Adopting Wife's Sisters Unwanted Baby!

[krabicriminal]

Hi there, a friend of mine is considering this, I really don't think he has given it proper consideration. Here is his story, he is 25 years old, lives just outside BKK and teaches English at a good school with a decent salary. married his thai gf whom he met at work, They have been together 3-4 years and are happy. They have not been trying for a baby. It turns out his wifes younger sister of 16 had a baby, gave it to an orphanage and did a runner because she 'had no time for friends.' (sounds lovely doesn't she?) So, my mate and his wife have been visiting the baby (11 months old) and grown affectionate towards it. Now his wife is pushing for adoption, and he seems to like the idea. Now he won't listen to me when I state the obvious (in my eyes anyway). I think her poor family think she and the falang should take the baby because they can afford/provide for it. He is adamant that her family have nothing to do with it, and he and his wife just want to adopt the baby... Regardless of the family issue, what do you guys make of this?

Edited March 7, 2013 by krabicriminal

[breadbin]

Sad story.

Why don't they just leave the baby with the family and provide funds for him/her until such time everyone has agreed the best way forward.

It's a massive thing to do up adopt and its not just for Christmas.

I hope your mate is not just doing it to keep his wife happy.

If they do adopt I applaud them, it would be a wonderful thing to do.

Good luck

[billd766]

I think that after 11 months of visiting the baby your friend and his wife do understand what it is about and that both of them want to adopt the baby.

He and his wife are adamant that the family are not pushing either of them and to me, no it is not obvious what her poor family nor you think.

If it were my friend in this position I would be 100% behind him and his wife and I admire him for doing so.

[krabicriminal]

The baby is eleven months old but has only been living in the orphanage for the past month or so. I am supportive if that's what he wants to do but I am also concerned about him as a friend. Granted he earns enough to take care of himself and wife, but adopting another human being at 25 with little savings and only his income to support them. What if he were to lose his job? Ect ect. I'm just concerned is all. I hope it works out for them.

[scorecard]

I think that after 11 months of visiting the baby your friend and his wife do understand what it is about and that both of them want to adopt the baby.

He and his wife are adamant that the family are not pushing either of them and to me, no it is not obvious what her poor family nor you think.

If it were my friend in this position I would be 100% behind him and his wife and I admire him for doing so.

25 is, for many people very young to make decisions like this, but you seem to be saying that they have a good stable relationship, that's a big plus.

I hope they have considered the longer-term, e.g. does the farang intend to stay in Thailand forever? Would the new mother consider moving to the home country of the farang? Why these questions? The long term welfare for the child more than anything!

The OP mentions finances. Yes it does cost money to raise a child, but there is also a challenge to be realistic about not over buying in terms of clothes, toys, etc.

On the other hand if everybody looked very seriously at whether they can afford kids with no financial risks whatever then the birth rate would be very small.

Will the birth mother and her parents if needed sign the appropriate documents to make it fully legal, and allow the child to have a foreign family name (if that's the plan)?

Has anybody explored whether the child can, after full adoption, claim a passport from the country of the new father? Not a critical point right now, but worth some investigation.

I sincerely hope it's all go and all concerned reap benefits - the child and the new mother and father. I deeply admire people who have concern for children.

Good luck.

[HeavyDrinker]

I'd say no for the simple reason that your 'friend' doesn't have a career and will probably be refused anyway.

Most 'teachers' only stay here for a few years, get laid, get wed. get bored, go home....

It's a big 'NO' from me.

[candypants]

i personally commend him -- if it is really what he wants.

there are as many reasons not to do it as there are rewards for making it happen.

as long as the legal status is clear and the mother cant weasel her way back into the picture and weak havoc, why not?

Edited March 7, 2013 by candypants

[Neeranam]

I'd say no for the simple reason that your 'friend' doesn't have a career and will probably be refused anyway.

Most 'teachers' only stay here for a few years, get laid, get wed. get bored, go home....

It's a big 'NO' from me.

Seems like you have a big resentment about teachers - you're continually slagging them off.

I'd also say no to a friend doing the same as personally, I couldn't imagine being stuck with a kid at 25, especially another person's.

[scorecard]

I'd say no for the simple reason that your 'friend' doesn't have a career and will probably be refused anyway.

Most 'teachers' only stay here for a few years, get laid, get wed. get bored, go home....

It's a big 'NO' from me.

So many assumptions on your part, all automatically negative.

You have no informaton whatever to assume the young man concerned here has no career. There are plenty of farang English teachers who have built careers here in Thailand. I have one close friend who has, through his hard work and obvious credibility risen up the ranks to be an advisor to a (thai govt.) regional education inspector. His advice is folllowed closely.

And another who discovered that he loved teaching kids and was good at it. He completed some further education and got qualified to teach almost all subjects at Primary level. Today he's the director of Primary at a large experimental school attached to a Thai university.

Maybe this is all a big NO for you and your entitled to your opinion, but luckily others have different views and values.

Edited March 7, 2013 by scorecard

[HeijoshinCool]

MYOB

[HeavyDrinker]

I'd say no for the simple reason that your 'friend' doesn't have a career and will probably be refused anyway.

Most 'teachers' only stay here for a few years, get laid, get wed. get bored, go home....

It's a big 'NO' from me.

So many assumptions on your part, all automatically negative.

You have no informaton whatever to assume the young man concerned here has no career. There are plenty of farang English teachers who have built careers here in Thailand. I have one close friend who has, through his hard work and obvious credibility risen up the ranks to be an advisor to a (thai govt.) regional education inspector. His advice is folllowed closely.

Maybe this is all a big NO for you, but luckily others have different views and values.

Indeed.

Well go ask these 'others' then.

I'd guess most of them are 3 year 'expats' here for a shag, to try and 'break it big' and when it don't happen they'll be away.

I have 20 years of experience here to tell you for certain that only about 5% of 'teachers' here make a 'career' out of it. Would you risk a child's life on those stats?

This a post on a forum asking for opinion, well there's mine.

Edited March 7, 2013 by HeavyDrinker

[rookball]

depends on your friend really. anyone who loves their child will be willing to commit and make sacrifices, if this is the case, why not?

im guessing the guy in mention isnt the "stereotype" kind of tefl teacher since he is in a good school and has been here over 3 years and had a relatively long relationship. but again, i dont have much exposure to stuff like these

[NancyL]

I think the teacher and his wife are trying to do the best thing and have good intentions. However, (we're I the "grandmother", i.e. teacher's mother), I suggest that it only be done if it's a 100% legal adoption, with the birth mother having no legal rights or recourse to claim the child. This isn't like taking care of someone's dog while they're on vacation.

It would be much better if the sister wasn't in the picture at all, but unfortunately she will always be part of the child's life because she is the sister of the "real" mother -- i.e. the woman who will raise the child. To some extent, it would almost be better if this couple could return to his home country, with the child, to get the birth mother out of the child's life as much as possible.

But it sounds like the teacher and his wife have pretty much made up their minds -- now all that a friend can do is suggest they take steps to minimize any future heartache.

[rct99q]

Lots of questions and unfortunately not many answers that may help (in general, not all about this one thread). My wife and I looked after a neighbors son while she went off to work and trying to find a family member who would look after the little boy.

Let me tell you even after my wife promised not to get too emotionally attached it is impossible. It was not even a direct family members child and still one of the hardest things we have had to do as a a married couple was recover from the feeling of loss after a family member was found to raise the child.

At times like these emotions run high. Be very careful with your advice to your friend. Even though they may ask for opinions etc they will have already made a decision I am sure of that. But, it needs to be done correctly and by the letter of the law. I have seen a few instances of family members coming back after a child has been cared for by others. They need to do a legal adoption, are the couple legally married? or just the ceremony part of it.

Very few countries grant citizenship automatically to children born here in Thailand to foreign parents let alone an adopted child. Benefits, stable work (even it is low paying it needs to be stable), family commitment as they will be needed at times to help out. etc, etc, etc,....

I have one son and a daughter on the way and raising children here is not MORE difficult than elsewhere but.....not the same.

good luck!

[Payboy]

Check if that younger sister even exists. The baby could be the GFs and probably has a "brother" lurking in the shadows.

[SlyAnimal]

They need to do a legal adoption, are the couple legally married? or just the ceremony part of it.

Very few countries grant citizenship automatically to children born here in Thailand to foreign parents let alone an adopted child.

/agree

Make sure it's done legally, dot their 'I's and cross their 'T's.

As for whether it's the right thing to do.....

From the baby's perspective and their future wellbeing, they're likely going to be better off with a Farang/Thai couple than your average joe bloggs Thai couple. Particularly as both are working, and teachers too, not to mention that they'd then have the opportunity to regularly see their birth family, which would likely answer a lot of the questions they might otherwise have while growing up.

From your friend's perspective.... rationally speaking, it's probably not a good idea, but who else is there? They're likely planning on having kids anyway, and this would save a lot of hassle, even if the baby isn't really theirs.

If it was me, and if the same situation happened with my fiance's family.... I would seriously consider it as an option.... I would know that it'd be a bad idea, I would know that it'd more likely disadvantage me compared to having my own children, and I'd likely never feel as much attachment to them as my own children..... however I'd seriously consider it, because it's better for the child (And the rest of their family too) to be raised around their real family, than in an orphanage or a house of strangers.

[swissie]

A couple of things to be mentioned. If this couple will someday have children of their own, will the adopted child not automatically take "the back seat."

But mostly: For a Thai-Child to end -up in an orphanage is extremely rare. Plenty of children growing up with the parents of the mother or even the grand-parents! An orphanage situation is only given, if there is absolutely no "family left"= not likely! Or the question would have to be " what is the reason nobody in the family wants to take in this child ???"

Cheers.

[HeavyDrinker]

I can't beleive there are people supporting letting some 3 year chump adopt a kid. He doesn't have a job (teaching is NOT a job) and has no chance of adopting a kid.

[FritsSikkink]

I can't beleive there are people supporting letting some 3 year chump adopt a kid. He doesn't have a job (teaching is NOT a job) and has no chance of adopting a kid.

Maybe you have been drinking to much, teaching is a job (i am not a teacher).

Edited March 7, 2013 by FritsSikkink

[arthurwait]

I can't beleive there are people supporting letting some 3 year chump adopt a kid. He doesn't have a job (teaching is NOT a job) and has no chance of adopting a kid.

Maybe you have been drinking to much, teaching is a job (i am not a teacher).

I'm not a teacher or a 'teacher' either. It's a job as it pays money. Several times what most Thai people earn.

[David48]

First up ... to NancyL above post ... ... the debate is always richer when you enter it.

To Payboy above, congrats on 6,000 posts. I know what you are saying, however, on this one, the OP states that his 'friend' and the lady have been together for 3-4 years and currently married. So, while what you allude to is a possibility ... maybe not in this case.

I've read and re-read the OP, was going to comment yesterday, showed it to MissFarmGirl (Thai) ... she just walked away and said that no comment ... not this topic.

I must agree ... there feels like something wrong, a large part of the story left untold.

Firstly young children sometimes/usually go to the child's grandmother in this situation.

Sure, some do go to Orphanages.

Has anyone reading this visited the Thai Orphanages in Bangkok. I have. Bought the usual goods for them and have made some modest cash donations. Most of them are centred around the relocated PrayaThai Orphanage.

Edited March 7, 2013 by David48

[David48]

^^ Hit post above by mistake.

At the Orphanage ... the younger babies/children and certainly in the age group that the OP speaks about ... you are not allowed near.

Below was the closest visitors are allowed with the younger orphans. Indeed, photos are not allowed, but we snapped this one anyway. No, they aren't prison bars ... just looks that way. The staff were uber friendly from what we saw.

It was explained to us (Thai gf and me) that there was an emotional trauma if there was a bonding between an 'outsider' and an orphan. and that a part of the OP story I don't understand. Yes, it was the 'Aunt' visiting ... but she is still an 'outsider'.

If there is a good outcome from the OP ... do take the time to visit the Orphanage if you can. Ring first and ask what the staff there need (link is in the post above). Toys are not usually asked for. Baby milk powder is. Cash is King ... but everything is documented and a receipt supplied.

Difficult to access though. We took the BTS to the end of the line (JJ Market), then a mini-bus to a point near where they are located, then a local bike for the last bit. Caught the van on the way back to Victory Monument ... have done this a few times this way.

Do take the time to visit ... both you and the orphans will be richer for the contact.

.

[Beetlejuice]

The guy is 25 years old.

Is he officially married to his Thai wife? Meaning has a marriage certificate.

Does he have some substantial savings?

If for whatever reasons he leaves or loses his job in Thailand, does he have other means to support himself and family?

Does his Thai wife own any property and do they own the home and land they live on?

For how long is his employment period contract at the school?

How long does he intend to stay in Thailand?

If he has to return back to his home country, does he already have family sized accommodation there and a job to return to?

Answer these questions and I will let you know whether or not it is a good idea for this couple to adopt a child in Thailand or not.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[wayned]

I think that after 11 months of visiting the baby your friend and his wife do understand what it is about and that both of them want to adopt the baby.

He and his wife are adamant that the family are not pushing either of them and to me, no it is not obvious what her poor family nor you think.

If it were my friend in this position I would be 100% behind him and his wife and I admire him for doing so.

Totally agree!

[scorecard]

They need to do a legal adoption, are the couple legally married? or just the ceremony part of it.

Very few countries grant citizenship automatically to children born here in Thailand to foreign parents let alone an adopted child.

/agree

Make sure it's done legally, dot their 'I's and cross their 'T's.

As for whether it's the right thing to do.....

From the baby's perspective and their future wellbeing, they're likely going to be better off with a Farang/Thai couple than your average joe bloggs Thai couple. Particularly as both are working, and teachers too, not to mention that they'd then have the opportunity to regularly see their birth family, which would likely answer a lot of the questions they might otherwise have while growing up.

From your friend's perspective.... rationally speaking, it's probably not a good idea, but who else is there? They're likely planning on having kids anyway, and this would save a lot of hassle, even if the baby isn't really theirs.

If it was me, and if the same situation happened with my fiance's family.... I would seriously consider it as an option.... I would know that it'd be a bad idea, I would know that it'd more likely disadvantage me compared to having my own children, and I'd likely never feel as much attachment to them as my own children..... however I'd seriously consider it, because it's better for the child (And the rest of their family too) to be raised around their real family, than in an orphanage or a house of strangers.

You are very entitled to your own opinion, but I challenge your comments "I would know that it'd more likely disadvantage me compared to having my own children, and I'd likely never feel as much attachment to them as my own children..... however I'd seriously consider it..."

Why do I challenge your comment? Because I have an adopted Thai son, now in his early thirties and married with two delightful young daughters. He's my son in every possible way and he's also my best friend in life. I couldn't possibly love him more and I have enormous love and caring from him. He's nearly completed his Ph.D. and i'm very proud of him. Yes It's cost me a lot over 30 years for good education etc., and maybe I could have had a more expensive car instead. I'll take my son rather than the expensive car anyday.

By the way, as general comments:

- Having your own children doesn't come with guarantees any more than adopting children.

- Probably 80 - 90% of Thai couples (and probably close to the same in most countries) don't sit down with spreadsheets and calculate whether they can afford to have kids etc., they just get on with having the kids and most get by with the finances.

Edited March 7, 2013 by scorecard

[scorecard]

The guy is 25 years old.

Is he officially married to his Thai wife? Meaning has a marriage certificate.

Does he have some substantial savings?

If for whatever reasons he leaves or loses his job in Thailand, does he have other means to support himself and family?

Does his Thai wife own any property and do they own the home and land they live on?

For how long is his employment period contract at the school?

How long does he intend to stay in Thailand?

If he has to return back to his home country, does he already have family sized accommodation there and a job to return to?

Answer these questions and I will let you know whether or not it is a good idea for this couple to adopt a child in Thailand or not.

Here we go, mr perfect on the job once again.

Many people, with wife and kids, all over the world have time based work contracts, nothing unusual there.

Is it really so critical that he has an exact number of bedrooms etc., available in his home country? No! What rubbish.

How long is he going to stay in Thailand? Who knows answers like this?

Are you saying that people who don't own land should not have kids? I certainly hope not.

Does he have substantial savings? Well that's not your business or mine, and if he's like most 25 yeard olds possibly not, but who knows, and he's found himself squarely in a situation which he didn't plan or personally construct but he wants to do the right thing.

If he's genuine, and there's no reason, from what's been posted to assume otherwise, then he'll proably make a go of it. Good luck to him for wanting to try to be a good citizen and give some love and caring to a baby with little opportunity. I greatly admire him and his wife.

Actually I don't think the young man and his wife really need your decision whether it's a good idea.

Edited March 7, 2013 by scorecard

[I Like Thai]

I can't beleive there are people supporting letting some 3 year chump adopt a kid. He doesn't have a job (teaching is NOT a job) and has no chance of adopting a kid.

The child will be better off with family than he will be in an orphanage

.

[Robby nz]

Seems to me that if they do this then his wife will have a child under 1 yr to look after and will most probably have to stop working.

As the poster said he met her at work I presume she is also teaching so it would mean a loss of one income.

[I Like Thai]

^

It was explained to us (Thai gf and me) that there was an emotional trauma if there was a bonding between an 'outsider' and an orphan. and that a part of the OP story I don't understand. Yes, it was the 'Aunt' visiting ... but she is still an 'outsider'.

If the family gives up it's rights to care for the child. Then they have made themselves the "outsiders"

[saakura]

I'd say no for the simple reason that your 'friend' doesn't have a career and will probably be refused anyway.

Most 'teachers' only stay here for a few years, get laid, get wed. get bored, go home....

It's a big 'NO' from me.

Perhaps adopting the baby will mature him and prevent him from going the wrong way and doing all the above? He is married to a nice girl with a decent job, a baby will bring them closer. Its a big YES from me.