Time Share Touts

[eezergood]

Quote eezergood: “Perhaps you could go through the process & report back what you found/heard.....

This is not being sarcastic, but from a 'pros' point of view type the report could be very interesting”.

Whilst that sounds like a good suggestion, I don't want to fall foul of any members who wish to support "timeshare etc" selling or for anything to get too personal, as I have found it can do in the past.

However I will give you a few pointers and have tried to keep it short, however very difficult to do in reality.

First of all it should be noted that in many countries some "direct selling" methods are against the law. Why, simply because there is a need to protect the consumer, and a few from the UK and USA are as follows: -

-- The salesperson takes you to a long salespresentation where you are put under pressure to sign a contract before leaving

-- Incorporating lottery-like chance elements in the sale and distribution of merchandise to the general public.

-- The seller making the initial approach (unexpectedly) often personally, either face to face or over the telephone.

-- The seller only offering a limited range of products, and

-- Salespeople making use of direct selling techniques and strategies which take psychological advantage of the selling environment (environment where the consumer cannot easily walk away without buying something first) to pressure the consumer.

So by law, the consumer has certain rights and the selling techniques used must be lawful, which of course have no meaning in this country, which is why such companies flourish.

Another point to consider is that if the selling of "timeshare/fractional ownership/holiday clubs" was ethical, then why not advertise that if anyone is interested in such a product, then contact XZY company. However you will see no such advertisements here (as a rule) and there is a reason for it.

Without getting too deep into the psychology of selling, or the frailties of human nature, it is well documented that there are those people who are extremely easy to sell to at one end of the scale, and at the other end those who are extremely difficult and who will not buy unless they have carefully researched, planned, researched again and finally determined it is what they need. If you add to the mix those people who are intimidated by stand-over tactics and will sign anything because of fear, and those people who are impulse purchasers who really are after the thrill of the purchase and usually repent at leisure, then you have a whole range of potential customers who are the targets.

The reason that the OPCs (Outside People Chasers, as they are called) approach everyone with the scratchie ruse is to basically hide what they are selling, and even if questions are asked they are usually very evasive about what the end result is. In addition they prey on human frailties because "everyone wants something for nothing" or words to that effect.

Once the "prospects" are in the presentation/premises inspection/sales pitch, then the hope is that they will have caught in their net many of the unsuspecting folk who may well sign up for something because of their frailties, as outlined a couple of paragraphs ago i.e. impulse purchasers, the meek and timid who cannot say no, those who are fearful of not signing and the plain scared. Not to mention those who have had a few drinks and are enjoying their holiday and think that this seems like a good scheme, without really thinking it through, and usually regret their decision soon after.

So by operating this way the companies pull in more "suspects" (anyone out there with a Visa/Mastercard card) which they turn into "prospects" (usually defined as those who turn up for the presentation) and then put the hard sell on them to close a deal. By using this methodology they will have snared just a few (if any) folk who may be interested in the product, and a whole load more who may not know what they are in for, but are fair game for a signature.

There are many tactics used in the sales process, a couple of the more common ones being the "good cop, bad cop" scenario, whereby one seems to be the hard sell character, whereas the other seems to be on the customer’s side and tries to befriend them by openly challenging the original seller on some points, however at the end of the day the signature is all that matters. Another one is where the seller seems genuine and tries to get to know customer and lets them know a little about his background and how good a guy he is, and when it comes down to the sale, some people will sign because they have made a friend and trust them, or do not want to upset their new-found friend (who may well have sealed the deal over dinner/drinks later, after a preliminary "deal" has been signed). Many, many other techniques are used, including reverse psychology and aspects of Neuro Linguistic Programming.

Just to end, in many countries the selling of real estate or associated products, or indeed products which require a substantial investment, require the seller to disclose the commission they are paid for the sale and their association with the company, however not in the "timeshare game" which makes up its own rules to a certain extent.

And just for good measure in any such deal in many countries, where a contract is signed, the consumer has the right to what is known as a "cooling off period" whereby they can change their mind and get their money back/unwind the contract at no cost or pressure to themselves. I doubt it would be easy in this case.

Thanks for that info, was genuinly interesting - although I do wish I had the time or inclination to sit through this BS, I would liek to see for myself what they get up to. Also problematic as one of the head touts lives in my condo block

[SeaVisionBurma]

Comment written in Thai removed from a post above. Please stick to English language when posting here, thanks.

[SeanPhuket]

The talk and examples of what scamming is reminds me of many years ago when I worked in the local dive industry here.

The usual suspect agents from Kata, Karon and Patong areas blowing up to customers, to get them to buy the trip, about manta's, whale sharks and world class diving...

As they and any local diver will know; there are few manta's, less whale sharks and little world class diving here (which is a pity of course as it was a wonderful career, even if the customers were expecting schools of mating whale sharks LOL)

Their sales pitches should have been the opposite no? So is that scamming as well?

[itsala]

Quote eezergood: “Perhaps you could go through the process & report back what you found/heard.....

This is not being sarcastic, but from a 'pros' point of view type the report could be very interesting”.

Whilst that sounds like a good suggestion, I don't want to fall foul of any members who wish to support "timeshare etc" selling or for anything to get too personal, as I have found it can do in the past.

However I will give you a few pointers and have tried to keep it short, however very difficult to do in reality.

First of all it should be noted that in many countries some "direct selling" methods are against the law. Why, simply because there is a need to protect the consumer, and a few from the UK and USA are as follows: -

-- The salesperson takes you to a long salespresentation where you are put under pressure to sign a contract before leaving

-- Incorporating lottery-like chance elements in the sale and distribution of merchandise to the general public.

-- The seller making the initial approach (unexpectedly) often personally, either face to face or over the telephone.

-- The seller only offering a limited range of products, and

-- Salespeople making use of direct selling techniques and strategies which take psychological advantage of the selling environment (environment where the consumer cannot easily walk away without buying something first) to pressure the consumer.

So by law, the consumer has certain rights and the selling techniques used must be lawful, which of course have no meaning in this country, which is why such companies flourish.

Another point to consider is that if the selling of "timeshare/fractional ownership/holiday clubs" was ethical, then why not advertise that if anyone is interested in such a product, then contact XZY company. However you will see no such advertisements here (as a rule) and there is a reason for it.

Without getting too deep into the psychology of selling, or the frailties of human nature, it is well documented that there are those people who are extremely easy to sell to at one end of the scale, and at the other end those who are extremely difficult and who will not buy unless they have carefully researched, planned, researched again and finally determined it is what they need. If you add to the mix those people who are intimidated by stand-over tactics and will sign anything because of fear, and those people who are impulse purchasers who really are after the thrill of the purchase and usually repent at leisure, then you have a whole range of potential customers who are the targets.

The reason that the OPCs (Outside People Chasers, as they are called) approach everyone with the scratchie ruse is to basically hide what they are selling, and even if questions are asked they are usually very evasive about what the end result is. In addition they prey on human frailties because "everyone wants something for nothing" or words to that effect.

Once the "prospects" are in the presentation/premises inspection/sales pitch, then the hope is that they will have caught in their net many of the unsuspecting folk who may well sign up for something because of their frailties, as outlined a couple of paragraphs ago i.e. impulse purchasers, the meek and timid who cannot say no, those who are fearful of not signing and the plain scared. Not to mention those who have had a few drinks and are enjoying their holiday and think that this seems like a good scheme, without really thinking it through, and usually regret their decision soon after.

So by operating this way the companies pull in more "suspects" (anyone out there with a Visa/Mastercard card) which they turn into "prospects" (usually defined as those who turn up for the presentation) and then put the hard sell on them to close a deal. By using this methodology they will have snared just a few (if any) folk who may be interested in the product, and a whole load more who may not know what they are in for, but are fair game for a signature.

There are many tactics used in the sales process, a couple of the more common ones being the "good cop, bad cop" scenario, whereby one seems to be the hard sell character, whereas the other seems to be on the customer’s side and tries to befriend them by openly challenging the original seller on some points, however at the end of the day the signature is all that matters. Another one is where the seller seems genuine and tries to get to know customer and lets them know a little about his background and how good a guy he is, and when it comes down to the sale, some people will sign because they have made a friend and trust them, or do not want to upset their new-found friend (who may well have sealed the deal over dinner/drinks later, after a preliminary "deal" has been signed). Many, many other techniques are used, including reverse psychology and aspects of Neuro Linguistic Programming.

Just to end, in many countries the selling of real estate or associated products, or indeed products which require a substantial investment, require the seller to disclose the commission they are paid for the sale and their association with the company, however not in the "timeshare game" which makes up its own rules to a certain extent.

And just for good measure in any such deal in many countries, where a contract is signed, the consumer has the right to what is known as a "cooling off period" whereby they can change their mind and get their money back/unwind the contract at no cost or pressure to themselves. I doubt it would be easy in this case.

GREED.

That's why they use scratch cards, as it appeals to the basic human instinct of something for free. By turning up the prospect demonstrates a predisposition to a "deal". Then they are offered unrealistic savings on future holidays, they buy out of greed, same as the reason they came in. The major players do the same, Marriott, Wyndham, Disney, Club Med. all though they offer a hard premium, but on the same premise of greed. Caveat Emptor.

[FritsSikkink]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

[dogpoo]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

If you are not interested in buying time share what else would you say other than "no thank you" or "no thank you I am not interested" Or "can I see your work permit" They certainly do not want to pass the time of day talking to you about the weather or the bad exchange rate!! Edited March 3, 2013 by dogpoo

[grumpyoldman]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

Because that would be polite? Maybe look past the "salesman" part and see human being?

[stevenl]

The talk and examples of what scamming is reminds me of many years ago when I worked in the local dive industry here.

The usual suspect agents from Kata, Karon and Patong areas blowing up to customers, to get them to buy the trip, about manta's, whale sharks and world class diving...

As they and any local diver will know; there are few manta's, less whale sharks and little world class diving here (which is a pity of course as it was a wonderful career, even if the customers were expecting schools of mating whale sharks LOL)

Their sales pitches should have been the opposite no? So is that scamming as well?

I would say on the edge between grossly exaggeration and scamming.

[stevenl]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

If you are not interested in buying time share what else would you say other than "no thank you" or "no thank you I am not interested" Or "can I see your work permit" They certainly do not want to pass the time of day talking to you about the weather or the bad exchange rate!!

Problem is one does not know it is timeshare until after the contract has been signed. How to say no to something you don't know what it is?

[petercallen]

Whe we were in Bali recently i was approach by a young lady claiming she was a student

doing a survey on tourism, its natural to want to help people like this

In the afternoon of the same day a time share company called me at our hotel claiming

i had given my details to one of there representatives and tried the highe pressure

sales technique on me, i told them to fck off i had not talked to anyone from there company

and was not interested in time share, the same b/s is pulled by time share companies in most holiday dastinations

[grumpyoldman]

Whe we were in Bali recently i was approach by a young lady claiming she was a student

doing a survey on tourism, its natural to want to help people like this

In the afternoon of the same day a time share company called me at our hotel claiming

i had given my details to one of there representatives and tried the highe pressure

sales technique on me, i told them to fck off i had not talked to anyone from there company

and was not interested in time share, the same b/s is pulled by time share companies in most holiday dastinations

They have that one in Bangkok too PC, right in front of some new condos Sukumvit 15 or so.

[IrishIvan]

Whe we were in Bali recently i was approach by a young lady claiming she was a studentdoing a survey on tourism, its natural to want to help people like thisIn the afternoon of the same day a time share company called me at our hotel claimingi had given my details to one of there representatives and tried the highe pressuresales technique on me, i told them to fck off i had not talked to anyone from there companyand was not interested in time share, the same b/s is pulled by time share companies in most holiday dastinations

I thinkin 99.9 % of cases if someone approaches you in Thailand its not out of thr goodness of their hearts. Whether farang or Thai they only want your money. Remember this LOS land of satang

[grumpyoldman]

Whe we were in Bali recently i was approach by a young lady claiming she was a studentdoing a survey on tourism, its natural to want to help people like thisIn the afternoon of the same day a time share company called me at our hotel claimingi had given my details to one of there representatives and tried the highe pressuresales technique on me, i told them to fck off i had not talked to anyone from there companyand was not interested in time share, the same b/s is pulled by time share companies in most holiday dastinations

I thinkin 99.9 % of cases if someone approaches you in Thailand its not out of thr goodness of their hearts. Whether farang or Thai they only want your money. Remember this LOS land of satang

Well Dolph, am not going to agree. Yesterday a farang couple on a motorbike stopped me and asked directions to a nice beach, so your final conclusion of people only wanting money is wrong. Not sure why I feed your troll posts, but anyway, there's a fact for you.

[xylophone]

Quote itsala: GREED.

That's why they use scratch cards, as it appeals to the basic human instinct of something for free. By turning up the prospect demonstrates a predisposition to a "deal". Then they are offered unrealistic savings on future holidays, they buy out of greed, same as the reason they came in. The major players do the same, Marriott, Wyndham, Disney, Club Med. all though they offer a hard premium, but on the same premise of greed. Caveat Emptor.

Can't say that I concur with this, as greed and wanting to make savings are two entirely different things. Greed being, "the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort". I can't see that supposedly having "won" a prize in a "draw" and turning up to collect it can be seen as greed.

Furthermore, the term "caveat emptor" has very little meaning in today's world and today the emphasis is now upon the seller. And anyway it was not designed to shield sellers who engage in fraud or bad faith dealing by making false or misleading representations, and today the seller is held to a higher standard of disclosure than "buyer beware".

The consumer needs to be protected from sellers who engage in shonky practices and you will see from my post that there are laws in force In many countries which dictate exactly how "things" should be sold, and the practices in place here clearly violate some of them.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Ridiculous troll post removed - holiday awarded.

[dantilley]

I thinkin 99.9 % of cases if someone approaches you in Thailand its not out of thr goodness of their hearts. Whether farang or Thai they only want your money.

Absolute rubbish. Can't remember the last time I was approached by someone who was only after my money.

[Pakaty]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

Because that would be polite? Maybe look past the "salesman" part and see human being?

I don't thik so. Touts are annoying creatures that gave up thier humanity to be the rude mutants they chose to be. They do not deserve "polite" when the only thing they want is to part you with your money. And they are not "polite" in thier attempts to do so.

[FritsSikkink]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

Because that would be polite? Maybe look past the "salesman" part and see human being?

They are spamming me with their salespitch when i go for a walk. When i enter their office they can do so, but when a am walking outside it not polite

[SeaVisionBurma]

Post containing profanity removed

[Guest]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

Because that would be polite? Maybe look past the "salesman" part and see human being?

And what do we see? The human being who is willing to do anything to scam money out of people who lack the knowledge of what is sold to them.

I say no. This kind of sales people should be stopped. The people who still have some morals should arise against people who will sell broken dreams to people who are not strong enough to say no.

[eezergood]

BAck out en masse yesterday -

[petercallen]

BAck out en masse yesterday -

Probably paying extra tea money

[eezergood]

BAck out en masse yesterday -

Probably paying extra tea money

Well they stand right next to the "traffic" copper

[GiantFan]

Walking down RUT Road in Patong many years back and a guy rolled up on a MB with his Thai GF and said "Do you speak English". I thought he was going to ask for directions and said Yes. Started the touting speech and said I wasn't interested. A few blocks down, he hit me again. I guess we all look the same. Finally down by the 2 Black Sheep (yes it goes back this far), he comes up to me again and before he speaks I say that I do speak English and that I already own a villa!

The funny thing was that he still asked me if I was interested in a timeshare.

Haven't seen this guy around in many years. Maybe he is gone or promoted to inside tout.

[Radar501]

"-- Incorporating lottery-like chance elements in the sale and distribution of merchandise to the general public."

The chances of winning first prize on those scratchie cards seems to be about one in one.

And I just love the look of surprise and delight on the tout's face when he checks your card and discovers you have won the big prize.

Even Steven Segal would be embarressed by the poor acting.

[LivinginKata]

"-- Incorporating lottery-like chance elements in the sale and distribution of merchandise to the general public."

The chances of winning first prize on those scratchie cards seems to be about one in one.

And I just love the look of surprise and delight on the tout's face when he checks your card and discovers you have won the big prize.

Even Steven Segal would be embarressed by the poor acting.

I have to confess that every time i see the scratch card being offered (i.e. pushed) I just have to stop and watch the antics of the OPC jumping about offering congratulations and delight at their "win". Never fails to amuse me.

[Rickster]

I don't condone the scam tactic approach but having said that i don't have a ounce of sympathy if people are so stupid and be gullible enough to take the bait. Anyone going to a foreign country, especially one with a bad reputation as Thailand has, and with most people either having a pc or access to one, a little research wouldn't go amiss.....

[Ministry of Som Tam]

I CAN'T believe anyone falls for this, especially Brits. We had endless stories, articles & TV reports regarding this same thing in the 80's from Spain. Here we are 20 yrs, or so, later the same scam, probably the same people (I know for a fact 2 of them ARE from the Cosat del ripoff) and they are still collecting people!

The funny part is that these idiots telling people it's timeshare etc.don't realise that all these resorts,just like on the Costa del Crime,Tenerife and other places all have security teams working for them!

Big,steroided-up monsters who will at some point rip off their faces quite happily for blowing out there prospective clients and dinner tickets!They won't be so smug boasting about it on here once that happens!

[Ministry of Som Tam]

Why is the OP knocking a guy for trying to make a living?

Why are people so arrogant they can't just say to the tout "no thank you, not interested" and move on?

Over it and out.

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

Because that would be polite? Maybe look past the "salesman" part and see human being?

And what do we see? The human being who is willing to do anything to scam money out of people who lack the knowledge of what is sold to them.

I say no. This kind of sales people should be stopped. The people who still have some morals should arise against people who will sell broken dreams to people who are not strong enough to say no.

Where are the broken dreams,have you ever looked round your average timeshare resort like Absolute,they are beautiful?Do you know about the exchange systems like RCI,whereby they can exchange,bank or even rent out their weeks if they like?

It's actually a very good system and there are many people that swear by them,the 5 star hotels in the United States house many a timeshare operation!

I can guarantee that they stay in far more luxurious surroundings than 99% of your average package tourist,I really don't care whether you slag it down or or but at least be in possesion of a tiny fraction of the facts before you comment,otherwise you just make yourself look like a fool!

[robblok]

Why should i say "no thank you, not interested" to every salesman who starts talking to me while i walk past them.

Because that would be polite? Maybe look past the "salesman" part and see human being?

And what do we see? The human being who is willing to do anything to scam money out of people who lack the knowledge of what is sold to them.

I say no. This kind of sales people should be stopped. The people who still have some morals should arise against people who will sell broken dreams to people who are not strong enough to say no.

Where are the broken dreams,have you ever looked round your average timeshare resort like Absolute,they are beautiful?Do you know about the exchange systems like RCI,whereby they can exchange,bank or even rent out their weeks if they like?

It's actually a very good system and there are many people that swear by them,the 5 star hotels in the United States house many a timeshare operation!

I can guarantee that they stay in far more luxurious surroundings than 99% of your average package tourist,I really don't care whether you slag it down or or but at least be in possesion of a tiny fraction of the facts before you comment,otherwise you just make yourself look like a fool!

Yes because its all above board and good nobody ever heard anything negative about this.

I am sure there might just might be a few good ones but in general not else it would not need this agressive and misleading style of sale. But hey just believe what you want and defend those rip off artist you fit righ in.