Must Read---- How My Friend Lost 15K Baht W His Bangkok Bank Debit Visa

[AlexDorneles]

I want to tell everyone here what happenend to a friend of mine so it does not happen to you.

My friend lost his Visa Debit card from Bangkok Bank and the person who found used it the spent more than 15k bht from his savings account.

He reported the card lost within an hour and it was too late. My thai gf went to Bangkok Bank several times to try to dispute the unalthorized charges and even though the signature CLEARLY didn't match his, Bangkok Bank refused to return his money.

So basically if your card is lost or stolen or someone else simply uses it to make purchases you are 100% liable for all loses. This is for the Visa purchases that don't require a PIN.

He could have lost a lot more since the daily standard limit is 50k baht for all cards unless requested to a lower amount so if you have a Bangkok Bank Visa debit card for your saving account call the bank and tell them to disable the card for purchases, only ATM use.

You can also request the daily limit be reduced, I think the minimum is 20k bht.

Now I only use my credit cards from american banks which have zero liability if lost or stolen.

[lemoncake]

Your friend can always contact Visa direct and they will make bank do the work properly

[ThaiLife]

Can you change a Bangkok Bank Visa Debit card to one that for purchases all so needs a PIN ( I think ive seen some sort of small PIN keyboard at sales outlets )

[AlexDorneles]

I just changed mine to ATM only since there is an ATM in every corner in BKK.

[richard_smith237]

Is it possible to get 'Chip & Pin' ATM and Debit cards for Savings accounts in Thailand ? (From any Bank, i.e. Kasikorn, Bangkok Bank, SCB etc)...

[monty]

Is it possible to get 'Chip & Pin' ATM and Debit cards for Savings accounts in Thailand ? (From any Bank, i.e. Kasikorn, Bangkok Bank, SCB etc)...

Yes you can.

Bangkok bank has one, the only (big) drawback is that it only works at Bkk bank atm machines and pos units.

Not sure the other banks have something like it...

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I have Visa debit cards for Kbank and TMB (both pin operated in ATMs but without a chip) but I am careful that these are linked to accounts that only have a minimal balance. That way the potential downside is limited.

I wouldnt have Thai credit card if the bank paid me to have one. I do have UK credit cards which are fully protected against all fraudulent use, of course.

Edited February 17, 2013 by BlackPuddingBertha

[sms747]

Banks here are little better than the crooks themselves

[monty]

Banks here are little better than the crooks themselves

How true, but most assuredly not unique to Thailand...

If you want to be safe, do as Blackpudding, seperate accounts with and without atm.

Nowadays with internetbanking, you could move funds to your atm accound instantly on your smartphone.

Siam Commercial has an Android app, Bkk bank has mobile internet banking, used both and they work safe and secure....

[Dancealot]

This is a common (Thai)visa card issue but i think it is good the OP mentioned this to make more people aware of the risque.

[monty]

A lot to do with the merchants simply not checking signatures of cards/slips, combined with the banks refusing to punish the merchants (i.e. not paying the merchant if signature doesn't match).

[el jefe]

This is not an issue regarding Thai merchants or banks or a Visa issue. It's the difference between DEBIT cards and CREDIT cards.

Most people don't understand the different risks associated with each.

[monty]

This is not an issue regarding Thai merchants or banks or a Visa issue. It's the difference between DEBIT cards and CREDIT cards.

Most people don't understand the different risks associated with each.

Partly but not totally.

Thai proper credit cards also have a very bad rep regarding customer protection....

[I Like Thai]

A lot to do with the merchants simply not checking signatures of cards/slips, combined with the banks refusing to punish the merchants (i.e. not paying the merchant if signature doesn't match).

It's probably just as difficult for a Thai to distinguish between foreign signatures as it would be for a foreigner to decide if a Thai signature matches

[JAS21]

I'm with Bangkok Bank. I have two savings accounts. One that I can only withdraw/transfer money from to my 'other' account by going into the bank with my bankbook' The 'other' account I don't ever keep much more than 50K Baht in. It has one of these ATM cards that you can only use in a BB m/c and it cannot be used to pay for goods.

I've seen the cashier at the shop ... they don't ever look at the signature!!!!!!!!! OK not having a credit card you miss out on a few offers and sometimes I have to get someone else to pay by their credit card... some hotel bookings.

But as someone said there are plenty of ATM m/cs about ... just needs a little planning.

In a way you can't blame the bank .. the shop which accepted the card is the one to blame. If the bank went to them for the money things might change but as the bank is not the looser they don't care.

Edited February 17, 2013 by JAS21

[el jefe]

This is not an issue regarding Thai merchants or banks or a Visa issue. It's the difference between DEBIT cards and CREDIT cards.

Most people don't understand the different risks associated with each.

Partly but not totally.

Thai proper credit cards also have a very bad rep regarding customer protection....

The discussion here is that the OP's friend lost money on his debit card, not his credit card. Half the posts here are going on about signatures. Bizarre.

[monty]

This is not an issue regarding Thai merchants or banks or a Visa issue. It's the difference between DEBIT cards and CREDIT cards.

Most people don't understand the different risks associated with each.

Partly but not totally.

Thai proper credit cards also have a very bad rep regarding customer protection....

The discussion here is that the OP's friend lost money on his debit card, not his credit card. Half the posts here are going on about signatures. Bizarre.

Not bizarre at all.

Most Thai debit cards are under the visa electron system or the mastercard equivalent.

Meaning they can be used online, and also can be used in shops where they have the electronic card machines.

Those machines print out a slip which has to be signed by the card holder...

[davejones]

I'm with Bangkok Bank. I have two savings accounts. One that I can only withdraw/transfer money from to my 'other' account by going into the bank with my bankbook' The 'other' account I don't ever keep much more than 50K Baht in. It has one of these ATM cards that you can only use in a BB m/c and it cannot be used to pay for goods.

I've seen the cashier at the shop ... they don't ever look at the signature!!!!!!!!! OK not having a credit card you miss out on a few offers and sometimes I have to get someone else to pay by their credit card... some hotel bookings.

But as someone said there are plenty of ATM m/cs about ... just needs a little planning.

In a way you can't blame the bank .. the shop which accepted the card is the one to blame. If the bank went to them for the money things might change but as the bank is not the looser they don't care.

So you won't take the risk of using a credit card, but you expect your friends to? Glad you're not my friend.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Your friend can always contact Visa direct and they will make bank do the work properly

No... Visa won't do anything, in all likelihood.

Fact is, in Thailand, all the Thai banks pretty much have the same policy: the cardholder is responsible for all charges incurred against their card -- up to their account balance and/or designated Point of Sale limit -- until after they have officially reported the card lost/stolen to the bank.

In the U.S., there are federal consumer protection laws that very substantially limit cardholders' liability for fraudulent purchases against credit cards and debit cards, so long as they report to the bank within a short time after discovering the theft. As long as the cardholder does that, it doesn't much matter how much fraud has occurred. The cardholder's loss, if any, will be very minimal.

In the U.S., VISA in particular advertises its "no fraud liability' guarantee, but in reality, their guarantee is little more than what they're required to do by federal law. However, that VISA protection program only applies in the U.S. and any other countries that might have similar laws. It doesn't apply at large internationally, and VISA's guarantee absolutely doesn't apply for any Thai bank issued card. (It would, however, apply for a U.S. bank issued card that is used in Thailand and becomes the subject of fraud here, such as when someone is traveling or on vacation).

In Thailand, for all intents and purposes, there are no consumer protection laws relating to banking or bank card fraud.

That's one reason, I'm comfortable to use no foreign currency fee U.S. credit and debit cards here... But I'd NEVER take out a Thai credit card or use a Thai debit card at any store for POS purchases.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's the best ThaiVisa thread on this subject that gets into more details than you could ever want to know...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is not an issue regarding Thai merchants or banks or a Visa issue. It's the difference between DEBIT cards and CREDIT cards.

Most people don't understand the different risks associated with each.

Not quite sure what point you're trying to make here...

In Thailand, a thief can make fraudulent purchase with either a Thai bank credit card or debit card using their signature only, and the card owner will be held responsible unless he/she has notified the bank before the fraud occurs...

Merchants rarely bother to look either at the legitimacy of a purchase signature or ask for any secondary photo ID. And why should they, since the bank is most probably going to hold the cardholders responsible for paying for the fraud, not the merchant for contributing to it.

In Thailand, there are effectively no legal fraud protections for holders of either credit or debit cards. The one difference might be credit limits, which probably tend to be higher for credit cards, generally speaking, meaning a cardholder has even greater exposure to fraud.

Edited February 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[renrut salohcin]

A lot to do with the merchants simply not checking signatures of cards/slips, combined with the banks refusing to punish the merchants (i.e. not paying the merchant if signature doesn't match).

It's probably just as difficult for a Thai to distinguish between foreign signatures as it would be for a foreigner to decide if a Thai signature matches

Doesn't matter whether the signature is in Thai or English or any other language, all that needs to be done is to make sure the signatures are identical, the only ability needed to do that is to be able to see. Even if it cannot be deciphered its easy to see whether signatures match.

[meatboy]

if a bank clerk makes a mistake they have to pay the bank,if the bank makes a mistake eg.short changed or atms.not giving you the right amount you have to pay.for this privilege you pay a fee.

[kennedy]

I used to print " See ID" on the back of my credit cards where the signature goes. Worked great until I tried to use them in Thailand. They thought "See ID" was my Signature.

[bbradsby]

I used to print " See ID" on the back of my credit cards where the signature goes. Worked great until I tried to use them in Thailand. They thought "See ID" was my Signature.

thought i was the only one this happened to inLoS. for me, it was fun writing "Ask for ID" on the purchase receipt in Tesco using my foreign credit card. Thai banks won't let you write this phrase in lieu of your signature on the card. As they have no risk exposure, and evidently no scruples, they have no incentive to change anything at all.

Edited February 18, 2013 by bbradsby

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

for me, it was fun writing "Ask for ID" on the purchase receipt in Tesco using my foreign credit card

Do you mean you wrote "Ask for ID" on the credit card purchase slip...instead of your actual signature???

If so, what did the Tesco clerk do and what happened with your purchase???

Edited February 18, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[bbradsby]

for me, it was fun writing "Ask for ID" on the purchase receipt in Tesco using my foreign credit card

Do you mean you wrote "Ask for ID" on the credit card purchase slip...instead of your actual signature???

If so, what did the Tesco clerk do and what happened with your purchase???

laughed & cried at same time - multiple purchases went thru w/o a hitch.

Edited February 18, 2013 by bbradsby

[JAS21]

I'm with Bangkok Bank. I have two savings accounts. One that I can only withdraw/transfer money from to my 'other' account by going into the bank with my bankbook' The 'other' account I don't ever keep much more than 50K Baht in. It has one of these ATM cards that you can only use in a BB m/c and it cannot be used to pay for goods.

I've seen the cashier at the shop ... they don't ever look at the signature!!!!!!!!! OK not having a credit card you miss out on a few offers and sometimes I have to get someone else to pay by their credit card... some hotel bookings.

But as someone said there are plenty of ATM m/cs about ... just needs a little planning.

In a way you can't blame the bank .. the shop which accepted the card is the one to blame. If the bank went to them for the money things might change but as the bank is not the looser they don't care.

So you won't take the risk of using a credit card, but you expect your friends to? Glad you're not my friend.

I guess that english is not your first language ... I said hotel bookings!!! ... My friends are only too pleased to do the booking for me as they get the points. Actually if I'm going to make a reasonable size purchase my friends are only too pleased to come and use their card ... for the points ... and I give them cash..................

Edited February 18, 2013 by JAS21

[banK]

I have an account with Kasikorn and requested them to lower the amount that the debit card would enable a purchase in a shop to ZERO.

This effectively make the card an exclusive ATM card.

Problem solved.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

for me, it was fun writing "Ask for ID" on the purchase receipt in Tesco using my foreign credit card

Do you mean you wrote "Ask for ID" on the credit card purchase slip...instead of your actual signature???

If so, what did the Tesco clerk do and what happened with your purchase???

laughed & cried at same time - multiple purchases went thru w/o a hitch.

Yikes! Unfortunately, that ought to tell anyone here everything they need to know about the Thai banking system.