then???

How do you do that?

[jayceenik]

I have a bank account in Belgium.

I wrote a holograph testament for it last May - by hand in French - naming my Pattaya TGF as sole inheritor.

She knows about this and has has ready access to that testament.

When the time comes she'll forward this testament to a Notary in Belgium I have chosen and stipulated along with her bank account number in Thailand and my Death Certificate.

The Pattaya Thai Death Certificate will have to be taken first to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs at ChaengWattana for stamping and then to the Belgian Consulate in BKK where it will be translated and certified for free in French. This Certificate will be sent to the Notary.

The Belgian Notary will handle everything from there. He'll deal directly with the bank and the Euros in my account will soon be transferred automatically to her account in Thailand after notary fees taken out.

Of course different countries different laws.

[Star Dust]

I have a bank account in Belgium.

I wrote a holograph testament for it last May - by hand in French - naming my Pattaya TGF as sole inheritor.

She knows about this and has has ready access to that testament.

When the time comes she'll forward this testament to a Notary in Belgium I have chosen and stipulated along with her bank account number in Thailand and my Death Certificate.

The Pattaya Thai Death Certificate will have to be taken first to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs at ChaengWattana for stamping and then to the Belgian Consulate in BKK where it will be translated and certified for free in French. This Certificate will be sent to the Notary.

The Belgian Notary will handle everything from there. He'll deal directly with the bank and the Euros in my account will soon be transferred automatically to her account in Thailand after notary fees taken out.

Of course different countries different laws.

Thank you for you advice/way of dealing with it.

This actually answers all my questions. I thought it might work the way you have described it anyways. I just hadn't had the head and asked straight forward in the Forum. Thanks for listening.

Belgium is EU, so is the Mountain Republik I think that it will be just the way you did it.

I'm in Munich right now getting some business done. It's god damn freezing here. And the people are soooo depressed.

You kind of have to grin and "hardcore smile" at them for ages, before getting a reaction at all. They only ones returning a smile almost immediately are the Persians (Muslime).

That is realy weird.

I don't think that I've to explain to you what it means to realize for oneself, that my country of origin has nothing that interrestes me anymore ,but offering boredom, despair, and goosebumps at bodyparts I have never thought it possible getting goosebumps at all.

Not to mention the cost of living. I just had a "Kebab". By now it has become Germanies most inexpensive and most eaten meal for 4.80 Euros.

(Austria and Bavaria are top ranking when it comes to most expensive Eurozones. 4.80 Euros is 162 THB at the moment.

For a 160 Baht I'd feed the both of us.

So happy to be back Home in Udon in 2 weeks

k, mate. thx

Talk 2 u later

Regards

David

[Stan42]

According to Section 1629 CCC (the order in which heirs are entitled to inherit), is it true that (in the case of an absence of a will), if there are several descendants, and there is a dispute, then the oldest descendant becomes the main trustee ?

[nuttewz1]

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[trojanhorse]

OK I may have the reply to the questions about 10 pages back, when your thai wife dies, the house & land was in her name. You as a foreigner cannot inherent the land which I was under the understanding that you could. Now we have 2 children, as per the question before can you put a clause in there to occupy the land house etc until death, denying son, selling etc. Now 2nd, If you have other land houses etc I read that you have 1 year to dispose of them before state takes over?

[snoopy21]

I did it through a law firm 3 years ago. But the problem is the lawyer does not use a letterhead of the law firm but simply typing the testament in two sheets of A4 sized paper. Does it matter or does my will still "effective" after I passed away?

[simple1]

I did it through a law firm 3 years ago. But the problem is the lawyer does not use a letterhead of the law firm but simply typing the testament in two sheets of A4 sized paper. Does it matter or does my will still "effective" after I passed away?

Did your lawyer notarise in conjunction with an official stamp?

[Jip99]

I did it through a law firm 3 years ago. But the problem is the lawyer does not use a letterhead of the law firm but simply typing the testament in two sheets of A4 sized paper. Does it matter or does my will still "effective" after I passed away?

Did your lawyer notarise in conjunction with an official stamp?

There is no necessity for a lawyer to notarise a Will in Thailand.

[simple1]

I did it through a law firm 3 years ago. But the problem is the lawyer does not use a letterhead of the law firm but simply typing the testament in two sheets of A4 sized paper. Does it matter or does my will still "effective" after I passed away?

Did your lawyer notarise in conjunction with an official stamp?

There is no necessity for a lawyer to notarise a Will in Thailand.

Ok. However, that's what I was informed by my Thai lawyer. I do recognise Thai language Will takes precedence, perhaps this is the case when lodging a Thai Will in conjunction with English language version for both to be notarised?

[Jip99]

I did it through a law firm 3 years ago. But the problem is the lawyer does not use a letterhead of the law firm but simply typing the testament in two sheets of A4 sized paper. Does it matter or does my will still "effective" after I passed away?

Did your lawyer notarise in conjunction with an official stamp?

There is no necessity for a lawyer to notarise a Will in Thailand.

Ok. However, that's what I was informed by my Thai lawyer. I do recognise Thai language Will takes precedence, perhaps this is the case when lodging a Thai Will in conjunction with English language version for both to be notarised?

A Thai Will does not 'take precedence', and English Will is perfectly valid in Thailand.

By lodging the Will I presume you mean at the amphur - in that case it must be in Thai (I hope you can fully understand what is being lodged),

Does the proposed Will just relate to assets in Thailand?

[simple1]

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Ok. However, that's what I was informed by my Thai lawyer. I do recognise Thai language Will takes precedence, perhaps this is the case when lodging a Thai Will in conjunction with English language version for both to be notarised?

A Thai Will does not 'take precedence', and English Will is perfectly valid in Thailand.

By lodging the Will I presume you mean at the amphur - in that case it must be in Thai (I hope you can fully understand what is being lodged),

Does the proposed Will just relate to assets in Thailand?

OK. Affirmative to all your questions. I wrote my requirements in English and the lawyer did some work to ensure it met Thai legal requirement and wrote up in both Thai & English. Reviewed by my stepson, lawyer and stepson both fluent in English. Will was straight forward as all Thai physical & liquid assets bequeathed to my Thai wife and if she dies before me to stepson.

In case someone desires to make the usual distrusting commentary wife, stepson and I have lived together for many years.

[trojanhorse]

Any chance anyone answer my post?

[mercman24]

just one flaw "notifying the beneficeries" ? me, single guy worth a bit,i want to die of natural causes, and not be one of those balcony divers, police list as a "suicide" this is Thailand after all,i want it to be a surprise to those who will benefit after i am gone.and not someone giving me a "helping hand" as it were,, lol !!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

OK I may have the reply to the questions about 10 pages back, when your thai wife dies, the house & land was in her name. You as a foreigner cannot inherent the land which I was under the understanding that you could. Now we have 2 children, as per the question before can you put a clause in there to occupy the land house etc until death, denying son, selling etc. Now 2nd, If you have other land houses etc I read that you have 1 year to dispose of them before state takes over?

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, this is the situation in Thailand.

You need to think about land as being separate from houses/improvements. Generally, a foreigner cannot own Thai land in his/her name. But you can own houses that sit on land owned by others.

If you're legally married to a Thai woman who owns land and you inherit the land upon her death, Thai law gives you up to 1 year to sell the land yourself, though I believe I've read here on the forum that some local jurisdictions give lesser lengths of time, such as 6 months.

Under Thai law, you and the wife, prior to her death, can also execute a document called a usufruct that would give you the right to continue occupying the property for your lifetime, even if you don't own it. But, from what I've read here, some Thai local governments don't seem to want to accept usufructs for farangs.

And of course, there's always the prospect of unhappy family members who may feel THEY are entitled to the property instead of you making your life difficult or dangerous in the wake of a spouse's passing. It has been known to happen, as sad and unfortunate as that may be for Thailand.

[mercman24]

JIP99, you keep going on about "this can be done for 2000 baht, please pray tell us all where one can go to get this done, dont keep quoting "200o baht, thankyou

[mercman24]

sorry, i forgot to say, i live in Phra khanong Bangkok

[evadgib]

Of interest to Brits who still believe in that 'DIY' baloney re wills:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34462706